Suspect SV Inheritance Suspect #3: Where This Flower Blooms (Shaymin-Sky)

[Don Vascus]

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As a very delayed follow-up to the last inheritour, Inheritance is suspecting Shaymin-Sky into the tier!

Shaymin-Sky has never been legal in Inheritance, always being in the initial banlist alongside the box legendaries and the such. But this generation the power level has risen enough for it to be comparable to the rest of the tier. Stat-wise, its very similar to Darkrai, with notably a higher speed tier, and its typing can be a mixed bag; Flying is a really good offensive typing but it bestows a weakness to rocks and Grass doesn't do it many favors. Its closest comparison within its typing is Tornadus-T, who sees no play but has a high ish speed and solid offenses. In the Inheritour it performed fine, if a bit underwhelmingly, and one of its most promising sets, mixed SFLO, has been banned since then.

However, Shaymin-Sky as base is infamous for its flinchax antics, and it can still pull those of in Inheritance. Sure, pokemon like Dudunsparce that have both Serene Grace and Air Slash with Glare to boot are already legal and not a problem in the tier, but Skymin as a donor brings Seed Flare as a way to break through with less reliance on multiple flinches, and as an inheritor it brings a much better stat spread than anything currently available. Other potential sets, such as Mixed Contrary and Sharpness, could finish pushing Skymin too far. Overall, this pokemon still offers a lot to explore and could potentially be an interesting addition to the tier, which is why its being suspected into the tier.

Requirements:

Create a new account on PS. You do not have to follow any specific naming convention, but your suspect account must have never played a game in Gen 9 Inheritance before this suspect test went up or you will not receive valid requirements (resetting W/L does not count for this - the account you use must never have played gen 9 Inh before the test, full stop.)
At any point on your new account, use the command /linksmogon on Pokemon Showdown! You will receive instructions on what to do once you run this command.
Double check that you're listed as a voter here! If you aren't listed as a voter despite having valid reqs, please contact April , Giagantic , dhelmise or a member of staff.

The requirement to vote in this suspect test is a COIL value of 2850 (b-value 2). The deadline for getting requirements will be <t:1756180740:R>

Voting:
Once the suspect period is over, everyone who has obtained reqs will be tagged. The post will then outline a process of blind voting, which will be clarified once the time arrives. For now, follow the above "Requirements" subheading to ensure that you have achieved requirements and linked your account
During the suspect, Shaymin-Sky will be allowed

A simple majority (50%+1) of unban votes is required to free Shaymin-Sky into Inheritance

 

[Ziek_Freek]

i hate this game with a burning passion i wanna rip my eyes out seriously like my progress kept being ruined by freezes or sub 1% ods i had to make a second account i was 8-4 on my first one and nuked it. yes ik 24-6 isnt bad or anything but i told myself i wouldnt go to sleep until i did it so i was tweaking out a bit. i didnt have to but i had to yk. would toats do it again though. taking a break from inh ladder i need to bleach my eyes

uhh im the only ever person on ladder i seen use skyymin but im sure that will change since it hasnt even been 12 hours since it started its pretty cool having a mon that outspeeds darkrai but honestly idk if its healthy lol leaning towards ban just cause specs hurricane like 2hkos everything not a blissey/chansey or regenvester and outspeeds everything but i wont just jump the gone and say ban it without seeing it in action atleast


Here free teams the ones i used(they arent exactly fully optimized yet cause i was building while playing while tired so use at your own discretion)
https://pokepast.es/41e53ca707a213de
https://pokepast.es/c8b5651bf5373b3e
https://pokepast.es/2a919db8e634df04
https://pokepast.es/163601abf85d8c44

 

[SergioRules]

So uh

This is the first time I've gotten reqs for anything in a long while, and for certain the first time I've ever gone undefeated to get them (I didn't really go undefeated, I had at least 3 alts before this that lost in the first 3 games so I started from scratch but I did do this run all with the same team).

