Tournament SCL V NU Discussion

etern

etern

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Welcome to the Smogon Champions League 5 Discussion Thread -- NU edition! This thread will be used to discuss NU in SCL V related topics, whether it’s about the players, personal player rankings, general metagame trends, matches, predictions and so on. Teams, Replays, and Usage Stats can also be found here [SOON].


Commencement
Schedule
Pricelist
Power Rankings

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NU Player Cores
predicted starters in bold*

Studio Gible -- Tuthur, Finchinator, Gilbert arenas.
Orange Islanders -- Django, Kushalos, zS.
Indigo Platoon -- Esteb4n.
Uncharted Terrors -- Shengineer.
Technical Machines -- Dr. Phd. BJ, ishtar.
Mt. Silver Foxes -- Elias PSY, avarice.
Power Plant Dynamos -- McMeghan.
Showdown Shoguns -- S1nn0hC0nfirm3d, 3d, Ninja.
Circuit Breakers -- watashi, OranBerryBlissey.
Arena Spartans -- Danny, etern.​
 
It's with great emotion that I pass the SCL hatewatch baton to my friend Pokeslice. I know I set the bar high last year, but I do also know you've got what it takes. I'm counting on you to criticize all my plays and builds with the same bad faith I showed. Go easy on Django though, his young days are behind him and he could never recover from it.
 
It’s my honor to accept the honor of the SCL hate watcher this year. I will do my best to continue your legacy Tuthur despite how big those shoes are to fill, and of course I’ll take it easy on old man Djaddy, he deserves a hate watch break. Thank you to all my supporters and especially to all my haters for making this happen. I won’t disappoint you.
 
tier 1: mcmeghan / s1nn0hc0nfirm3d
tier 2: shengineer / danny / django / watashi
tier 3: elias psy / esteb4n / dr. phd. bj / tuthur

tier 1: neither is a mainer but both are very strong players that clearly deserve the respect atp. roro I still detest your teams but until people prove they're willing to cteam you I literally can't drop the ranking. s1nn0h definitely will deviate towards offense a ton, but i think this meta will reward that thus propelling him upward my loose pr. neither player really needs dedicated support either imo hence me not worrying about a lack of that on their teams.

tier 2: all of shen/danny/djaddy are highly rated nu mains that i trust to churn out a good record in this pool. all will do an insane amount of prep and routinely have armies of people willing to help with said prep. watashi meanwhile is tier 1 levels of pilot but last scl didn't have the strongest performance and hasn't shown the same ability imo as s1nn0h for example to quickly pick up the tier. he easily could look like a tier 1 dude by the end though and is probably just bringing stories teams the entire tour.

originally i had 4 tiers instead of 3, but i think keeping it at 3 more accurately reflects my general opinions about the players and their situations wrt team help

tier 3: basically just not as strong of pilots nor having as good of support within the team. naturally the latter isnt a huge deal because they'll reach out to others for help, but imo it probably affects general mental if the team can't adequately support the slot if things get bad. elias and esteb4n are probably the two i'm most worried about here because i think some guidance to prevent going off the rails is necessary for their builds at this level, whereas the doc and tooth i find to be weaker pilots than others in the pool despite their building being in general more solid.

there's definitely some clear undrafteds that if managers find it worth reaching out to to ensure the support of would be beneficial to those slots, i.e. diamonds and slice. i probably would've put diamonds in tier 2 tbch if he was drafted but c'est la vie. looking forward to week 1 and seeing what the bo1 meta starts shaping out to be
 
I like Rabia's tier system, and I think it's a more accurate way to view these pools, but as I've been christened the new Hate Watcher today by Tuthur I'll be ranking the pool 1-10 in an unbiased and extremely on point way.

1. Ho3n - this feels wrong to me because I feel like the lack of support will be felt, but I also think Ho3n is the best pilot in the current pool and has shown time and time again that he shouldn't be counted out. That Dura AV Glowbro team looks awful and I hate it, but it somehow keeps working, and I bet I'll say the same thing week in and week out while he grabs a 6-3 record. Worst case here he flips into OU and 3d gets dropped here I guess if things don't work out well.

