Took Deoxys of the list for punishment
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Pet Mod [Gen 3] Hoenn Echoes | Slate 4 Submissions are now Open!
- Thread starter SEA
- Start date
Submissions are now closed! Thank you for submitting! The following submission are unable to be voted on:
BP's Strength Sap
Eeveeto's Razor Leaf
Gekokeso's First Impression
There will be 2 categories for submission this time, one specifically for Grass type Moves and one for overall. The submission format is a little bit changed, please follow it :3
Reminder, submit a ballot for Grass moves AND the rest of the moves (or the recharge move rework).
Voting will last about 48 hours!
BP's Strength Sap
Eeveeto's Razor Leaf
Gekokeso's First Impression
There will be 2 categories for submission this time, one specifically for Grass type Moves and one for overall. The submission format is a little bit changed, please follow it :3
Grass Type Move:
1st. x's [Move]
2nd. x's [Move]
3rd. x's [Move]
Overall Move:
1st. x's [Move]
2nd. x's [Move]
3rd. x's [Move]
Self-voting is allowed, but the highest you may place yourself is 3rd. 1st place gets 3 points, 2nd place gets 2 points, and 3rd place gets 1 point.
1st. x's [Move]
2nd. x's [Move]
3rd. x's [Move]
Overall Move:
1st. x's [Move]
2nd. x's [Move]
3rd. x's [Move]
Self-voting is allowed, but the highest you may place yourself is 3rd. 1st place gets 3 points, 2nd place gets 2 points, and 3rd place gets 1 point.
Reminder, submit a ballot for Grass moves AND the rest of the moves (or the recharge move rework).
Voting will last about 48 hours!
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1. Sadgiyev eball
2.illegal in galar soothing energy
3. Osp leaf storm
1. Error mon Doomsday Clock
2. Dastardlydwarf gravity
3. Osp aurora beam
2.illegal in galar soothing energy
3. Osp leaf storm
1. Error mon Doomsday Clock
2. Dastardlydwarf gravity
3. Osp aurora beam
Grass moves (damn, would have liked to vote here for Strength Sap):
1: Grass Pledge. Cool secondary effect and balanced distribution.
2: Leaf Storm. Nuke.
3: Energy Ball. Best out of what is left.
Non Grass moves:
1: Freeze Dry. I will do everything possible for a Hail domination.
2: Aurora Beam. Same as above. Cool effect, like Psychic Noise, but healthy, since distribution is low.
3: Dragon Tail. Self vote.
1: Grass Pledge. Cool secondary effect and balanced distribution.
2: Leaf Storm. Nuke.
3: Energy Ball. Best out of what is left.
Non Grass moves:
1: Freeze Dry. I will do everything possible for a Hail domination.
2: Aurora Beam. Same as above. Cool effect, like Psychic Noise, but healthy, since distribution is low.
3: Dragon Tail. Self vote.
1.Meteor dive
2.dragon tail
3.punishment
1.energy ball
2.jungle vines
3. Leaf storm
2.dragon tail
3.punishment
1.energy ball
2.jungle vines
3. Leaf storm
Thank you once again to everybody who voted! We have 7 total winners from this slate, and they are as follows:
Sorry for the delay! I am busy moving atm, so next slate probably won’t be until later tonight. I wanted to go ahead and close voting. Thanks for waiting!
17 points:
21 points:
12 points:Name: Aurora Beam
Type:
Base Power: 75
Accuracy: 100%
11 points:
10 points:
10 points:
And for the grass type moves, we were originally only going to take just 1. However, we have a tie! So we will be taking 2. As such, we’re going to adjust one of the move’s distribution, since they were meant to be the solo grass move added otherwise.Name: Fish and Dip
Type:
Power: -
PP: 10 (16)
Accuracy: -
21 points:
And also 21 points:
And take off Ludicolo, Abomasnow, and Exeggutor.Name: Grass Pledge
Type:
Power: 80
PP: 10 (16)
Accuracy: 100
Sorry for the delay! I am busy moving atm, so next slate probably won’t be until later tonight. I wanted to go ahead and close voting. Thanks for waiting!
