Discuss any changes or small edits you'd like to see in uploaded analyses.
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Resource 1v1 Old Gens Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Ginger Princess
- Start date
Hey. I think it's about time someone brings up that changes need to be made with the ORAS analyses project.
ORAS analyses have been extremely inactive since its inception earlier this year. Of course, some of this lack of activity is to be expected - old generation analyses projects generally tend to be less active than their current-generation counterparts - but it's certainly concerning to see that since the middle of June, we've only had one analysis uploaded, three that have been achieved due to waning interest, and six that have been in WIP for over two months. To add on to this already concerning metric, no one has reserved a single analysis since late July.
Besides the point I mentioned before, I also feel that we should have started out with mini analyses, and then progressed to fulls when every notable pokemon had an analysis on-site. Sure, mini analyses have been mainly used this generation because of the DLC drops, but it has become quite evident that minis are preferred by a large amount of the community due to the lesser workload for all parties, allowing for content to be uploaded quickly instead of sitting for months on end. I understand that people like Alakazam predominantly prefer analyses be done in full, but its become obvious that it's not allowing content to be uploaded in any reasonable timeframe. When the whole entire point of analyses is to provide content on the dex to help people understand a metagame and what we're doing right now is inefficient at best, something needs to change.
As always, thanks for reading, and have a nice day. Mubs out.
ORAS analyses have been extremely inactive since its inception earlier this year. Of course, some of this lack of activity is to be expected - old generation analyses projects generally tend to be less active than their current-generation counterparts - but it's certainly concerning to see that since the middle of June, we've only had one analysis uploaded, three that have been achieved due to waning interest, and six that have been in WIP for over two months. To add on to this already concerning metric, no one has reserved a single analysis since late July.
Besides the point I mentioned before, I also feel that we should have started out with mini analyses, and then progressed to fulls when every notable pokemon had an analysis on-site. Sure, mini analyses have been mainly used this generation because of the DLC drops, but it has become quite evident that minis are preferred by a large amount of the community due to the lesser workload for all parties, allowing for content to be uploaded quickly instead of sitting for months on end. I understand that people like Alakazam predominantly prefer analyses be done in full, but its become obvious that it's not allowing content to be uploaded in any reasonable timeframe. When the whole entire point of analyses is to provide content on the dex to help people understand a metagame and what we're doing right now is inefficient at best, something needs to change.
As always, thanks for reading, and have a nice day. Mubs out.
I agree with your overarching point that motivation for ORAS analyses aren't as high as they could be. Compared to the current Gen and even SM, the pool of qualified, motivated players who want to actually write for ORAS is low. However, I wouldn't say that the solution to this would be to dumb down analyses in order to attract less interested writers.
Fulls are used when a metagame has moved into a place of development where it is clear that no new metagame-altering decisions are going to be made, and where there has been sufficient time passed for the most viable techs to have been developed and optimized. Minis, as they are without alteration, are designed specifically to be killed off later and replaced by only discussing one set at a time and being as safe as possible with the information provided, only really talking about moves and weaknesses/teammates to beat general weaknesses. The first wave of mini analyses had huge gaps in relevant information per set, and actually describing when and where a Pokemon could be used was not really possible - even just saying 'use x mon against these types of Pokemon' would usually have exceptions and would usually have matchups that required more explanation.
We had to fix this issue by literally getting permission to just completely recreate what a mini actually was in 1v1 specifically, because we quickly found out as a writing scene and as QC scene that trying to make minis work as they normally exist and provide good information was basically impossible, and you would essentially be lying through omission about the Pokemon's actual abilities by not informing people on relevant matchups. However, the new 1v1-style minis are basically just as much work as a 1 set full (without the Overview and Checks and Counters section, but those are always free, anyway), just missing the formatting that organizes and separates everything into easy to read bites.
There also was the issue of minis creating an environment where writers would flock to easy-to-write 252/252 4 attack sets of a Pokemon while avoiding the top tier sets that required more work. SubDisable Dragapult is an example, with that set existing basically since the beginning of SS and never getting a mini analysis completed. This basically makes mini formats the way to ignore what's actually good at first and just grind out mindless attacking sets for badges.