2. Danny - my hot take for this tournament pre tour was that Danny would end up negative, but now that I look at the pool, I don't really believe it despite my want to hate here. I think he's a cut above a few other players here in the pool and he specifically rises up way above his usual level in SCL because of how much prep he puts in. Despite DugZa mouse slipping and picking etern over me (happens to the best of us), support here will be really good assuming Danny realizes that he should stick to his fat Vap teams and not resort to using etern's Orthworm BOs.

3. Roro - I think this tour we see a solid drop off in Roro's production, but like Rabia said, until someone exposes him by remembering to check their Ditto ability, Roro can't be put lower. We have a lot of offensive tools and new cheese/stall options for Roro to mess with, but we also have a lot more ways to deal with said cheese. No form of creative support here is really uninspiring to me as well which is why Danny is higher because I feel like these types of builders really thrive with people who can throw wacky ideas off of each other. He's a great player though and I expect a 5-4 season instead of a 7-2.

4. BJ - alright, the hot takes start now. I think BJ ends up with the best record in the pool or at least in the top 3. His builds and style are really good for the current meta and his play when he locks in is top notch. I'm a big believer in the power of a top class BJ and I think that's who we see this tournament. Is 4 too higher? Argue with a wall. Now the only reason I'll be wrong here is that I give it 3 weeks before this guy cancers his team entirely with no support and no one that vibes with him there BUT if he can last to midseason auction you know where to find me for the Dr. Phd Slicejob connection. If you or anyone else you know would like to buy NU Forum Slice Ad Space, please DM me directly on Discord to get a quote

5. Shengineer - Shen makes his debut in a really good situation as Shiloh is someone who knows how to deal with the mental aspect of a big tour and can help keep Shen's creativity and enthusiasm for the game consistent and focused. Imo, that's the only issue sometimes with Shen. He spends too much time with Stories now building Momo style frail fat no Steel BO that I think are exploitable when sometimes being less wacky is the right move. This is the time he shines though and I suspect he ends up positive or near .500. No support on paper might seem troubling for a guy as social as Shen, but we all know Loocas was picked up frame 1 to help in that team chat anyways, so it isn't a big deal.

6. Watashi - a good player who had a bad tour finding himself with better support the next time around is a recipe for a bounce back. I wouldn't be shocked to see him end up with a mediocre tour when this is all said and done, but I do think the ceiling is there and much higher than his result last time. Stories in this duo does a lot of heavy lifting imo, not really much else to say here.

7. Elias - I know many will have BJ swapped with Elias here, but here's my second major hot take of the tour: I think Elias has a down year. I tend to view Elias as someone who dominates in cycles. The meta is new -> elias finds some broken something and spams it -> he uses the same structures over and over again to success and comfort -> inconsistencies in the core are shown -> elias gets c teamed -> repeat. In my head, based on gaming I've seen, we're at the end of the "inconsistencies" part of this cycle/the beginning of the "c teamed" part of the cycle as we enter into SCL, the tour which has the highest prep effort of the year. He's been dominant historically, but the slow down is there already record wise and I suspect this isn't a SCL he'll look back favorably on.

8. Django - Djaddy might be a boomer, but I think he's an extremely creative builder and knows this meta well. Realistically, he'll get his wins by grabbing an edge in the builder rather than from any sort of play gap and I think he has all the tools to do so. The lack of support may be an issue because, let's be real, Kush isn't support and zS hasn't touched the tier in at least a year, so let's see how motivated Django will be to find and hone that edge on his own.

9. Esteban - I'm concerned for Esteban this tour. I think the pool level is really good this time around and the Frenchman's debut will be a really tough outing unless he finds a way to be ahead of everyone. This might be an issue though considering that he keeps running pretty telegraphed builds and cores and he doesn't have any form of support to bounce ideas off of when his techs are usually how he patches up his teams weaknesses. I think he's awesome and would be awesome as support or with it, but I think concerns are warranted in this situation.

