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Pokémon Legends: Z-A General Discussion

R_N said:
The path finding in some of these hyperzones is kind of stunningly bad sometimes. There's a chunk of crystals right in front of me. The pokemon i have is right beside me. Instead of attacking, with the up close attack mind you, it instead walks all the way over to the scaffolding several feet away, gets stuck on geometry, and then does its attack. Which obviously misses because they're half a football field away with their liquidation.
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Im not sure if thats exclusive to hyperzone; ive had that exact same issue when trying to break those mega crystals in the base game.
 
tentaghost said:
Im not sure if thats exclusive to hyperzone; ive had that exact same issue when trying to break those mega crystals in the base game.
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Fair enough, sometimes especially with floating Pokemon they do seem to get jittery

But when it happens in hyperspace it just feels like it happens way more frequently. I think it has to be something about the scaffolding in a relatively small area.
 
Sulfurian said:
Don't forget GF only recently decided that mythicals deserve some good lore with things like Pecharunt, sadly this game is just find portal, go to portal, have boss fight and catch rather than "oooo zeraora was once a mighty king on this island" or "volcanion is rumored to be a man trapped in their experiment Bill style" or "oooo Hoopa has a connection to the creation trio and thats why he can open portals"

Maybe that's what future legends games will be after they give us legends Kyurem and give us the true dragon, lol.
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Pecharunt is probably the most fleshed-out mythical but Gen 6-8 was a bit of a lull in GF connecting mythicals to the rest of the world.

  • Mew's location isn't well-defined (Gen 3 Old Sea Map notwithstanding) but it's the genetic basis for Mewtwo, and is said to have some sort of connection to other regular Pokémon as well.
  • Celebi is the Ilex Forest's protector
  • Jirachi is the weak link in early-Gen Mythicals regarding world integration
  • Deoxys is "from space" (but has a crash-landing location on Birth Island), and has actually received a regular in-game event in ORAS, which is cool
  • I actually don't remember/know how Manaphy's lore works between Ranger/Sinnoh but it has a little event in L:A and whatever it means for Phione's existence is enough for me (though I wish you could find Phione as a rare wild encounter)
  • Shaymin is tied to Floaroma town and Flower Paradise.
  • Darkrai forms a pair with Cresselia (though I question why one is a regular legendary and the other is a mythical with no indication that Darkrai was "sealed" or "exiled" or whatever)
  • Arceus is uhhhhhhh you know
  • Victini's connection to Unova is weak but it at least has a location (I think it's called Liberty Tower? Been a minute)
  • Keldeo is the apprentice/fourth member of the Swords of Justice, though I don't think it has a location (though none of the other Unovan mythicals do, unless you count P2 Laboratory for Genesect)
  • Meloetta's got some significance for artists/musicians in Unova and its song can be used for other mystical purposes in the region
  • Genesect is explicitly a revived prehistoric Pokémon modified by Team Plasma, though any details beyond this are left up to imagination.
  • I actually really like Diancie as a mythical with its existence just being a rare, sudden mutation of Carbink.
  • Hoopa at least has series-wide lore implications, even if its location/source is... undefined (unless the new Z-A DLC goes into this, I don't even have the base game yet lol)
  • And then Volcanion is just... there. Somehow.
Marshadow, Magearna, Zeraora, and Zarude were all just created for movie marketing and lack concrete locations for their origins. Meltan/Melmetal were made for Pokémon Go (and I think Meltan suffers from this whenever it's available in a main-series game). I don't recall if any of the SwSh DLC pokes count as mythical but they have world integration so it doesn't matter here.

Basically I hate movie-only mythicals on concept! :blobtriumph: I don't judge their designs from this though.
 
R_N said:
The path finding in some of these hyperzones is kind of stunningly bad sometimes. There's a chunk of crystals right in front of me. The pokemon i have is right beside me. Instead of attacking, with the up close attack mind you, it instead walks all the way over to the scaffolding several feet away, gets stuck on geometry, and then does its attack. Which obviously misses because they're half a football field away with their liquidation.
Click to expand...
i've noticed that too, specifically in the wide-open park ones. my mons almost never have trouble anywhere else, not even in the other hyperspace zones, but the pathfinding for the park is incredibly fucky, which is weird because it's the one with by far the least obstacles
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
i've noticed that too, specifically in the wide-open park ones. my mons almost never have trouble anywhere else, not even in the other hyperspace zones, but the pathfinding for the park is incredibly fucky, which is weird because it's the one with by far the least obstacles
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Yep that's the exact one I'm thinking about. Sometimes it'll happen around ladder obstacles in the alleyway focused zones, but that park man. Some wires must have gotten crossed. I think it messes with the enemy path finding too, even when they're aggressive there's sometimes where they also get stuck on that scaffolding.
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
i've noticed that too, specifically in the wide-open park ones. my mons almost never have trouble anywhere else, not even in the other hyperspace zones, but the pathfinding for the park is incredibly fucky, which is weird because it's the one with by far the least obstacles
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R_N said:
Yep that's the exact one I'm thinking about. Sometimes it'll happen around ladder obstacles in the alleyway focused zones, but that park man. Some wires must have gotten crossed. I think it messes with the enemy path finding too, even when they're aggressive there's sometimes where they also get stuck on that scaffolding.
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Yeah feels like theres this one specific map it does it on, ironically the map you’d expect to have the least possible issues with. Also, damn some of these mons are super annoying to catch with the time limit.
 
