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What If? - Alternate Timelines (AT #10g: Caribolt - Stats Voting)

And with that, Grass/Rock squeaks out a win with a whopping 5 votes!

With AT Caribolt's typing in place, we are ready to move onto discussion about its secondary/hidden ability (as being a starter locks the primary as Overgrow).

I don't really have any questions to articulate here, but I do want to see discussion on what moves Grass and Rock can give to AT Caribolt and how those can apply to specific abilities and what would be the best path to execute these combos as we move towards a slate.

I will be back with a slate by the end of the week, but for now get all your thoughts out there!
 
Already had this written up from the Discord server discussion so posting here for posterity. This list is by no means definitive but should serve to inform discussion as we begin.

Notable Moves: Seed Flare, Energy Ball, Apple Acid, Drum Beating, Grav Apple, Matcha Gatcha, Trop Kick, Syrup Bomb, Trailblaze, Meteor Beam, Diamond Storm, Paleo Wave, Rock Slide, Stone Axe, Ancient Power, Rock Tomb
Notable Abilities: Sheer Force, Serene Grace
Notable Moves: Chloroblast, Wood Hammer, Head Smash
Notable Abilities: Magic Guard, Rock Head, Reckless
Notable Moves: Power Whip, Seed Flare, Syrup Bomb, Head Smash, Stone Edge
Notable Abilities: No Guard, Compound Eyes, Victory Star, Hustle
Notable Moves: Flower Trick, Leaf Blade, Stone Edge
Notable Abilities: Super Luck, Sniper
Notable Moves: Leaf Blade, Mighty Cleave, Stone Axe
Notable Abilities: Sharpness
Notable Moves: Bullet Seed, Rock Blast
Notable Abilities: Skill Link, Technician
Notable Moves: Leech Seed, Spiky Shield, Salt Cure
Notable Abilities: Rough Skin, Iron Barbs, Sand Stream
 
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surprised that no one's built off of Azoth's really nice list so might as well be the first to do it by sharing some of my favorite options

Sheer Force is probably one of my favorite Abilities for this simply because of the wide variety of moves with secondary effects we have access to. It'd allow a lot of creativity with the stat and defining move stages while still providing a simple and easy to execute path forward.

Any one of the recoil options provide a clear but interesting path forward. Of these my favorite is probably Rock Head because STAB Wood Hammer and Head Smash without recoil go brrrrrrr (basically we'd be making Hisuian Arcanine but Grass type and that's really funny to me). Magic Guard is also pretty neat as it's essentially a souped up combo of Sheer Force and Rock Head, but perhaps a bit too powerful.

Sharpness is a really simple option, only affecting two possible moves in Leaf Blade and Stone Axe, but it's a really effective one that defines a pretty clear path for us going forward as a "Kleavor but better."

The defensive Abilities are really intriguing for me as a potential path forward - it'd make us kinda like Shox in a way as we'd be working with a typing that has a lot of neutralities, not many resistances, and a few key weaknesses to make a wall. Of the defensive Abilities Azoth proposed, my favorite is definitely Sand Stream because the combo of Leech Seed + Salt Cure + Sandstorm chip sounds absolutely disgusting to me in the best way possible, but I also wanted to bring up a couple other options Azoth didn't mention in his post. Water Absorb and Earth Eater help to compensate for Grass/Rock's mediocrity as a defensive typing by turning one of its neutralities into an immunity, while Grassy Surge and Seed Sower allow for another form of recovery via Grassy Terrain while turning Earthquake from a neutrality to a resistance.
 
Alright I almost forgot to sub my ability ideas lol

First up, Technician could work with the combo of Bullet Seed and Rock Blast, allowing pretty reliable offensive strength. Technician can also pair alongside weaker moves, such as Grass moves with unique effects like Trailblaze or Rock moves like Rock Tomb which can patch up Rock's accuracy issue. Both types have priority moves to be boosted as well, Accelerock and Grassy Glide, albeit the latter requiring G-Terrain.

I'm also a fan of Sharpness as Star said above, access to STAB 135 BP Leaf Blade is a very unique strength and Stone Axe is fun too considering Kleavor's poor typing and performance in the current meta.

Not a huge fan of Sheer Force since a lot of these Grass and Rock moves have really neat special effects and I think removing them for just a simple offensive boost is a little boring, just my opinion though.

Defensively I'm fond of Corrosion, which allows us to prevent Steel types from sitting in front of AT10g, and can be even more annoying in combo with Leech Seed, Strength Sap, and/or Salt Cure. Purifying Salt is also in general an insane defensive ability since we don't have any natural status immunities with our typing.
 
I would personally prefer Magic Guard to Rock Head here because our most obvious competition is going to be Cornerstone (and honestly Wellspring too), and one very real way to set ourselves apart from that mon is to ignore hazards entirely forever. I guess it also works with Chloroblast while Rock Head doesn't. Mixed wallbreaker with Head Smash Chloroblast is a BUILD.

Sand Stream is really cool and probably my favorite option, because it has both indirect synergies (increased bulk helping stall turns with passive damage; combines more effectively than standard stat boosts with other spdef boosting like quiver dance; sand chip stacking with other passive damage sources) and direct ones (Shore Up, and honestly Weather Ball hits notably harder than power gem). It’s one of the cooler less obvious options.

Sharpness is probably the most straightforward way to tackle this concept. It has a ton of both STAB and non-STAB direct move synergies, and options like Sacred Sword and Night Slash/Ceaseless Edge cover steels like Gambit and Ghold that our STABs miss out on. The only downside of this ability (as well as technician) is that it's ONLY boosting damage, which feels a little tame compared to some of these other options.

Grassy Surge with recoil moves is worth looking at because it both helps heal off recoil damage and boosts grass STAB. Also gives us an unreliable pseudo ground resist.

Wanted to think through things a bit more but been super busy. Lotta cool routes though
 
Okay so after a few more responses that may or may not have been prompted in CAPcord it is time for the slate!

Magic Guard
Sand Stream
Technician
 Sharpness

Went short and sweet here because I feel like these 4 kinda eat the power budget up a bit but allow us to have a chance at "viability" so I will give 24 hours to get your votes in!
 
And with 4 votes, Sharpness has taken the cake!

Now for us to quickly go through defining moves (which will probably be super straightforward with our ability) but because of that, I propose to y'all what moves should receive penalties in terms of being defining whether that be STAB or coverage moves?

I will try to move onto stats by end of the week, but for now try to discuss the sole question I have proposed as well as more thoughts any of y'all may have.
 
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