FUCK I WAS PLANNING ON YOU NOT ACOUNTING FOR THE D TIER POKEMON THE BIT IS RUINED
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Projects National Dex Ubers Teambuilding Competition
- Thread starter Sami
- Start date
A Sticky Web team with Mewtwo.
Explosion is favored to punish passive maneuvers from Toxic + Defog Ho-Oh and Toxic + Defog Giratina.
Further, it facilitates elimination of opposing Smeargle if Sticky Web was not set owing to paralysis.
168 Attack enables Explosion to destroy Mega Salamence's, Zygarde's, Kyurem-Black's, and Zekrom's Substitutes.
Own Tempo proscribes interference from Salamence's Intimidate.
Mind Plate ensures longevity and a respectable chance to annihilate defensive Ho-Oh with +2 Psystrike.
Primal Kyogre survives Adamant Zacian-C's Wild Charge and Jolly Zacian-C's Wild Charge after Stealth Rock.
Tera Stellar Marshadow permits for this wondrous interaction:
252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Marshadow Close Combat vs. 32 HP / 8 Def Yveltal: 377-445 (94 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
The remainder is standard.
Be verily cautious of Toxic Spikes.
Explosion is favored to punish passive maneuvers from Toxic + Defog Ho-Oh and Toxic + Defog Giratina.
Further, it facilitates elimination of opposing Smeargle if Sticky Web was not set owing to paralysis.
168 Attack enables Explosion to destroy Mega Salamence's, Zygarde's, Kyurem-Black's, and Zekrom's Substitutes.
Own Tempo proscribes interference from Salamence's Intimidate.
Mind Plate ensures longevity and a respectable chance to annihilate defensive Ho-Oh with +2 Psystrike.
Primal Kyogre survives Adamant Zacian-C's Wild Charge and Jolly Zacian-C's Wild Charge after Stealth Rock.
Tera Stellar Marshadow permits for this wondrous interaction:
252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Stellar Marshadow Close Combat vs. 32 HP / 8 Def Yveltal: 377-445 (94 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
The remainder is standard.
Be verily cautious of Toxic Spikes.
Last edited:
came up with this team in 5 minutes.
Weird ass scarfdon semistall
Originally a Toxic Spikes team, I swapped out Eternatus from Fezandipiti to accomplish something similar with wearing them down with toxic while also having more pivot support.
Weird ass scarfdon semistall
Originally a Toxic Spikes team, I swapped out Eternatus from Fezandipiti to accomplish something similar with wearing them down with toxic while also having more pivot support.
CYCLIZAR OFFENSE 
Flashbacks to NDFL II with Shed Tail Scarf Cyclizar. Combine it with Shadow Shield from Lunala and a lot of Pokemon become almost complete setup fodder for it, like Glimmora, Zygarde, and support Arceus formes. The combination of Primal Kyogre and Yveltal lets us anti-lead Primal Groudon pretty nicely (Yveltal into the Precipice Blades, Kyogre into the Overheat/Rock Tomb). Yveltal + Lunala gives us a better matchup against Stall too. Tera Flying Yveltal is neat for Arceus-Fairy, although any Tera Type would work. Primal Groudon is needed for a Zacian-C answer, and to provide Stealth Rock, while Zacian-C itself is needed for Extreme Killer Arceus and faster threats like Marshadow.
Flashbacks to NDFL II with Shed Tail Scarf Cyclizar. Combine it with Shadow Shield from Lunala and a lot of Pokemon become almost complete setup fodder for it, like Glimmora, Zygarde, and support Arceus formes. The combination of Primal Kyogre and Yveltal lets us anti-lead Primal Groudon pretty nicely (Yveltal into the Precipice Blades, Kyogre into the Overheat/Rock Tomb). Yveltal + Lunala gives us a better matchup against Stall too. Tera Flying Yveltal is neat for Arceus-Fairy, although any Tera Type would work. Primal Groudon is needed for a Zacian-C answer, and to provide Stealth Rock, while Zacian-C itself is needed for Extreme Killer Arceus and faster threats like Marshadow.