10. Tuthur - Smogon's favorite racist got lucky in the draft and snuck his way onto a team after abusing his rank to show the auction list publicly to remind managers that he existed. If it isn't clear already, consider my expectations extremely low. We're talking about a guy who's gone 0-7 in a tour not once but TWICE, someone who got smoked in circuit playoffs by POKESLICE, and a man who leads a tier that's third on the SCL waitlist. None of that screams SCL worthy to me, but hey, the power of mod privileges are no joke! See some recent UU drama for another example of what I mean. To make it worse, this team has NO support so who's stopping Tuthur from loading up Tentacruel 3/9 weeks and gifting his opponent a free win. All around flop of the pool no matter how you slice it.
 
always love community thoughts on pools, so I'll leave mine and also mention that yall are sleeping on the shogun's "lack of support". I built many of the winning teams for my NUPL team including ones that supported my own nu open run and ones others stole (sometimes for the worse tho rip shiba stealing my outdated team for poffs). I doubt ho3n actually Needs this support, but it's not like he has literally nobody unless that's his vibe this tour to run it solo. also, he won nupl with mind who also built his own tiebreak team in finals, so again I think it's strange to completely write off the shoguns as no depth in support. if needed, I'd center all my focus and efforts on supporting NU in particular and maybe we'll have some nasty cooks together. shoutouts scarf espeon + tw torn bramble. don't trip don't sleep

to actual personal PRs, ho3n submitted the ones for our team but I had a few thoughts on the pool (minus my player):

1. Roro - in terms of simple Skill especially in a bo1 setting, he is probably the 2nd best player (abr is like +44 on the bo1 sheet) in the entire player pool including every tier. shown time and time again that he's willing to innovate and challenge the norms of teambuilding while also serving as the absolute clutch player for every tournament he joins. motivation has been a factor that held him back previously, but he's with some of his best buddies managing so I'd assume the best for now. he also is lucky asf, but it's not like he's completely robbing games that he should be losing, he just has God willing combined with stellar play and techs. insane combo and incredibly difficult to overcome

2. Elias Psy - I'm sometimes surprised by Elias's standing within the community. from my experience watching all the NUCL, NUPL replays, he's a very strong player and has some of the coolest builds of the entire playerbase with insanity such as specs tera ghost mienshao. he was also my only loss in NUCL and he won it pretty cleanly, so I have to give props for that. he gives me the vibe of a silent grinder who doesn't show off in public and ego people, but is just consistently there and clearly keeps up with the game. 7-3 NUCL + 3-3 NUPL on a struggling team does not show any concerns for me at all. I was actually very worried that he would've been under 10k cuz a lot of NUers went before he got nommed, so while I think his price is pretty high, I think he's clearly deserved his spot as one of the best modern day NUers

3. Danny - Danny in a solid team environment seems like an almost guaranteed positive record to me leaning towards a 6-3. and I know he's got #teamfortnite, so I'm not concerned about activity and motivation like some people may be from NUPL. I think he works well with others and is a very solid pilot. he also has access to a lot of support through his friends, so I'm expecting simple, strong brings and good plays from him

4. watashi - people might be like same year, same tash expectations of 3-4 wins. this year, though, he has the benefit of cashley support who I know is incredibly motivated and will make sure tash's team is prepped and ready to go. will he test his teams? hell nah. maybe once a week. but he is literally the BEST nu player of all time and if the team he's on is even a tiny bit motivating for him to start putting more effort, I can see him ending with a positive record. his play wasn't bad last year and he had negative support, so I'd monitor this one pretty closely. he was surprisingly extremely active for the pablos in NUPL (RIP) and he always has amazing records there, so the breakers just needa figure out how to make him comfortable (hint: anime/amq) and trust him to pilot

5. Shengineer - to be completely honest, I don't understand the hype to its fullest in regard to Sheng (shen?). 4-4 NUCL, 5-4 NUPL are actually pretty solid showings, especially as a relatively newer player in comparison to the overarching SCL playerbase. I'm down to follow the hype of the rest of the community and I also know that he's extremely motivated and confident based on his random smogtour dm to me. he brought a cool team to finals tiebreak in NUPL and was quite literally one play (the eq vs balloon diancie call) from being favored to win the end game. a lot of hype and a lot of pressure in this situation, and unfortunately he has the drawback of shiloh support so hopefully he's able to prep mostly with his friends ....

