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Tournament Hackmons Premier League II - Commencement
- Thread starter Electra102
- Start date
Ranking PH cores. If your team is placed low don't like what I said about you, prove me wrong in the tour! These are just my personal takes
1. Kyogres – 6: realExcaliju, jb291, TuffStuff; 7: adriancosmoem, AnsonIsTheBest, realExcaliju, splodge, Mewtwo's Greatest Soldier
2. Giraffes – 6: Glory, sussyamongusdrip, LycanrocWasTaken, Clas; 7: sussyamongusdrip, Glory, rightclicker, LycanrocWasTaken
3. Smeargles – 6: Ransei, Sheep Liver; 7: cscl, Ransei, ANinjaDude
4. Reshirams – 6: lag=bad, Maxouille, Eyeos, Iguana, berry, betathunder?; 7: lag=bad, Eyeos (Hallward)
5. Nihilegos – 6: NToTheN (GhastlyPixie?); 7: NToTheN, GhastlyPixie, Archey, aidan amoongus
ORAS (best to worst, assuming players start where I believe they will):
Kyogres
Giraffes (sussy not in ORAS)
Nihilegos (N in ORAS; main problem is who else starts as ORAS is given 2 slots)
Reshirams (lag not in ORAS)
Smeargles
Kyogres ≈ Giraffes > Nihilegos > Reshirams > Smeargles
USUM (best to worst, same assumption):
Smeargles
Kyogres
Giraffes
Reshirams (lag in USUM)
Nihilegos (N not in USUM)
Smeargles > Kyogres ≈ Giraffes > Reshirams ≈ Nihilegos
1. Kyogres – 6: realExcaliju, jb291, TuffStuff; 7: adriancosmoem, AnsonIsTheBest, realExcaliju, splodge, Mewtwo's Greatest Soldier
Excaliju/jb are very strong pilots in this pool, and the latter is mostly self-sufficient as well. I built most of Excaliju's teams in HPL I/PHPL, though, so actually building might be difficult. ORAS PH is also pretty hard to intuit if you're a competent builder in the other Hackmons metas so this is a problem. On the USUM side, I like adrian's creativity a lot and believe they will genuinely do well. I know Excaliju's done pretty well on the USUM ladder before, but I'm not sure about their building capabilities in that gen; the other USUM players can try to chip in though.
Glory is a much more prolific builder and an overall more solid pilot in ORAS than anyone else I listed. sussy also has good (but overall less consistent) ideas, and while I dislike their piloting that doesn't matter here as they won't be starting in ORAS. Lycanroc is honestly overall underrated imo, building solid enough teams in conjunction with Glory/sussy, though again piloting leaves much to be desired. I rate sussy quite highly in USUM and Glory/rightclicker support also count for something.
Weakest ORAS by far imo, I don't trust Ransei or Sheep Liver's building and while Ransei is a decent enough pilot in this pool, that's less so in Bo3 ORAS (where the tougher players will slot) and Sheep Liver will also likely start (in Bo1). Nihilslave can play in a tiebreak scenario, at least. In contrast the Smeargles' USUM is probably the strongest out of the 5 teams, and I can explain by opinion but not fully rationalize cscl's meta takes or preferred teams. I think Ransei can also meaningfully help as well. Overall middling if you take both extremes into account.
lag is probably the most creative ORAS builder, but unfortunately that gen doesn't really favor raw creativity over "controlled" creative sets that actually meaningfully interact with the metagame titans and are consistent. Also unfortunately, I don't trust any of the other ORAS builders, though they're all creative to some degree. I haven't seen betathunder play in a while, if ever, but they're a fairly solid player so I'll be excited if they're given the opportunity to start at some point. I like lag's creativity more in USUM, though their support isn't the strongest as I don't rate Eyeos' building style very highly. Also, I don't think lag's building style is conducive to the type of meta USUM has evolved into. Hallward's cooking may count for something though
I personally think N's preferred ORAS archetypes are a bit outdated and not actually that consistent, but are decent enough, and N is a fairly strong pilot. However, I don't know who the hell plays the other ORAS slot, since no one else seems to have more than a basic understanding of the tier. Also unsure who starts in USUM (probably Pix?) or if N/Archey/aidan can sufficiently aid in building for her in modern USUM PH. Maybe QT can pick up one or both gens? That'd be cool
ORAS (best to worst, assuming players start where I believe they will):
Kyogres
Giraffes (sussy not in ORAS)
Nihilegos (N in ORAS; main problem is who else starts as ORAS is given 2 slots)
Reshirams (lag not in ORAS)
Smeargles
Kyogres ≈ Giraffes > Nihilegos > Reshirams > Smeargles
USUM (best to worst, same assumption):
Smeargles
Kyogres
Giraffes
Reshirams (lag in USUM)
Nihilegos (N not in USUM)
Smeargles > Kyogres ≈ Giraffes > Reshirams ≈ Nihilegos
Last edited:
>Sheep Liver: OK builder in ORAS, pretty decent clicker.Remade ORAS rankings (managers in italics)
Players ordered within rank.
Didn't include myself due to bias.
tier
Glory: Do I need to explain this? Best tour builder, decent pilot.