GDarm Dual Pivot Offense 
Wanted mostly to toe the line between offense/BO while still having a good matchup into webs. I wanted to build around the core of GDarm and Mega Diancie. This is a decently good anti-offense core, completely shutting down Smeargle and OHKOing common offense staples, such as Zacian and Eternatus (with Gdarm). Then, I added Fezandipiti, for it can check and pivot out on many special threats. Deoxys is Tera Ghost to provide an out against EKiller Arceus. At this time, I had 5 mons on the squad, and it seemed weak to a lot of physical threats like DD Arceus-Ground, Mega Salamence, and, of course, Ultra Necrozma. I wanted to slot in an answer that still had bulk, but was a threat in its own right. Dragon Dance Zygarde fits the bill, but maybe Coil would be better here? No removal does suck, but smart play with Mega Diancie will hopefully curb that issue. In summary, pivot in your main threats and avoid hazards like the plague.
Wanted mostly to toe the line between offense/BO while still having a good matchup into webs. I wanted to build around the core of GDarm and Mega Diancie. This is a decently good anti-offense core, completely shutting down Smeargle and OHKOing common offense staples, such as Zacian and Eternatus (with Gdarm). Then, I added Fezandipiti, for it can check and pivot out on many special threats. Deoxys is Tera Ghost to provide an out against EKiller Arceus. At this time, I had 5 mons on the squad, and it seemed weak to a lot of physical threats like DD Arceus-Ground, Mega Salamence, and, of course, Ultra Necrozma. I wanted to slot in an answer that still had bulk, but was a threat in its own right. Dragon Dance Zygarde fits the bill, but maybe Coil would be better here? No removal does suck, but smart play with Mega Diancie will hopefully curb that issue. In summary, pivot in your main threats and avoid hazards like the plague.
Last edited:
Kimberly Chen (Ribombee Hyper Offense):
https://pokepast.es/30dad2c8047af3cf
This is similar to Sami's Arceus-Ground + Wallbreaker Primal Kyogre Webs team (it's on the National Dex Ubers sample teams page).
However, my team instead uses Ribombee (rather than Shuckle).
I would rather use Ribombee for shutting down opposing Sticky Web leads (especially, but not only Smeargle).
Also, use Marshadow (rather than Zacian-C) to check Extreme Killer Arceus.
This team's Marshadow has Hidden Power Ice for dealing with Zygarde and Mega Salamence.
https://pokepast.es/30dad2c8047af3cf
This is similar to Sami's Arceus-Ground + Wallbreaker Primal Kyogre Webs team (it's on the National Dex Ubers sample teams page).
However, my team instead uses Ribombee (rather than Shuckle).
I would rather use Ribombee for shutting down opposing Sticky Web leads (especially, but not only Smeargle).
Also, use Marshadow (rather than Zacian-C) to check Extreme Killer Arceus.
This team's Marshadow has Hidden Power Ice for dealing with Zygarde and Mega Salamence.
Last edited:
Voting is up:
1) Mind Plate Mewtwo HO by SIARFN
2) Choice Scarf Groudon Balance by Cancel Cult
3) Arceus-Water Balance
by TheShowdownHero
4) Cyclizar Offense by Sami
5) Galarian Darmanitan Offense by Rothcore
6) Ribombee Webs
by tastygimmick
7) Galarian Darmanitan BO 
by Planet
Voting ends on Sunday 5th of October!
1) Mind Plate Mewtwo HO
by SIARFN2) Choice Scarf Groudon Balance
by Cancel Cult3) Arceus-Water Balance
by TheShowdownHero4) Cyclizar Offense
by Sami5) Galarian Darmanitan Offense
by Rothcore6) Ribombee Webs
by tastygimmick7) Galarian Darmanitan BO
by PlanetVoting ends on Sunday 5th of October!
I vote for Team 1
And the winner is... Mind Plate Mewtwo HO by SIARFN!
Next Pokemon is...
Calyrex-I cements itself as one of the tier's best wallbreakers due to its immense power and spammable STAB move. It also has outstanding bulk, making it a solid trading tool against Dragon Dance Zygarde and Extreme Killer Arceus. Additionally, it may also be used on hyper offense teams, such as Trick Room or more standard HO teams, with its Offensive Trick Room set for the latter. How will you build around it? Voting will start Sunday 12th of October.
by SIARFN!Next Pokemon is...
