Other Tier 35 Pokes-- August 2025

[qbking3]

Sorry for this post being a bit late after that one however here are the tiering survey results that the decision to ban Gliscor was based upon.

Enjoyability: 6.21
6.21 is a decent score especially considering that the meta was in the place where a quickban was made. Results are skewed left which are always great for this kind of question with people generally liking the meta but not being over the moon for it.

Balance: 5.56
A score of 5.56 is not quite ideal but again, considering there was a quickban and this was based on the pre-ban meta. Still technically positive but it is expected that this will improve as time continues.

Gliscor: 6.46
By far the most interesting and controversial mon on the survey, Gliscor had a disproportionate amount of people who really wanted the thing gone. A massive 10/32 people voted 10 and 15/32 voted 8 or higher. This roughly matches the level of support for Weavile and Gallade whose bans were swift and strongly favored.

Rillaboom: 5.37
Definitely on the radar whose fate may depend on the new survey *cough* *cough* omg is that a link? https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...pv15f0V761fK0xxE-faZA6lPA/viewform?usp=dialog

Kleavor: 3.82
With the ban of Gliscor, Kleavor stocks are on a rise and action may or may not be taken based on the results of the next survey but spoort for action on this survey is not there.

Arctovish: 4.12
With the ban of Gliscor, it is unclear whether the stocks for Arctovish shall go up or down but regardless, the support for action on this survey is simply not there for any action.

Obstagoon: 3.15
This thing is fine.

 

[Ember Celica]

The 35 Pokes tiering council recently voted 7-0 to suspect test

In the post-Gliscor metagame, Rillaboom was the single most centralizing pokemon and was near-mandatory on every team. Our justifications for the suspect test can be found below:

Ember Celica

I voted to suspect test Rillaboom because it has only become more centralizing since the Gliscor ban, and the new pokemon we got to replace Gliscor has offered no options to mitigate that. Both Rillaboom and counter to it are nearly mandatory on every team, and this greatly limits the variety of teams and strategies one is able to run. Its would-be checks lack reliable recovery, and it has a variety of options to boost or maintain its damage output (namely life orb, swords dance, and clear amulet) enough to force its way through them. And even if RIllaboom if kept sufficiently in check by the likes of Incineroar, Azumarill, Bouffalant, scarf Kleavor, and Arctvoish behind Aurora Veil in the snow, it will almost assuredly have secured valuable kos or chip damage against the answers to other top metagame threats. Sivally, Flygon, and Slowking-Galar have all been cited as potential answers to Kleavor and all also fall to Rilaboom's terrain-boosted STABs. With all that being said, there is still some legitimate doubt as to whether the tier would be better off without Rillaboom or not. Rillaboom is the best answer to other top threats such as Arctovish, Kleavor (slush rush and choice scarf sets respectively) and Blastoise, and removing it may result in a metagame where those threats dominate the metagame in just as unhealthy a way as Rillaboom is now. I do not personally believe that will be the case, but there is enough legitimate concern in my mind to sway me away from voting for a quickban and opting to suspect test instead.

The post-Gliscor tiering survey indicated that the playerbase is largely in agreement with the council on this matter. Rillaboom received an average rating of 7.76, with no survey respondents rating it below a 5. Significantly fewer people responded to this tiering survey compared to the previous one, however, and that is another reason why I personally decided to vote for a suspect test instead of a quickban. I believe a suspect test will offer the rest of the playerbase a final opportunity to have their say on the matter, and that it is best at this current moment to do so.

Tiering Survey Results: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ZOO-pvYOkE/edit?gid=1812535469#gid=1812535469

Qbking

I voted **suspect** on Rillaboom as it has very limited checks, all of which it can beat due to set variety. Banded blows up mons that can take an unboosted move, Swords Dance can seemingly set up and sweep at any time with coverage for every potential wall thanks to Superpower, High Horsepower, and Knock Off. That being said, Rillaboom disappearing would entirely reshape the landscape of the meta as many mons who are kept in check lose their omnipresent counter (Belly drum Azumarill, Shell Smash Blastoise, etc) which could lead to a much more volatile meta.

