Discussion Vulpix-Alola in SM LC

tazz

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After extensive discussions on forums and on discord, LC Leadership is looking to suspect Vulpix-Alola in SM LC. Vulpix is the only setter of one of the most infamous team structures in the metagame: Aurora Veil. Veil has always been a strong team structure in this tier. It was outshined by Webs as the premier cheese when SM was current gen because Webs had the advantage in the cheese mirror. Without the presence of Webs teams after the move was banned post gen, Veil became a constant presence in almost every tour, only increasing in usage year by year.

There are plenty of ways to prep for Veil teams, and they have serious difficulty overcoming pokemon like Abra and Timburr who can stop its powerful sweepers. However, when you consider that 1. the player facing veils has to play perfectly to win, as even a turn wrong can result in one of the sweepers snowballing, and 2. Veils features sweepers like NP vullaby and ZHB scraggy that can flinch past their checks, Veils teams can put together a matchup spread that justifies frequent use even at the highest level. There also aren't that many players left who can execute perfectly in SM LC - for newer players Veil teams have proven incredibly difficult to defeat, as shown by how ubiquitous they are in LC Classic.

Use this thread to discuss whether or not Vulpix-Alola should be banned. We are not looking to ban the move Aurora Veil itself, nor will we consider Light Clay at this time. We will put up the suspect in about a week. The people in the hide tag below are eligible to vote, either though SM Cup, LCPL, LCBC, or SMPL

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veil is probably broken and if vulpix is the target for policy reasons then it's fine, I'll probably vote ban. There are just so many ways veil can cheese you, and with the dynamic of trapping with lead diglett into veil and how easily smth like dd scraggy or clamperl can just ohko an entire team with a free turn among other things it's felt very powerful. It has counterplay but the counterplay isn't that easy, and I've found myself in games where I've literally just had to hope I guess right on something like a scraggy's last move because I either have to attack it on a predict or stall veil so the next mon doesn't instantly beat me. Not much is lost if it's banned, vulpix could be a cool mon without the cheese but that's the cost of getting rid of it. Also for the voting reqs it would be nice to specify how exactly you picked these players from these tournaments just for transparancy's sake like most old gen suspects have.
 
only got into playing sm this year, and between SMPL and SM Cup I only faced veils once, but I was absolutely paranoid every time about seeing it. Better players than myself have laid out the arguments in more detail but yeah I think its just too punishing for player facing veils, its like walking on a tightrope one small mistake and it doesn't matter how well you did before that point. The tier already can be kind of volatile with gen 7 just having so many options alongside z moves and hidden power, I think banning veils helps bring the tier into a more stable state. At its best I think SM can be really fun, I was a hater before I really started playing it, and I think voting ban here is the right call.
 
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