Calyrex-Ice @ Choice Band
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Atk / 12 Def or 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 SpD
Tera Type: Steel / Fire / Ice
Adamant Nature
- Glacial Lance
- High Horsepower
- Trick
- Aromatherapy
Calyrex-Ice @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Never-Melt Ice / Weakness Policy
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Tera Type: Fire / Steel
Brave Nature
- Trick Room
- Swords Dance
- Glacial Lance
- High Horsepower
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Atk / 12 Def or 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 SpD
Tera Type: Steel / Fire / Ice
Adamant Nature
- Glacial Lance
- High Horsepower
- Trick
- Aromatherapy
Calyrex-Ice @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Never-Melt Ice / Weakness Policy
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Tera Type: Fire / Steel
Brave Nature
- Trick Room
- Swords Dance
- Glacial Lance
- High Horsepower
We're so back
For those of you new here, this is FUCK ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!? WHY UNFUUNY?!?!
For those of you new here, this is FUCK ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!? WHY UNFUUNY?!?!
Band Caly-Ice
Balancy team with a decent matchup into everything.
Balancy team with a decent matchup into everything.
Voting is up:
1) Scarf Horse by unfuuny
2) Scarf Horse (again) by Cancel Cult
3) Band Horse by Rothcore
Lasts until Friday 17th October!
1) Scarf Horse
by unfuuny2) Scarf Horse (again)
by Cancel Cult3) Band Horse
by RothcoreLasts until Friday 17th October!
I vote for team three
Scarf Horse solidarity, I vote team 1.
And the winner is... Band Horse by Rothcore!
Next Pokemon is...
The PLZA hype is real, with Offensive Zygarde being an absolute menace in some games. Dragon Dance variants can find multiple setup oppurtunities thanks to Substitute, Tera Ground, and its absurd bulk after Power Construct, while Trapper variants can potentially win games on the spot if played correctly. Although the oppurtunity cost of not using defensive Zygarde is very high against Pokemon such as Marshadow and offensive Primal Groudon, the power and disruption caused by offensive Zygarde can be enough to justify its place on a team, as shown multiple times in NDPL. How will you build around the current star of Legends Z-A? Voting will start on Friday 24th of October.
by the way Mega Zygarde is absolutely busted broken if it gets to keep Nihil Light when transferred.
by Rothcore!Next Pokemon is...
Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 12 HP / 216 Atk / 48 SpD / 232 Spe
Tera Type: Ground
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Substitute
- Dragon Tail
OR
Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 80 HP / 204 Atk / 224 Def
Tera Type: Water / Poison
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Dragon Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Rest
OR
Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 248 HP / 48 Def / 80 SpD / 132 Spe
Tera Type: Water / Poison
Careful Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Coil
- Scale Shot
- Rest
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 12 HP / 216 Atk / 48 SpD / 232 Spe
Tera Type: Ground
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Substitute
- Dragon Tail
OR
Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 80 HP / 204 Atk / 224 Def
Tera Type: Water / Poison
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Dragon Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Rest
OR
Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 248 HP / 48 Def / 80 SpD / 132 Spe
Tera Type: Water / Poison
Careful Nature
- Thousand Waves
- Coil
- Scale Shot
- Rest
by the way Mega Zygarde is absolutely busted broken if it gets to keep Nihil Light when transferred.
Ah, the moment I verily anticipate.
Herein is a team catered for hunter Zygarde.
Alolan Persian confers speed control and may sacrifice itself to frustrate a Calm Mind Arceus with Thunder Wave. Remarkably, it outpaces Adamant Ultra Necrozma and Adamant Mega Salamence at +1, alongside +2 Double Dance Primal Groudon and below. Moreover, via Fur Coat, it weathers +2 Life Orb Extreme Speed from Arceus after Stealth Rock and a measly chance--6.3%--to succumb to +2 Tera Normal Silk Scarf Extreme Speed from full--rather astounding, I daresay!
Fake Out may be supplanted by moves in this permutation: Toxic, Switcheroo, Knock Off, and Parting Shot.
Be apprised that Fake Out is vital for thieving a turn from faster Dragon Dance Pokemon that were inflicted poison.
This is the singular threat--a Jolly Ultra Necrozma with X-Scissor:
+1 248 Atk Neuroforce Necrozma-Ultra X-Scissor vs. 16 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Persian-Alola: 212-252 (77 - 91.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
EDIT 10/19/25: This was beforehand a Choice Scarf Meowth team. I do verily jest with Meowth; however, for Alolan Persian, I have naught but utmost praise and deference. This is impressive in earnest--the two exploits it boasts. Terastal need not be expended as much against Arceus in apt conditions, contrary to similar Choice Scarf users.