CPU said:
Pecharunt is probably the most fleshed-out mythical but Gen 6-8 was a bit of a lull in GF connecting mythicals to the rest of the world.
Basically I hate movie-only mythicals on concept! :blobtriumph: I don't judge their designs from this though.
Click to expand...

I don’t exactly disagree here, but personally I would contend that even the old Mythicals are, for the most part, not particularly well-developed. Deoxys is no less “one sentence worth of lore” than Volcanion, the only difference is that (assuming you had the means to attend a special distribution event) you could go catch it yourself on a dull little island.

I think a lot of peoples’ impressions of the lore of older Mythical Pokémon is a lot more informed by the movies than they think (well, the movies and playground rumors), so in my opinion “it was designed for a movie” isn’t necessarily an issue, even though the in-game implementation the Gen 6-8 Mythicals could definitely have been better.

I feel like you can actually narrow down the period in which Game Freak were doing a semi-decent job with Mythical Pokémon to a very precise 2008-2012. That’s when they were both much more widely available for the audience (as opposed to “Hope you can afford to fly to New York!”) and implemented with bespoke in-game events that, while not astonishing, at least said/portrayed something about them in a unique location. This was also the period where I feel they put a little more emphasis on alluding to the presence of these Mythicals prior to their distributions, like how they did with Mew, which I think helps to build up anticipation.
 
Volcanion does have lore, incidentally. No one ever talks about it because Volcanion was released during ORAS so you had to trade it over to XY and then go to the news office. Hell the only reason I remembered it was because of this conversation...
The first two entries basically treat Volcanion as a crytpid. Which kind of fits with the idea similar to Mew; it was just a very rarely seen Pokemon that scientists were trying to understand. Just in this case it's an investigative reporter whose spent 15 years looking into it.

On the XXth day of the XXth month
at the Pokémon Day Care on Route 7
About the extraordinary power that Volcanion is
said to possess.
Discussed it with a top Breeder who’s very familiar
with the ecology of Pokémon and drew the
following deduction.
In order to cause a steam explosion powerful
enough to blow up mountains, the Pokémon must
have an organ with extremely high temperature
that can instantly vaporize water to steam.
That kind of organ is unheard of in the ecology
of Pokémon, but Volcanion may have it...

On the XXth day of the XXth month
at the Pokémon Center in Camphrier Town
Interviewed a Trainer who says he witnessed a
Pokémon that could be Volcanion when he was
stranded in a mountain.
According to the Trainer, a huge Pokémon’s
shadow appeared suddenly.
Two huge armlike limbs that could crush even
the land extended from its back, and from their tips,
something that looked like smoke belched out and
made the fog around the Pokémon even thicker.
The Trainer said the Pokémon’s shadow
slowly disappeared into the fog.
Click to expand...

Then the third one, which I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about does have lore! Kalos lore!
On the XXth day of the XXth month
at Café Kizuna in Lumiose City
In the southern part of the Kalos region,
there seems to be a custom to revere
Volcanion as a nation-building Pokémon.
People seem to believe that a steam explosion
caused by Volcanion created the plain
where they live.
As a matter of fact, a huge mountain range
suddenly disappeared due to an unexplained
explosion in that part of the region in the past...
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for the fabled southern kalos :T
 
R_N said:
Volcanion does have lore, incidentally. No one ever talks about it because Volcanion was released during ORAS so you had to trade it over to XY and then go to the news office. Hell the only reason I remembered it was because of this conversation...
The first two entries basically treat Volcanion as a crytpid. Which kind of fits with the idea similar to Mew; it was just a very rarely seen Pokemon that scientists were trying to understand. Just in this case it's an investigative reporter whose spent 15 years looking into it.



Then the third one, which I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about does have lore! Kalos lore!

for the fabled southern kalos :T
Click to expand...

I’m just that right kind of obsessed where all this stuff is permanently encoded in my brain, lol. :psywoke: I had a whole two paragraphs when drafting that post where I talked about exactly this, but I ended up South-Kalosing it all for the sake of brevity.
 
What a sad Pokemon Volcanion is. Even considering the fact that its content got cut with no satisfying replacement it's just Heatran 2. Emulating a Pokemon notorious for its lack of intrigue and gravitas probably wasn't a very good call to begin with.

diancie.gif
hoopa.gif
darkrai.gif
 
Yung Dramps said:
What a sad Pokemon Volcanion is. Even considering the fact that its content got cut with no satisfying replacement it's just Heatran 2. Emulating a Pokemon notorious for its lack of intrigue and gravitas probably wasn't a very good call to begin with.

diancie.gif
hoopa.gif
darkrai.gif
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Actually Heatran makes a better Volcanion:-D
 
Esserise said:
I don’t exactly disagree here, but personally I would contend that even the old Mythicals are, for the most part, not particularly well-developed. Deoxys is no less “one sentence worth of lore” than Volcanion, the only difference is that (assuming you had the means to attend a special distribution event) you could go catch it yourself on a dull little island.