My thoughts on Skymin: It's definitely a strong mon, don't get me wrong, but to me it never felt entirely overbearing. I think it has a cool niche in outspeeding Darkrai which I feel like is all over the ladder and it has a ton of different sets that I think are potentially viable. The most common ones I saw on opposing teams were mostly stuff like Vivillon, Braviary-H, or Dudunsparce all to varying levels of success with Hurricane as the main draw. However, I think physical and mixed sets are much more potent especially with the number of RegenVesters that don't really care about even boosted Flying STAB. I played around a little with Lurantis donor for Superpower but got too easily shut down by a lot of the Unaware walls I was seeing, so switched to Serperior with Gastro Acid for them but was then left SOL vs Goodra-H. Finally, after a game vs Don Vascus I found him using the truth. I won't give it away since I got the team idea from him but it felt like he cracked the code with Skymin and I don't even think it was the best part of the team I made. I can definitely see myself playing around with it more now that I've got reqs to see if it's truly balanced as I didn't try just keeping it as a regular Skymin.

Other thoughts: I really hate how stall-y this meta is. I genuinely played so many full stall/semi-stall teams that it made me want to rip my hair out. For anyone struggling vs these teams like I was, I highly recommend Sub+SD Decidueye-H!Zapdos-G. Has a really good matchup into most Ghold sets, eats up the RegenVesters, and TArrows not being contact means you power through Flame Body mons. Unaware mons are pretty easy to cheese through as well thanks to how insane the secondary effects are. I think there's a lot to explore in this meta and if people would stop being lame and running the same Ape/Ghold/Hands/Fez/Blissey/Goodra-H type teams the world would be a better place (seriously how do you queue up into an insanely fun and unique OM and load STALL, could never be me) (okay rant over).

I'll edit this later with the team paste I used so I don't leak Don's genius.
Okay, enough gatekeeping, here's the team featuring physically biased Gallade!Skymin:
The main stars of this show were actually the defensive core, just handling any and all offensive threats, but the reason for this specific Skymin set is that Sacred Sword is much better for breaking through Goodra-H and Snorlax as the most common RegenVesters while Air Slash covers the Naclstack!Annihilapes that I also saw a ton of on the ladder.

 

[BijouMode]

skymin should stay banned, ngl shifu/sneasler might have to go too
team used:

 

[CoolTrainerGary]

Team

Voting ban on Skymin.
In brief,
(1) it singlehandedly eliminates hyperoffense and offense as viable playstyles
(2) it is over-centralizing insofar as every balance build now needs an unaware mon in the defensive core

Honestly, did not run into the diversity of Skymin sets that I would have expected. Most common set I saw was Braviary-Hisui!Skymin and one contrary set. Wish we had a little bit more time to run the suspect but it is what it is. Between a mix of experience and theory, I'll break down my thoughts on Skymin by set.

Special

Shaymin-Sky @ Leftovers
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 172 Def / 84 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Substitute
- Hurricane
- Roost
If you're going to run a pure special set, I think it's optimal to run substitute so you don't just get phased out by every RegenAV Dragon Tail under the sun. Specifically, 108 Def EVs prevent U-Turn and Hoodra's dtail from breaking sub. This set is still going to have trouble with Snorlax w/ body slam or Mienshao vests with Pjab. What's nice about Hoot!Skymin is that, unlike Enamorous, it doesn't need dual dance with Agility because it already outspeeds almost the entire unbooster tier save Barraskewda and Jolteon.

Shaymin-Sky @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Healing Wish / Substitute
Skymin as itself is really disadvantaged in this game due to the prevalence of AVRegen. Even if you get the -2 Spdef drop on Hoodra switching into a seed flare, you only do 37-44% on the subsequent Earth Power, giving them ample opportunity to pivot netting only a -4-10% drop in HP when you factor in Regenerator. Seed Flare on a -2 AVLax is doing 32-38% and that's if your hitting an 80% accurate move. You can try to cheese them with a couple Air Slash flinches, but then you're just being an asshole. There's also the issue of spamming a move with only 8 PP; even if you are hitting your Seed Flares and getting your SpDef drops, over the course of a game an RegenAV can stall you out of your best move.

