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Unpopular opinions

Gen V fans have become the new Gen Wunners. Yes, of course I'd like to hear on every single site how BW 1 & 2 are unquestionably the greatest Pokémon games and everything after them is just a downward spiral. No, of course it isn't nostalgia talking like almost every media discussion on the internet. No, of course you aren't obnoxious gits who are no different than the Gen Wunners.

I don't even hate the games, but the fans are insufferable.
And the sweet, sweet irony of it is delicious.

team plasma being a grift from the start doesnt work well because it just makes a character like N look really really stupid. Your evil cult doesnt have to be a logical mastermind where everything they do makes sense, but gamefreak was so deeply scared of anyone ever having a shred of connection with them that they made sure to make them the most evil most unserious team ever.

So now we just have to write fanfic about how ghetsis is an insane master groomer manipulator and thats how he got N. which is also extremely hard to believe because he keeps dropping the act in front of everyone and just activating his evil villain mode. bw is a story that reeks of insecurity and its hard to take it seriously
Yeah, the whole idea loses a lot of its luster when you see Team Plasma kicking a Munna as early as the end of Gym 1.

It's both so inequivocally evil *and* stupid, that it becomes kind of impossible to take N seriously. Like, bro, it took me 5 minutes' worth of interacting with TP to figure out they're tricking you.

But again, the whole story is about N finally touching grass, so it is what it is.

-The QoL the newer games have made Gens 1-4 feel nearly unplayable. The only reason I would be playing something like Emerald or Platinum is for the Battle Frontier. Excluding that, I would take ORAS or BDSP over them any day of the week.
I'll go a bit farther.

All of the Pokémon games are borderline unplayable without some modding and tweaking nowadays. We don't need to look any further than PkHex being as popular as it is.

IVs and Exp. Groups are *horrible* mechanics, and they apply to every single game in the franchise.

  • RBY and GSC don't have running shoes, so you're just slowly plodding around until the early-mid game for a bike.
  • The Battle Frontier all but requires you to ditch your whole team and do copious amounts of grinding.
  • Gen 4's engine is notoriously slow.
  • The Switch games have the forced exp. share issue, AND the unavoidable DLC Exp. Charm.

I could say more, but I believe the point is made.

Oh, just an addendum.

Luxray being changed to Electric/Dark in pretty much every romhack is RIDICULOUS.
 
Every recent game being called "the best in the series" makes me question if thats even a high bar.
it's not really because most pokemon games are really bad jrpgs when compared to anything but themselves.

i'd actually give more credence to the earlier entries in this regard ironically because for all their jank, they didn't yet erase basically all gameplay friction.
 
Every recent game being called "the best in the series" makes me question if thats even a high bar.

I mean, every game except for BDSP is probably going to be “the best in the series” for someone.

Actually, hang on, my ragging on BDSP there is a telling point, because pretty much no one lauded it as “the best in the series,” and it’s pretty easy to see why that would be: It almost objectively doesn’t do anything particularly well. It is, at best, adequately but underwhelmingly serviceable.

In general, I don’t really feel like this phenomenon you describe is a real thing. Every new game gets tons of criticism alongside the praises, and the especially high praises are, in my experience, more for specific elements rather than the games as a whole, such as people saying that SV has one of the best stories. Certainly no meaningful amount of people were saying it was the best all-around game without any caveats like “I think it’s the best, but then, the performance issues don’t bother me personally.”
 
I mean, every game except for BDSP is probably going to be “the best in the series” for someone.

Actually, hang on, my ragging on BDSP there is a telling point, because pretty much no one lauded it as “the best in the series,” and it’s pretty easy to see why that would be: It almost objectively doesn’t do anything particularly well. It is, at best, adequately but underwhelmingly serviceable.