I think a lot of peoples’ impressions of the lore of older Mythical Pokémon is a lot more informed by the movies than they think (well, the movies and playground rumors), so in my opinion “it was designed for a movie” isn’t necessarily an issue, even though the in-game implementation the Gen 6-8 Mythicals could definitely have been better.

I feel like you can actually narrow down the period in which Game Freak were doing a semi-decent job with Mythical Pokémon to a very precise 2008-2012. That’s when they were both much more widely available for the audience (as opposed to “Hope you can afford to fly to New York!”) and implemented with bespoke in-game events that, while not astonishing, at least said/portrayed something about them in a unique location. This was also the period where I feel they put a little more emphasis on alluding to the presence of these Mythicals prior to their distributions, like how they did with Mew, which I think helps to build up anticipation.
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I think playground rumors/community/movie plays a huge role here. It will always be stronger than just a simple QR code at gamestop. Hoopa was memorable to me because of post-game ORAS and now ZA. But during ORAS the hoopa movie was actually really decent as far as crazy legendaries being memorable. Zeraora's movie he was a random addition to a sequel of a different timeline of Ash, he was already set up to fail there.

I think to have the best traits of a mythical, you have to appear like an actual mythical creature, Celebi looks mythical, vs Volcanion who looks like a lab experiment, it doesn't evoke the same feeling here. Have a decent movie that showcases the mythical's power but makes them a decent character. Mew was a top contender, it was playful but still really strong, and in the Japanese dub was actually kind of a jerk. Vs marshadow who is just there. Community/theories/lore/playground all come together here too, people talking about inspirations for design and lore, talking about the dex entries and website page, thinking how the new quest will go. Mew under the truck vs QR code or game card, or connect to mystery gift.
 
Mario With Lasers said:
If only they'd added the Kalos Power Plants... or southern Kalos...
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or literally any content outside of the one city

honestly i'm not knocking the choice to make it just lumiose, it feels big enough and alive enough to me, but they could've done so much more with the rest of kalos. this was their opportunity to fully flesh out all the stuff they left unfinished as setups for pokemon z. or they could at least tie up the unaddressed loose ends that were in lumiose itself, like the ghost girl
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
or literally any content outside of the one city

honestly i'm not knocking the choice to make it just lumiose, it feels big enough and alive enough to me, but they could've done so much more with the rest of kalos. this was their opportunity to fully flesh out all the stuff they left unfinished as setups for pokemon z. or they could at least tie up the unaddressed loose ends that were in lumiose itself, like the ghost girl
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The ghost girl is a recurring bit, it wasn't meant to be tied up. It was in gen 5 as well.
 
Ghost Girl also gets mentioned a few times in side dialog so she's still kicking around.

honestly, though, she should have gotten a more proper easter egg. Have her show up one in whatever times if you stay in your room where she does the whole spiel before leaving. Even recreate the mid-motion slide around the room.
 
I mean personally I’m not too fussed about not seeing the rest of Kalos, and god knows I’ve never given a shit about the power plants (nor do I think Volcanion would have even had anything to do with them even if they had given it some kind of event). I don’t think you really need any of that in order to give a Pokémon just, a nice Moment. Whether that’s a good boss battle or a fun side quest or an interesting scene. My “gripe,” such as it is, is simply that the Volcanion side mission in Z-A isn’t any of those things, but even that objection comes paired with my thinking that Mythical events have mostly always sucked so it’s whatever
 
Honestly part of me wonders if Volcanion was intended for ORAS somehow. It is a Fire/Water type with its lore connecting it to terraforming

Who knows, maybe Volcanion gets a proper story role when Legends Hoenn releases in 2047
 
I honestly feel like the lack of info on mythicals from gens I-III was kinda the point, if anything. Like, these pokemon are called "mythical" because there's so little known about them in-universe that some people straight up don't think they're real. Combine that with the lack of any real internet or datamining and what little bits of lore that are there making these guys seem super cool/magical/special/whatever (ancestor of all pokemon, time travel, wish granting, shapeshifting alien) and you've got yourself a recipe for immediate fan favorites + movie incentives.

But with Volcanion specifically, it doesn't really scratch that same itch. To be fair, the XY Volcanion reports did actually do the "rare pokemon that nobody knows about except 1 guy wowie zowie" part pretty well, but they were ironically too out of the way for that to really color people's perception on it. And even if you could read them without already having a Volcanion, the pokemon itself is kinda lacking the same gravitas as a lot of other mythicals (including the other two from gen VI). So rather than the lack of information on Volcanion making it feel like there was some big mystery to uncover, it instead just kind of felt like we didn't know anything because there wasn't anything to know to begin with.
 
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