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Other Tiers Orre Colosseum (Now Playable!)
- Thread starter Akiak
- Start date
Orre: NAIC 2025
We had a turn-out of 1 organizer, 7 players, and 1 spectator at NAIC!
Full article: https://orrecolosseum.wordpress.com/2025/06/16/orre-naic-2025/
Open Team Sheets
We had a turn-out of 1 organizer, 7 players, and 1 spectator at NAIC!
Full article: https://orrecolosseum.wordpress.com/2025/06/16/orre-naic-2025/
Open Team Sheets
My team has been eliminated from ADVLTL so I figured I would make a post on my thoughts on this metagame since I've never really talked about Orre at length despite being *around* for quite a few years now. I'll open with the disclaimer that I'm not gonna talk too much about the tour itself. I was really busy for the regular season, I spent every week except week 2 in a different state (or country) and was making safe, rushed teams to load on mobile and click with. That being said I of course had fun and was happy to go positive given the environment I was playing in, both in terms of my location(s) and the strong quality of opponents in the field.
I found a tiermaker that I looked over for a few minutes and arrived at this after giving it some thought. I'll break it down by tier.
Tier 1:
Latios is just the best Pokemon in the format to me pretty simply, and I prefer the Calm Mind + Sub set that I started using a while back in whatever Mt. Battle tournament I played in. You really don't need much more than a fast and powerful Dragon Claw to rip through teams given there's very few viable resists in the tier. I like Substitute because it helps to avoid Paralysis and people putting you in checkmate positions with Explosion.
Metagross and Zapdos stand out almost equally to me but I think Metagross gets my #2 pick because it has the most important quality in this tier which is that it resists Dragon Claw (normal resist is also pretty important to not get owned by CB Tauros, and Clear Body is pretty important to not get nerfed to shit by Intimidate switchins, but I digress). Offensively it does great work with Lum/Persim + Swagger and potentially Agility, not to mention threatening Explosion. Metagross definitely feels like the most essential physical attacker in this meta every time I go to build.
Zapdos, currently the undisputed king of ADV DOU, still stands out excellently here in comparison even amidst the lati twins and boom users. A fast and powerful Thunderbolt + Hidden Power coverage of choice in addition to EQ immunity just makes building pretty simple. After adding a Lati and Metagross you really have to ask yourself why you wouldn't want a Zapdos. I like Sub + HP Grass the most to really maximize the strong Metagross matchup and gain leverage into Swampert, but HP Ice, Thunder Wave, and Light Screen are cool as well (hell I ran Drill Peck in week 5 to combat my Shedinja PTSD...)
Latias rounds out tier 1 to me but I do have it as #4 pretty firmly in my mind. Latias is a utility mon first and foremost, because if you wanted an offensive pick you'd be running the blue eon twin instead. That's not bad, but it often means you're gonna be putting more eggs into one basket, aiding them with a Swagger boost or screens support and a fast Dragon Claw or coverage move to throw in some chip damage. That being said, assuming you don't get crit at a untimely moment, fast screens support and something to enable your physical attackers is great, and there are many mons in the metagame that it can simply click Dragon Claw in front of because you've still got get through a bulky levitating Dragon.
Tier 2:
Snorlax is a special wall that can run Curse to turn itself into a sweeper that patches its below average PhysDef or can just lean into winning trades by running Self-Destruct and threatening kills every turn. I wrestled with putting it in tier 1, but I think the susceptibility to Intimidate, as well as being the most hax-prone mon in the metagame due to its Speed stat, are enough reasons to bring it down to 2. It also does run into some 4MSS, as you really want to run Protect on all sets to be safe from Boom but then miss out on some much appreciated coverage, often Shadow Ball for better output into Latis and the occasional Gengar.
Starmie gets to play above the 110 speed tier which is huge. It chunks the dragons and kills Arcanine with Hydro Pump, gets to click Reflect before CB Tauros can Double-Edge you to a pulp, works as a great revenge killer from the back. Simple and effective mon.