However, the idea of minis does bring up the interesting possibility of opening up 1v1 style minis for the lower-ranked Pokemon in a given Old Gen, that don't necessarily require the same level of thought, and won't have nearly as strong of a place in the metagame to require the work needed for a full analysis. Taking SM as an example, we have a shitton of C/C-/D ranked Pokemon that are hardly ever used anymore in tournament, but still are technically viable as niche options or w/ever. I think its pretty safe to say that no one is really going to care enough to write a full analysis on a mon like Chesnaught, nor will they care if the analysis on Chesnaught is missing information on how it handles top-level threats (because lower ranked Pokemon couldn't handle most top level threats, period), so maybe doing a 1v1-style mini would be the way to go.
Another solution would be instead to focus on uploading sample sets onto the dex first so that *something* is there. I believe this was attempted with ORAS, but the set compendium available was too outdated/unoptimized/had inexplicable EVs/missing viable sets, that we decided to simply start with fulls and optimize sets as they came along. Maybe it would have been best to instead bite the bullet and create sample sets before this process began, though there's no reason we can't start them now.
Anyway, minis should be avoided like the plague. They actively withhold information and encourage the best sets in a metagame to be ignored. Changing them to fix these problems just creates Full analyses again, workload wise. At least with the Fulls they're properly organized, instead of forcing a reader to comb through everything to find the one specific part they care about. They could only be used, imo, in cases where the potential information missed out would be mitigated by the lack of actual use for a Pokemon. But if you want to fix either the timeframe of how quickly writers write, or actually getting community interest in writing ORAS, there are other ways that this can be pursued.
if there’s a single living breathing soul out there who still does sm analysis stuff please lmk. there’s a lot of things that should be updated to be more in line with what the meta actually looks like today.
here’s some sets i wanna see added / adjusted / removed; this is by no means everything but i think this is a great start.
CURRENT SET:
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Atk / 144 SpD / 96 Spe
Careful Nature
- Flame Charge
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
MY ADJUSTMENT:
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
- Substitute / Will-O-Wisp
- Dragon Dance / Flame Charge / Will-O-Wisp
i feel like this one is self-explanatory, sub is the most common set by far now and is the best because of how many 50/50s / wins it can pull off against mons like lele, zeraora, mvenu, togekiss, pz, etc. that the slow bulky one just cannot beat. DD > flame charge because it gives a better chance against other zards, but i think flame charge is almost equally as useful. 252 speed is super important for the mirror and giving you better odds vs lele & pz.
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Magearna @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 232 HP / 80 Def / 132 SpA
Modest Nature
- Heart Swap
- Fleur Cannon
- Pain Split
- Thunder Wave
i would say this set is better than standard fairium. WP and these EVs allow magearna to beat dragonite 100% of the time no matter the set. it also makes it beat hp fire gren / pz, and a lot of things with fire coverage. heart swap may seem confusing on a set with WP but the matchups where wp is used are not the ones where heart swap is used. HS lets it beat necrozma, manaphy, pz, meloetta, mega gardevoir, set-up without taunt in general. Twave is important 1) for hax purposes cause magearna doesnt rly need a fourth move but 2) so you have better control of your heart swap and move first: just watch this replay and youll understand https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-2158192872?p2 .
ik this is a new set im willing to explain it more on discord its definitely good enough to be a main set though message me @bradothy
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Zeraora @ Choice Band
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Iron Tail
- Outrage / Close Combat
- Fire Punch / Close Combat
i feel like this doesn’t need any explanation. CB zera is definitely on par with mixed electrium and better than physical electrium (i think an argument can even be made atp to delete phys electrium)
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Manaphy @ Iapapa / Chesto Berry
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rest
- Acid Armor
- Calm Mind
- Scald
another set that i dont think needs explanation. its been popping off in tours for a while now and is clearly on par / even better than tail glow.
