2 Things.Survey Results
Sorry for the delay but survey results are here! This time around 49 people responded to the survey, as always thanks to all those that gave their valuable feedback in the survey!
Average Enjoyability: 7.02/10
Average enjoyability has improved moderately from the last time it was polled (6.45) which is a good figure to see though still shows there is still room for potential improvement.
Average Competitiveness: 6.69/10
Average feelings about competitiveness has dropped moderately from the last time it was polled (7.34) which is rather concerning though interestingly enough the feelings for enjoyability and competitiveness have swapped around since the last survey which could perhaps be due to the larger pool of players answering this time around.
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While there is rather lukewarm support for action against Zamazenta with 43% of people supporting tiering action against Zamazenta, there is a larger 51% of people that do not support any form of tiering action against Zamazenta and consider it mostly balanced. Given especially it has already been suspected in the past and failed to pass without any stronger support there wont be any action against Zamazenta for the foreseeable future.
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The majority of people do not support tiering action against Chien-Pao (57%) with only 39% supporting some form of tiering action against Chien-Pao so tiering action against Chien-Pao is unlikely for now.
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Deoxys-S was the main focus of recent discussion, support is mostly split with 45% of people supporting tiering action against Deoxys-S while 43% of people oppose tiering action against Deoxys-Speed. While Deoxys-S roughly has the most substantial support on the survey support is still somewhat weak with still less than half of the playerbase supporting some form of tiering action against Deo-S and there being a lack of significant discussion so no immediate action has been taken.
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There is little support for any tiering action against Gholdengo so no tiering action has been taken against Gholdengo and it seems likely to stay that way for the near future without any significant change.
Lugia (4): Lugia has been brought up a few times recently and also in past surveys as a potential unban due to its vulnerable typing and being a very predictable mon with only CM as a viable set. This being said the concerns that were laid out before still apply, using comparisons with Cresselia, it's bulkier, stronger and faster with a variety of sets it can abuse to CM cheese past teams (Unaware, Fluffy, PSalt, Vabs, MG, etc). While arguably not broken it's not a presence that would be appreciated in the meta and without any significant support it's unlikely ever not to be freed.
Roaring Moon (3): Roaring Moon has historically been a point of contention but has failed to gain any significant traction for tiering action when discussed in the past with the plethora of meta staples that exist to check the mon currently (Zamazenta, Tusk, Corviknight, Iron Hands, Primarina, etc*) At a high level even it as started to wane a bit in popularity with its usage having dropped off slightly in OMPL and there definitely been variation in structure away from RMoon even if it remains fairly dominant. Tiering action is unlikely against the mon for the forseeable future.
Aerilate (3): The main issue with an Aerilate ban is it quite unfeasible with currently tiering policy in place, with only Dragonite and Noivern having been banned primarily due to Aerilate and that can be pretty easily identified as due to their exceptional qualities (Extreme Speed + boosting + coverage + bulk, Boomburst + Speed) as other Aerilate abusers are quite rare and niche (Landorus, Minior) and definitely not problematic.
Enamorus (3): Another contentious ban that has been talked about in the background for a while, while the mon might find itself more balanced in a faster and more aggressive BO focused meta compared to the meta it was initially banned in it can also punish very severely these teams very loosely constructed defensive cores and just most defensive cores in the meta in general with SFLO Moonblast, Play Rough, Earth Power, Mystical Fire basically granting it perfect coverage for everything bar Moltres/WBB Corviknight. The speed tier while not great is still good in outpacing all the defensive pieces and other mons such as Zapdos/Iron Crown and its typing does let it leverage opportunities against faster staples such as CB Zamazenta and Roaring Moon.Greater expression in the Regen slot and SpD cores has been prominent recently and introducing a pretty hard punish and centralising offensive threat sounds undesirable to the meta. Without any significant support/justification it'll likely be relegated to the banlist for the foreseeable future.
Well-Baked Body (3): WBB is a uniquely punishing ability compared to its other immunity counterparts which themselves can be somewhat controversial without the potential sweeping bonus. For now there is no immediate action planned as WBB's punish is still quite rare to see pull off wins with its use on more passive mons prevalent such as Landorus and Corviknight but it's something worth looking at in the future if it ever becomes more prominent on more setup based sets.
Ceruledge (2): Ceruledge was only recently banned via suspect and there is little reason to unban it so soon after its suspect with the meta remaining still rather stable and no significant negative detriment seen after its ban.