For full transparency, if it were not too late to change my vote, I would have voted for a quick ban. Never before have I seen data showing nobody voting below a 5 on something I think that says a lot about how this suspect test will go however that ship has sailed. Klee or is also at the threshold for tiering action and that is arguably on that list alongside Blastoise and Azumarill in the potentially broken mons. The only difference is that Kleavor is already super strong even with Rillaboom on almost every team

7ayakum

I vote suspect on Rillaboom because although it was the best Pokémon before the Gliscor ban, now it feels like the most centralising and teetering past that line of being a necessary evil. Choice Band sets have always been good, letting Rillaboom do crazy damage to resists even lke Glowking, being able to 2HKO that. Grassy Glide can OHKO about a third of the tier if they are around the 50% hp mark. And it has great coverage for the meta, being able to hit one of its best checks in Incineroar with High Horsepower, as well as do a big chunk to sap sipper Azumarill and Physically defensive Glowking. It also has Drain Punch for SD sets to be able to hit Bouffalant and +2 HHP already does a good amount to that. U-turn allows Rillaboom to keep up momentum and pivot out of bad matchups. In addition, Rillaboom's grassy terrain mitigates its Wood Hammer recoil damage and Life Orb damage on SD sets, making an already bulky Pokémon even harder to take down.

If Rillaboom were to be banned, it would flip the whole meta on its head. All of our offensive water Pokémon will be more freed up to try out more offensive sets. Belly Drum Huge Power Azumarill, Shell Smash Blastoise, DD Feraligatr, and Floatzel. This also frees up Arctovish which may end up leading to another suspect or ban. Kleavor as well would rise even more, as Grassy Glide can OHKO Kleavor after a bit of chip. I cannot fully say whether Rillaboom being banned will be a good or a bad thing, it keeps many things in check like the pokémon I mentioned, but it also restricts team building and forces you to have dedicated Pokémon for it in the tier, of which there are none without their own flaws. Therefore I believe a suspect is justified in order to let the player base let their opinions be heard on this Polarising pokémon.

NoExistencia

I voted Suspect Test

Not going to say anything that my fellow members haven't said. Rilla is by far the most oppressive mon in the meta mainly for it's ability to completely ignore speed tiers and effectively deal with the main walls of the tier (the slow mons, incineroar, etc) without much opportunity cost. It's just an incredibly strong mon thats not super fragile thanks to it's natural bulk and the passive healing with terrain and even has useful utility in knock off and U-turn. It's also not super vulnerable to the ever present rocks so it's much easier to bring multiple times than some of the other powerful mons like Arcto or Kleavor. It's extremely oppressive in team building requiring specific mons or sets to check which leads to suboptimal team structures or straight up dead mons if the rilla isn't there.
However, I'm not entirely sure if this is enough to call it overpowered to the point it warrants a quick ban so I prefer it to be suspected tested

Zetious

I voted SUSPECT on Rillaboom

Rillaboom is very strong and centralizing in this meta. It can fit on almost any team and has great match ups into most of the other top mons. Most teams need to have a Rillaboom answer, whether that’s Incinaroar or Sap Sipper Azumarill or Bouffalant, but Rilla has coverage to either chip or eliminate these checks, Superpower for Incinaroar and Bouffalant or High Horsepower for Azumarill. It can run a few different sets with the two most popular being Swords Dance or Choice Band. Both play similar in practice and take advantage of having a strong priority move or the absolute nuke that in Wood Hammer. Nothing outside of the 3 mentioned earlier can really take a +1 or +2 Wood Hammer.

If Rillaboom were to get banned, multiple other mons will be on the ban radar, those being: Arctovish and Kleavor and also includes other ones to keep and eye on being: Blastoise, Starmie, Feraligatr, Azumarill, and Floatzel. I am against the idea of broken checks broken so the fact that Rillaboom keeps these in check doesn’t mean to me that it shouldn’t receive a suspect test and just means the council may have more work in the future in the event that it is banned.

GcGoat

I voted to suspect Rillaboom and will likely be voting Ban in the suspect. Rillaboom has the combination of strong priority, incredibly powerful STAB that even resists don't like switching into, utility in Knock Off and U-turn, coverage to beat its checks, and a setup move that can be used to clean games with ease. There are very few options for dealing with all of these factors, with the best and most splashable being Incineroar. However, Incineroar is vulnerable to hazards after its boots have been removed, and also takes heavy damage from a Choice Band or Swords Dance boosted fighting move. Bouffalant has an immunity to Grass, but is even more vulnerable to fighting coverage as it lacks Intimidate. The only true switch in is Sap Sipper Azumarill, which is extremely passive and fails to make progress against the common Regenerator cores of the meta. This absence of checks that are both viable and consistent creates an unhealthy balance where the main goal of every team is to not lose to Rillaboom. This means never using Pokemon that are Rillaboom food, such as Feraligatr, Blastoise, and Azumarill without Sap Sipper. Slowking and Starmie are still solid due to their defensive utility and access to pivoting, but have little offensive presence. This leaves Arctovish as the only Water able to make progress against balance teams, as the snow defense boost lets it survive a Grassy Glide from full. Banning Rillaboom would allow for other offensive Waters to be used, making Arctozolt less centralizing. The presence of more water types would also indirectly nerf Kleavor, another highly centralizing Pokemon in the meta. Additionally, teams would be able to run a wider variety of defensive structures, as Incineroar would turn from a near mandatory include to a solid option.