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Serperior @ Psychium Z
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Leaf Storm
- Synthesis
z screns serp does better against mgarde, lele, and pz mainly, while only losing on a few matchups that seed serp gets. therefore i think it should be a main set.
ADJUST SET
Garchomp @ Groundium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Laser Focus
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Substitute
laser focus beats clef, quag, and stall necrozma while having little to no opportunity cost for not using SD (if there is some i mightve missed it, but scrolling through the vr makes it seem like lf is jus better, lmk if i did tho)
ADJUST
Crustle) @ Normalium Z / Rockium Z / Figy Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rock Wrecker
- Rock Blast
- Counter / Earthquake
normalium Z is just as good as rockium if not better; z shell smash restores stats to 0 so you get around intimidate, rock tomb / icy wind, and lets you bypass taunt. this lets you beat tapu fini, landorus-t, tapu lele, victini(no glaciate/wisp 50/50), and heatran just to name a few.
figy, while less useful, is still viable enough to be a main item because it beats dnite 100% of the time (except u click counter vs scarf) and prim cause of aqua jet not doing enough.
and here’s my hot take:
ADD TO ANALYSIS
fadingmemory (Crustle) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 72 Def / 188 SpD
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Confide
- Rest
- Rock Slide
an actually good stall mon because it gets shell armor. the fact that it can bluff shell smash means a lot of mons react differently to it in fear of counter / sturdy which turns stuff that you should normally lose to into wins (gren, groundz garchomp/golem/donphan). What it beats that reg crustle can’t: mega alt, ground z garchomp, zyg, clef, quag, mega ttar. im probably underrating this set and missing stuff; it’s super super good
same with the WP magearna, i know this is a new set so if you’re not convinced on its viability just dm me on cord i can explain a lot better @bradothy
ADD / REPLACE AIR BALLOON
Heatran @ Firium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Metal Sound
- Overheat
- Ancient Power / Earth Power
- Taunt / Earth Power
this is the only real non-grassium set, air balloon on the analysis heatran set is kinda a filler item since it’s super unreliable against grounds. max defense and hp lets this beat mega metagross reliably which air balloon cannot do. it also helps it deal with zardx. nothing else to say about it really as its just an upgrade to air balloon.
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Mirror Coat / Hyper Beam
on par with elec z zone, trades some stallbreaking capability for beating garchomp, landot, zygarde, better mega alt mu, and naganadel (ik elec z can run mirror coat but it kinda wants tect).
i know actually implementing these sets is a lot harder than just saying they need to be added, and i’m willing to help with revamping analyses if anyone with the power to is interested (message me @bradothy). i was qc and council from 2019-2022 and still actively play / build the tier.
here’s some sets i wanna see added / adjusted / removed; this is by no means everything but i think this is a great start.
CURRENT SET:
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Atk / 144 SpD / 96 Spe
Careful Nature
- Flame Charge
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
MY ADJUSTMENT:
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Flare Blitz
- Substitute / Will-O-Wisp
- Dragon Dance / Flame Charge / Will-O-Wisp
i feel like this one is self-explanatory, sub is the most common set by far now and is the best because of how many 50/50s / wins it can pull off against mons like lele, zeraora, mvenu, togekiss, pz, etc. that the slow bulky one just cannot beat. DD > flame charge because it gives a better chance against other zards, but i think flame charge is almost equally as useful. 252 speed is super important for the mirror and giving you better odds vs lele & pz.
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Magearna @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 232 HP / 80 Def / 132 SpA
Modest Nature
- Heart Swap
- Fleur Cannon
- Pain Split
- Thunder Wave
i would say this set is better than standard fairium. WP and these EVs allow magearna to beat dragonite 100% of the time no matter the set. it also makes it beat hp fire gren / pz, and a lot of things with fire coverage. heart swap may seem confusing on a set with WP but the matchups where wp is used are not the ones where heart swap is used. HS lets it beat necrozma, manaphy, pz, meloetta, mega gardevoir, set-up without taunt in general. Twave is important 1) for hax purposes cause magearna doesnt rly need a fourth move but 2) so you have better control of your heart swap and move first: just watch this replay and youll understand https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-2158192872?p2 .