NToTheN: Solid builder. Solid pilot. Loads of experience. No need to explain this as well.
aerobee: A few questionable teams. Really good pilot, one of the best builders. Easily the best player with Dual MMX.
tier
Iguana: Please sign up if you have timeRespectful clicker, awesome builder, really looking forward to your teams!
Lag=bad: Very solid builder. Decent pilot.
tier
Ransei: He can easily support every single tier. Might be underestimated in ORAS although he can cook really cool tour teams that work.
Excaliju: Solid builder. Very good pilot. Brings somewhat really standard teams.
jb291: Good pilot. Decent builder from what I've seen in HPL1.
tier
SussyAmongUsDrip: Solid builder. Respectful clicker.
Berry: Good clicker. Good builder.
Nihilslave: Definitely not the best ORAS builder. But imo one of the best pilot if not the best pilot in every meta. Needs support if he somehow ends up in ORAS but with a decent team, could be a huge threat.
Maxouille: All of his HO teams are weak to Pixi MDiancie in PHPL. Very good pilot but I'm afraid he would be cteamable if he doesn't adjust in HPL.
tier
Cscl: Good builder, decent clicker for ORAS, hopefully he doesn't end up playing ORAS.
GhastlyPixie: OK builder for ORAS, solid clicker.
Sheep Liver: OK builder in ORAS, pretty decent clicker.
Teamo: Never seen them build much in ORAS, solid clicker.
Archey: Decent builder. OK pilot.
Scipioklol: Decent pilot. Builds are questionable for the current meta.
tier
TuffStuff: OK pilot, OK builder.
Ineros: Good pilot, never seen them build themselves at all in ORAS, so likely won't play ORAS tho
Podra: OK pilot from what I've seen.
tier
Guysmash: Doesn't build much in ORAS and doesn't have much experience in it. He does however pilot pretty fairly.
Rarre: Never seen them play at all, solid builder and driver in metas he play tho.
Clas: Never seen them play at all, solid builder and driver in metas he play tho.
Dabob95: Lobby ORAS PH player, fair builder and pilot.
tier
itzemanboss: Support material
mayonnaise. mayo.: Support material
tier
Penultimate Toast: Unironically the most questionable player in the entire ORAS PH signups.
View attachment 760241
Managers who plan to draft him for usum:
View attachment 760243
I hope he brings one that's good and can actually beat cscl!
Alright. Bye.
Edit: sorry Nihilslave, spelt your name wrong
why do people think I'm good at building ;-; I cannot build for shit
Ranking SVBH slots.
1.
QT + Pannuracotta is an extremely high tier pairing and I expect their build styles to be pretty compatible (they are both boring as hell). TTTech is there but I feel he's probably going to go in ND or Oldgens and I don't really think his support would be useful to their playstyles.
2.
I really really hate to say it, but Chessking is the best player in the pool assuming he slots SV. Taka or Damflame will also probably perform well with the team's quite good builder support between Chess Quo Ballfire and Aerobee, but might not be super consistent.
3.
Wheaty is a good clicker although definitely has a reputation for being a one trick in the builder and may be low on morale post-OMPL. They've got a handful of viable options for the other slot in RC and Treeko plus potentially Zane if they manage to get back into the meta.
4.
Funny team because Anaconja and Nihilslave are BH all stars who could certainly pick up SV quickly to support their clickers. But I don't think either of them actually want to. So that leaves Ninjadude Mok3s and Quinn, all competent players who could really use the building support out to dry. If Nihil supports heavily I could see them going above Ampharos but I'm not sure if he will.
5.
Who is even here...? Hallward builds will probably do OK although he's gonna be the main builder so it will be more predictable. Groudons last HPL got a lot of their SV wins off cheesy teams and there's a lot less of that running around. MAMP won't be slotting SV and probably will be busy carrying the oldgens. The clickers are UnbecomingDuck, who is OK but will probably need support as they have little to no tour experience. Betticus and Evie who are good OM players with interest in picking up BH, but might have pretty big motivation issues on the Reshirams. There are also some relative unknowns and maybe Hallward will have found some diamonds in the rough but I'm not really a believer.
1.
QT + Pannuracotta is an extremely high tier pairing and I expect their build styles to be pretty compatible (they are both boring as hell). TTTech is there but I feel he's probably going to go in ND or Oldgens and I don't really think his support would be useful to their playstyles.
2.
I really really hate to say it, but Chessking is the best player in the pool assuming he slots SV. Taka or Damflame will also probably perform well with the team's quite good builder support between Chess Quo Ballfire and Aerobee, but might not be super consistent.
3.
Wheaty is a good clicker although definitely has a reputation for being a one trick in the builder and may be low on morale post-OMPL. They've got a handful of viable options for the other slot in RC and Treeko plus potentially Zane if they manage to get back into the meta.
4.
Funny team because Anaconja and Nihilslave are BH all stars who could certainly pick up SV quickly to support their clickers. But I don't think either of them actually want to. So that leaves Ninjadude Mok3s and Quinn, all competent players who could really use the building support out to dry. If Nihil supports heavily I could see them going above Ampharos but I'm not sure if he will.
5.