Turtles12

I voted suspect on Rillaboom because the swords dance sets on Rillaboom can run a variety of moves to beat every one of its checks. All of the checks to Rillaboom have unreliable recovery and must remain healthy to work. However there is a large variety of checks and Rillaboom’s priority stop the very strong water attackers from getting out of hand. So on one hand Rillaboom is too strong for 35pokes however, on the other hand, banning Rillaboom would dramatically alter the tier and may cause the need for further bans halfway into the month. For this reason I thought a suspect test to get player input on the direction this meta goes was warranted. A high power level meta with Rillaboom at the top keeping other threats at bay, or a lower power meta where more pokemon will most likely need to be banned, potentially in the middle of the monthly tour.

After the council voted, a brief 56 hour suspect test was held to give players the final say regarding Rillaboom’s fate. There were notable arguments put forth by prominent community members both in support of and against the ban, and I will highlight one of each:

The most prominent DNB argument came from AReallyShiftyGuy, the current top ranked player in the community and former tier leader. He made a compelling case against banning Rillaboom, and it was almost enough to convince me personally to change my vote.

DNB by Shifty

I think that there is a certain aspect of keeping things realistic with bans here, I think people should consider whether or not banning rilla actually makes the tier better. It's the 17th of the month, and banning rilla could make at least 5 mons incredibly hard to deal with in bd azu, smash toise, kleavor, starmie and arctovish (honestly feraligatr and obsta as well imo to some extent)

Imo rilla is a necessary evil, I honestly don't think the tier will be fun if we ban it. I think there's a good chance multiple bans will be required to balance things if we do, and we might simply not have time to do that in a way that makes sense in the context of 35 considering we need to wait for this suspect to end, then we need to allow some time for the meta to stabilize to determine what's actually broken, and then the council will need to discuss those mons and determine any action. It could easily be like the 22nd or 23rd before a potential suspect for those mons even starts, and the meta still might not even be as balanced as it is right now after 1 or even 2 bans

With that in mind I think we should keep rilla. It's centralizing, it can sweep your team if you guess the set wrong, but all its sets do have checks, albiet different ones depending on the set, and both teams do have a rilla which can be an emergency check in itself if you're running u-turn. The meta revolves around rillaboom but I think that's better than the alternative. Games can come down to who positions their rilla better but I don't necessarily think that's an inherently terrible thing, centralized metas can still be fun and I'm having fun with this one despite its flaws

The most prominent argument in favor of banning Rillaboom came from ExiDudi, a recent addition to the community who has made a name for himself with impressive results on the discord ladder and throughout the June 2025 tournament. He was the strongest advocate for banning Rillaboom and made a detailed post on the council’s discord server shortly after the Gliscor ban explaining why:

Ban by ExiDudi

I know we just did a survey but i would like to propose to ban Rillaboom. Rillaboom has, since the beginning of this meta, been by far the best offensive mon in the tier. The reason for this is that rillaboom hits even resists like slowking galar incredibly hard and it can carry coverage to often just invalidate them. Incineroar has been doing well for quite some time and is/was the most consitent answer you could have to it. The issue is that incineroar gets hit incredibly hard by both hhp and superpower. It can also not beat the SD set

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Superpower vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Incineroar: 382-452 (97.2 - 115%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Gliscor was recently banned but i do not think that this meta will be any less centralized when we still have threats like this (and others i will maybe come to later, notably kleavor) running around. Sap sipper azu is an incredibly passive mon. The perish trap set gets beaten out by any slowking that can pivot (or even those that cant in the case of more offensive glowkings).

I dont have that many games played in the post glisc meta that would demonstrate its effect that well and it would be weird to use replays from the glis meta but this game i think demonstrates the issues with rilla (and really also kleavor kind of) pretty well i believe

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex35pokes-2400996738



Also, just as a sidenote, while this doesnt really demonstrate brokenness per se Rilla is also the mon with the highest usage in the tier which also differentiates it from something like Vish. Rilla fits on, i believe, quite literally every meta team

The suspect test concluded late last night, and with 85.71% in favor, was officially banned from the July 2025 format with randomly selected to replace it. Unfortunately, is not everything we hoped for in a reroll as its Ground typing leaves it just as vulnerable to all of the major Water types such as , , and which many of us believed could potentially get out of hand without around. However, people seem to believe that may serve as an additional check to which was the other pokemon of major concern in a post-Rillaboom world and so hope remains that the metagame may yet stabilize into something palatable.