ik this is a new set im willing to explain it more on discord its definitely good enough to be a main set though message me @bradothy
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Zeraora @ Choice Band
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Iron Tail
- Outrage / Close Combat
- Fire Punch / Close Combat
i feel like this doesn’t need any explanation. CB zera is definitely on par with mixed electrium and better than physical electrium (i think an argument can even be made atp to delete phys electrium)
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Manaphy @ Iapapa / Chesto Berry
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rest
- Acid Armor
- Calm Mind
- Scald
another set that i dont think needs explanation. its been popping off in tours for a while now and is clearly on par / even better than tail glow.
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Serperior @ Psychium Z
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Leaf Storm
- Synthesis
z screns serp does better against mgarde, lele, and pz mainly, while only losing on a few matchups that seed serp gets. therefore i think it should be a main set.
ADJUST SET
Garchomp @ Groundium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Laser Focus
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Substitute
laser focus beats clef, quag, and stall necrozma while having little to no opportunity cost for not using SD (if there is some i mightve missed it, but scrolling through the vr makes it seem like lf is jus better, lmk if i did tho)
ADJUST
Crustle) @ Normalium Z / Rockium Z / Figy Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rock Wrecker
- Rock Blast
- Counter / Earthquake
normalium Z is just as good as rockium if not better; z shell smash restores stats to 0 so you get around intimidate, rock tomb / icy wind, and lets you bypass taunt. this lets you beat tapu fini, landorus-t, tapu lele, victini(no glaciate/wisp 50/50), and heatran just to name a few.
figy, while less useful, is still viable enough to be a main item because it beats dnite 100% of the time (except u click counter vs scarf) and prim cause of aqua jet not doing enough.
and here’s my hot take:
ADD TO ANALYSIS
fadingmemory (Crustle) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 72 Def / 188 SpD
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Confide
- Rest
- Rock Slide
an actually good stall mon because it gets shell armor. the fact that it can bluff shell smash means a lot of mons react differently to it in fear of counter / sturdy which turns stuff that you should normally lose to into wins (gren, groundz garchomp/golem/donphan). What it beats that reg crustle can’t: mega alt, ground z garchomp, zyg, clef, quag, mega ttar. im probably underrating this set and missing stuff; it’s super super good
same with the WP magearna, i know this is a new set so if you’re not convinced on its viability just dm me on cord i can explain a lot better @bradothy
ADD / REPLACE AIR BALLOON
Heatran @ Firium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Metal Sound
- Overheat
- Ancient Power / Earth Power
- Taunt / Earth Power
this is the only real non-grassium set, air balloon on the analysis heatran set is kinda a filler item since it’s super unreliable against grounds. max defense and hp lets this beat mega metagross reliably which air balloon cannot do. it also helps it deal with zardx. nothing else to say about it really as its just an upgrade to air balloon.
ADD TO ANALYSIS
Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Mirror Coat / Hyper Beam
on par with elec z zone, trades some stallbreaking capability for beating garchomp, landot, zygarde, better mega alt mu, and naganadel (ik elec z can run mirror coat but it kinda wants tect).
i know actually implementing these sets is a lot harder than just saying they need to be added, and i’m willing to help with revamping analyses if anyone with the power to is interested (message me @bradothy). i was qc and council from 2019-2022 and still actively play / build the tier.