Slate 4: The Gathering Storm
In a tier seemingly dominated by weather, it’s a bit ironic that dedicated Rain abusers encounter a multitude of problems. The reasons can be a decent number of things really, but there’s a few key points that they always struggle with. Latios and Latias are a giant problem, as they put a huge damper on any of the Rain boosted Water moves you’d otherwise want to click. Opposing Kyogre is also a huge roadblock to anything that wants to click Water moves, as its gigantic Sp.Def stat allows it to take just about anything with ease. Even non Thunder variants could potentially turn you into setup fodder. As for any specially offensive Pokémon, Blissey largely absorbs any Water moves you want to throw at it, and on the other end of the spectrum, all of the physical Rain abusers get stuffed by Groudon. Lastly, the swift swimmers (with the exception of basically just SD Kabutops) really struggle to find meaningful ways to bust through defense as a whole.A few notes from me about what (at least I think) you should try and do in this slate:
- Rain offense is extremely strapped for slots as is. It’s really hard to justify deviating from standard rain structures, so for an interesting (and effective) submission, think about how you would solve the above problems. The submissions should ideally help with specific problems, but fall short in the others.
- Reminder, these additions are not meant to be truly meta defining. I’m totally fine if these are slottable on Rain, but remember that we’re shooting for around A- in viability.
- The Swift Swim users as is provide next to no defensive utility (with the exception of Omastar, who is a pretty great Snorlax swap) which is part of what makes them so hard to slot. Consider how you might have a Pokémon that contributes to your team on that front.
- If aiming to break defense, think about different parts of defense that you would like to break or apply pressure to. Maybe you want a Pokémon that’s very effective at forcing in Blissey and causing some awkward interactions for it, maybe you want to focus more on a Rapid Spin option such as Tentacruel to get the edge over bulkier teams. You will naturally be not as effective vs Sun fat without some support from teammates like Snorlax, and these Pokémon should not aim to solo fat by themselves.
There are not any restrictions on what you can submit, other than the usual stuff. New Pokémon, Old Pokémon, items, etc. are all fine. Try to stay away from Kabutops and Omastar as they are largely functional.
Name: beartic
Type: fighting/ice
Stats: 130(+35)/130/80/95(+35)/80/55(+5)
Abilities: slush rush, swift swim
Full movepool: blizzard, body slam, brick break, bulk up, crunch, curse, cross chop(replaces superpower), double edge, earthquake, encore, endeavor, facade, focus punch, frustration, ice beam, ice punch, surf, low kick, protect, rest, return, roar, rock slide, sleep talk, substitute, swords dance, taunt, toxic, yawn, aerial ace, attract, bide, covet, cut, dig, dive, endure, flail, hyper beam, growl, hail, icy wind, mega kick, mega punch, metal claw, mud shot, mud slap, swagger, thief, hidden power
Role: can be used as a fast swift swimmer on rain and can also go mixed to hit groudon and other ice weak pokemon.
Checks and counters: metagross gives this guy a really hard time as does forretress, ho-oh, Lugia and Kyogre. It also has 4mss can’t run swords dance, eq, rock slide, ice beam, cross chop, hp ghost on the same set.
Name: heliolisk
Type: electric/normal
Stats: 62/55/52/115(+6)/104(+10)/115(+6)
Abilities: Solar power, dry skin
Full movepool: Agility, Attract, Camouflage, Charge, Cut, Dig, Double Team, Endure, Facade, Fire Punch, Flash, Frustration, Glare, Hidden Power, Hyper Beam, Hyper Voice, Iron Tail, Light Screen, Low Kick, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Mud-Slap, Pound, Protect, Psych Up, Quick Attack, Rain Dance, Razor Wind, Rest, Return, Rock Slide, Rock Tomb, Sandstorm, Secret Power, Shock Wave, Signal Beam, Sleep Talk, Snore, Solar Beam, Substitute, Sunny Day, Surf, Swagger, Swift, Tail Whip, Thunder, Thunder Punch, Thunder Shock, Thunder Wave, Thunderbolt, Toxic, Weather Ball, dragon claw (to replace dragon pulse), dragon tail,
Signature move: parabolic charge, same effects as before but buffed to 75bp
Role: fast electric type that can be used in both sun and rain due to its weather focused abilities.
Checks and counters: honestly I dunno I just like heliolisk. It kinda really struggles into both lax and bliss to do any damage. It needs groudon to be chipped before solar beam kos even with solar power active.