In general, I don’t really feel like this phenomenon you describe is a real thing. Every new game gets tons of criticism alongside the praises, and the especially high praises are, in my experience, more for specific elements rather than the games as a whole, such as people saying that SV has one of the best stories. Certainly no meaningful amount of people were saying it was the best all-around game without any caveats like “I think it’s the best, but then, the performance issues don’t bother me personally.”
While I don't consider it to be the best overall, I would absolutely consider the boss movesets to be something BDSP does particularly well compared to the rest of the series. In fact, because I value that aspect quite a bit, I'd put BDSP above any other Pokemon game on the Swtich because I don't care about their strong points as much.
 
I mean, every game except for BDSP is probably going to be “the best in the series” for someone.

Actually, hang on, my ragging on BDSP there is a telling point, because pretty much no one lauded it as “the best in the series,” and it’s pretty easy to see why that would be: It almost objectively doesn’t do anything particularly well. It is, at best, adequately but underwhelmingly serviceable.

In general, I don’t really feel like this phenomenon you describe is a real thing. Every new game gets tons of criticism alongside the praises, and the especially high praises are, in my experience, more for specific elements rather than the games as a whole, such as people saying that SV has one of the best stories. Certainly no meaningful amount of people were saying it was the best all-around game without any caveats like “I think it’s the best, but then, the performance issues don’t bother me personally.”

Its certainly real even if i will admit theres some "goomba fallacy" at work since theres nothing people online love more than overcorrecting and jumping to extremes, ive seen it myself.

actually your point about people praising scarlet and violet for its story was kinda the reason for my question about wether or not a good pokemon game is that high of a bar since people online usually follow that praise up with "-for pokemon standards"

That to me is kind of a red flag about a games quality since it says less that the games story is good, and more that everyother story was terrible and this was the least bad one.
 
While I don't consider it to be the best overall, I would absolutely consider the boss movesets to be something BDSP does particularly well compared to the rest of the series. In fact, because I value that aspect quite a bit, I'd put BDSP above any other Pokemon game on the Swtich because I don't care about their strong points as much.

Good point. (And how fitting that I was able to draw out this particular reply in this particular thread, lol.)

actually your point about people praising scarlet and violet for its story was kinda the reason for my question about wether or not a good pokemon game is that high of a bar since people online usually follow that praise up with "-for pokemon standards"

That to me is kind of a red flag about a games quality since it says less that the games story is good, and more that everyother story was terrible and this was the least bad one.

Sure, but I think most people probably don’t have any illusions about Pokémon being high art in the gaming sphere or anything. Again, with the Internet, it’s as you say, you’ll always get extremes and things being blown out of proportion, but we just have to cut through that noise.

Fundamentally, Pokémon games are a big, broad, accessible entertainment option that gets consistent returns due to a strong core formula and (to highlight something GF actually are remarkably talented at) highly diverse and effective creature design, and that’s all that most people seem to be asking of the series.

You can look at that from a cynical angle and say “well if everyone’s already internally acknowledged that Pokémon is never going to compete at a GOTY level, that means the bar is pretty low” but idk, I don’t think every movie needs to be Citizen Kane, but even the worst MCU movie isn’t anywhere near the worst that the whole history of film has to offer. Similarly, if Pokémon wants to just stay in its lane and iterate on itself, I don’t see that as a problem necessarily. Like, I enjoy Pokémon’s gameplay and its stories. They’re not so sublime that I would put them up there with any all-timers, but I also wouldn’t rank them down with the dregs, either. They do about what they need to do to make a Pokémon game work, and sometimes if we’re lucky they even manage to punch a little above that, which makes for a nice surprise when it happens.
 
Actually, hang on, my ragging on BDSP there is a telling point, because pretty much no one lauded it as “the best in the series,” and it’s pretty easy to see why that would be: It almost objectively doesn’t do anything particularly well. It is, at best, adequately but underwhelmingly serviceable.
I already got sniped for this response up above, but I'd like to once again reiterate that bdsp has arguably the best boss teambuilding choices in the entire series (mainline or otherwise, sometimes matched by battle facility mons but that's a separate topic altogether), which is extremely impressive considering how long the series has been going without this just...not being a thing in general. The complex battling system of Pokemon (even just its mainline series' one, not delving into the variations of the legends games) is one of the strongest points the franchise has going for it (and definitely what makes me still stick around to this day & come back for more), yet the fact that the very own games' main campaign (aka the part most people are going to use as a metric for the games/franchise for the most part) doesn't make as much use of it as it could've is just...a waste, really. Like, is it too much to ask to give enemy mons held items to give them an added edge in-battle? Alongside sensical move choices (both in general and also relative to the respective point of the game) to pose as adequate a threat level as possible (while covering up potential loose ends to not just make battles mash super effective moves to win)? In that regard, it's actually most unfortunate that bdsp on this regard is bogged down by the pokemon choices (on main game teams) remaining firmly identical to d/p (not even platinum....), limiting further expression of creativity; yet, they were given the best possible tools to work with what was available.