Dragon Tail ensures Primal Groudon is nay an opportunity for Dragon Dance Arceus-Ground.
Zygarde is bestowed an HP value as Zygarde-Complete most apt for streamlining Leftovers recovery; ere it survives uninvested Ice Beam from any relevant Arceus forms from full as base Zygarde. Thereof outstrips traditional Double Dance Primal Groudon; so, it can Coil first before biding a +2 Precipice Blades. At +6, a 4-hit Scale Shot will destroy support Ho-Oh.
Truly, a wistful sight--my last use of this Pokemon was in Generation 8 National Dex Anything Goes.
I am confident the remainder is transparent in their responsibilities, like an undisturbed stream.
Last edited:
Glass Houses
Prepare yourselves for this one.
This team started with a plan. A plan to handle webs. Mega Diancie is a nice answer to Smeargle in theory, but it's also really obvious, and they are probably not going to lead Smeargle if they see Mega Diancie. If they have a good anti-lead for it, then you won't be able to deny webs forever. Denying it temporarily is still good, but I'm not satisfied with that. Smeargle will still come in, and Smeargle will still set webs. But what I'm more worried about is Smeargle itself.
It's no secret I hate Smeargle. Counterplay heavily depends on what status move it's running, which is something you can really only guess. Combine that with the potential for Mortal Spin, and Smeargle can really catch you off guard and ruin your plans. If I know what Smeargle has, I can deal with it, webs, and its team, but if I'm flying blind, then I'll end up removing webs only to die to a Zacian I am unprepared for.
The first step of the plan is Ditto. Ditto is obviously good against webs, and while I could have used Choice Scarf Yveltal, I've used that enough, and wanted to try something else. Furthermore, Ditto can potentially let me scout what set Smeargle is running. The next step is Garganacl. Garganacl does not fear any of the status Smeargle can inflict, and as such is a reliably safe switch-in to Smeargle.
So uh, you might notice something. My team doesn't have Garganacl. That ultimately didn't work out for various reasons, so in its place I have Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn is immune to both Spore and Mortal Spin, and while it isn't immune to Nuzzle, it really doesn't care about paralysis that much. Leftovers also makes any attempt by Smeargle to do damage to it futile, and Iron Barbs actively hurts it for that which I could potentially pair with Spikes. It should be fully capable of checking anything else I need it to after Smeargle.
That's really all I needed, but I wanted to ensure that Smeargle users have a horrible time. If Ditto reveals that Smeargle doesn't have Perish Song, I will find an opening to send in Dragon Dance Zygarde, and from there probably sweep their whole team.
From there, I added Offensive Ho-Oh for hazard removal and Defensive Primal Groudon to deal with Zacian. I also added Mega Diancie back both to further bully Smeargle and because it matches up well against many common Pokemon on Sticky Webs.
But there were a few problems. My team is both quite passive and somewhat frail. Solving the second problem was relatively straightforward. Just make Zygarde more bulky. Specifically, I made it as physically bulky as possible (while maintaining a HP value divisible by four in base for Substitute shenanigans and divisible by 16 in Complete form to get the most out of leftovers) while also making sure Choice Band Marshadow always triggers Power Construct with Poltergeist so it will never be able to 2HKO me.
The other issue was a lot harder to solve. Even with Tera Flying, Ho-Oh alone isn't scary enough. But after a while, I realized something. If I am using Mega Diancie, they probably aren't getting rocks up. So, I did something very stupid. I put Choice Band Ho-Oh on a team with no other hazard removal. This was a risky play, but I feel the damage it deals with Tera Flying Brave Bird, even after relocating its Attack EVs elsewhere, was more than worth it. I still needed a lot of bulk on it, so I sacrificed some speed, leaving just enough to outspeed neutral nature primals.