Name: turtonator
Type: fire/dragon
Stats: 95(+35)/88(+10)/135/91/105(+20)/36
Abilities: magma body (rain dish clone for sun), shell armour
Full movepool:
Attract, Block, Body Slam, Bulk Up, Curse, Double Team, Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Ember, Endeavor, Endure, Explosion, Facade, Fire Blast, Fire Spin, Flail, Flamethrower, Frustration, Heat Wave, Hidden Power, Hyper Beam, Hyper Voice, Iron Defense, Iron Tail, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Outrage, Overheat, Protect, Rapid Spin, Rest, Return, Revenge, Roar, Rock Tomb, Shock Wave, Sleep Talk, Smog, Snore, Solar Beam, Substitute, Sunny Day, Swagger, Tackle, Taunt, Toxic, Uproar, Will-O-Wisp, dragon tail
Signature move: shell trap
Role: bulky fire type rapid spinner that isn’t immediately threatened by water types and can chip heal a lot in sun.
Checks and counters: it’s extremely passive thuds hard into sub cm pokemon, struggles to do any real type of damage without booming or status.
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Name: Toxicroak
Type: Poison/Fighting
Stats: 83/106/65/86/65/85
Abilities: Dry Skin
Movepool: Sludge Bomb, Sucker Punch (80 bp), Toxic, Ice Punch, Focus Punch, Brick Break, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Hidden Power, Substitute, Shadow Ball, Swords Dance, Bulk Up, Protect
Reasoning: sucker punch moment. More likely than not to swords dance and substitute to break through mons, but has an option vs fast psychics that are either deo or heavily chipped. We all love sub punch. Gets very heavily threatened by groudon but groudon doesn’t love taking focus punch
Highlighted moves added to Pokemons moveset.
Name: Overqwil
Type: Poison/Dark
Stats: 85/105/95/95/85/85 (10 less attack, 30 more special attack, 20 more spdef)
Abilities: Intimidate/Swift Swim
Full Movepool: Agility, Aqua Jet, Blizzard, Crunch, Curse, Work Up, Destiny Bond, Double-Edge, Facade, Haze, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Pain Split, Protect, Rest, Shadow Ball, Sleep Talk, Sludge Bomb, Spikes, Substitute, Surf, Swords Dance, Taunt, Toxic, Waterfall, Astonish, Bite, Bubble Beam, Endure, Flail, Harden, Hyper Beam, Icy Wind, Minimize, Mud Shot, Poison Sting, Rain Dance, Reversal, Scary Face, Self Destruct, Spite, Spit Up, Swallow, Stockpile, Supersonic, Swift, Tackle, Take Down, Water Pulse, Pursuit, Hidden Power, Return, Frustration
Work Up | Normal | 0 BP | 100% Accuracy | 10 pp | Raises User's Attack and Special Attack by One Stage
(Distribution would be what it is in current gen, but also the qwilfishes, poliwrath and prob a few others)
Role: Overqwil acts as a mixed breaker, utilising its unique type combo and attacks to break through common defensive staples such as Blissey, the Lati twins, and Groudon. With Pursuit, it can also trap Deoxys Attack, which is very nice utility. Its a lot better against offensive playstyles, but if needed, against defense it can provide utility with Spikes+Self Destruct, allowing it to trade with any opposing mons easily.
Checks/Counters: Despite its great typing, Overqwil can struggle a lot into the Lati twins still, as Dragon Claw still does a lot to it. Furthermore, while it has options such as Spikes and Toxic to cripple Groudon, it can struggle to fit it into its moveset without compromising other MU's.
Name: Shiinotic
Type: Grass/Ghost
Stats: 70/65/80/90/130/30 (10 more hp, 20 more attack, 30 more special defense)
Abilities: Rain Dish/Effect Spore
Full Movepool: Shadow Ball, Energy Ball, Facade, Giga Drain, Hidden Power, Return, Frustation, Slack Off, Leech Seed, Light Screen, Reflect, Magic Coat, Moonlight, Protect, Rest, Return, Signal Beam, Sleep Powder, Sleep Talk, Sludge Bomb, Spore, Substitute, Synthesis, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Weather Ball, Absorb, Amnesia, Astonish, Attract, Confuse Ray, Double Team, Dream Eater, Endure, Flash, Growth, Hyper Beam, Ingrain, Mega Drain, Nature Power, Poison Powder, Rain Dance, Recycle, Safeguard, Snore, Solar Beam, Stun Spore, Sunny Day, Swagger
Role: Shiinotic's role is as a defensive tank Pokemon for Rain teams that can check Pokemon such as the Latis and Kyogre, while not completely floundering to Groudon and putting something to sleep with Spore. It also has the ability to check Body Slam+Earthquake Snorlax.