This also neatly brings me up to the real intent behind this point, since checks thread title it seems a most appropriate opportunity to bring this up: what does the term romhack difficulty even...mean? To me it just seems like a handwaved buzzword that's used to dismiss design choices that step into unfamiliar territory: most mainline games don't use proper held items on enemy trainers' mons (never mind bosses), and often barely even use enough sensical move choices (often just opting for 4 attacks which're often redundant/not even synergistic....if they even USE 4 moves at all! Surely I can't be the only one baffled by boss mons using less than 4 moves instead of even simply their default lvup learnset moves (regardless of how good said moves would be or not). Like, said design choice makes sense for specific instances of choice-locked mons (for now, let's ignore how easily exploited a choiced mon used by the ai can be), but otherwise? It's just needless, senseless handicapping that reflects poorly on the boss fight's experience.

And yet...when such bosses ARE given the aforementioned tools to work with (aka bdsp) people suddenly...claim the game is romhack tier? Because it's not what they're used to expecting from your typical mainline games where the goddamn main campaign is treated as an afterthought the majority of the time (which btw is incredibly sad considering such a thing is supposed to be the game's main defining trait...especially if/when it then leads to arguments like johto sucks cuz some of its mons are stuck in postgame content)? (even though as an additional unpopular opinion, I don't really consider gsc/hgss kanto "postgame", but merely the second part of the game; true postgame to me is getting permission to access mt silver, with red being the final postgame superboss like gen 1 mewtwo)). And also, this is implying that romhacks (and also rpg maker fangames) are being put under an umbrella of generally being way harder than mainline, if not unreasonably so, which...is admittedly true for some of them (especially when such a thing is their main intent), but there's DEFINITELY many romhacks/fangames out there which are barely harder than mainline games (if at all), with more or less the same quality of teambuilding as said mainline games; typically said romhacks/fangames may prioritize aspects like story, aesthetics or presentation more instead, though.

And the final, actually-hottest part of all this which many are not willing to have an open discussion about...at the end of the day, we're talking about a pve (player vs environment) setting here; the player-ai report is clearly imbalanced and largely skewed towards favoring the player (who has infinite teambuilding options to tackle upcoming trainer fights when and how they wish, especially utilizing the aforementioned depth of the battling system)....most especially so in the most recent mainline games, where you not only get way more pokemon options off the gate through the wild area/open world nature of the region, but said options keep becoming better and stronger over time; if people keep being surprised at pokemon from the most recent gens being better-optimized stat/movepool wise (on top of basically-always having signatures these days) in even competitive play, how do you think such strong mons fare on an ingame environment where the aforementioned pve factors are in play? This isn't even accounting for other ways to make boss fights challenging- utilizing proper strategies like weather, terrains and possibly even rooms; hell, fights later in the game could even up the ante and utilize these factors in a pre-set state to maximize immediate threat level. (ie. a water type specialist on an area that's raining for perma-preset rain, a grass specialist on a field full of meadow and grass for pre-set grassy terrain, etc) (also apparently since gen 7 onwards, overworld weather that becomes overriden by a weather move will return on its own once your own weather expires (ie. rain on a route gets replace by the player's sunny day mon; once sun is over, it becomes rainy again instead of there being no weather)? that's honestly so rad and really helps keep the added element of pressure around the battle at all times)

But kids can't grasp these- the supposedly intended audience for these games (6-y/o kids)? They're at a stage where they're more ready and willing to learn than ever; they definitely can and will find a way...especially if the games did a better job at explaining its own mechanics in further details, while ideally also demonstrating this in practice. Oh but they'll run into a wall of a boss fight that's too difficult and risk quitting- again they're kids in their learning stages; if they want something badly enough, they WILL get it by any means necessary...whether that's coming up with a different strategy entirely or just bashing their head into the wall until something sticks (or the rng just favors them enough). And if nothing else, isn't trial-and-error how said kids are meant to grow in the healthiest way possible?

....This ofc ended up being way longer than intended, but this is a topic I'm rather passionate and invested about in this franchise and I couldn't just let it slide by. Oh well, still a good writing/venting exercise I suppose lol
 
I mean, every game except for BDSP is probably going to be “the best in the series” for someone.

Actually, hang on, my ragging on BDSP there is a telling point, because pretty much no one lauded it as “the best in the series,” and it’s pretty easy to see why that would be: It almost objectively doesn’t do anything particularly well. It is, at best, adequately but underwhelmingly serviceable.

In general, I don’t really feel like this phenomenon you describe is a real thing. Every new game gets tons of criticism alongside the praises, and the especially high praises are, in my experience, more for specific elements rather than the games as a whole, such as people saying that SV has one of the best stories. Certainly no meaningful amount of people were saying it was the best all-around game without any caveats like “I think it’s the best, but then, the performance issues don’t bother me personally.”
I find my biggest beef with the franchise these days is how every modern game since like Gen 8 (debatably 6, maybe the Ultra games, but it’s way too late to tell right now) has been having a really bad case of the “it’s good, but…” and that but has gotten bigger at different rates for different people.
Like for every addition and improvements the games do objectively make, it always comes at some cost to something else. And I feel like that’s starting to become a genuine issue with the series. Both because the fans hate losing it, and because it means that all of that development time put into the mechanic just gets flushed down the drain.
It’s like how almost every single review of the games have said something to the effect of ‘it’s another step forward for the franchise’. For a lot of people, that step forward still hasn’t left the front porch
I already got sniped for this response up above, but I'd like to once again reiterate that bdsp has arguably the best boss teambuilding choices in the entire series (mainline or otherwise, sometimes matched by battle facility mons but that's a separate topic altogether), which is extremely impressive considering how long the series has been going without this just...not being a thing in general. The complex battling system of Pokemon (even just its mainline series' one, not delving into the variations of the legends games) is one of the strongest points the franchise has going for it (and definitely what makes me still stick around to this day & come back for more), yet the fact that the very own games' main campaign (aka the part most people are going to use as a metric for the games/franchise for the most part) doesn't make as much use of it as it could've is just...a waste, really. Like, is it too much to ask to give enemy mons held items to give them an added edge in-battle? Alongside sensical move choices (both in general and also relative to the respective point of the game) to pose as adequate a threat level as possible (while covering up potential loose ends to not just make battles mash super effective moves to win)? In that regard, it's actually most unfortunate that bdsp on this regard is bogged down by the pokemon choices (on main game teams) remaining firmly identical to d/p (not even platinum....), limiting further expression of creativity; yet, they were given the best possible tools to work with what was available.

This also neatly brings me up to the real intent behind this point, since checks thread title it seems a most appropriate opportunity to bring this up: what does the term romhack difficulty even...mean? To me it just seems like a handwaved buzzword that's used to dismiss design choices that step into unfamiliar territory: most mainline games don't use proper held items on enemy trainers' mons (never mind bosses), and often barely even use enough sensical move choices (often just opting for 4 attacks which're often redundant/not even synergistic....if they even USE 4 moves at all! Surely I can't be the only one baffled by boss mons using less than 4 moves instead of even simply their default lvup learnset moves (regardless of how good said moves would be or not). Like, said design choice makes sense for specific instances of choice-locked mons (for now, let's ignore how easily exploited a choiced mon used by the ai can be), but otherwise? It's just needless, senseless handicapping that reflects poorly on the boss fight's experience.

And yet...when such bosses ARE given the aforementioned tools to work with (aka bdsp) people suddenly...claim the game is romhack tier? Because it's not what they're used to expecting from your typical mainline games where the goddamn main campaign is treated as an afterthought the majority of the time (which btw is incredibly sad considering such a thing is supposed to be the game's main defining trait...especially if/when it then leads to arguments like johto sucks cuz some of its mons are stuck in postgame content)? (even though as an additional unpopular opinion, I don't really consider gsc/hgss kanto "postgame", but merely the second part of the game; true postgame to me is getting permission to access mt silver, with red being the final postgame superboss like gen 1 mewtwo)). And also, this is implying that romhacks (and also rpg maker fangames) are being put under an umbrella of generally being way harder than mainline, if not unreasonably so, which...is admittedly true for some of them (especially when such a thing is their main intent), but there's DEFINITELY many romhacks/fangames out there which are barely harder than mainline games (if at all), with more or less the same quality of teambuilding as said mainline games; typically said romhacks/fangames may prioritize aspects like story, aesthetics or presentation more instead, though.

And the final, actually-hottest part of all this which many are not willing to have an open discussion about...at the end of the day, we're talking about a pve (player vs environment) setting here; the player-ai report is clearly imbalanced and largely skewed towards favoring the player (who has infinite teambuilding options to tackle upcoming trainer fights when and how they wish, especially utilizing the aforementioned depth of the battling system)....most especially so in the most recent mainline games, where you not only get way more pokemon options off the gate through the wild area/open world nature of the region, but said options keep becoming better and stronger over time; if people keep being surprised at pokemon from the most recent gens being better-optimized stat/movepool wise (on top of basically-always having signatures these days) in even competitive play, how do you think such strong mons fare on an ingame environment where the aforementioned pve factors are in play? This isn't even accounting for other ways to make boss fights challenging- utilizing proper strategies like weather, terrains and possibly even rooms; hell, fights later in the game could even up the ante and utilize these factors in a pre-set state to maximize immediate threat level. (ie. a water type specialist on an area that's raining for perma-preset rain, a grass specialist on a field full of meadow and grass for pre-set grassy terrain, etc) (also apparently since gen 7 onwards, overworld weather that becomes overriden by a weather move will return on its own once your own weather expires (ie. rain on a route gets replace by the player's sunny day mon; once sun is over, it becomes rainy again instead of there being no weather)? that's honestly so rad and really helps keep the added element of pressure around the battle at all times)

But kids can't grasp these- the supposedly intended audience for these games (6-y/o kids)? They're at a stage where they're more ready and willing to learn than ever; they definitely can and will find a way...especially if the games did a better job at explaining its own mechanics in further details, while ideally also demonstrating this in practice. Oh but they'll run into a wall of a boss fight that's too difficult and risk quitting- again they're kids in their learning stages; if they want something badly enough, they WILL get it by any means necessary...whether that's coming up with a different strategy entirely or just bashing their head into the wall until something sticks (or the rng just favors them enough). And if nothing else, isn't trial-and-error how said kids are meant to grow in the healthiest way possible?

....This ofc ended up being way longer than intended, but this is a topic I'm rather passionate and invested about in this franchise and I couldn't just let it slide by. Oh well, still a good writing/venting exercise I suppose lol
Well to me personally, Rom Hack difficulty is when a well designed challenge is made that actually make you do more prep beyond the usual ‘Bring a Fire type to the Ice gym and press A to win’.
Like Drayanos a good, heck great example, a lot of his Gym leader fights have genuinely great strategies behind them without being to overwhelming. Actually using the tools the game has at its disposal like proper Weather teams like against Crasher Wake or Roark, or using real movepools instead of using stuff like level up moves or 40 BP moves for the fourth Gym and actual held items beyond Oran/Sitrus berries.
 
I find my biggest beef with the franchise these days is how every modern game since like Gen 8 (debatably 6, maybe the Ultra games, but it’s way too late to tell right now) has been having a really bad case of the “it’s good, but…” and that but has gotten bigger at different rates for different people.

Thing is, I don’t see how this isn’t the case for every game they’ve ever released. When people talk about Gen 6 like it was some breakpoint at which Game Freak stopped making unimpeachable masterpieces and only started making decent-but-flawed games, I can’t help but think there are a lot of rose-tinted goggles being applied. Or, if not nostalgia, then critical favoritsm. “This is bad, but I’m going to let it slide because I’m having a good time” — just like the performance issues in Scarlet & Violet.

“It’s good, but…” applies to every entry in the series from 1996 on, if you ask me. Even my personal darlings.
 
Thing is, I don’t see how this isn’t the case for every game they’ve ever released. When people talk about Gen 6 like it was some breakpoint at which Game Freak stopped making unimpeachable masterpieces and only started making decent-but-flawed games, I can’t help but think there are a lot of rose-tinted goggles being applied. Or, if not nostalgia, then critical favoritsm. “This is bad, but I’m going to let it slide because I’m having a good time” — just like the performance issues in Scarlet & Violet.

“It’s good, but…” applies to every entry in the series from 1996 on, if you ask me. Even my personal darlings.
i think this also has a lot to do with game pricing tbf; which is contentious since value for money when it comes to a game is subjective to some degree, but between Gens 1-7, Pokemon games only went up in price by about $10 over the course of 20~ odd years, and were always primarily handheld games that had a different standard applied to them.

Come the Switch era, you have them going dollar-for-dollar with $60, even $70 now that we're on Switch 2, games, where the standard demanded is typically considerably higher. And when the first proper Switch Pokemon game cuts half the roster...well.


That is not to say that earlier games didn't have issues; Base Diamond and Pearl are probably the worst games in the series and I'm saying this as someone who -loves- Gen 4. But the issues didn't coincide and come packed with a -massive- price increase and shift in what standard you evaluated the games by.
 
I already got sniped for this response up above, but I'd like to once again reiterate that bdsp has arguably the best boss teambuilding choices in the entire series (mainline or otherwise, sometimes matched by battle facility mons but that's a separate topic altogether), which is extremely impressive considering how long the series has been going without this just...not being a thing in general. The complex battling system of Pokemon (even just its mainline series' one, not delving into the variations of the legends games) is one of the strongest points the franchise has going for it (and definitely what makes me still stick around to this day & come back for more), yet the fact that the very own games' main campaign (aka the part most people are going to use as a metric for the games/franchise for the most part) doesn't make as much use of it as it could've is just...a waste, really. Like, is it too much to ask to give enemy mons held items to give them an added edge in-battle? Alongside sensical move choices (both in general and also relative to the respective point of the game) to pose as adequate a threat level as possible (while covering up potential loose ends to not just make battles mash super effective moves to win)? In that regard, it's actually most unfortunate that bdsp on this regard is bogged down by the pokemon choices (on main game teams) remaining firmly identical to d/p (not even platinum....), limiting further expression of creativity; yet, they were given the best possible tools to work with what was available.

This also neatly brings me up to the real intent behind this point, since checks thread title it seems a most appropriate opportunity to bring this up: what does the term romhack difficulty even...mean? To me it just seems like a handwaved buzzword that's used to dismiss design choices that step into unfamiliar territory: most mainline games don't use proper held items on enemy trainers' mons (never mind bosses), and often barely even use enough sensical move choices (often just opting for 4 attacks which're often redundant/not even synergistic....if they even USE 4 moves at all! Surely I can't be the only one baffled by boss mons using less than 4 moves instead of even simply their default lvup learnset moves (regardless of how good said moves would be or not). Like, said design choice makes sense for specific instances of choice-locked mons (for now, let's ignore how easily exploited a choiced mon used by the ai can be), but otherwise? It's just needless, senseless handicapping that reflects poorly on the boss fight's experience.

And yet...when such bosses ARE given the aforementioned tools to work with (aka bdsp) people suddenly...claim the game is romhack tier? Because it's not what they're used to expecting from your typical mainline games where the goddamn main campaign is treated as an afterthought the majority of the time (which btw is incredibly sad considering such a thing is supposed to be the game's main defining trait...especially if/when it then leads to arguments like johto sucks cuz some of its mons are stuck in postgame content)? (even though as an additional unpopular opinion, I don't really consider gsc/hgss kanto "postgame", but merely the second part of the game; true postgame to me is getting permission to access mt silver, with red being the final postgame superboss like gen 1 mewtwo)). And also, this is implying that romhacks (and also rpg maker fangames) are being put under an umbrella of generally being way harder than mainline, if not unreasonably so, which...is admittedly true for some of them (especially when such a thing is their main intent), but there's DEFINITELY many romhacks/fangames out there which are barely harder than mainline games (if at all), with more or less the same quality of teambuilding as said mainline games; typically said romhacks/fangames may prioritize aspects like story, aesthetics or presentation more instead, though.

And the final, actually-hottest part of all this which many are not willing to have an open discussion about...at the end of the day, we're talking about a pve (player vs environment) setting here; the player-ai report is clearly imbalanced and largely skewed towards favoring the player (who has infinite teambuilding options to tackle upcoming trainer fights when and how they wish, especially utilizing the aforementioned depth of the battling system)....most especially so in the most recent mainline games, where you not only get way more pokemon options off the gate through the wild area/open world nature of the region, but said options keep becoming better and stronger over time; if people keep being surprised at pokemon from the most recent gens being better-optimized stat/movepool wise (on top of basically-always having signatures these days) in even competitive play, how do you think such strong mons fare on an ingame environment where the aforementioned pve factors are in play? This isn't even accounting for other ways to make boss fights challenging- utilizing proper strategies like weather, terrains and possibly even rooms; hell, fights later in the game could even up the ante and utilize these factors in a pre-set state to maximize immediate threat level. (ie. a water type specialist on an area that's raining for perma-preset rain, a grass specialist on a field full of meadow and grass for pre-set grassy terrain, etc) (also apparently since gen 7 onwards, overworld weather that becomes overriden by a weather move will return on its own once your own weather expires (ie. rain on a route gets replace by the player's sunny day mon; once sun is over, it becomes rainy again instead of there being no weather)? that's honestly so rad and really helps keep the added element of pressure around the battle at all times)

But kids can't grasp these- the supposedly intended audience for these games (6-y/o kids)? They're at a stage where they're more ready and willing to learn than ever; they definitely can and will find a way...especially if the games did a better job at explaining its own mechanics in further details, while ideally also demonstrating this in practice. Oh but they'll run into a wall of a boss fight that's too difficult and risk quitting- again they're kids in their learning stages; if they want something badly enough, they WILL get it by any means necessary...whether that's coming up with a different strategy entirely or just bashing their head into the wall until something sticks (or the rng just favors them enough). And if nothing else, isn't trial-and-error how said kids are meant to grow in the healthiest way possible?

....This ofc ended up being way longer than intended, but this is a topic I'm rather passionate and invested about in this franchise and I couldn't just let it slide by. Oh well, still a good writing/venting exercise I suppose lol
So, basically, "romhack difficulty" means that they just vault straight into the other direction and turn bosses into wrecking balls of stats that force people to EV train on Gym 1.

I wouldn't say BDSP and Gen 7 get *that* bad, but it is kind of bs.

Personally, I wish Game Freak used Emerald Liza and Tate as the standard. Just good flavor and actual strategy.
 
i think this also has a lot to do with game pricing tbf; which is contentious since value for money when it comes to a game is subjective to some degree, but between Gens 1-7, Pokemon games only went up in price by about $10 over the course of 20~ odd years, and were always primarily handheld games that had a different standard applied to them.

Come the Switch era, you have them going dollar-for-dollar with $60, even $70 now that we're on Switch 2, games, where the standard demanded is typically considerably higher. And when the first proper Switch Pokemon game cuts half the roster...well.


