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Tournament Hackmons Premier League II - Commencement
- Thread starter Electra102
- Start date
Ranking PH cores. If your team is placed low don't like what I said about you, prove me wrong in the tour! These are just my personal takes
1. Kyogres – 6: realExcaliju, jb291, TuffStuff; 7: adriancosmoem, AnsonIsTheBest, realExcaliju, splodge, Mewtwo's Greatest Soldier
2. Giraffes – 6: Glory, sussyamongusdrip, LycanrocWasTaken, Clas; 7: sussyamongusdrip, Glory, rightclicker, LycanrocWasTaken
3. Smeargles – 6: Ransei, Sheep Liver; 7: cscl, Ransei, ANinjaDude
4. Reshirams – 6: lag=bad, Maxouille, Eyeos, Iguana, berry, betathunder?; 7: lag=bad, Eyeos (Hallward)
5. Nihilegos – 6: NToTheN (GhastlyPixie?); 7: NToTheN, GhastlyPixie, Archey, aidan amoongus
ORAS (best to worst, assuming players start where I believe they will):
Kyogres
Giraffes (sussy not in ORAS)
Nihilegos (N in ORAS; main problem is who else starts as ORAS is given 2 slots)
Reshirams (lag not in ORAS)
Smeargles
Kyogres ≈ Giraffes > Nihilegos > Reshirams > Smeargles
USUM (best to worst, same assumption):
Smeargles
Kyogres
Giraffes
Reshirams (lag in USUM)
Nihilegos (N not in USUM)
Smeargles > Kyogres ≈ Giraffes > Reshirams ≈ Nihilegos
1. Kyogres – 6: realExcaliju, jb291, TuffStuff; 7: adriancosmoem, AnsonIsTheBest, realExcaliju, splodge, Mewtwo's Greatest Soldier
Excaliju/jb are very strong pilots in this pool, and the latter is mostly self-sufficient as well. I built most of Excaliju's teams in HPL I/PHPL, though, so actually building might be difficult. ORAS PH is also pretty hard to intuit if you're a competent builder in the other Hackmons metas so this is a problem. On the USUM side, I like adrian's creativity a lot and believe they will genuinely do well. I know Excaliju's done pretty well on the USUM ladder before, but I'm not sure about their building capabilities in that gen; the other USUM players can try to chip in though.
Glory is a much more prolific builder and an overall more solid pilot in ORAS than anyone else I listed. sussy also has good (but overall less consistent) ideas, and while I dislike their piloting that doesn't matter here as they won't be starting in ORAS. Lycanroc is honestly overall underrated imo, building solid enough teams in conjunction with Glory/sussy, though again piloting leaves much to be desired. I rate sussy quite highly in USUM and Glory/rightclicker support also count for something.
Weakest ORAS by far imo, I don't trust Ransei or Sheep Liver's building and while Ransei is a decent enough pilot in this pool, that's less so in Bo3 ORAS (where the tougher players will slot) and Sheep Liver will also likely start (in Bo1). Nihilslave can play in a tiebreak scenario, at least. In contrast the Smeargles' USUM is probably the strongest out of the 5 teams, and I can explain by opinion but not fully rationalize cscl's meta takes or preferred teams. I think Ransei can also meaningfully help as well. Overall middling if you take both extremes into account.