Checks/Counters: Once something has been put to sleep, Shiinotic is a very passive Pokemon if it is not hitting something with its grass STAB. Kyogre and the Latis (if it is not packing Shadow Ball), can potentially use Shiinotic as setup fodder, as it does not do much back in return after a boost or two. While Energy Ball still does a ton to Groudon, HP Ghost still does a lot back and without physical defense investment, can OHKO if Groudon is CB.
Name: Poliwrath
Type: Water/Fighting
Stats: 90/105/95/90/90/65 (20 more attack, 20 more special attack, 5 less speed
Abilities: Water Absorb/Swift Swim
New Moves: Work Up, Cross Chop, Low Kick, Encore, Taunt
Role: Poliwrath acts as a mixed Swift Swim sweeper, with its ability to take on the combination of the Latis, Groudon (somewhat), Kyogre (somewhat) and ofc, Blissey. With options such as Encore and Taunt, its able to utilise its switch in opportunities to punish foes such as CM kyogre and such.
Checks/Counters: Doesn't provide a lot defensively, as its still struggles to take hits that are not resisted. Struggles into Groudon as while Low Kick 3HKO's, Earthquake does a lot of damage back. Kyogre can take one Low Kick easily and respond with Thunder, which OHKO's it. Even Surf does a hefty chunk to Poliwrath. Lati twins can take one HP Bug/Ghost, and fire back with Thunder.
Name: Overqwil
Type: Poison/Dark
Stats: 85/105/95/95/85/85 (10 less attack, 30 more special attack, 20 more spdef)
Abilities: Intimidate/Swift Swim
Full Movepool: Agility, Aqua Jet, Blizzard, Crunch, Curse, Work Up, Destiny Bond, Double-Edge, Facade, Haze, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Pain Split, Protect, Rest, Shadow Ball, Sleep Talk, Sludge Bomb, Spikes, Substitute, Surf, Swords Dance, Taunt, Toxic, Waterfall, Astonish, Bite, Bubble Beam, Endure, Flail, Harden, Hyper Beam, Icy Wind, Minimize, Mud Shot, Poison Sting, Rain Dance, Reversal, Scary Face, Self Destruct, Spite, Spit Up, Swallow, Stockpile, Supersonic, Swift, Tackle, Take Down, Water Pulse, Pursuit, Hidden Power, Return, Frustration
Work Up | Normal | 0 BP | 100% Accuracy | 10 pp | Raises User's Attack and Special Attack by One Stage
(Distribution would be what it is in current gen, but also the qwilfishes, poliwrath and prob a few others)
Role: Overqwil acts as a mixed breaker, utilising its unique type combo and attacks to break through common defensive staples such as Blissey, the Lati twins, and Groudon. With Pursuit, it can also trap Deoxys Attack, which is very nice utility. Its a lot better against offensive playstyles, but if needed, against defense it can provide utility with Spikes+Self Destruct, allowing it to trade with any opposing mons easily.
Checks/Counters: Despite its great typing, Overqwil can struggle a lot into the Lati twins still, as Dragon Claw still does a lot to it. Furthermore, while it has options such as Spikes and Toxic to cripple Groudon, it can struggle to fit it into its moveset without compromising other MU's.
Name: Shiinotic
Type: Grass/Ghost
Stats: 70/65/80/90/130/30 (10 more hp, 20 more attack, 30 more special defense)
Abilities: Rain Dish/Effect Spore
Full Movepool: Shadow Ball, Energy Ball, Facade, Giga Drain, Hidden Power, Return, Frustation, Slack Off, Leech Seed, Light Screen, Reflect, Magic Coat, Moonlight, Protect, Rest, Return, Signal Beam, Sleep Powder, Sleep Talk, Sludge Bomb, Spore, Substitute, Synthesis, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Weather Ball, Absorb, Amnesia, Astonish, Attract, Confuse Ray, Double Team, Dream Eater, Endure, Flash, Growth, Hyper Beam, Ingrain, Mega Drain, Nature Power, Poison Powder, Rain Dance, Recycle, Safeguard, Snore, Solar Beam, Stun Spore, Sunny Day, Swagger
Role: Shiinotic's role is as a defensive tank Pokemon for Rain teams that can check Pokemon such as the Latis and Kyogre, while not completely floundering to Groudon and putting something to sleep with Spore. It also has the ability to check Body Slam+Earthquake Snorlax.