this is just ideas for other stuff to add to the analyses that im not as confident on (or just didnt feel like writing about). Obviously if this project picks up steam i can go more in depth on them, just don’t want to write a whole lot for no reason:
*faster mgyara > current set
*stall zhaze dnite (this is not a joke, genuinely really good set) as a main set
*lorb / poisonium gren as a main set
*faster ice punch mmeta > current set (slow tpunch mmeta is balls, mgyara is not a good enough justification for how slow it is
*custap pz and victini as main sets (i think in general custap is pretty underrated)
*snatch, laser focus, and punishment added as move options on mega mawile
*grass Z volcarona as a main set
*sub endeavor mega diancie as a main set
*laser focus as a move option on mega lopunny
*faster mgyara > current set
*stall zhaze dnite (this is not a joke, genuinely really good set) as a main set
*lorb / poisonium gren as a main set
*faster ice punch mmeta > current set (slow tpunch mmeta is balls, mgyara is not a good enough justification for how slow it is
*custap pz and victini as main sets (i think in general custap is pretty underrated)
*snatch, laser focus, and punishment added as move options on mega mawile
*grass Z volcarona as a main set
*sub endeavor mega diancie as a main set
*laser focus as a move option on mega lopunny
NOTE: when I refer to “oldgen analyses” anywhere in this post, I am referring to every gen BEFORE ss. Idk how you do it ss but keep it up 
————————————————————
After pouring my heart out into my previous post and absolutely nothing changing, I’ve realized that oldgen analyses are a lost cause. They’re extremely challenging to update (I’d give an estimate that >95% of current SM sets need revision), the QC teams are dead, and nobody seems to want to write them. It’s not like this is without reason, too: analysis writing is a long and arduous process that often ends up oversaturating real, useful information with low-quality usage tips and fluff language. And there’s a good chance that once the analysis is finished, it becomes irrelevant in 6 months because of a ban or meta shifts.
So what do we do about this?
I think that the best option for oldgens is to merge the analysis sets with the sets comp sets. Sets comps see loads more activity and are far more useful than analyses for the large majority of users:
(even though this is from 2022 it’s not like anything has significantly changed—sets comp makes up more than half the votes and analyses (purple) arent even visible LOL)
Every gen also either has a full sets comp with EV descriptions or is diligently working towards one. This would also allow us to upload analyses for gens even before BW like DPP and ADV without much effort.
The Format:
Here’s an example analysis that I made purely from taking information from the set and set description in the SM set comp; took me about two minutes to polish up:
This would need one GP check max (no QCs because the information should be correct if it’s in the set comp hopefully…) so it’d be extremely easy to finish, meaning transferring set comp sets to uploaded analyses would take very little effort.
What about the already uploaded analyses?:
Pretty much all of the SM VR above B- has an uploaded analysis. This is a LOT of writing that would go to waste if we replaced it all, but, I think it’s necessary, because, as I said earlier, a LOT of analyses need updating. I would say pretty much every single SM VR mon that has an analysis has something that needs to be fixed or added. So while I feel bad about deleting all the content that people put hard work into, it’s definitely necessary for keeping users informed with the most up-to-date sets and keeping analyses relevant. So I say nix ‘em all and start from scratch. I also rewrote a bunch of ORAS analyses post-Zard ban but I won’t get hurt if you guys delete them :).
Conclusion?:
* Archive all oldgens analyses
* Replace these with updated sets comp sets and small set descriptions
- Will need no QC checks and only one GP check
* Thrive
* Maybe people will start using analyses again?
————————————————————
After pouring my heart out into my previous post and absolutely nothing changing, I’ve realized that oldgen analyses are a lost cause. They’re extremely challenging to update (I’d give an estimate that >95% of current SM sets need revision), the QC teams are dead, and nobody seems to want to write them. It’s not like this is without reason, too: analysis writing is a long and arduous process that often ends up oversaturating real, useful information with low-quality usage tips and fluff language. And there’s a good chance that once the analysis is finished, it becomes irrelevant in 6 months because of a ban or meta shifts.
So what do we do about this?
I think that the best option for oldgens is to merge the analysis sets with the sets comp sets. Sets comps see loads more activity and are far more useful than analyses for the large majority of users:
(even though this is from 2022 it’s not like anything has significantly changed—sets comp makes up more than half the votes and analyses (purple) arent even visible LOL)
Every gen also either has a full sets comp with EV descriptions or is diligently working towards one. This would also allow us to upload analyses for gens even before BW like DPP and ADV without much effort.