Giratina (2): Giratina retains similar issues to Lugia with its great bulk and CM setup potential making it far more likely to be an unhealthy element to the meta with the checks it could force, while adding hazard removal options would be interesting its ability to also eat ungodly hits and status back with Wisp makes it quite fearsome so unlikely to be suspected in the future with the little support it has right now.
Dragonite (2): Dragonite was suspected quite a while ago now with a fair bit of tiering action having happened since then and while perception of the meta has not significantly changed post its bans it doesn't necessarily mean Dragonite being banned was a mistake and can be attributed to other reasons. The reasons it was initially banned still remain (constricting effect with strong priority + setup + coverage) that would seem to still greatly punish a lot of existing structures, without any significant support or discussion justifying its reintroduction it is unlikely Dragonite will be suspected back into the tier.
Iron Moth (2): Iron Moth has become more suspect in recent months with its strong Hadron Engine set that's able to ravage quite a few cores with its large coverage movepool. However the usage of the set is still limited and sets such as WBB Treads, Lando and Vest Hands still appear as checks while also limited by its speed and fragility. While worth looking at, for now the limited usage and checks that are present mean no tiering action will occur for the near future.
Primal Weather (1): Primal Weather's centralising effect was brought up as reason for concern. This is somewhat true given its stronger Amp, but the lack of amp to coverage and presence of many immunities and resists in the meta (many reasonable outside of checking Primordial Weather) makes it hard to justify any action against the core dynamic duo of abilities especially when looking at their abusers which are quite weak with only PSea Primarina and the Ogerpons really being notable with both being somewhat niche.
Beads of Ruin (1): Beads has the same amping effect as other damage-amp abilities such as Hadron Engine, SF, Adapt, etc* and is in fact largely outclassed by them so Beads of Ruin will not see any tiering action.
Brambleghast (1): Brambleghast was only a very recent phenomena in the meta, while quite strong the meta hasn't had much time to adapt to it and its lack of flexibility, extreme frailty, needing prediction, middling speed-tiers and strength added on to checks such as RMoon, Gambit, Intim Corv means it's very unlikely to see any tiering action and it being more reasonable just to see how the meta adapts to its rising usage given it does rely quite a bit on exploiting meta trends.
Regigigas (1): While it lacks the reliable recovery, setup options and PHeal its extremely broken cousin Slaking used to get itself banned, Regigigas still is a very large statball with an array of coverage options with KOff, FPunch, EQ, IPunch and TWave that could very conceivably make any Guts/SoR set very troublesome all round and so is not being considered bar any significant support and justification.
Blood-Moon (1): Blood-Moon while quite a potent mon and boasting a large variety of abilities to leverage to abuse such as Fluffy, Water Absorb, Steam Engine, Unaware and so on it still lacks any significant usage to justify any tiering action which can likely be attributed to checks such as EE Ghold and various revenge-killers against any set even if not entirely reliable due to its ability. Without any significant showing or support no tiering action is going to occur.
Volcarona (1): Volcarona was somewhat recently tiered and there doesn't appear to be any good reason to reintroduce the mon that would punish any diversification in SpD cores that are already constricted especially since ones of its checks, Ceruledge, was also banned afterwards.
Flame Body (1): While annoying due to the punish and the RNG-dependent mechanic which is frustrating and a non-ideal part of the meta, it is a decidedly non-broken ability given the tradeoff to another defensive-amping ability such as immunities/RegenVest/Intimidate/Fluffy/MG for a rather inconsistent trigger with it only seeing niche usage on Stall.
Corviknight (1): Removing one of the tiers most prominent defensive glues and rare removal options would be a decidedly poor decision. The usage while extremely high is only due to this role compression and there exists many ways to break any of its sets with it being vulnerable to chip and having mediocre bulk. A ban is not happening.
Ogerpon-H/W (1): Both Ogerpons have only seen niche usage and so tiering action is hard to justify already. While the lack of contact and Primordial Weather amped Cudgels can be annoying to some structures many resists such as RMoon/Moltres/Zapdos and even neutral checks such as Intim Corv/Pecharunt are prominent so tiering action against these mons is unlikely.