Tagging dhelmise to please implement the removal of Rillaboom and the addition of Sandaconda!

 

[OceanicGamer]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OgZvoiSkR6XMStua6HZBoKIFSg1hY2hvhqRMO6d2TXQ/edit?usp=sharing



um so I made this day 1 and forgot to post... better late than never

I will be updating it tmrw to remove scor and rilla for gator and conda

 

[qbking3]

With the stabilization of the metagame, this feels like the right time to make an underrated set post.
Arctovish @ Power Herb
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Meteor Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
Behold! A set that actually does the thing that the ability would infer it does. Meteor Beam handles the Arctovish mirror super well and turns it into an actual offensive threat. Azumarill doesn't like eating a Freeze Dry and Play Rough only deals 65% maximum unboosted. Specs Starmie can't OHKO with a Thunderbolt and it doesn't like eating a Freeze Dry (and it gets OHKOed after a Meteor Beam boost). Blastoise is the worst matchup of the waters as a +2 Focus Blast does OHKO but it can't set up on Arctovish for what that's worth. Don't think of this set as a hard counter to any of these mons, instead think of it as a way to make the matchups easier for teams with some bad matchups, mainly HO which is quite vulnerable to these sweepers.

 

[OceanicGamer]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uonDVyt1rpOnL41Gqv5oUigXv7rZbEom2S0mIPlOLSk/edit?usp=sharing
speed tiers for august :3

 

[Ember Celica]

The 35 Pokes Tiering Council has voted 5-2 to Quickban Toaxpex from the August 2025 format. Scizor has been rolled as the replacement.


With 6 votes in favor and one abstention, Toxapex was officially quickbanned from the 35 Pokes August 2025 metagame. , , and were all considered at the same time and while Dugtrio only received one vote in favor of quickbanning it, Weavile also received 6 votes in support. If this were a previous month, we may have banned at the same time as and gotten 2 new pokemon at the same time. This month however, I insisted on taking action one pokemon at a time so that we could at least consider whether a new pokemon changes things enough to cause a previously broken pokemon to become balanced. Because we were only going to take action on one pokemon at a time, the council also ranked the 3 pokemon under consideration from first priority to third. Exactly half of the members voting on this matter selected Toxapex as their top priority for action, and the other half selected Weavile. To resolve this deadlock decision, we had to call in my two co-tier leaders to make a decision and break the tie in the dead of night. They decided should be our first priority, and so was replaced with everyone's favorite bug technician . The reasons why specifically we felt that Toxapex was a problem will be explained in a subsequent post.

Council Vote Breakdown:

Tier Leader tiebreaker Vote Breakdown:

tagging dhelmise to please implement removing Toxapex and replacing it with Scizor!


The original vote tally mentioned and shown in this post was a miscount -- the Council actually voted 6-0-1 on both and and the post has been corrected to reflect that.

 

[Ember Celica]

November 2024 Mid Month Usage Stats, post-tiering action

Graphic by OceanicGamer

Our November 2024 format is one of a fair few past formats that has a cult following, not quite as popular as some but not quite as unpopular as others. This metagame has the misfortune of existing in the shadow of two incredibly notable metagames: October 2024, when we first had a spotlight ladder (and the most-played 35 Pokes format to this day) and December 2024, the record-setting metagame for most suspect tests and bans in a single month. Despite this, the people who enjoy November 2024 enjoy it a great deal and have remained dedicated to it even as other formats get far more tournament play and community adoration. ThyUnitPossessCopium recently began an effort to create an updated viability ranking for this metagame, and so I thought it appropriate to share a little bit about what it was like to play this format when it was still current.