Who is even here...? Hallward builds will probably do OK although he's gonna be the main builder so it will be more predictable. Groudons last HPL got a lot of their SV wins off cheesy teams and there's a lot less of that running around. MAMP won't be slotting SV and probably will be busy carrying the oldgens. The clickers are UnbecomingDuck, who is OK but will probably need support as they have little to no tour experience. Betticus and Evie who are good OM players with interest in picking up BH, but might have pretty big motivation issues on the Reshirams. There are also some relative unknowns and maybe Hallward will have found some diamonds in the rough but I'm not really a believer.
PRs
SVBH
1.
A bit above the rest. pannu is the strongest clicker here and QT is the strongest player if they choose to slot. QT teams are also universally pilotable by other clickers on the team, albeit their in games are not as strong. I know TTTech does not want to play SV or so they claim, but if they are slotting SV thats just a bonus.
2.
Marginally above 3rd because I think the teams are going to be the strongest, and the in game is not even worse just less experience with the players I'm expecting. City and Akira teams are not usually the easiest to pilot but they are perfectly capable of helping their players refine drafts and stuff.
3.
The biggest issue is going to be the lack of builders, since their main stars are all likely slotted into the 3 other formats. That being said Nihilslave with Sevag support can construct good teams still and I rank their players skill level a bit higher.
4.
A lot of players with experience in SV here, but I have reserves about their compatibility since they all seem to have pretty unique team preferences (and not a whole lot of diversity). I also think in terms of team solidity this team could be more shaky. Piloting I would also rank marginally weaker.
5.
This team lacks builders. Hallward teams are definitely not for everyone and while MAMP can help I don't know how spread thin they might be here. The pilots here also don't have the most experience with playing and for sure not building, so that's going to be a super weak link for sure. Individually the players aren't bad since several are very good at other tiers, but motivation might also be an issue with the team supply issue.
SSBH
1.
Nihilslave is more than super capable in this slot with builds and plays, and they unlike 2nd have team support from Sevag.
2.
I think, if MAMP is slotting in this, then they are the most self sufficient and capable player here. SS in general is quite pilot heavy but that also requires the player to be familiar with the developed meta and the team they are using, all of which MAMP ticks off.
3.
If QT is playing this slot themself then I can see this being higher, though the top 3 would be really close. Otherwise, I expect solid teams passed from QT but I think the piloting would be weaker.
4.
Jqlove is a better clicker than whoever Nihilegos can play that isn't QT, but I don't know how well they will fare without Nihilslave passing teams (IF Nihilslave isn't passing teams). That being said SS doesn't require that much new teambuilding so maybe its fine.
5.
Team has fine clickers I believe like Osake and Kabilapok, but I think compared to the other teams (SS pool is heavy) they might have less experience (actually probably not less than Nihilego I think their clickers might be more rusty). Teams shouldn't be an issue with cityscapes but her teams are still harder to pilot even in SS I think.
SMBH
1.
anaconja + Sevag core is comfortably the strongest in both teambuilding and piloting.
2.
I think of all the slots QT is likely to slot into this is the most likely one. And while I don't have as much recollection of QT in SM it is still QT and they probably just skill gap.
3.
Mickle is for sure overlooked and one of the more active (once was) players in SM especially in the later end, and city (+ Akira) support is more than enough.
4.
This depends on if berry is the one playing this, since though they might be rusty they still have experience and MAMP support here is quite valuable. If berry isn't the one playing then this might be 5th since I don't think any of the remaining players have notable experience.
5.
jasprose is capable but their builds might be more on the linear side and this team doesn't have much support.
NDBH
1.
anaconja + Sevag core is the strongest in both teambuilding and piloting, as long as Sevag doesn't choke (big if).
2.
TTTech is very good and probably the most solid slotter here, and BoingK is also fine and offers support alongside the other players on this team like QT.
3.
Clas has experience, rightclicker can offer support.
4.
I know Akira doesn't like this tier and city hasn't played it in quite a while but I think thats still city support. Pilots I don't see anyone that has notable experience though.
5.
I don't see anyone on this team with ND experience and ND is a tier that has a lot of stuff going on unique to it so thats going to hurt. AM might have some idea based on maybe some engagement with NDAMs but building is still an issue.
Overall (including PH)
1.
I think this team has generally well rounded slots across. 3 non SVBH slots are very strong, 7PH very strong, and the remaining slots are all playable. Top team in tiebreaks too.
2.
Some very strong BH slots with big names, but QT can only play in one slot so 1-2 might be a bit shakier. PH can also definitely be quite weak.
3.
No outright weak slot, which can be nice. However none of the slots outside of Bo3 are particularly strong, which can make every week shaky. Team synergy might also be a factor.
4.
Novel draft strategy that I would never do, so perhaps I am missing something here. Team has many many players, and the names aren't bad but can have similar issues with the Giraffes. PH slots are strong but might have building issues for 6PH.
5.
I think outside of 8BH there are really no standout slots here, especially the other BH slots being problematic here. Hallward pulled off an impressive performance despite doubts last year, but I think there are several factors here that are different and hurt his attempt again this year.
SVBH
1.
A bit above the rest. pannu is the strongest clicker here and QT is the strongest player if they choose to slot. QT teams are also universally pilotable by other clickers on the team, albeit their in games are not as strong. I know TTTech does not want to play SV or so they claim, but if they are slotting SV thats just a bonus.
2.