Gouging Fire (1): The mon was suspected quite a long time ago now but there isn't any reason presented to justify introducing it again to the meta with its DDance sets still seeming very terrifyingly powerful into most of the meta still. While physdef Prima does seem a decent new check, Gouging can still leverage its bulk to beat it pretty easily if it comes in on a DDance like it does to many mons. Unlikely to ever see any tiering action without any significant shakeup.
Sneasler (1): Sneasler has been discussed a bit before, a few new checks have been introduced/developed since its ban that could make it more reasonable to deal with, most notably being Pecharunt and Fluffy Landorus but these aren't even that secure checks given it has Throat Chop coverage and Gunk Shot bypasses Fluffy and can do significant amounts barring even the centralising effect the mon would likely to have with its strength and amazing speed tier and also the additional frustrating element of Dire Claw hax. Wont see tiering action for the forseeable future without any significant push.
Skymin (1): Skymin has also been discussed a few times before and generally it has come to the same conclusion of being a bit too powerful and unhealthy in its centralising effect on the meta. With its great speed tier and very powerful Seed Flare it would decimate many of the SpD cores present that rely on the conventional RegenVest Waters and with Tinted Lens it can easily decimate even checks like RegenVest Roaring Moon and Physdef Corviknight with a -2 drop or slight chip (even putting Moltres in range as well) as well as having other options such as SubSeed and BoR that all in their own right could pressure cores a lot. Very unlikely to see the light of day unless people really want it for some reason as it borders the line of being straight up broken and really unhealthy.
Annihilape (1): Annihilape was suspected quite the while ago but the suspect itself was quite decisive. While it does lack Triage as a set the rest of its bulky setup sets remain that would still pretty easily terrorise a lot of defensive cores still with Rage Fist, especially given its defensive profile would be quite useful against meta staple Zamazenta and the large reliance on Fluffy for most teams. Unlikely to see another resuspect without some significant support and justification this time around.
Noivern (1): Like the last survey around all that has to be said about Noivern is that Specs Aerilate Boomburst + its great speed tier would easily crack open the majority of SpD cores around and would pose a clear unhealthy centralising effect in the builder to force SpD resists. No support/reason has been given since the last time it was brought up and it remains the same, no tiering action is planned for Noivern unless something significant changes.
Walking Wake (1): Walking Wake was suspected nearly a year ago now and there was reasoning given that Walking Wake would struggle more in the current meta with its more aggressive pace and Wake's speed tier + prominence of Primarina. This being said it remains unlikely that Walking Wake will ever be freed, its speed tier is still sufficient to leverage against most defensive cores (bar Scarf) (also Brambleghast/Mamo pull this off fine being even slower and having zero defensive utility while Wake has abundant defensive utility that it can leverage with its typing) and even with the prominence of Primarina it can still get Knocked and put into 2HKO range of Wake pretty easily. Given the clear centralising effect Wake had with the severe dropoff in hard checks such as Empoleon and Wabs Heatran after its ban it is unlikely Wake will ever be reintroduced bar some significant changes/support.
1 Immunity Complex Ban (1): A fairly convoluted complex ban especially for something that isn't particularly problematic is not going to fly under the current tiering framework ever.
BDrum Ban + Triage Unban (1): The tiering framework that prevented this going through initially is still in place and without it ever changing this will never fly, barring any discussion around whether it's worth freeing Triage in the first place.
"Drastically Lower Power Level" (1): This proposal is very vague and any significant change involving multiple bans isn't going to happen without very significant justification which the proposal lacks given the relatively stable levels of enjoyment and the also length of time of the stability in the meta being a reasonable contributor to decay in enjoyment as well.
1. Hell yeah, brambleghast is real, I knew it from the start.
2. Deo S is weird. Every time it comes in its super scary. It could and can lead 6-0 teams and has like no reliable defensive counter. On the other hand, its super frail, a hard momentum sink when it runs into something it can't hit and sometimes prediction reliant.
Having played it a bunch, it's such a hit or miss mon. Expanding force sets are absolutely horrifying because they cut off priority as a check.
If it had 10 or 15 more base spaatk I'd be broken but as it stands it suffers from often being just short of the ohko against healthy mons.
It does have one more thing that I feel is too underexplored: Running it as a wallbreaker. A set of (sflo) Psychic, knock off, ice beam and whatever 4th move you fancy is very good at breaking defensive teams and still retains its power to pressure offense. Just STAB psychic does 70+ to basically any non defensive mon and gives the player an alternative wincon in those matchups.