Mixed

Gallade / Hisui-Samurrott!Shaymin-Sky @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 8 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Taunt / Substitute / Encore
- Air Slash
- Sacred Sword
- Destiny Bond / Will-O-Wisp / Flip Turn
As is true for most pokemon in Inh, the mixed sets for Skymin are most threatening. Sharpness Sacred Sword 2HKOs your two most common RegenAV between Lax and Hoodra. Sharpness Air Slash provides you with a 112.5 BP 95% accurate move with a 30% chance of flinch, becoming one of the best and most spammable attacks in the game. Flying / Fighting has excellent neutral coverage with the only relevant resists being Zapdos and Gholdengo. If you're really worried about Ghold you can run Shadow Ball. Instead of Gallade, you can inherit from hamurrott to get Flip Turn, Ice Beam etc.

Kleavor!Shaymin-Sky @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Air Slash
- Stone Axe
- Close Combat
Same principle, although you need a little bit of Atk investment to 2hko your targets with CC instead of Sacred Sword. Role compression w/ stealth rocks is a huge boon for offense and bulky offense teams.

Lurantis!Shaymin-Sky @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Taunt / Substitute / Synthesis / Poison Jab / Facade
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Leaf Storm
I don't care what anyone says, this is Sykmin's most problematic set. Between it's speed and Contrary boosts, this set singlehandedly eliminates offense as a viable playstyle in Inh. Because of it's defense boosts and unparalleled base Speed, it can be a real bitch to revenge kill. After a couple leaf storms, this mon is OHKO'ing resists. If you feel like this set is not a problem, it is because you are running unaware Corv, Ghold, Fez etc. and in turn, you are only running those mons because of this set. In the environment of a suspect test, everyone is running the best stuff to counter the suspected mon because it makes it easy to ladder and achieve reqs. As a result, people's view of the pokemon becomes skewed by a two-week sample where every team is bringing the counter. Think this makes people blind to seeing how centralizing a pokemon or set really is. When the suspect test is over and the meta returns to a steady-state, do you really want to run Quag!Corv or Skeledirge!Ghold on every single team? I do not.

One counter that I expect to hear is that Contrary Sneasler, Urshifu etc. are just as threatening - they are not. This is because they only have one route to achieve boosts, Superpower. Any bulky ghost can put a stop to this. Separately, because they are dependent on a physical attack for boosting, they are susceptible to flame body, rocky helmet, etc. which can disrupt an attempt at a sweep. Skymin can break through bulky ghosts, even gholdengo, with Leaf Storm spam.

Defense / Pivot

Torn-T!Shaymin-Sky @ HeavyDutyBoots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Hurricane

Squak!Shaymin-Sky @ HeavyDutyBoots
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Roost
- Hurricane
- Parting Shot

I've not seen anyone use these sets but I think they have a niche purely as a check against to most dominant wall breaker in the tier, Urshifu-Water. That thing is so strong that Water Absorb Annihilape gets regular usage when otherwise that would be considered a shitmon. Fast taunt also acts as a stallbreaker.

 

[sheepie]

FINALLY GOT RECS
Okay, so skymin is broken yes, but this has got to be my single worst experience on any ladder ever. First off, this format is just very unfun to play, everything feels unfair and not fun to use or play. I hate it, and for me to enjoy it it needs a lot of tiering work, but that's not really my place to say. Also, everyone on ladder was running either stupidyl boring stall, or just hax infested offense. And more then that, there was so much salt. It took me 5 different accounts to get recs cause i kept on getting haxed/tilted.
Anyways that's enough of my yap, i will be voting: BAN.

 

[EtherealLouser]

First time completing suspect test reqs

Dunno how to feel about Shaymin-Sky. The mixed sets beat the RegenVesters but thud into common physical answers like Corviknight, Skarmory, and Iron Hands, while the special sets are blanked by the aforementioned RegenVesters. The current meta right now is favoring bulky playstyles over offensive ones, which Shaymin doesn't really match up into. I will still lean Ban though: its speed tier is a bit much and it does put a lot of pressure on offensive archetypes.