Marginally above 3rd because I think the teams are going to be the strongest, and the in game is not even worse just less experience with the players I'm expecting. City and Akira teams are not usually the easiest to pilot but they are perfectly capable of helping their players refine drafts and stuff.
3.
The biggest issue is going to be the lack of builders, since their main stars are all likely slotted into the 3 other formats. That being said Nihilslave with Sevag support can construct good teams still and I rank their players skill level a bit higher.
4.
A lot of players with experience in SV here, but I have reserves about their compatibility since they all seem to have pretty unique team preferences (and not a whole lot of diversity). I also think in terms of team solidity this team could be more shaky. Piloting I would also rank marginally weaker.
5.
This team lacks builders. Hallward teams are definitely not for everyone and while MAMP can help I don't know how spread thin they might be here. The pilots here also don't have the most experience with playing and for sure not building, so that's going to be a super weak link for sure. Individually the players aren't bad since several are very good at other tiers, but motivation might also be an issue with the team supply issue.
SSBH
1.
Nihilslave is more than super capable in this slot with builds and plays, and they unlike 2nd have team support from Sevag.
2.
I think, if MAMP is slotting in this, then they are the most self sufficient and capable player here. SS in general is quite pilot heavy but that also requires the player to be familiar with the developed meta and the team they are using, all of which MAMP ticks off.
3.
If QT is playing this slot themself then I can see this being higher, though the top 3 would be really close. Otherwise, I expect solid teams passed from QT but I think the piloting would be weaker.
4.
Jqlove is a better clicker than whoever Nihilegos can play that isn't QT, but I don't know how well they will fare without Nihilslave passing teams (IF Nihilslave isn't passing teams). That being said SS doesn't require that much new teambuilding so maybe its fine.
5.
Team has fine clickers I believe like Osake and Kabilapok, but I think compared to the other teams (SS pool is heavy) they might have less experience (actually probably not less than Nihilego I think their clickers might be more rusty). Teams shouldn't be an issue with cityscapes but her teams are still harder to pilot even in SS I think.
SMBH
1.
anaconja + Sevag core is comfortably the strongest in both teambuilding and piloting.
2.
I think of all the slots QT is likely to slot into this is the most likely one. And while I don't have as much recollection of QT in SM it is still QT and they probably just skill gap.
3.
Mickle is for sure overlooked and one of the more active (once was) players in SM especially in the later end, and city (+ Akira) support is more than enough.
4.
This depends on if berry is the one playing this, since though they might be rusty they still have experience and MAMP support here is quite valuable. If berry isn't the one playing then this might be 5th since I don't think any of the remaining players have notable experience.
5.
jasprose is capable but their builds might be more on the linear side and this team doesn't have much support.
NDBH
1.
anaconja + Sevag core is the strongest in both teambuilding and piloting, as long as Sevag doesn't choke (big if).
2.
TTTech is very good and probably the most solid slotter here, and BoingK is also fine and offers support alongside the other players on this team like QT.
3.
Clas has experience, rightclicker can offer support.
4.
I know Akira doesn't like this tier and city hasn't played it in quite a while but I think thats still city support. Pilots I don't see anyone that has notable experience though.
5.
I don't see anyone on this team with ND experience and ND is a tier that has a lot of stuff going on unique to it so thats going to hurt. AM might have some idea based on maybe some engagement with NDAMs but building is still an issue.
Overall (including PH)
1.
I think this team has generally well rounded slots across. 3 non SVBH slots are very strong, 7PH very strong, and the remaining slots are all playable. Top team in tiebreaks too.
2.
Some very strong BH slots with big names, but QT can only play in one slot so 1-2 might be a bit shakier. PH can also definitely be quite weak.
3.
No outright weak slot, which can be nice. However none of the slots outside of Bo3 are particularly strong, which can make every week shaky. Team synergy might also be a factor.
4.
Novel draft strategy that I would never do, so perhaps I am missing something here. Team has many many players, and the names aren't bad but can have similar issues with the Giraffes. PH slots are strong but might have building issues for 6PH.
5.
I think outside of 8BH there are really no standout slots here, especially the other BH slots being problematic here. Hallward pulled off an impressive performance despite doubts last year, but I think there are several factors here that are different and hurt his attempt again this year.
for all the ss bh players in the tour, here's a resource i made and have been using for a while to speed up calcing during games: https://pokepast.es/398bf96077913ded
you can import these sets into the damage calc so you don't have to waste time doing things like removing slow start from gigas and setting max evs every time, i find it a big help. these sets are optimised for calcing: obviously facade/v-create/glacial lance/wicked blow gigas is not a real set, but there's not really any point to having dragon dance or spikes on the set when you're trying to calc damage. hopefully this is helpful to somebody
you can import these sets into the damage calc so you don't have to waste time doing things like removing slow start from gigas and setting max evs every time, i find it a big help. these sets are optimised for calcing: obviously facade/v-create/glacial lance/wicked blow gigas is not a real set, but there's not really any point to having dragon dance or spikes on the set when you're trying to calc damage. hopefully this is helpful to somebody
How dare you lump QT in with pannu, QT isn't nearly as boring.
I can't say the same for the other two, but I am only competent half the time, the other half of the time I'm a sun-worshipping trio of caffeine addicted ADHD schizo monkeys in a tattered trenchcoat and bad wigs.