I had this hyper specific EV spread ready that barely met so many benchmarks, but then I realized it didn't avoid a 2HKO from Choice Specs Lunala, so I scrapped it. What does live that is 248 HP, and adding 16 Special Defense EVs lets it live +1 Origin Pulse from Timid Wallbreaker Primal Kyogre after it Terastalizes. From there, I added 76 Defense EVs to let it live Tera Ghost Poltergeist from Choice Band Marshadow, and put the remaining 12 EVs into Attack. While still significantly less bulky than the average Ho-Oh, it does meet important benchmarks, notably surviving a +1 Wild Charge from Zacian. And even with few investments in Attack, the Choice Band boosts its Attack greatly, letting Tera Flying Brave Bird OHKO Wallbreaker Primal Kyogre and giving it a high chance to OHKO Lunala after Stealth Rock.
Prepare yourselves for this one.
This team started with a plan. A plan to handle webs. Mega Diancie is a nice answer to Smeargle in theory, but it's also really obvious, and they are probably not going to lead Smeargle if they see Mega Diancie. If they have a good anti-lead for it, then you won't be able to deny webs forever. Denying it temporarily is still good, but I'm not satisfied with that. Smeargle will still come in, and Smeargle will still set webs. But what I'm more worried about is Smeargle itself.
It's no secret I hate Smeargle. Counterplay heavily depends on what status move it's running, which is something you can really only guess. Combine that with the potential for Mortal Spin, and Smeargle can really catch you off guard and ruin your plans. If I know what Smeargle has, I can deal with it, webs, and its team, but if I'm flying blind, then I'll end up removing webs only to die to a Zacian I am unprepared for.
The first step of the plan is Ditto. Ditto is obviously good against webs, and while I could have used Choice Scarf Yveltal, I've used that enough, and wanted to try something else. Furthermore, Ditto can potentially let me scout what set Smeargle is running. The next step is Garganacl. Garganacl does not fear any of the status Smeargle can inflict, and as such is a reliably safe switch-in to Smeargle.
So uh, you might notice something. My team doesn't have Garganacl. That ultimately didn't work out for various reasons, so in its place I have Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn is immune to both Spore and Mortal Spin, and while it isn't immune to Nuzzle, it really doesn't care about paralysis that much. Leftovers also makes any attempt by Smeargle to do damage to it futile, and Iron Barbs actively hurts it for that which I could potentially pair with Spikes. It should be fully capable of checking anything else I need it to after Smeargle.
That's really all I needed, but I wanted to ensure that Smeargle users have a horrible time. If Ditto reveals that Smeargle doesn't have Perish Song, I will find an opening to send in Dragon Dance Zygarde, and from there probably sweep their whole team.
From there, I added Offensive Ho-Oh for hazard removal and Defensive Primal Groudon to deal with Zacian. I also added Mega Diancie back both to further bully Smeargle and because it matches up well against many common Pokemon on Sticky Webs.
But there were a few problems. My team is both quite passive and somewhat frail. Solving the second problem was relatively straightforward. Just make Zygarde more bulky. Specifically, I made it as physically bulky as possible (while maintaining a HP value divisible by four in base for Substitute shenanigans and divisible by 16 in Complete form to get the most out of leftovers) while also making sure Choice Band Marshadow always triggers Power Construct with Poltergeist so it will never be able to 2HKO me.
The other issue was a lot harder to solve. Even with Tera Flying, Ho-Oh alone isn't scary enough. But after a while, I realized something. If I am using Mega Diancie, they probably aren't getting rocks up. So, I did something very stupid. I put Choice Band Ho-Oh on a team with no other hazard removal. This was a risky play, but I feel the damage it deals with Tera Flying Brave Bird, even after relocating its Attack EVs elsewhere, was more than worth it. I still needed a lot of bulk on it, so I sacrificed some speed, leaving just enough to outspeed neutral nature primals.
I had this hyper specific EV spread ready that barely met so many benchmarks, but then I realized it didn't avoid a 2HKO from Choice Specs Lunala, so I scrapped it. What does live that is 248 HP, and adding 16 Special Defense EVs lets it live +1 Origin Pulse from Timid Wallbreaker Primal Kyogre after it Terastalizes. From there, I added 76 Defense EVs to let it live Tera Ghost Poltergeist from Choice Band Marshadow, and put the remaining 12 EVs into Attack. While still significantly less bulky than the average Ho-Oh, it does meet important benchmarks, notably surviving a +1 Wild Charge from Zacian. And even with few investments in Attack, the Choice Band boosts its Attack greatly, letting Tera Flying Brave Bird OHKO Wallbreaker Primal Kyogre and giving it a high chance to OHKO Lunala after Stealth Rock.
Last edited: