Tournament SCL V PU Discussion Thread

[DripLegend]

​

Welcome to the Smogon Champions League 4 Discussion Thread -- PU edition! This thread will be used to discuss PU in SCL IV related topics, whether it’s about the players, general metagame trends, matches, predictions and so on.
Commencement Thread
Schedule
Power Rankings TBD
~

PU Player Cores
Managers in italics
Starters in bold
Studio Gible - Gilbert arenas, asa, Tuthur, Feliburn
Orange Islanders - MichaelderBeste2, sufys, zS, feen, Larry
Indigo Platoon - kyuss, Esteb4n
Uncharted Terrors - Drud, DDJoe, pdt, Metallica126, BlackKnight_Gawain
Technical Machines - LpZ, hex, Piyu, ishtar, Hiko
Mt. Silver Foxes - avarice, LOOR, umbry
Power Plant Dynamos - Jytcampbell, Excal
Showdown Shoguns - mind gaming, S1nnohC0nfirm3d, SEA
Circuit Breakers - MZ, OranBerryBlissey10, Stories
Arena Spartans - Void, DugZa, etern, eifo

Some of this info is subject to change, as starting lineups have not yet been released. Please let me know if you have knowledge of some of the starting slots in the less clear teams!

~
Good luck to everyone participating this year, let's make this another fun year!

 

[DD Joe]

Anybody else excited for Delphoxes+Mags SV mashup?

 

[hex]

Personal PRs, not meant to offend etc. etc. all that fun stuff!

1. Orange Islanders - MichaelderBeste2, sufys, zS, feen, Larry - It was hard to decide who should be #1 between Michael and mind, but coming off of a slam win made me just give him the edge. Though a concern would be team quality? I think sufys had a great PUPL and he's no slouch at all but if Michael isn't building then the pressure is on him to deliver (unless Michael gets outside help). I'm sure Michael will be motivated to learn and build himself though cuz I think he ended up on a team he really wanted to end up on. Very excited to watch his games!

2. Showdown Shoguns - mind gaming, S1nnohC0nfirm3d, SEA - I can't say much he owned last SCL and he did it while building his own stuff. I think Sinnoh is pretty unique himself in the way he approaches the tier so I'm not sure they have similar building styles and SEA is probably fine but idk mind if he does his own thing this season shouldn't need help and I'm sure he'll bring similar success to the table like he did last year.

3. Circuit Breakers - MZ, OranBerryBlissey10, Stories - This ranking might be a little high? I'm not sure. The reasoning I put him here is that out of the mainers he has more official experience, and he also has the most experience with the tier compared to the tour players who have to learn the tier in a week. That being said, SVPU is absolutely not a hard tier to learn in it's current state lol.

4. Mt. Silver Foxes - avarice, LOOR, umbry - He just went 9-1 in PUPL. Granted, he plays mostly old gens and doesn't know much of CG, but umbry will be sure to provide him with great teams and he's someone who I trust to pilot said teams. umbry has the capability to bring anyone to a good record solely off her prep and combined with avarice whos undoubtedly motivated to play a full SCL season, he'll hopefully bring the heat.

5. Studio Gible - Gilbert arenas, asa, Tuthur, Feliburn - Tbh I would've liked to see asa starting before passing the torch to Marcop but I again (again because I'm typing this after writing the Spartans excerpt) understand the wanting to put a tour player in PU mentality. I feel like if the effort is here from the Gibles starter to pick up the tier he can do pretty well with asa support.

6. Power Plant Dynamos - Jytcampbell, Excal - b2b champs I'm sure the support will be there etc. etc. but its on Jyt to deliver so its up in the air.

7. Uncharted Terrors - Drud, DDJoe, pdt, Metallica126, BlackKnight_Gawain - Current PUPL champion Drud has the support of his PUPL co-manager, so I'm sure he'll see success this season. I do think some of his SV games in PUPL could've been a bit more refined and in a stage like SCL against players like mind and Michael, he'll need to smooth out those edges which is why I put him this low. That being said, if he's able to lock in this will be a fantastic season for him and I fully believe in him to deliver. There seem to be a lot of cooks in the kitchen here so hopefully it doesn't burn down. I feel like Drud wants the guidance of pdt and will lean towards that more but if pdt is too busy supporting other slots he's probably fine alone. DDJoe will be there to make sure no suspicious behavior is happening if pdt isn't around as much as I think he will be.

8. Indigo Platoon - kyuss, Esteb4n - Glad to see Kyuss here! I think he will have some of the more unique brings this SCL which can catch people off guard and he's overall a good pilot. However, I think if those tech's and such he likes to bring don't pull through he might have a rough season. Him and Esteban is a great builder combo and so I'm pretty excited to see what they cook up together!

9. Arena Spartans - Void, DugZa, etern, eifo - The Spartans took the route of just slapping a tour player in PU and hoping for the best. I do think this was the correct way to approach PU this tour. This is imo just dependent on if DugZa's prep will carry hard enough, and I believe it will, but I'd give everyone else in the pool a slight edge regardless cuz to my zoomer knowledge Void is a DPP OU main and idk what else hes played or if he's delved into any Fairy gens at all and etc. WIshing them the best though :D.

 

[MZ]

Had a very hard time with specific rankings but I do feel like there's a solid 3 tiers that separate my expectations for how people might do beforehand.

Tier 1: Tour players with no reason to doubt a good run
mind gaming is a player that I doubt needs the drafted support he's got in S1nn0h and SEA, owned last year and seems to still have an excellent grasp on the meta with that open run
Michael was excellent last year without sufys support and has only done better in smogon tournaments since then, seems like another no-brainer
Jytcampbell has already been criminally underrated in the one unofficial ranking above me, idt excal support has ever flopped and last year this was a top-notch pair. I do not rank him significantly differently than michael and mind who I think are more sold as the top players in other people's eyes

Tier 2: Mainers with a good shot to do well
Kyuss is the one I'm strongest on despite being the only person in the pool without prior official experience, I just think he's been doing super well recently with builds I really enjoy
LpZ had a solid run last year and only seems to have done better in tours and gotten more into PU since then
Drud has the avengers of support and I'm also very high on him, it's just a hard pool and someone has to be a little lower

Tier 3: People I'm not totally sold on but at least one probably wildly outdoes expectations given past years
Gilbert arenas isn't a player I ever thought would want to start PU and asa support is cool, he's not a player I'm super familiar with though and my impression is he isn't so dominant that you rank him top of any pool you see him in like how people were, for example, gassing up mind gaming hard last year
avarice LOOR is such a weird combo that I just have no idea what to think, both have spent time popping off and flopping so yeah
Void has some of the best support someone who isn't heavily invested in SV PU could ask for in theory in doug+etern, but I'm lowering my expectations purely due to last year's spartans performance. If Doug couldn't get Soulwind a good performance then I no longer feel completely sold that whoever he supports is going to do well, even if I personally know how good his support can be at getting someone to overshoot expectations

 

[Theycallmephil]

Unbiased Personal PRs from the least qualified mainer in history.

#1 Orange Islanders - MichaelderBeste2, sufys, zS, feen, Larry
Obviously great player, not a mainer at 1 unfortunately but I mean someone this good with the quality of support he has kinda has to be number 1 imo.

#2 Power Plant Dynamos - Jytcampbell, Excal
Honestly might have a higher ceiling than #1...if he had the same level of help. I think jyt proved last year he can truly be excellent down here, especially if he picks up on the meta trends fast. Unfortunately it is exclusively up to excal and anyone they pull in from the outside to help him do that. I still have faith tho.

#3 Showdown Shoguns - mind gaming, S1nnohC0nfirm3d, SEA
I dont expect mind to exactly dominate but the ideas he has and his great fundamentals+rumors hes kept up more actively than those above him make me think he'll certainly do well.

#4 Uncharted Terrors - Drud, DDJoe, pdt, Metallica126, BlackKnight_Gawain
Holy support what the fuck. Drud already has a high ceiling in PU and if he really try hards I think may be the most surprising player here. But with this much support any lower than here feels ridiculous.

#5 Studio Gible - Gilbert arenas, asa, Tuthur, Feliburn
A little surprised asa isnt starting but I think she's still gonns do great things in the builder. I expect a cool season out of this, but ultimately towards the middle of the pack.

#6 Indigo Platoon - kyuss, Esteb4n
These will be the funnest teams this season. I do wish kyuss had a little bit more help reeling himself in for his intro to the big stage but Esteb4n is no slouch in the builder. Will be cool fs

#7 Circuit Breakers - MZ, OranBerryBlissey10, Stories
I dont have that much to stay here other than this teams been a bit high on prs ive seen recently, MZ has been fairly consistent sure but I just font think the peaks are there to climb into the top half of this pool. Support is good but not out of the ordinary. Expecting average things.

#8 Arena Spartans - Void, DugZa, etern, eifo
Im choosing to trust dugzas vision and eterns support more than most seem to be. I think void has the support and the skills to do fine in this pool especially if eterns active in that prep channel.

#9 Technical Machines - LpZ, hex, Piyu, ishtar, Hiko
More great support but for a starter who is definitely a bit weaker in this tier than say ur Druds or kyuss yk. Expect this guy to randomly make me look stupid lol.

#10 Mt. Silver Foxes - avarice, LOOR, umbry
Well avarice had a great pupl but like
Idt the ceiling is crazy here like he kinda hit that best he could do in pupl. Also what are we doing on these support picks we got loor and umbry? Look to loors credit atleast hes been seen around PU this uh..year.

Just my quick thoughts, nothin too srs

 

[Excal]

non-mainer personal rankings & random thoughts, excluding my player:

tldr

1. mind gaming
2. michaelderbeste2
3. mz
4. lpz
5. gilbert arenas
6. void
7. drud
8. avarice
9. kyuss

writeups

1. mind gaming - best sv pu player

2. michaelderbeste2 - heute (solid, same combo last year that worked with sufys, who's probs the best "mainer" support u can get, etc)

3. mz - rough start last year but converted into a really nice season, beating several tough opps. easily the best in the pool from the pu community. the question will be if he can replicate last year's success for a 9+ week season. dunno how much obb is involved but mz should be fine on his own

4. lpz - this guy is truly great at pokemon, but i feel he is better suited to ou. he got owned last year when shifts hit, probably because he isn't really a builder and the tier's climate changes a lot to favor more active builders once shifts occur. whether ishtar can be a dedicated support throughout a season is what this may come down to. think the potential is there but we haven't seen it yet. this ranking is high mainly cuz lpz is a great player and i think the machines are a much better team than last year's platoon. either way, wouldn't be surprised if hiko eventually ends up here with lpz switching to ou if this goes bust

5. gilbert arenas - marco has a history of successful adaptation to low tiers and tremendous consistency on the official stage. the dude is good af when he's on his game. however, seems like he's been a bit more volatile in recent time with his gameplay. probably significantly less invested overall. that said, i think marco shines the most when he builds his own teams and defines the tier by his own interpretation. if he dotes too much on others to provide him teams, i do not think he will have the sharpness he is known for ingame

6. void - last year, the spartans had probably the most disastrous pu campaign of all time, with managerial support and over 25k spent on drafted support and one of the best players of all time netting only one non-activity win for an entire season. this evidently brings a lot of skepticism to how the spartans will perform given that they have similar support to last year. that said, i think they have better chances this year to perform well. since last year, dugza has evolved a lot as a player, having stronger results in officials and holding more experience as opposed to being quite green beforehand. as for the player, void is someone who really only has a ton of success in dpp, but if you've watched his games over the past two years, his ingame has really leveled up. the dude is just hella clean at clicking, and if his motivation is there, he has all the skills needed to farm this pool. the biggest question is whether dugza can translate their experience into supporting a non-building, non-pu playing slot to a positive record

7. drud - i think drud is a legitimate competitor, and i'm glad they're finally getting the chance for a full season. think he's still a bit raw and perhaps needs to improve his mentality and not let tilt show too much ingame, but i see a lot of potential and significant development since the guy i faced 7 years ago crying about hax in pokemon perfect tournaments. main thing holding this ranking back is lack of experience and official results compared to the top 6. ppl seem to harp a lot on the quantity of "support", but in practice there's no way pdt is slaving for this slot, and the others, well, haven't ever seen em supporting anyone in this setting. i'm sure it'll be useful ofc, but yea quality > quantity and i prefer to evaluate drud as an individual competitor unless they have someone very established helping them closely

8. avarice - he's pretty decent. think he can beat some ppl ranked above him but if someone's rly better as a player it seems p bleak. not expecting them to load good teams unless they're stolen but who knowz. big fan of umbry but i doubt she's doing much here, esp cuz it seems literally every one of these discussion threads is glazing her support in every tier

9. kyuss - 0 official experience; the other 8 have a lot more. not rly familiar so i put at the bottom but it's pkmn and we see last ranks pop off and top seasons every tournament. best of luck and congratulations on securing your debut

 

[AJ]

DripLegend ty for leaving me off. Now I don't need to help mz prep.

Asa gotta be one of the best players in their respective tier to sit the bench that I've seen. R.I.P.

 

[hex]

Mt. Silver Foxes vs Uncharted Terrors
SV PU: avarice vs Drud

Pretty heat matchup week 1 imo. There's 1: PUPL lore, but also, someone who just won it playing mostly CG, and the other one who had a hot streak playing not CG. avarice has generally been on a tear in the past year and my bias is probably peeking through but outside of me wanting him to win I think he will just from a skill standpoint. He has some great minds behind him in terms of prep and I'm sure he'll be building for himself mostly anyway which will be harder to navigate for Drud. Drud on the other hand has more experience and is backed by a lot of great PU mains on his team and will have plenty of resources to stay in shape while coming off of great momentum. I think him and the mags had a great grasp on the meta and we'll definitely see that coming into SCL. Still favoring avarice as I think he's more used to a game on this stage.