For people saying that Iguana got lucky I’ll have you all know that I listen to this song for 5 hours before the game while performing many rituals to bless him so it was actually ancient spirits that got those 3 turn sleeps and it’s pink giraffes fault for not appeasing the arcane spirits before the game.
We simply prepared better
We simply prepared better
| TheCreatorOfBullsht | 21000 |
| splodge | 19000 |
| lag=bad | 14000 |
| ANinjaDude | 11000 |
| Ballfire | 10000 |
| Archey | 9000 |
| Dabob95 | 4000 |
| big tony 2014 | 3000 |
| Scipioklol | 3000 |
| aidan amoongus | 3000 |
| Mewtwo's Greatest Soldier | 3000 |
| NToTheN | 25500 |
| Clas | 17000 |
| XxLazzerpenguinxX | 14500 |
| PenultimateToast | 3000 |
| Treeko928 | 3000 |
| Don Bork | 3000 |
| Rei | 3000 |
| Zane(Bifloofendoofen) | 3000 |
| Iguana | 3000 |
| Chessking345 | 0 |
| aerobee | 0 |
| anaconja | 34000 |
| pannu | 15000 |
| damflame 3 | 7000 |
| rarre | 4000 |
| Mok3s | 3000 |
| fiish | 3000 |
| mayonnaise. mayo. | 3000 |
| LycanrocWastaken | 3000 |
| lemonstre1 | 3000 |
| cscl | 0 |
| Nihilslave | 0 |
| Ineros | 57000 |
| Mickle314 | 4500 |
| betathunder | 4000 |
| Maxouille | 3500 |
| aeth | 3500 |
| Codename C.A.T | 3000 |
| Quinn | 3000 |
| Taka | 3000 |
| xdRudi.exe | 3000 |
| maybca | 3000 |
| rightclicker | 0 |
| berry | 15500 |
| Wheaty | 13000 |
| MAMP | 8500 |
| Osake | 8500 |
| rumia | 8000 |
| quojova | 8000 |
| realExcaliju | 7000 |
| Glory | 5000 |
| FlamPoke | 4000 |
| jasprose | 4000 |
| Jqlove | 4000 |
| AM | 4000 |
| sussyamongusdrip | 4000 |
| Sheep Liver | 3500 |
| shadowpea | 3000 |
| Ransei | 19500 |
| TTTech | 16000 |
| Tanny89k | 9000 |
| Podra | 5500 |
| Betticus IV | 5500 |
| One Last Kiss | 5000 |
| adriancosmoem | 5000 |
| AnsonIsTheBest | 3500 |
| teamo | 3000 |
| Fish Gaming | 3000 |
| GhastlyPixie | 0 |
| QT | 0 |
| Ineros | 57000 | Pink Giraffes |
| anaconja | 34000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| NToTheN | 25500 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| TheCreatorOfBullsht | 21000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Ransei | 19500 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| splodge | 19000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Clas | 17000 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| TTTech | 16000 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| berry | 15500 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| pannu | 15000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| XxLazzerpenguinxX | 14500 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| lag=bad | 14000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Wheaty | 13000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| ANinjaDude | 11000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Ballfire | 10000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Archey | 9000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Tanny89k | 9000 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| MAMP | 8500 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| Osake | 8500 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| rumia | 8000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| quojova | 8000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| realExcaliju | 7000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| damflame 3 | 7000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| Podra | 5500 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| Betticus IV | 5500 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| Glory | 5000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| One Last Kiss | 5000 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| adriancosmoem | 5000 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| Mickle314 | 4500 | Pink Giraffes |
| FlamPoke | 4000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| jasprose | 4000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| Dabob95 | 4000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Jqlove | 4000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| AM | 4000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| sussyamongusdrip | 4000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| rarre | 4000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| betathunder | 4000 | Pink Giraffes |
| Sheep Liver | 3500 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| Maxouille | 3500 | Pink Giraffes |
| AnsonIsTheBest | 3500 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| aeth | 3500 | Pink Giraffes |
| Codename C.A.T | 3000 | Pink Giraffes |
| PenultimateToast | 3000 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| big tony 2014 | 3000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Mok3s | 3000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| fiish | 3000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| shadowpea | 3000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| Treeko928 | 3000 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| Quinn | 3000 | Pink Giraffes |
| Don Bork | 3000 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| mayonnaise. mayo. | 3000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| Rei | 3000 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| Scipioklol | 3000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| LycanrocWastaken | 3000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| teamo | 3000 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| lemonstre1 | 3000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| aidan amoongus | 3000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Zane(Bifloofendoofen) | 3000 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| Mewtwo's Greatest Soldier | 3000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Fish Gaming | 3000 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| Taka | 3000 | Pink Giraffes |
| xdRudi.exe | 3000 | Pink Giraffes |
| Iguana | 3000 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| maybca | 3000 | Pink Giraffes |
| rightclicker | 0 | Pink Giraffes |
| GhastlyPixie | 0 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| QT | 0 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| Chessking345 | 0 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| aerobee | 0 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| cscl | 0 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| Nihilslave | 0 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
LATEST MOCC
yes we mocced in week 3
| TheCreatorOfBullsht | 21000 |
| splodge | 19000 |
| lag=bad | 14000 |
| ANinjaDude | 11000 |
| Ballfire | 10000 |
| Archey | 9000 |
| Dabob95 | 4000 |
| big tony 2014 | 3000 |
| Scipioklol | 3000 |
| aidan amoongus | 3000 |
| Mewtwo's Greatest Soldier | 3000 |
| NToTheN | 25500 |
| Clas | 17000 |
| XxLazzerpenguinxX | 14500 |
| PenultimateToast | 3000 |
| Treeko928 | 3000 |
| Don Bork | 3000 |
| Rei | 3000 |
| Zane(Bifloofendoofen) | 3000 |
| Iguana | 3000 |
| Chessking345 | 0 |
| aerobee | 0 |
| anaconja | 34000 |
| pannu | 15000 |
| damflame 3 | 7000 |
| rarre | 4000 |
| Mok3s | 3000 |
| fiish | 3000 |
| mayonnaise. mayo. | 3000 |
| LycanrocWastaken | 3000 |
| lemonstre1 | 3000 |
| cscl | 0 |
| Nihilslave | 0 |
| Ineros | 57000 |
| Mickle314 | 4500 |
| betathunder | 4000 |
| Maxouille | 3500 |
| aeth | 3500 |
| Codename C.A.T | 3000 |
| Quinn | 3000 |
| Taka | 3000 |
| xdRudi.exe | 3000 |
| maybca | 3000 |
| rightclicker | 0 |
| berry | 15500 |
| Wheaty | 13000 |
| MAMP | 8500 |
| Osake | 8500 |
| rumia | 8000 |
| quojova | 8000 |
| realExcaliju | 7000 |
| Glory | 5000 |
| FlamPoke | 4000 |
| jasprose | 4000 |
| Jqlove | 4000 |
| AM | 4000 |
| sussyamongusdrip | 4000 |
| Sheep Liver | 3500 |
| shadowpea | 3000 |
| Ransei | 19500 |
| TTTech | 16000 |
| Tanny89k | 9000 |
| Podra | 5500 |
| Betticus IV | 5500 |
| One Last Kiss | 5000 |
| adriancosmoem | 5000 |
| AnsonIsTheBest | 3500 |
| teamo | 3000 |
| Fish Gaming | 3000 |
| GhastlyPixie | 0 |
| QT | 0 |
| Ineros | 57000 | Pink Giraffes |
| anaconja | 34000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| NToTheN | 25500 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| TheCreatorOfBullsht | 21000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Ransei | 19500 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| splodge | 19000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Clas | 17000 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| TTTech | 16000 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| berry | 15500 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| pannu | 15000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| XxLazzerpenguinxX | 14500 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| lag=bad | 14000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Wheaty | 13000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| ANinjaDude | 11000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Ballfire | 10000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Archey | 9000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Tanny89k | 9000 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| MAMP | 8500 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| Osake | 8500 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| rumia | 8000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| quojova | 8000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| realExcaliju | 7000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| damflame 3 | 7000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| Podra | 5500 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| Betticus IV | 5500 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| Glory | 5000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| One Last Kiss | 5000 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| adriancosmoem | 5000 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| Mickle314 | 4500 | Pink Giraffes |
| FlamPoke | 4000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| jasprose | 4000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| Dabob95 | 4000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Jqlove | 4000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| AM | 4000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| sussyamongusdrip | 4000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| rarre | 4000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| betathunder | 4000 | Pink Giraffes |
| Sheep Liver | 3500 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| Maxouille | 3500 | Pink Giraffes |
| AnsonIsTheBest | 3500 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| aeth | 3500 | Pink Giraffes |
| Codename C.A.T | 3000 | Pink Giraffes |
| PenultimateToast | 3000 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| big tony 2014 | 3000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Mok3s | 3000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| fiish | 3000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| shadowpea | 3000 | Reshiram something something idfk |
| Treeko928 | 3000 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| Quinn | 3000 | Pink Giraffes |
| Don Bork | 3000 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| mayonnaise. mayo. | 3000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| Rei | 3000 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| Scipioklol | 3000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| LycanrocWastaken | 3000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| teamo | 3000 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| lemonstre1 | 3000 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| aidan amoongus | 3000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Zane(Bifloofendoofen) | 3000 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| Mewtwo's Greatest Soldier | 3000 | Sigma Star Kyogres |
| Fish Gaming | 3000 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| Taka | 3000 | Pink Giraffes |
| xdRudi.exe | 3000 | Pink Giraffes |
| Iguana | 3000 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| maybca | 3000 | Pink Giraffes |
| rightclicker | 0 | Pink Giraffes |
| GhastlyPixie | 0 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| QT | 0 | The Nihilistic Nihelgos |
| Chessking345 | 0 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| aerobee | 0 | Nefarious Necrozmas |
| cscl | 0 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
| Nihilslave | 0 | The Smurfin' Smeargles |
mocc 10... dont question... just, yeah
SV BH: Betticus IV
SV BH: Teamo
SS BH: Tanny89k
SM BH: QT
NDBH: TTTech
USUM PH: AdrianCosmoem
ORAS PH: GhastlyPixie
ORAS PH BO3: Ransei
Overall cracked draft with the sv slot being somewhat lacking but very manageable.