As someone who prefers Latios to Latias, I'm absolutely in love with Arcanine in this tier. If you wanna go for CM Latios sweeps, really the only two guys you need to immediately worry about are Snorlax and Metagross, so it's really nice that there's a Pokemon that can Charm Snorlax to death, one shot Metagross, and still have a free move left to run Helping Hand to further assist in Latios sweeps. It definitely has its bad matchups but I think the utility is so great that it goes above Tauros for me.
Tauros is still super threatening though. CB Tauros has a fast and immediately damage output that basically no one else in the tier has and still gets some utility out of having Intimidate. It can't really pivot like Arcanine can due to its mediocre bulk but it is just very easy to line up kills and trade favorably.
Tier 3:
Raikou is kind of funny because if you look at the mons I ranked ahead of it on paper it has some pretty questionable matchups and not much utility but in reality it's just another example of raw Speed being king in ADV. Either revenge kill a 40% lati or Metagross or set up a CM in the midgame and go for the win from there.
Clefable is the best Follow Me mon which I think was severely underrated the last time I played this metagame and it + Shedinja handed me a pretty bad L in week 4 so I stole it for week 5. Bright Powder redirection is super cringe and probably the worst part of the tier but it's legal and evil so why not utilize it. The attacking moves don't matter too much but it does get Seismic Toss, coverage options, and plenty more utility moves should you want them.
Swampert was one mon I really liked that I never got to bring this tour. In theory nothing kills him which is pretty neat, but if you wanna run Snorlax and Metagross then running Swampert can really drag down your speed tiers if you aren't smartly gameplanning how to get the advantage and I really did not have time to be in the lab like that. Still, great bulk and typing + solid offensive coverage will never be bad, even if it's not a full standout.
I personally don't like Tyranitar too much but I would feel cringe ranking it any lower than 3. Sand Stream enables Registeel which is evil but neat, and also cripples Leftovers setup guys or helps put things in revenge kill range for a Lati or Starmie theoretically. Also has a coveted Normal resist and decent lati/zap matchups so I think all that comes together to rank it here.
I debated putting Marowak 4 but I do think I wanna keep it in 3, there's a lot of mons that it enables through LRod and I think even though most people are over GyaraWak these days there's more to be done with Moltres and Suicune and the powerful EQ is nothing to ignore as well. (Also just briefly from what I recall skimming replays maybe people were sleeping on GyaraWak a little too hard this tour... we'll see if it makes a playoffs appearance)
Tier 4 and 5
Not gonna cover all these guys at length but these are basically the niche mons that I think can be viable and would maybe recommend looking into if you wanna play a more experimental build. Tier 4 has my demons registeel & shedinja + fringe viable gengar + marowak partners, tier 5 are guys I haven't used in ages or ever but I think can be neat, the other two regis in particular seem cool for their ability to wall the specials/physicals respectively, I assume everything in this tier can kinda be implied what their role is.
tl;dr
Latios > Latias
I don't remember a lot of Arcanine being used but I really love that fella
Swagger is less cringe than I expected, Brightpowder and especially Follow Me Brightpowder is Cringe
Dear god I never wanna see Shedinja again
Despite the above two comments I had a lot of fun, I hope I get to play this meta again sometime soon and not like another full year+ from now lol
I found a tiermaker that I looked over for a few minutes and arrived at this after giving it some thought. I'll break it down by tier.
Tier 1:
Latios is just the best Pokemon in the format to me pretty simply, and I prefer the Calm Mind + Sub set that I started using a while back in whatever Mt. Battle tournament I played in. You really don't need much more than a fast and powerful Dragon Claw to rip through teams given there's very few viable resists in the tier. I like Substitute because it helps to avoid Paralysis and people putting you in checkmate positions with Explosion.
Metagross and Zapdos stand out almost equally to me but I think Metagross gets my #2 pick because it has the most important quality in this tier which is that it resists Dragon Claw (normal resist is also pretty important to not get owned by CB Tauros, and Clear Body is pretty important to not get nerfed to shit by Intimidate switchins, but I digress). Offensively it does great work with Lum/Persim + Swagger and potentially Agility, not to mention threatening Explosion. Metagross definitely feels like the most essential physical attacker in this meta every time I go to build.
Zapdos, currently the undisputed king of ADV DOU, still stands out excellently here in comparison even amidst the lati twins and boom users. A fast and powerful Thunderbolt + Hidden Power coverage of choice in addition to EQ immunity just makes building pretty simple. After adding a Lati and Metagross you really have to ask yourself why you wouldn't want a Zapdos. I like Sub + HP Grass the most to really maximize the strong Metagross matchup and gain leverage into Swampert, but HP Ice, Thunder Wave, and Light Screen are cool as well (hell I ran Drill Peck in week 5 to combat my Shedinja PTSD...)
Latias rounds out tier 1 to me but I do have it as #4 pretty firmly in my mind. Latias is a utility mon first and foremost, because if you wanted an offensive pick you'd be running the blue eon twin instead. That's not bad, but it often means you're gonna be putting more eggs into one basket, aiding them with a Swagger boost or screens support and a fast Dragon Claw or coverage move to throw in some chip damage. That being said, assuming you don't get crit at a untimely moment, fast screens support and something to enable your physical attackers is great, and there are many mons in the metagame that it can simply click Dragon Claw in front of because you've still got get through a bulky levitating Dragon.
Tier 2:
Snorlax is a special wall that can run Curse to turn itself into a sweeper that patches its below average PhysDef or can just lean into winning trades by running Self-Destruct and threatening kills every turn. I wrestled with putting it in tier 1, but I think the susceptibility to Intimidate, as well as being the most hax-prone mon in the metagame due to its Speed stat, are enough reasons to bring it down to 2. It also does run into some 4MSS, as you really want to run Protect on all sets to be safe from Boom but then miss out on some much appreciated coverage, often Shadow Ball for better output into Latis and the occasional Gengar.
Starmie gets to play above the 110 speed tier which is huge. It chunks the dragons and kills Arcanine with Hydro Pump, gets to click Reflect before CB Tauros can Double-Edge you to a pulp, works as a great revenge killer from the back. Simple and effective mon.
As someone who prefers Latios to Latias, I'm absolutely in love with Arcanine in this tier. If you wanna go for CM Latios sweeps, really the only two guys you need to immediately worry about are Snorlax and Metagross, so it's really nice that there's a Pokemon that can Charm Snorlax to death, one shot Metagross, and still have a free move left to run Helping Hand to further assist in Latios sweeps. It definitely has its bad matchups but I think the utility is so great that it goes above Tauros for me.
Tauros is still super threatening though. CB Tauros has a fast and immediately damage output that basically no one else in the tier has and still gets some utility out of having Intimidate. It can't really pivot like Arcanine can due to its mediocre bulk but it is just very easy to line up kills and trade favorably.
Tier 3:
Raikou is kind of funny because if you look at the mons I ranked ahead of it on paper it has some pretty questionable matchups and not much utility but in reality it's just another example of raw Speed being king in ADV. Either revenge kill a 40% lati or Metagross or set up a CM in the midgame and go for the win from there.
Clefable is the best Follow Me mon which I think was severely underrated the last time I played this metagame and it + Shedinja handed me a pretty bad L in week 4 so I stole it for week 5. Bright Powder redirection is super cringe and probably the worst part of the tier but it's legal and evil so why not utilize it. The attacking moves don't matter too much but it does get Seismic Toss, coverage options, and plenty more utility moves should you want them.
Swampert was one mon I really liked that I never got to bring this tour. In theory nothing kills him which is pretty neat, but if you wanna run Snorlax and Metagross then running Swampert can really drag down your speed tiers if you aren't smartly gameplanning how to get the advantage and I really did not have time to be in the lab like that. Still, great bulk and typing + solid offensive coverage will never be bad, even if it's not a full standout.
I personally don't like Tyranitar too much but I would feel cringe ranking it any lower than 3. Sand Stream enables Registeel which is evil but neat, and also cripples Leftovers setup guys or helps put things in revenge kill range for a Lati or Starmie theoretically. Also has a coveted Normal resist and decent lati/zap matchups so I think all that comes together to rank it here.