The Format:
Here’s an example analysis that I made purely from taking information from the set and set description in the SM set comp; took me about two minutes to polish up:
Choice Band (Zeraora) @ Choice Band
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Iron Tail / Close Combat
- Fire Punch / Close Combat
- Outrage / Close Combat
A Jolly nature allows Zeraora to outspeed Mega Lopunny and Modest Choice Scarf Porygon-Z. Adamant can instead be used to boost Zeraora’s power. Iron Tail beats Fairy-types like Mega Gardevoir and Tapu Lele. Outrage helps against Dragon-types like Mega Charizard X and Garchomp. Fire Punch helps with Serperior (more reliable with Adamant) and Genesect. Close Combat helps against Normalium Z Porygon-Z and Heatran.
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Iron Tail / Close Combat
- Fire Punch / Close Combat
- Outrage / Close Combat
A Jolly nature allows Zeraora to outspeed Mega Lopunny and Modest Choice Scarf Porygon-Z. Adamant can instead be used to boost Zeraora’s power. Iron Tail beats Fairy-types like Mega Gardevoir and Tapu Lele. Outrage helps against Dragon-types like Mega Charizard X and Garchomp. Fire Punch helps with Serperior (more reliable with Adamant) and Genesect. Close Combat helps against Normalium Z Porygon-Z and Heatran.
This would need one GP check max (no QCs because the information should be correct if it’s in the set comp hopefully…) so it’d be extremely easy to finish, meaning transferring set comp sets to uploaded analyses would take very little effort.
What about the already uploaded analyses?:
Pretty much all of the SM VR above B- has an uploaded analysis. This is a LOT of writing that would go to waste if we replaced it all, but, I think it’s necessary, because, as I said earlier, a LOT of analyses need updating. I would say pretty much every single SM VR mon that has an analysis has something that needs to be fixed or added. So while I feel bad about deleting all the content that people put hard work into, it’s definitely necessary for keeping users informed with the most up-to-date sets and keeping analyses relevant. So I say nix ‘em all and start from scratch. I also rewrote a bunch of ORAS analyses post-Zard ban but I won’t get hurt if you guys delete them :).
Conclusion?:
* Archive all oldgens analyses
* Replace these with updated sets comp sets and small set descriptions
- Will need no QC checks and only one GP check
* Thrive
* Maybe people will start using analyses again?
I like the above, probably should still go through a QC person but that doesn't have be through the super formal post-reply-edit cycle, could just be a discord conversation with someone on council or w/e
also means that sets that are actually used are in the damage calc
also means that sets that are actually used are in the damage calc
Hi sorry, a lot of this is on me for not communicating. I've had a long summer with regards to uni and stuff. I also have my last final in 50 mins and am getting some hw done atm so this won't be long but I'll make another post regarding this after I'm done with that stuff tonight provided I have energy afterwards.
Hi there, this is actually my plan right now. I'm working on doing this for all oldgens from DPP to SM (SS already has this) and uh yeah. I've also directed the respective leaders of those old gens to try to get me sets compendiums with EV explanations as soon as possible. Some gens like BW are doing updates, as we're not many days past the end of PL, so I'll be doing updates for those once I get them.
A lot of things that were mentioned are currently in the works, but a lot of them right now are reliant on gens updating their sets compendiums right now. Old Gen Leaders have also been asked to provide C&C staff with a changelog for whenever they update their compendium, so calc should only lag a few days behind any sets compendium updates going forward. This will end up being a bit of a slow process given both that we are waiting on Old Gen Councils to act right now and that updating sets does take a good bit of manual work from C&C staff, but I'm trying to get a lot of this done by the beginning of World Cup Pools.
Hi there, this is actually my plan right now. I'm working on doing this for all oldgens from DPP to SM (SS already has this) and uh yeah. I've also directed the respective leaders of those old gens to try to get me sets compendiums with EV explanations as soon as possible. Some gens like BW are doing updates, as we're not many days past the end of PL, so I'll be doing updates for those once I get them.
This isn't in the books as a general thing. However, some things that will need to be archived will be archived.
Set descriptions will need QC / GP, but I'd rather direct people to the sets compendium to figure out the benchmarks and stuff, as it roughly does the same thing in a more unofficial format.
A lot of things that were mentioned are currently in the works, but a lot of them right now are reliant on gens updating their sets compendiums right now. Old Gen Leaders have also been asked to provide C&C staff with a changelog for whenever they update their compendium, so calc should only lag a few days behind any sets compendium updates going forward. This will end up being a bit of a slow process given both that we are waiting on Old Gen Councils to act right now and that updating sets does take a good bit of manual work from C&C staff, but I'm trying to get a lot of this done by the beginning of World Cup Pools.
I think there is too little incentive to work on setcomps as is. While I don't condone badgewhoring it is undeniable that many people work on analyses in hope that they will be badged for their work. Most setcomp work happens in discords where there is no permanent record or metric of your contributions. All of my contributions to the SS setcomp are only known by other people working on the setcomp at the time. By writing official set descriptions on smogon, you will forever be able to quantify your contributions to resources in the tier.
I'm also in support of 1 qc - it doesn't take that long for a qc checker to read one paragraph.
This is a 1v1 forum issue not a C&C issue in a sense, as we don't really badge for that. Small set descriptions are most likely not going to be considered work that counts in a meaningful way towards a badge. Sets compendium work goes towards the Metagame Resources Contributor badge.
I agree that oldgen analyses are imperiled.
It feels like even SS, the most active oldgen, does not see consistent work being done. Any analysis requires serious work from 2 people on council (most of the time 3 people on council as they're also writing most), and I'm just not sure if you can realistically expect that to work quickly enough to stay up to date with the meta.
For SWSH analyses specifically, combining them with the set comp is probably the way forward. Plus, in my own experience writing analyses, a lot of set comp EVs/slashes do not hold up under serious scrutiny, and ideally we'd be able to quickly upgrade both in tandem. As someone who has years of experience working on both, I'd gladly step up to help integrate the two fields more (I would have to discuss the particulars with the rest of the QC team and Mishlef obviously but I'm sure we can hash something out).
Re:badgeholding. As someone who did get badged for working on the sets compendium, I think we can reflect the increased importance that the setcomp would come to occupy by being vigilant about recommending serious contributors for a ladybug badge, and by maintaining a proper credits section (would be willing to trawl through the discord channel and properly record who contributed what).
It feels like even SS, the most active oldgen, does not see consistent work being done. Any analysis requires serious work from 2 people on council (most of the time 3 people on council as they're also writing most), and I'm just not sure if you can realistically expect that to work quickly enough to stay up to date with the meta.
For SWSH analyses specifically, combining them with the set comp is probably the way forward. Plus, in my own experience writing analyses, a lot of set comp EVs/slashes do not hold up under serious scrutiny, and ideally we'd be able to quickly upgrade both in tandem. As someone who has years of experience working on both, I'd gladly step up to help integrate the two fields more (I would have to discuss the particulars with the rest of the QC team and Mishlef obviously but I'm sure we can hash something out).
Re:badgeholding. As someone who did get badged for working on the sets compendium, I think we can reflect the increased importance that the setcomp would come to occupy by being vigilant about recommending serious contributors for a ladybug badge, and by maintaining a proper credits section (would be willing to trawl through the discord channel and properly record who contributed what).
We will be doing this for all oldgens, but SS has some level of this already being done, so once the sets compendium is updated, I'll be making an effort to get it into Smogon Dex.
This isn't oldgens related, but somewhat recently, the SV sets compendium started being a project under the watch of C&C Staff due to how it was inherently linked to C&C. We haven't gotten to it yet, but we're planning on making a somewhat comprehensive way to keep track of people's contribution to the SV sets compendium. If we come up with some sort of contribution tracking for it that works very well for SV, we may think about asking it to be adopted by old gens as well. At the moment, this is just very much an idea without any significant plan made for it, so this is all far away from actually being implemented right now. We do hope to get to working on it soon, though.