SV BH: Teamo
SS BH: Tanny89k
SM BH: QT
NDBH: TTTech
USUM PH: AdrianCosmoem
ORAS PH: GhastlyPixie
ORAS PH BO3: Ransei
Overall cracked draft with the sv slot being somewhat lacking but very manageable.
I regret nothing
SV BH: pannu
SV BH: rarre
SS BH: lemonstre1
SM BH: damflame 3
NDBH: anaconja
USUM PH: cscl
ORAS PH: Nihilslave
ORAS PH Bo3: LycanrocWastaken
subs: everybody else
i tried to invest entirely in bh because i had cscl from the start
SV BH: rarre
SS BH: lemonstre1
SM BH: damflame 3
NDBH: anaconja
USUM PH: cscl
ORAS PH: Nihilslave
ORAS PH Bo3: LycanrocWastaken
subs: everybody else
i tried to invest entirely in bh because i had cscl from the start
No, Gen 8 BH is not a fucking "solved meta", you fucking idiots
A Strongly Worded TreatiseI've been hearing a sentiment from various users lately that Gen 8 BH is "solved". These people don't know what they're talking about. Here are some of the primary points they make to support their argument (I'll be refuting each one):
"Regi + Xern is on every team and every game revolves around those two mons"
"The set of viable mons is generally well-known"
"Paralysis is extremely oppressive and decides every game"
"Balance is the only viable playstyle"
"If It Dies, It Dies"
Gen 1 and 2 OU infamously feature Tauros and Snorlax, respectively, on every serious team. But if you've seen people actually play these tiers, you'll understand that "eliminate the counters so that my Tauros/Snorlax can sweep" is not the only gameplan. While these Pokemon are strong, they aren't always the best choice for winning a given position. Really, their HP is a resource to be managed like any other.First of all, the only Pokemon I would even consider putting at the same level as those two in Gen 8 is Regigigas, as Facade is just so consistently powerful and oppressive and the mon also trivially fits Spikes. Even then, it's very shaky and there have been games like MAMP vs Jqlove with no Regigigas. The only Xerneas set that comes close to that in my opinion is Pixie Plate Spikes/Extreme Speed/Boomburst/Sap, which no one besides me actually uses. Other Pixilate Xerneas sets just have very limited utility and are kept in check by Imposter, while Poison Heal just doesn't do any damage to anything. (This isn't to say that these sets are bad, just that they aren't on the same level.)
Anyway, the thing with Regigigas is that any reasonably aggressive team has a very easy time chipping it down. Playing passive around Regigigas will usually lead to disaster, whether you're facing SD or Spikes or Nuzzle, but if it's coming in on your Xerneas, your V-Create Ho-Oh, your Core Enforcer mons, your RegenVest Calyrex-Ice (GOOD MON), then the opponent will have to commit to trading off Regigigas's HP to do anything. And with hazards in the picture, that isn't HP that's readily coming back.
I am reminded here of a specific section of Borat's GSC guide - definitely dated in some areas, but overall one of my favorite pieces of writing on the site:
When both players and teams are competent enough to not let Regigigas constantly do whatever it wants, you'll see it used extremely haphazardly--it might come in on some passive RegenVest, get immediately confronted by something like Aerilate Sharp Beak Yveltal, trade off most of its HP for most of the Yveltal's HP, then maybe get off one Facade later on before dying. This isn't even to say that more passive teams will always be bad into Regigigas (I'll get more into that later on), but this mon is much less terrorizing than most people give it credit for.
Actually, wait a minute. Aerilate Sharp Beak Yveltal? I haven't seen anyone using this in HPL! Please stop coming up with fake sets that clearly must be unviable or at the very least are too complex for me to understand!
Hello I Am A Newborn Child And I Have Never Heard Of Darmanitan-Zen
Back in the day, everyone in the Gen 8 BH thread (myself included, of course) used to spend their time coming up with CAPs such as Pheromosa and Kyurem-B in an attempt to be as eccentric and annoying as possible. This culture, even if it wasn't the most competitive, has essentially been whitewashed by this idea that all you need to do to understand the meta is understand Imposter / Regigigas / Eternatus / Xerneas / Zama-C / Ho-Oh / Gira / Zyg / Lunala. To that I say the same thing I said to the ignorant tours mains of old: none of you motherfuckers could survive five minutes on the ladder.Most mons on the VR have seen successful late-meta use despite the apparently "unbreakable" hegemony of the big 5. Then I look at my builder and am immediately greeted with mons that aren't even on the fucking VR. Looking at (semi) serious teams only, in 10 teams we got Marowak-A, Steelix, Toxapex, Lanturn, Diancie, Rotom-Heat, Volcarona, Cradily (this guy is pretty bad), and fucking ENTEI. All of them have clear ideas behind them and work on the teams in question. Entei is also just really really good and no one else acknowledges its existence. But oh, solved meta, nothing more to find. Are you stupid?
But yeah, even if you aren't looking at Unranked Heat you still have a bunch of shit on the VR that's like known demons but still clearly has a lot of unexplored potential. Like Darm-Z is just one example, that guy clicks Blue Flare and sapblocks Xern, but there's a whole bunch of other shit like Kyogre (Refrigerate/Pixilate Thousand Waves real), Kart, Heatran, every Flying-type in the game (Triage is in this shit remember), shit even some weirdo Zyg, etc that are just waiting to be brought and fucking shred through a standard team.
And EVEN if you aren't paying attention to those, you're just looking at the top tiers, there are STILL a ton of options. Like let's take Xerneas as an example. It can run:
- Defensive Boots Pixilate (Nuzzle/Volt Switch)
- Pixie Plate Pixilate (Extreme Speed + Knock, Spikes, or one of the above choices)
- Pixilate 1 Coverage (Usually Diamond Storm, V-Create, or Bolt Strike)
- Pixilate Specs
- Pixilate QD
- Pixilate NP + Nuzzle/Glare
- Pixilate 2 Coverage + Sap (Coverage is usually above options or Rend)
- Pixilate 2 Coverage + No Sap
- Pixilate Explosion + Hazard
- Poison Heal QD Spin + Sap/Shield (Lazzerpenguin Special)
- Poison Heal QD Magma/Cage + Sap/Shield
- Poison Heal QD Magma/Cage + Nuzzle/Glare
- Poison Heal QD Magma/Cage + Hazard
- Poison Heal QD 3 Attacks (Secret Sword + Cage) (modest secret sword 2hkos regi at +1)
- Poison Heal QD 3 Attacks (Magma + Thunder/Zap Cannon/Volt Switch/Diamond Storm)
- Poison Heal NP + Nuzzle/Glare
- Poison Heal DD/Shift Gear Thousand Waves/Arrows (unexplored guy)
- Poison Heal Clangorous Soul (VERY unexplored guy)
- Poison Heal Setup + Baton Pass
- Poison Heal Moonblast + Knock + Hazard (traditionally it's diamond storm last but you can run other shit) (quojova brought this one!!!)
- Speed Boost SD/NP
- Desolate Land (palk improof)
...and a whole bunch of other fringe shit like TrickScarf, FC/Scales/Prank, PH Teleport, and weather/terrain setter that I didn't list because I've never seen it used.
Before you accuse me of cherry-picking, I will say I think Regigigas, Zamazenta-C, and Etern are each just as flexible.
There Was Literally Nothing I Could Have Done
The main drawback of paralysis is it gives free opportunities to all the PH demons, the thing I just said you shouldn't do, so you always see paralyzers on more passive structures that can't really take advantage of the paralysis so well. Let's look at quojova vs Jqlove. Jqlove has SD + Nuzzle Regigigas which is a stupid matchup fish that quojova exposes as completely fraudulent with the FC Giratina. At least you actually sort of beat opposing Regi/Xern cause you can SD on them I guess. Anyway, Jqlove has to run horrifically passive Etern + Giratina + Zama-C sets just to justify this matchup fish guy that doesn't even work. The game goes about as you'd expect.The point I'm trying to make here is that there's no para spreader that's without concessions. SD Paralysis Regigigas isn't very consistent because Regigigas fundamentally can't break through everything with only one coverage move, and there can also be big problems against Imposter who will get boosted Facade. Paralysis Xerneas has similar problems on top of getting outright countered by healthy Regigigas, especially if you aren't investing in hazards to appropriately limit its entry. Nuzzle RegenVest is just bait for every Poison Heal mon in the game. That leaves only mons like Lunala and Ho-Oh, which I guess are fine but can hardly be called overbearing.
Heal Bell is also just a move. I have this one team with Bounce Anchor/Topsy/Bell/Recover Zama-C, that's a good mon, Nuzzle users try to trade with my Xern and I cure the para and they run away crying. Could probably try the same bullshit in SV. Fuckin, Normalize Screens Pult, Heal Bell Pixilate Valiant, 4 most disgusting setup guys youve ever seen. That's what the hallucinated voices in my head or whatever the fuck are saying.
Overall, para as a primary progress-making tool (e.g. on Regi/Xern) has always been good, and the simplicity of it means that it's hard to mess up, so in environments with all rusty players like HPL it tends to get used a lot. But I don't think para has ever been the single best, most consistent strategy, and I think the recent Tanny vs Nihilslave game proves that. A non-para team would never ever have lost from that position, but the progress just didn't happen and Nihilslave couldn't break through.
BH Offense: The Prequel
Solve my Puzzle: +1 for All, all for One. What set am I?Close-Up Signals (Zygarde-Complete) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- No Retreat
- Baton Pass
- Roost
- Thousand Arrows
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- No Retreat
- Baton Pass
- Roost
- Thousand Arrows
Like COME ON bro. Do you SEE the amount of insane shit that's legal in this tier? Are you Stupid??? I've seen Triage, Simple setup, Lum Moldy NP Etern, deranged setup Xerns, SD Zama-C, Tough Claws Zacian, Explosion/Final Gambit, fuckin No Guard, just, just come on bro. You're actually delusional if you think offense isn't real in this meta.
You can clearly get away with very passive shit too as evidenced by Tanny winning with Ferrothorn / Lunala / Celesteela vs healthy Regigigas / Xern / Etern / Imposter. Stall can pretty consistently make progress with hazard-stack and harassment of removers against most structures; you gotta bring 2 Regigigas counters (ex. Bounce Zama-C + FC Gira, or run something more passive) but that's fine, you can fit em, not like your opponent will run anything below A- rank to catch you. Shoutout Onyx they knew that shit
Conclusion: My Students are all MORONS!!!!!!!!!!!
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