Checks/Counters: Once something has been put to sleep, Shiinotic is a very passive Pokemon if it is not hitting something with its grass STAB. Kyogre and the Latis (if it is not packing Shadow Ball), can potentially use Shiinotic as setup fodder, as it does not do much back in return after a boost or two. While Energy Ball still does a ton to Groudon, HP Ghost still does a lot back and without physical defense investment, can OHKO if Groudon is CB.
Name: Poliwrath
Type: Water/Fighting
Stats: 90/105/95/90/90/65 (20 more attack, 20 more special attack, 5 less speed
Abilities: Water Absorb/Swift Swim
New Moves: Work Up, Cross Chop, Low Kick, Encore, Taunt
Role: Poliwrath acts as a mixed Swift Swim sweeper, with its ability to take on the combination of the Latis, Groudon (somewhat), Kyogre (somewhat) and ofc, Blissey. With options such as Encore and Taunt, its able to utilise its switch in opportunities to punish foes such as CM kyogre and such.
Checks/Counters: Doesn't provide a lot defensively, as its still struggles to take hits that are not resisted. Struggles into Groudon as while Low Kick 3HKO's, Earthquake does a lot of damage back. Kyogre can take one Low Kick easily and respond with Thunder, which OHKO's it. Even Surf does a hefty chunk to Poliwrath. Lati twins can take one HP Bug/Ghost, and fire back with Thunder.
Name: Ampharos
Type: Electric
Stats: 110(+20)/95(+20)/85(+10)/115/90/55
Abilities: Static/Hydration
New Moves: Calm Mind
Role: CM sweeper with hydration to both allow you to forgoe refresh and also use drawbackless rest, you also enjoy resisting half of bolt beam. Opposing Kyogre can be beaten one on one with your Thunder and Rest, even other CM sets, you can also scare Lax and Blissey with focus punch if you can fit it over Hidden Power and still do good damage even uninvested but you could run HP Ice to stop Meowscarada and Chesnaut from coming in on you and forcing you out. Your base 115 spa and Thunder STAB allows you to fully invest in bulk, which can alleviate your physical frailty or make you a good special check. Thunder in general can bash a lot of the tier, even if uninvested, stuff like Lugia Ho-Oh and even the psychics can't really chunk it and the para chance makes that better.
Checks/Counters: Unless you are like +4 and running HP, Groudon absolutely destroys you, especially on a rest. Rayquaza can also be annoying for this reason also you can smack it on the switch if you predict it so it's hardly a counter. You also need to choose between HP ice for the dragons, especially Latios and Latias who can set-up on you without it, or Focus Punch to stop Blissey from stone walling you, although it can't wear you down with toxic due to the ability. In general you're also relatively physically frail to stuff like Shadow Ball and E-Speed if you go max SPDEF.
Name: Tornadus-Therian
Type: Flying
Stats: 79/110(+10)/80/110/90/111(-10)
Abilities: Natural Cure
Full Movepool: Aerial Ace, Agility, Air Cutter, Astonish, Attract, Bite, Body Slam, Brick Break, Bulk Up, Crunch, Double Team, Endure, Extrasensory, Facade, Fly, Frustration, Gust, Heat Wave, Hidden Power, Hyper Beam, Icy Wind, Iron Tail,
Bleakwind Storm: 100 BP Flying Move, 16pp, 80% accurate, 30% chance to lower Speed.
Role: Physical or mixed sweeper with Bulk Up/SD and actual Flying STAB, naturally high speed and Bleakwind allows you to both provide a ground immunity, which helps both Omastar and Kabutops given their EQ weakness, and helps in dealing with the tier's new grass types which both act as a new countermeasure against rain. Access to Brick Break and Bulk Up in general lets you slam the physical walls that give the rest of your abusers trouble, SD also being effective against opposing Kyogre which dislike taking a Bleakwind at +2. Natural Cure can also make you a status absorber, notably also able to be immune to SPDef Groudon's EQ. Your wide coverage in general allows you to cover a wide array of threats in the metagame, but the neutral strength of bleakwind can alleviate 4MSS.
Checks/Counters: Being weak to both "Bolt" and "Beam" heavily limits your ability to switch in. While you can pressure Latias/os with Crunch, you can't switch into them or Mewtwo for this reason. Without swift swim, you're also outsped and revenged by Deo-A and the aformentioned MewTwo. In general, Tornadus is less effective against offensive teams than defensive ones, which causes it to synergize with the rest of rain.
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