lag is probably the most creative ORAS builder, but unfortunately that gen doesn't really favor raw creativity over "controlled" creative sets that actually meaningfully interact with the metagame titans and are consistent. Also unfortunately, I don't trust any of the other ORAS builders, though they're all creative to some degree. I haven't seen betathunder play in a while, if ever, but they're a fairly solid player so I'll be excited if they're given the opportunity to start at some point. I like lag's creativity more in USUM, though their support isn't the strongest as I don't rate Eyeos' building style very highly. Also, I don't think lag's building style is conducive to the type of meta USUM has evolved into. Hallward's cooking may count for something though
I personally think N's preferred ORAS archetypes are a bit outdated and not actually that consistent, but are decent enough, and N is a fairly strong pilot. However, I don't know who the hell plays the other ORAS slot, since no one else seems to have more than a basic understanding of the tier. Also unsure who starts in USUM (probably Pix?) or if N/Archey/aidan can sufficiently aid in building for her in modern USUM PH. Maybe QT can pick up one or both gens? That'd be cool
ORAS (best to worst, assuming players start where I believe they will):
Kyogres
Giraffes (sussy not in ORAS)
Nihilegos (N in ORAS; main problem is who else starts as ORAS is given 2 slots)
Reshirams (lag not in ORAS)
Smeargles
Kyogres ≈ Giraffes > Nihilegos > Reshirams > Smeargles
USUM (best to worst, same assumption):
Smeargles
Kyogres
Giraffes
Reshirams (lag in USUM)
Nihilegos (N not in USUM)
Smeargles > Kyogres ≈ Giraffes > Reshirams ≈ Nihilegos
Last edited:
>Sheep Liver: OK builder in ORAS, pretty decent clicker.Remade ORAS rankings (managers in italics)
Players ordered within rank.
Didn't include myself due to bias.
tier
Glory: Do I need to explain this? Best tour builder, decent pilot.
NToTheN: Solid builder. Solid pilot. Loads of experience. No need to explain this as well.
aerobee: A few questionable teams. Really good pilot, one of the best builders. Easily the best player with Dual MMX.
tier
Iguana: Please sign up if you have timeRespectful clicker, awesome builder, really looking forward to your teams!
Lag=bad: Very solid builder. Decent pilot.
tier
Ransei: He can easily support every single tier. Might be underestimated in ORAS although he can cook really cool tour teams that work.
Excaliju: Solid builder. Very good pilot. Brings somewhat really standard teams.
jb291: Good pilot. Decent builder from what I've seen in HPL1.
tier
SussyAmongUsDrip: Solid builder. Respectful clicker.
Berry: Good clicker. Good builder.
Nihilslave: Definitely not the best ORAS builder. But imo one of the best pilot if not the best pilot in every meta. Needs support if he somehow ends up in ORAS but with a decent team, could be a huge threat.
Maxouille: All of his HO teams are weak to Pixi MDiancie in PHPL. Very good pilot but I'm afraid he would be cteamable if he doesn't adjust in HPL.
tier
Cscl: Good builder, decent clicker for ORAS, hopefully he doesn't end up playing ORAS.
GhastlyPixie: OK builder for ORAS, solid clicker.
Sheep Liver: OK builder in ORAS, pretty decent clicker.
Teamo: Never seen them build much in ORAS, solid clicker.
Archey: Decent builder. OK pilot.
Scipioklol: Decent pilot. Builds are questionable for the current meta.
tier
TuffStuff: OK pilot, OK builder.
Ineros: Good pilot, never seen them build themselves at all in ORAS, so likely won't play ORAS tho
Podra: OK pilot from what I've seen.
tier
Guysmash: Doesn't build much in ORAS and doesn't have much experience in it. He does however pilot pretty fairly.
Rarre: Never seen them play at all, solid builder and driver in metas he play tho.
Clas: Never seen them play at all, solid builder and driver in metas he play tho.
Dabob95: Lobby ORAS PH player, fair builder and pilot.
tier
itzemanboss: Support material
mayonnaise. mayo.: Support material
tier
Penultimate Toast: Unironically the most questionable player in the entire ORAS PH signups.
View attachment 760241
Managers who plan to draft him for usum:
View attachment 760243
I hope he brings one that's good and can actually beat cscl!
Alright. Bye.
Edit: sorry Nihilslave, spelt your name wrong
why do people think I'm good at building ;-; I cannot build for shit
Ranking SVBH slots.
1.
QT + Pannuracotta is an extremely high tier pairing and I expect their build styles to be pretty compatible (they are both boring as hell). TTTech is there but I feel he's probably going to go in ND or Oldgens and I don't really think his support would be useful to their playstyles.
2.
I really really hate to say it, but Chessking is the best player in the pool assuming he slots SV. Taka or Damflame will also probably perform well with the team's quite good builder support between Chess Quo Ballfire and Aerobee, but might not be super consistent.
3.
Wheaty is a good clicker although definitely has a reputation for being a one trick in the builder and may be low on morale post-OMPL. They've got a handful of viable options for the other slot in RC and Treeko plus potentially Zane if they manage to get back into the meta.
4.
Funny team because Anaconja and Nihilslave are BH all stars who could certainly pick up SV quickly to support their clickers. But I don't think either of them actually want to. So that leaves Ninjadude Mok3s and Quinn, all competent players who could really use the building support out to dry. If Nihil supports heavily I could see them going above Ampharos but I'm not sure if he will.
5.
Who is even here...? Hallward builds will probably do OK although he's gonna be the main builder so it will be more predictable. Groudons last HPL got a lot of their SV wins off cheesy teams and there's a lot less of that running around. MAMP won't be slotting SV and probably will be busy carrying the oldgens. The clickers are UnbecomingDuck, who is OK but will probably need support as they have little to no tour experience. Betticus and Evie who are good OM players with interest in picking up BH, but might have pretty big motivation issues on the Reshirams. There are also some relative unknowns and maybe Hallward will have found some diamonds in the rough but I'm not really a believer.
1.
QT + Pannuracotta is an extremely high tier pairing and I expect their build styles to be pretty compatible (they are both boring as hell). TTTech is there but I feel he's probably going to go in ND or Oldgens and I don't really think his support would be useful to their playstyles.
2.
I really really hate to say it, but Chessking is the best player in the pool assuming he slots SV. Taka or Damflame will also probably perform well with the team's quite good builder support between Chess Quo Ballfire and Aerobee, but might not be super consistent.
3.
Wheaty is a good clicker although definitely has a reputation for being a one trick in the builder and may be low on morale post-OMPL. They've got a handful of viable options for the other slot in RC and Treeko plus potentially Zane if they manage to get back into the meta.
4.
Funny team because Anaconja and Nihilslave are BH all stars who could certainly pick up SV quickly to support their clickers. But I don't think either of them actually want to. So that leaves Ninjadude Mok3s and Quinn, all competent players who could really use the building support out to dry. If Nihil supports heavily I could see them going above Ampharos but I'm not sure if he will.
5.
Who is even here...? Hallward builds will probably do OK although he's gonna be the main builder so it will be more predictable. Groudons last HPL got a lot of their SV wins off cheesy teams and there's a lot less of that running around. MAMP won't be slotting SV and probably will be busy carrying the oldgens. The clickers are UnbecomingDuck, who is OK but will probably need support as they have little to no tour experience. Betticus and Evie who are good OM players with interest in picking up BH, but might have pretty big motivation issues on the Reshirams. There are also some relative unknowns and maybe Hallward will have found some diamonds in the rough but I'm not really a believer.
PRs
SVBH
1.
A bit above the rest. pannu is the strongest clicker here and QT is the strongest player if they choose to slot. QT teams are also universally pilotable by other clickers on the team, albeit their in games are not as strong. I know TTTech does not want to play SV or so they claim, but if they are slotting SV thats just a bonus.
2.
Marginally above 3rd because I think the teams are going to be the strongest, and the in game is not even worse just less experience with the players I'm expecting. City and Akira teams are not usually the easiest to pilot but they are perfectly capable of helping their players refine drafts and stuff.
3.
The biggest issue is going to be the lack of builders, since their main stars are all likely slotted into the 3 other formats. That being said Nihilslave with Sevag support can construct good teams still and I rank their players skill level a bit higher.
4.
A lot of players with experience in SV here, but I have reserves about their compatibility since they all seem to have pretty unique team preferences (and not a whole lot of diversity). I also think in terms of team solidity this team could be more shaky. Piloting I would also rank marginally weaker.
5.
This team lacks builders. Hallward teams are definitely not for everyone and while MAMP can help I don't know how spread thin they might be here. The pilots here also don't have the most experience with playing and for sure not building, so that's going to be a super weak link for sure. Individually the players aren't bad since several are very good at other tiers, but motivation might also be an issue with the team supply issue.
SSBH
1.
Nihilslave is more than super capable in this slot with builds and plays, and they unlike 2nd have team support from Sevag.
2.
I think, if MAMP is slotting in this, then they are the most self sufficient and capable player here. SS in general is quite pilot heavy but that also requires the player to be familiar with the developed meta and the team they are using, all of which MAMP ticks off.
3.
If QT is playing this slot themself then I can see this being higher, though the top 3 would be really close. Otherwise, I expect solid teams passed from QT but I think the piloting would be weaker.
4.
Jqlove is a better clicker than whoever Nihilegos can play that isn't QT, but I don't know how well they will fare without Nihilslave passing teams (IF Nihilslave isn't passing teams). That being said SS doesn't require that much new teambuilding so maybe its fine.
5.
Team has fine clickers I believe like Osake and Kabilapok, but I think compared to the other teams (SS pool is heavy) they might have less experience (actually probably not less than Nihilego I think their clickers might be more rusty). Teams shouldn't be an issue with cityscapes but her teams are still harder to pilot even in SS I think.
SMBH
1.
anaconja + Sevag core is comfortably the strongest in both teambuilding and piloting.
2.
I think of all the slots QT is likely to slot into this is the most likely one. And while I don't have as much recollection of QT in SM it is still QT and they probably just skill gap.
3.
Mickle is for sure overlooked and one of the more active (once was) players in SM especially in the later end, and city (+ Akira) support is more than enough.
4.
This depends on if berry is the one playing this, since though they might be rusty they still have experience and MAMP support here is quite valuable. If berry isn't the one playing then this might be 5th since I don't think any of the remaining players have notable experience.
5.
jasprose is capable but their builds might be more on the linear side and this team doesn't have much support.
NDBH
1.
anaconja + Sevag core is the strongest in both teambuilding and piloting, as long as Sevag doesn't choke (big if).
2.
TTTech is very good and probably the most solid slotter here, and BoingK is also fine and offers support alongside the other players on this team like QT.
3.
Clas has experience, rightclicker can offer support.
4.
I know Akira doesn't like this tier and city hasn't played it in quite a while but I think thats still city support. Pilots I don't see anyone that has notable experience though.
5.
I don't see anyone on this team with ND experience and ND is a tier that has a lot of stuff going on unique to it so thats going to hurt. AM might have some idea based on maybe some engagement with NDAMs but building is still an issue.
Overall (including PH)
1.
I think this team has generally well rounded slots across. 3 non SVBH slots are very strong, 7PH very strong, and the remaining slots are all playable. Top team in tiebreaks too.
2.
Some very strong BH slots with big names, but QT can only play in one slot so 1-2 might be a bit shakier. PH can also definitely be quite weak.
3.
No outright weak slot, which can be nice. However none of the slots outside of Bo3 are particularly strong, which can make every week shaky. Team synergy might also be a factor.
4.
Novel draft strategy that I would never do, so perhaps I am missing something here. Team has many many players, and the names aren't bad but can have similar issues with the Giraffes. PH slots are strong but might have building issues for 6PH.
5.
I think outside of 8BH there are really no standout slots here, especially the other BH slots being problematic here. Hallward pulled off an impressive performance despite doubts last year, but I think there are several factors here that are different and hurt his attempt again this year.
SVBH
1.
A bit above the rest. pannu is the strongest clicker here and QT is the strongest player if they choose to slot. QT teams are also universally pilotable by other clickers on the team, albeit their in games are not as strong. I know TTTech does not want to play SV or so they claim, but if they are slotting SV thats just a bonus.
2.
Marginally above 3rd because I think the teams are going to be the strongest, and the in game is not even worse just less experience with the players I'm expecting. City and Akira teams are not usually the easiest to pilot but they are perfectly capable of helping their players refine drafts and stuff.
3.
The biggest issue is going to be the lack of builders, since their main stars are all likely slotted into the 3 other formats. That being said Nihilslave with Sevag support can construct good teams still and I rank their players skill level a bit higher.
4.
A lot of players with experience in SV here, but I have reserves about their compatibility since they all seem to have pretty unique team preferences (and not a whole lot of diversity). I also think in terms of team solidity this team could be more shaky. Piloting I would also rank marginally weaker.
5.
This team lacks builders. Hallward teams are definitely not for everyone and while MAMP can help I don't know how spread thin they might be here. The pilots here also don't have the most experience with playing and for sure not building, so that's going to be a super weak link for sure. Individually the players aren't bad since several are very good at other tiers, but motivation might also be an issue with the team supply issue.
SSBH
1.
Nihilslave is more than super capable in this slot with builds and plays, and they unlike 2nd have team support from Sevag.
2.
I think, if MAMP is slotting in this, then they are the most self sufficient and capable player here. SS in general is quite pilot heavy but that also requires the player to be familiar with the developed meta and the team they are using, all of which MAMP ticks off.
3.
If QT is playing this slot themself then I can see this being higher, though the top 3 would be really close. Otherwise, I expect solid teams passed from QT but I think the piloting would be weaker.
4.
Jqlove is a better clicker than whoever Nihilegos can play that isn't QT, but I don't know how well they will fare without Nihilslave passing teams (IF Nihilslave isn't passing teams). That being said SS doesn't require that much new teambuilding so maybe its fine.
5.
Team has fine clickers I believe like Osake and Kabilapok, but I think compared to the other teams (SS pool is heavy) they might have less experience (actually probably not less than Nihilego I think their clickers might be more rusty). Teams shouldn't be an issue with cityscapes but her teams are still harder to pilot even in SS I think.
SMBH
1.
anaconja + Sevag core is comfortably the strongest in both teambuilding and piloting.
2.
I think of all the slots QT is likely to slot into this is the most likely one. And while I don't have as much recollection of QT in SM it is still QT and they probably just skill gap.
3.
Mickle is for sure overlooked and one of the more active (once was) players in SM especially in the later end, and city (+ Akira) support is more than enough.
4.
This depends on if berry is the one playing this, since though they might be rusty they still have experience and MAMP support here is quite valuable. If berry isn't the one playing then this might be 5th since I don't think any of the remaining players have notable experience.
5.
jasprose is capable but their builds might be more on the linear side and this team doesn't have much support.
NDBH
1.
anaconja + Sevag core is the strongest in both teambuilding and piloting, as long as Sevag doesn't choke (big if).
2.
TTTech is very good and probably the most solid slotter here, and BoingK is also fine and offers support alongside the other players on this team like QT.
3.
Clas has experience, rightclicker can offer support.
4.
I know Akira doesn't like this tier and city hasn't played it in quite a while but I think thats still city support. Pilots I don't see anyone that has notable experience though.
5.
I don't see anyone on this team with ND experience and ND is a tier that has a lot of stuff going on unique to it so thats going to hurt. AM might have some idea based on maybe some engagement with NDAMs but building is still an issue.
Overall (including PH)
1.
I think this team has generally well rounded slots across. 3 non SVBH slots are very strong, 7PH very strong, and the remaining slots are all playable. Top team in tiebreaks too.
2.
Some very strong BH slots with big names, but QT can only play in one slot so 1-2 might be a bit shakier. PH can also definitely be quite weak.
3.
No outright weak slot, which can be nice. However none of the slots outside of Bo3 are particularly strong, which can make every week shaky. Team synergy might also be a factor.
4.
Novel draft strategy that I would never do, so perhaps I am missing something here. Team has many many players, and the names aren't bad but can have similar issues with the Giraffes. PH slots are strong but might have building issues for 6PH.
5.
I think outside of 8BH there are really no standout slots here, especially the other BH slots being problematic here. Hallward pulled off an impressive performance despite doubts last year, but I think there are several factors here that are different and hurt his attempt again this year.
for all the ss bh players in the tour, here's a resource i made and have been using for a while to speed up calcing during games: https://pokepast.es/398bf96077913ded
you can import these sets into the damage calc so you don't have to waste time doing things like removing slow start from gigas and setting max evs every time, i find it a big help. these sets are optimised for calcing: obviously facade/v-create/glacial lance/wicked blow gigas is not a real set, but there's not really any point to having dragon dance or spikes on the set when you're trying to calc damage. hopefully this is helpful to somebody
you can import these sets into the damage calc so you don't have to waste time doing things like removing slow start from gigas and setting max evs every time, i find it a big help. these sets are optimised for calcing: obviously facade/v-create/glacial lance/wicked blow gigas is not a real set, but there's not really any point to having dragon dance or spikes on the set when you're trying to calc damage. hopefully this is helpful to somebody