Because 35 Pokes maintains live usage stats for games played on our discord server, I knew that was used more than but that felt off to me both back in November and today as I'm writing this. That can likely be explained by the fact that was primarily used as a Moxie sweeper whereas could function in a variety of rolls including spinner, wallbreakers, sweeper, and fast scarfed pivot. That last part may sound like a joke, but the speed tiers (save Galvantula's) in this meta were genuinely that slow. Again excluding Galvantula, the base 85 speed tier was the fastest in the metagame. This partially explains Frosmoth's prominence, as it didn't even need a Timid nature to outspeed everything it needed to at +1. was far from the most prominent special bug though; that honor belongs to who was simultaneously the sole reason for and primary provider of speed control in this metagame. Sticky Web was very prevalent, often determining whether could sweep late game or not, and as such hazard control was particularly important. was the chief form of hazard control alongside and took advantage of its excellent defensive typing and good-enough movepool to earn a genuine place on teams even when hazard control wasn't strictly needed. also had a niche as a powerful shell smash sweeper, and could quickly force you into a terrible position if you relied too much on it being just a defensive spinner. And finally there's , the best check to you could find in this metagame. Yes, :Pisnir: could run Hyper Cutter Earthquake to turn into a sitting duck, but that came at the cost of running its Moxie Sweeper set, a worthwhile trade in many players' eyes. was also an excellent lead with access to toxic, thunder wave, spikes, toxic spikes, taunt, destiny bond, flip turn, *and* Intimidate. The only thing it couldn't do was set Stealth Rock which was definitely a detriment in a bug-dominated meta but didn't stop Qwilfish from still being a top pokemon.

 

[Zetious]

Dugtrio + SD Scizor Offense
Post Toxapex Ban Sample Team


This offense team is built around trapping fire and steel types with Dugtrio and then sweeping with SD Scizor. Here's a break down of each mon's role on the team.

Main late game sweeper and mid game revenge killer. This set has enough attack to OHKO Sylveon after rocks at +2, outspeed mirror, and the rest is dumped into HP and SPD. Can check Weavile and Gardevoir mid game and 1v1 non ID Cobalion.

Trapper to remove Arcanine, Incinaroar, and Copperajah and finish off chipped mons that are slower, This EV set is able to live timid Gardevior moonblast 87.5% of the time while still outspeeding Cobalion. Psyshock can still OHKO 62.5% of the time but if that's clicked then you can trap with your own Gardevoir and finish it off.

Main form of speed control on this team, it can trap dug and OHKO, check Weavile, and finish off chipped mons like Basculegion.

Hazard Setter, Fast Pivot and Maushold check. This set is the usual lead on this team and can prevent opposing Cobalion from setting hazards with taunt, set up your own rocks and can pivot out to dug or other teammates with volt switch.

Admittedly, this is the weakest part of this team. This team needed some form of removal to make the Dug calc work and it also needed a Basculegion check. Eldegoss is the only mon this month that checks both boxes the best for this team. It has leaf storm to do max damage to Basc if it stays in and stun spore to punish mons like Chandelure that might switch in. It is spin blocked by Brambleghast and it cant do anything back, but I think checking Basculegion is more important than spinning on this team. A previous iteration of this team used Amoongus in this slot and that can be substituted if you feel you don't need removal.

Main physical wall, slow pivot and Chandelure switch in. With intimidate and parting shot, Incineroar is able to check most physical attackers and can also knock off shed shells on opposing fires for Dugtrio and scarfs to allow Gardevoir to not have to win speed ties. Fake out is to chip Dug if it is able to trap you and flare blitz hits Scizor. This can be replaced by Teleport Arcanine to be better into CC Scizor and guarantee slow pivots but this leaves you very weak to Chandelure.

 

[qbking3]

Now seems like a good point in the month for a set spotlight post from me

While it is pretty universally agreed upon to be a top mon this month, the set variety actually reveals that its bag is pretty deep despite not having much for coverage. The set I will be showcasing serves a role on mainly BO and balance teams.

Basculegion-F (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Water
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute / Mud Shot
- Protect / Mud Shot

This set excels at taking advantage of opposing Choice Scarf pokemon for the simple reason that it can protect on the first hit then attack if behind a substitute or switch accordingly. That's not all that this set does though. Leftovers in combination with Protect and Substitute turns provides insane longevity and punishes passive play from your opponent while also being a massive threat every turn that it is on the field. I've seen a lot of people running ice beam as a coverage move on Agility sets which is kinda whatever as it does hit Chesnaut and it hits Eldegoss for like 8% more than Shadow Ball but on this set Mud Shot is the best coverage move if you want to use one. This is thanks to a silly little sun lizard named Heliolisk who is immune to both Water and Ghost type moves thanks to its typing and Dray Skin ability. Mud Shot not only lets you hit it for 40-48% (yes I know that sounds bad) but it also lowers the target's speed. This means that with some chip it will drop to a second Mud Shot which will outspeed thanks to the speed drop. This takes away arguably Heliolisk's biggest strength being a counter to Basculeigon and when Basculeigon hits the field, you can almost grantee that your opponent will be switching Heliolisk in.