I debated putting Marowak 4 but I do think I wanna keep it in 3, there's a lot of mons that it enables through LRod and I think even though most people are over GyaraWak these days there's more to be done with Moltres and Suicune and the powerful EQ is nothing to ignore as well. (Also just briefly from what I recall skimming replays maybe people were sleeping on GyaraWak a little too hard this tour... we'll see if it makes a playoffs appearance)
Tier 4 and 5
Not gonna cover all these guys at length but these are basically the niche mons that I think can be viable and would maybe recommend looking into if you wanna play a more experimental build. Tier 4 has my demons registeel & shedinja + fringe viable gengar + marowak partners, tier 5 are guys I haven't used in ages or ever but I think can be neat, the other two regis in particular seem cool for their ability to wall the specials/physicals respectively, I assume everything in this tier can kinda be implied what their role is.
tl;dr
Latios > Latias
I don't remember a lot of Arcanine being used but I really love that fella
Swagger is less cringe than I expected, Brightpowder and especially Follow Me Brightpowder is Cringe
Dear god I never wanna see Shedinja again
Despite the above two comments I had a lot of fun, I hope I get to play this meta again sometime soon and not like another full year+ from now lol
ADVLTL Team Dump
Orre Colosseum was recently featured in the first edition of ADV Lower Tier League team tournament. It featured an elite lineup of top Orre players and I was lucky to be drafted myself by the Sky Pillar Sableyes.
My team: 
Larry's team: 
Game 1
Game 2
My team: 
zee's team: 
Game 1
Game 2
My team: 
Nnico’s team:
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
My team:
Noodle’s team:
Game 1
Game 2
My team: 
My team: 
Nnico’s team: 
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
My team: 
Finally, I would like to give a huge thanks to my teammates and in particular For 4LOM for helping me with teambuilding, test games and generally being a great team atmosphere for my first time taking part in a Smogon team tournament. Also thanks to the ADV community and ADVLTL hosts for including Orre in this tournament, I hope this can be the first of many such inclusions in ADV!
Orre Colosseum was recently featured in the first edition of ADV Lower Tier League team tournament. It featured an elite lineup of top Orre players and I was lucky to be drafted myself by the Sky Pillar Sableyes.
Week 1 vs Larry
I knew Akiak was the Orre main on this team but Larry was my opponent this week (but he had never previously played Orre to my knowledge), so I expected some kind of team that Akiak uses, but couldn't be sure it would not just be a random sample team.
Akiak is a big fan of Choice Banded bulky Metagross, as well as Gengar and Explosion spam teams in general. With this in mind, I had built a team with Hariyama, Raikou and Tauros for MB3 that I felt should work quite well without being too predictable as I hadn't used it since then. The structure is in my view quite solid and quite similar to Nnico Iosi's 'Blitzkrieg' team but with more of a balance flavour due to MetaLatiZap. Reflect on Latias was key to prevent Explosion mindgames dominating and Hariyama with Fake Out + Helping Hand would enable my pokemon to break through the slow bulky pokemon I anticipated from Larry.
Akiak is a big fan of Choice Banded bulky Metagross, as well as Gengar and Explosion spam teams in general. With this in mind, I had built a team with Hariyama, Raikou and Tauros for MB3 that I felt should work quite well without being too predictable as I hadn't used it since then. The structure is in my view quite solid and quite similar to Nnico Iosi's 'Blitzkrieg' team but with more of a balance flavour due to MetaLatiZap. Reflect on Latias was key to prevent Explosion mindgames dominating and Hariyama with Fake Out + Helping Hand would enable my pokemon to break through the slow bulky pokemon I anticipated from Larry.
Larry's team:
Game 1
Game 2
I correctly anticipated that Larry would use one of Akiak’s teams, the Hariyama was very effective but Larry played well. I think my experience helped me make better decisions within the time pressure but it was still close.