Arena Spartans vs Studio Gible
SV PU: Void vs Gilbert arenas

I'm not really sure what to think here. Both players have great support, and assuming a neutral matchup I would probably favor Marcop to win. I think both DugZa and asa are really creative builders and should take the chance to use guys who have never played the tier before as their guinea pigs for some heat / tech as its more likely to catch the other non-experienced player off guard. I will give the Gible's a slight edge here since I feel like I've seen Marcop play varied tiers before but haven't seen Void outside of DPP OU. That being said, DugZa will dm me "I see how it is" after I post this prediction, so I'll take this time to say I'd love for Void to win. Seeing him outside of DPP is shiest and this will definitely be an interesting game.

Orange Islanders vs Indigo Platoon
SV PU: MichaelderBeste2 vs kyuss

This is an insanely tough pull for kyuss in his first(?) official game. It's pretty much impossible to not bold Michael but I hope kyuss can pull out a win here. As a player, it's a no-brainer to favor Michael here, but this game is not unwinnable for Kyuss. Admittedly I didn't catch his PUPL games but I will say I think he can win in builder pretty easily which can turn the tide in his favor. But for now, bolding against Michael would be sinful.

Showdown Shoguns vs Power Plant Dynamos
SV PU: mind gaming vs Jytcampbell

I was watching some of mg's slam replays for PU (and some SCL ones from last year) and he's heat asf in builder (and in game obviously). Excal clearly picks up the tier quite fast / easily year in and year out but I dont think the 2x champs Excal Luthier support true combo is gonna be enough to defeat the mind.

This pool is fire and will have banger games every week. Good luck to everyone and go Machines!

 

[DripLegend]

without further ado... Week 1 is upon us!!!

Mt. Silver Foxes vs Uncharted Terrors
SV PU: avarice vs Drud

Arena Spartans vs Studio Gible
SV PU: Void vs Gilbert arenas

Orange Islanders vs Indigo Platoon
SV PU: MichaelderBeste2 vs kyuss

Showdown Shoguns vs Power Plant Dynamos
SV PU: mind gaming vs Jytcampbell

Technical Machines vs Circuit Breakers
SV PU: LpZ vs MZ

Good luck to all participants!!

Prediction Format

SV PU: avarice vs Drud
SV PU: Void vs Gilbert arenas
SV PU: MichaelderBeste2 vs kyuss
SV PU: mind gaming vs Jytcampbell
SV PU: LpZ vs MZ

 

[MZ]

SV PU: avarice vs Drud
SV PU: Void vs Gilbert arenas
SV PU: MichaelderBeste2 vs kyuss
SV PU: mind gaming vs Jytcampbell

Will start writing after a week of seeing how people do. Interesting to get mind jyt so early, that’s a matchup I feel like would be extra good in playoffs

 

[asa]

SV PU: avarice vs Drud (highlight)

Pretty cool to see two of the more successful players from PUPL XI play week one, especially since their teams met in the finals there. I'd argue more is going for Drud here, since he's been grinding SV PU for more time lately than avarice, only lost two(?) games in the tier in PUPL, won the entire tour, and managed to end up with Magmortars stalwarts pdt and Gawain on his side again. The main question mark is whether Drud's lack of experience on the big stage will get the better of him, which is something avarice (and most of the pool) aren't as worried about. avarice has more than just a fighting chance here, it just depends on how quickly he can reacclimate to the tier.

SV PU: MichaelderBeste2 vs kyuss

kyuss put up a remarkable PUPL performance and has an extensive bag of tricks, and we did see IMDB lose his w1 game last year to some trickery, but that was before he grew accustomed to SV PU. I would really like to see an upset here, especially since it's kyuss's debut and I feel like he cares a lot more now that he's nearly done training in the ZU mountains.

SV PU: mind gaming vs Jytcampbell (highlight)

Genuinely unreal to see this matchup in the very first week. Both sides have similarly creative building going for them and are similarly talented in battle, but mind gaming is more proven in the tier. Excal has made it clear that he's been grinding PU; for Jyt, though, it feels like a similar case to avarice where I need to see how quickly he can readjust to things.

SV PU: LpZ vs MZ
Both of these two ended their last season playing each other and start this season doing it again. This is probably the toughest game to call, if only because I'm not totally sure what either side is cooking, but I'll give the edge to MZ. I do like LpZ's support more and value him in-game a lot, but MZ operated under similar conditions last year and ended up doing quite well, so I have hope he can start on a better note this time around.

This pool is fire and will have banger games every week. Good luck to everyone and go Gibles!