My unknowns: less commentary as I know less about em

6. Esteb4n - I like some of his cooks tbh. think he makes strong teams that I've taken ideas from myself. I know he's incredibly motivated and has experienced being in an official team tour environment before. 3-3 NUCL, 6-1 NUPL with pretty solid showings in terms of gameplay makes him the standout rookie to me

7. The Doctor - ok honestly, I have no idea how this will go. I heard rumors of motivation issues and struggling to adapt from the previous year, but he has had solid showings in-house in the NU community, so you can maybe assume that the enormous price tag + nerves combination + not vibing with the meta had a big toll on his performance. I think he likely will do better than the previous year, but the big stage ain't for everybody sometimes (lol, me)

8. Django - when doing the cast and predictions last year, I considered jango the Hero of the foxes; the primary shining light in a sea of Tough. his play is pretty consistent and I don't recall seeing egregious misplays or anything, but he has clearly been struggling in the recent NU team tours. if he gets some of that magic and pizazz back from the previous scl, we can see if he cooks

9. Tuthur - I'm glad tuthur is getting his chance here. I don't honestly know too much about his play, but I know he's extremely dedicated and also plays every single low tier PL, and experience is experience. first tour is a lot of pressure (I think I went 2-4 ? or 1-2 in my first nu snake lol) so he will really have to fight to prove that he deserves this.

overall, NU is always my favorite lower tier and I'm looking forward to seeing how it unfolds. and also wishing for ho3n to 9-0 destroy everybody ofc. hope everybody has fun except when you play the shoguns
 
Diamonds_realm said:
Unhinged NU PRs with 0 explanations given

1. Mt. Silver Foxes
2. Uncharted Terrors
3. Arena Spartans
4. Orange Islanders
5. Technical Machines
6. Circuit Breakers
7. Studio Gible
8. Indigo Platoon
9. Showdown Shoguns
10. Power Plant Dynamos
Click to expand...
This original list was exaggerated a bit for entertainment purposes, and now that I've had some time to seriously think about PRs here are my actual rankings based on the presumed starters and my speculations.

1. Mt. Silver Foxes -- Elias PSY: Elias has been one of the most consistent players in this tier for a while now and I've always felt like some of his worse looking team choices this past year post winning circuit has just been him having casual fun messing with us honestly, and with scl here I think the more serious Elias builds are going show up to dominate the NU pool, and this isn't addressing the allegations of being the "luckiest" player in the tier that some people have claimed him to be.

2. Arena Spartans -- Danny: In theory, this slot should preform greatly, Danny has been a strong clicker in whatever tier he plays and etern support should be excellent too. There are a couple things that worry me however and I could see this pulling a complete 180 and becoming disastrous if the stars align just right for it to, but I won't go into too much detail as it is far more likely that they will overcome any of those issues and do great overall.

3. Technical Machines -- Dr. Phd. BJ: Bj didn't have a great showing last scl and after taking a break his results haven't been too stellar since coming back. Despite this however, I have seen a steady return to form over this time and with his motivation likely being at a high and this year's NU pool (to me at least) feeling overall a fair bit weaker than last year I think BJ will hit a stride and do well this tour in the end. There also is not a 21.5k price tag looming over his head this year to stress over.

4. Orange Islanders -- Django: This old man been having his ups and downs recently, but he is still a solid player and builder, and I think he is due for at least a solid positive record this tour. But seriously man, when is the shoe happening!!!!!

5. Uncharted Terrors -- Shengineer: He didn't aura farm into the bench again! Shen is a good player and will be "creative" in the builder but has a tendency to overcook his more creative builds and has been known reuse the teams from time to time even in important games. He will really have to fight for it, but I seem him just managing about a positive 5-4 record.

6. Circuit Breakers -- watashi: watashi put up some middling results last year and I don't see it changing much this year, he has the support of stories but to be honest I haven't been much a fan of her teambuilding in the recent months, so I would favor the OBB support more here at the moment. I don't think watashi will look bad by any means, I expect a lot of his games will be quite close and give us some real nailbiters but come up just short in the end a little more often than not.

7. Power Plant Dynamos -- McMeghan: I really want to put him lower than this honestly, I expect McMeghan to have far less success than last year as really everyone should know his antics by now and be more than equipped to handle them, and without any mainer support I don't see anything other than fishing on the menu. But being a veteran on this site and still phenomenal clicker to this day and some of the players in this pool still having their habits, thus being easier to fish, he will inevitably claim a few wins so I can't rank him any lower. But I also can't rank him higher for the fact this list is my own opinions, and in my opinion, I really, really want to believe that "He can't keep getting away with it!"

8. Studio Gible -- Tuthur: While it is nice to see tuthur finally get a chance at scl, I don't see him being able to keep up with most of this pool. He is no slouch at the game by any means, but I think his role would be better fit as a support than a starter. Allegedly almost never loses to Danny though which is a plus.

9. Showdown Shoguns -- S1nn0hC0nfirm3d: Has clear preferences in team styles, I've seen his personality motive people to want to beat him unlike anything I have ever witnessed before, and also, it's admittedly kinda funny to have him ranked below tuthur.

10. Indigo Platoon -- Esteb4n: Unfortunately suffers from all of his teams looking and feeling very similar and has led to him getting counter-teamed more frequently recently. Great player but without a sudden drastic change in his building in which there is no clear support to help out with, the future is looking a little bleak at the moment. Hopefully esteb4n can find some outside help to vary his team builder more and show off how good he actually is at the game, because he is frankly deserving of a higher spot than this.
 
SV NU: Elias PSY vs Shengineer

Excellent matchup between two players that have had great success in NU. Elias has a knack for winning games unexpectedly and he's typically reliable at collecting wins in SCL. however his year has been slightly muted compared to 2024 so far. Shengineer has had a stronger year, with an NU Seasonal win and positive performances in NUPL, NUCL, and LTWC, however this is his official tournament debut, and it remains to be seen how much nerves will affect him if at all. I have faith that Shen will be able to handle the occasion and I think his unique and envelope-pushing style of building will get him a hard-fought victory here. I expect both of these guys to finish with 5+ wins by the end of the season however.

SV NU: Django vs Esteb4n

Django is coming into this season with his highest pricetag in a decade and a lot to prove. He's had a great year and I think his play and building have both been polished a ton since his return to the scene in 2024. He's also fighting for his life in this pool, as the chef is lurking in the shadows waiting for an opportunity to break out of the prison bench, so he knows every game is crucial. Esteb4n has played a lot of NU for around a year at this point, and has solid fundamentals as well as very sound building tendencies. He's no pushover and I think he'll be fired up to dispel some doubts people have been having over his ability to compete in this pool, imo this is probably the closest match of the week and could go either way. Slight edge to Django who I'm rooting for to do well this year.

SV NU: S1nn0hC0nfirm3d vs McMeghan

Two ridiculously strong players facing off week 1 in a tier they've both dominated before in previous SCLs. I've teamed with S1nnoh on the Gibles for 2 years and have always been impressed by how easily he's able to load something up and pilot it like he's played 200 games with it. He's an aggressively minded player that tends to trend towards offensive builds with unexpected techs, which I think should match up well into the style of team McMeghan gravitates towards. That being said, Roro is a legend of the game for a reason, he can be completely unpredictable, and you know for a fact that you have to take the game from him, because he won't misplay and hand it over to you. Going with S1nn0h but both these guys are likely finishing at the top of the pool, could go either way.

SV NU: Dr. Phd. BJ vs watashi

This was a tough one to predict. BJ has a very impressive NU sheet outside of last SCL, and I think he's quite underrated in general. I also think he's great at reading the meta and tailoring his prep to who he's facing (he's my favorite support teammate I've ever had in an official, SCL 2023). However, watashi is the literal NU goat and my favorite NU player in history, so I have to give him the edge. I think he has the highest ceiling of NU play in the entire pool, his builds are always fun and compliment his playstyle, and I continue to be stunned by people that underestimate him in these tours. Everytime fooly plays NU he's involved in some of the most high quality matches of the tournament, and I expect that to continue. Dont sleep on BJ though, when he's locked in he can compete with the best of the pool and will cause many upsets.
 
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