Week 2 vs zee
Zee is a very strong opponent, only recently coming off a strong 9-3 NAIC performance in SV VGC, but he does not play Orre very often. I knew that I should expect something very standard, I had seen that zee has used a lot of CM Latios but given that it was only week 2 I expected a
zee's team:
Game 1
Game 2
I got quite unlucky in this set but I made some mistakes in prep. My team was strong into 3 attacks Latios but not very good into SubCM Latios. Overall a solid team but I used it at the wrong time.
Week 3 vs Nnico Iosi
Nnico Iosi is an Orre Colosseum veteran with numerous tournament wins, I knew I had to be very intentional in my team selection as he has particular preferences that are varied but possibly exploitable. I certainly expected Raikou as that is one of Nnico’s most used choices, which immediately made me want to run either Swampert or Marowak. In my previous matches with Nnico I have usually brought Swampert and I am generally known for using Swampert in all Orre Cups (live team locked tournaments) and so I felt Marowak was the best option.
With this in mind I felt that either Mosquito’s OC12 winning team or some variant of it would be solid and favourable into Nnico’s preferred choices. I made some slight changes, in particular swapping out Raikou as Mosquito used for Starmie, which seemed like a better choice against Nnico’s AeroBlitz team.
This also happened to be the 6 that For 4LOM (my teammate) used to reach the finals of OC12, but with significantly different movesets.
With this in mind I felt that either Mosquito’s OC12 winning team or some variant of it would be solid and favourable into Nnico’s preferred choices. I made some slight changes, in particular swapping out Raikou as Mosquito used for Starmie, which seemed like a better choice against Nnico’s AeroBlitz team.
This also happened to be the 6 that For 4LOM (my teammate) used to reach the finals of OC12, but with significantly different movesets.
Nnico’s team:
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
This was a very close match, Nnico brought a solid team which I didn’t really want to see, but I still feel like it was a pretty even matchup all things considered.
Week 4 vs 2xNoodle
Having seen that Shiritu (Noodle’s teammate) had been using a lot of Tyranitar and Noodle also had a history of sand teams, I felt it would be a good time to drop Snorlax for Hariyama once more. With this in mind I basically used my W1 team but with Tauros over Aerodactyl but they fill pretty similar roles.
Noodle’s team:
Game 1
Game 2
It was a close set but I think it exposed the weakness of HP Fire CM Latios, it fundamentally needs to be maximum speed to function against Tauros who can otherwise outspeed and KO it with no risk.
Week 5 vs FBISurveillanceMan
My team had pretty much guaranteed playoffs qualification already, so I didn’t feel like it was worth building an entirely new team. I expected Josh to bring a standard MetaLatiZap and so I was mostly between a Registeel team or Shedinja. Since Josh is known for using Shedinja I just thought it would be funnier to bring that.
Josh didn’t show up :(
Semifinals vs Nnico Iosi
I had a rematch against Nnico, who had been struggling so far in ADVLTL but is nonetheless one of the strongest and most consistent Orre players. I knew I wanted to bring something unexpected but solid, and so my mind instantly went to Arcanine, a pokemon I rate very highly but had for some reason never brought to an Orre game. Arcanine is great against Metagross and Heracross which I felt were quite likely for Nnico to bring, as well as having access to Charm to cripple Snorlax and Extreme Speed to deal some chip damage or break a substitute.
After that I was debating between Starmie and Swampert due to their synergy with Arcanine, I went with Swampert as I felt the most likely pokemon I would see is Raikou as Nnico is a huge proponent of it. With those settled I felt like I needed Latias and Zapdos to add ground immunities and check Metagross. Zapdos in particular was constructed to live a strong hit (in particular Choice Band Aerodactyl HP Rock) and then activate the Salac berry which would be strong against the more offensive teams Nnico uses. Latias with Reflect and Thunder Wave I felt added a solid check to the normals; Snorlax and Tauros, who are usually checked by Metagross, but in this case I felt Metagross was not needed and preferred the utility of Latios in the 6th slot to check Zapdos (who with HP Grass would otherwise be a big threat), Heracross and Hariyama. Arcanine and Zapdos were EVed to outpace Smeargle and Snorlax was EVed to maximise bulk whilst still OHKOing Raikou with Double Edge.
After that I was debating between Starmie and Swampert due to their synergy with Arcanine, I went with Swampert as I felt the most likely pokemon I would see is Raikou as Nnico is a huge proponent of it. With those settled I felt like I needed Latias and Zapdos to add ground immunities and check Metagross. Zapdos in particular was constructed to live a strong hit (in particular Choice Band Aerodactyl HP Rock) and then activate the Salac berry which would be strong against the more offensive teams Nnico uses. Latias with Reflect and Thunder Wave I felt added a solid check to the normals; Snorlax and Tauros, who are usually checked by Metagross, but in this case I felt Metagross was not needed and preferred the utility of Latios in the 6th slot to check Zapdos (who with HP Grass would otherwise be a big threat), Heracross and Hariyama. Arcanine and Zapdos were EVed to outpace Smeargle and Snorlax was EVed to maximise bulk whilst still OHKOing Raikou with Double Edge.
Nnico’s team:
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
This set was very close and Nnico brought an interesting combo which I had not anticipated: Clefable + CM Latios. This was definitely a counterpick but thankfully my Extreme Speed Arcanine was extremely useful against the Latios, as well as checking Heracross and CB Tauros.
I made a mistake by bringing Swampert game 1, I failed to consider how Substitute Latios + Follow Me would make my Swampert totally useless on lead, which caused me to fall behind early. Thankfully with some good reads and careful play in games 2 and 3 I managed to get through the boosted Latios and win, but Nnico as always did not make it easy, ggswp.
I made a mistake by bringing Swampert game 1, I failed to consider how Substitute Latios + Follow Me would make my Swampert totally useless on lead, which caused me to fall behind early. Thankfully with some good reads and careful play in games 2 and 3 I managed to get through the boosted Latios and win, but Nnico as always did not make it easy, ggswp.
Finals vs FBISurveillanceMan
I was very busy this whole week visiting family, so my prep was not as in depth as ideally would have wanted for a finals match. However, I knew to be prepared for the possibility of some trademark Josh cheese like Registeel or Shedinja, and so given my extremely low Gengar usage I opted for a Taunt WoW support gengar with no boom. I had used a similar set to win Orre Cup 17 in the limited format. My teammate For 4LOM had innovated Gengar during TPP VI and so I decided to take one of his EV spreads. From there I just went with solid team with CB Snorlax, MetaLatiZap and added Raikou as the 6th which felt synergistic but I had considered some alternatives as well such as Arcanine or Hariyama.
Josh dodged me again :( (because my team had already won the tournament)
Finally, I would like to give a huge thanks to my teammates and in particular For 4LOM for helping me with teambuilding, test games and generally being a great team atmosphere for my first time taking part in a Smogon team tournament. Also thanks to the ADV community and ADVLTL hosts for including Orre in this tournament, I hope this can be the first of many such inclusions in ADV!
ADVLTL Teams moment
https://pokepast.es/c191ea79e7c0701a VS Nnico
https://pokepast.es/70a5116892e4f401 VS Larry
https://pokepast.es/f07d4f915f91c955 VS Shiritu
https://pokepast.es/8e38f7ef1f6de247 VS Zee
https://pokepast.es/bb79141ed1cfb1b5 VS Oops
https://pokepast.es/6833950efb0e66c1 VS Shiritu
https://pokepast.es/ee8eadcfe698eca6 VS Oops
Shoutout Wingulls, Nnico/Shiritu for practice games and Radio Free Nerd Side for helping me build
https://pokepast.es/c191ea79e7c0701a VS Nnico
https://pokepast.es/70a5116892e4f401 VS Larry
https://pokepast.es/f07d4f915f91c955 VS Shiritu
https://pokepast.es/8e38f7ef1f6de247 VS Zee
https://pokepast.es/bb79141ed1cfb1b5 VS Oops
https://pokepast.es/6833950efb0e66c1 VS Shiritu
https://pokepast.es/ee8eadcfe698eca6 VS Oops
Shoutout Wingulls, Nnico/Shiritu for practice games and Radio Free Nerd Side for helping me build
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