That is not to say that earlier games didn't have issues; Base Diamond and Pearl are probably the worst games in the series and I'm saying this as someone who -loves- Gen 4. But the issues didn't coincide and come packed with a -massive- price increase and shift in what standard you evaluated the games by.
I think that the switch to DLC for what normally would have been 3rd version content increases the divide as well. Roughly speaking, current console game+DLC is around the same price as two previous handheld games. If you think the base game is sufficient such that you would have previously bought both initial and third version games, then there's no meaningful price increase. If instead you think that the base game needs more features, the price is now double that of what just getting the third version used to be. Even with the jump to console prices, I probably would have picked up a 60 USD Infrared/Ultraviolet version if one existed.
 
i think this also has a lot to do with game pricing tbf; which is contentious since value for money when it comes to a game is subjective to some degree, but between Gens 1-7, Pokemon games only went up in price by about $10 over the course of 20~ odd years, and were always primarily handheld games that had a different standard applied to them.

Come the Switch era, you have them going dollar-for-dollar with $60, even $70 now that we're on Switch 2, games, where the standard demanded is typically considerably higher. And when the first proper Switch Pokemon game cuts half the roster...well.

That is not to say that earlier games didn't have issues; Base Diamond and Pearl are probably the worst games in the series and I'm saying this as someone who -loves- Gen 4. But the issues didn't coincide and come packed with a -massive- price increase and shift in what standard you evaluated the games by.

While I don’t disagree that this is a likely and significant factor for the perception of the Switch games, Gens 6 and 7 are still outliers since they were priced consistently with other DS/3DS games yet receive very little of the retrospective charity that Gens 1-5 enjoy. Because in their case, they’re saddled with a entirely different unifying critical narrative; that being the transition to 3D (though realistically that should only really apply to XY and maybe ORAS, as by the time of Gen 7 they would surely have finished the transition).

Ironmage mentioned the differential of third versions vs. DLC and how that factors into it, and while I think that perspective does make sense, I also think that if anything, the phenomenon of third versions is something that should shatter any rosy illusions about Gens 1-7 across the board.

So much of the Gen 1-5 games’ high reputation is buoyed by the existence of third versions getting to act as a do-over, and getting to fill in the content that the initial releases lacked. But what that fundamentally means is that a solid half of the franchise’s offerings from 1996-2017 were in some significant ways sub-par such that they encouraged you to purchase what was essentially just a second, better version of the game you already played, for the same price. I mean, we all know X & Y, right? And how the fandom has literally not stopped dogging on it and lamenting for over a decade that it didn’t ever get a third version? Now imagine if they stopped doing third versions after Emerald, and DP and BW had to survive on their own merits. I can’t imagine that the retrospective view of the series wouldn’t look very different. (For the record, I like BW a lot, but B2W2 definitely made it a point to address a lot of the criticisms that BW received.)

Granted, in theory, a savvy and patient consumer could predict the eventual release of a third version and opt to not purchase one of the initial versions, and get a better deal for their money in the long run. But that notion runs into two complications:

- The sales numbers really don’t seem to bear that out, as the initial versions were always far and away the better sellers than the third versions, and I feel like it’s probably unlikely that a huge portion of third version adopters were also initial version abstainers, as opposed to a mix of “kids who got the last game and also wanted the newest game as well and had guardians who were willing to splash” and “super-fan nutters like moi who buy everything the main series comes out with anyway.”

- It is, of course, a speculative approach, which runs the risk of being upended by the developers choosing to break the pattern like with, say, a direct sequel that builds on the story of the initial versions instead of merely revising it (B2W2), or indeed, nothing at all (XZYZ). And also, FOMO was a still thing even back then, and always is with children especially, who generally don’t have to contemplate the financial considerations when composing their Christmas list.
 
I think that the switch to DLC for what normally would have been 3rd version content increases the divide as well. Roughly speaking, current console game+DLC is around the same price as two previous handheld games. If you think the base game is sufficient such that you would have previously bought both initial and third version games, then there's no meaningful price increase. If instead you think that the base game needs more features, the price is now double that of what just getting the third version used to be. Even with the jump to console prices, I probably would have picked up a 60 USD Infrared/Ultraviolet version if one existed.
?

Okay, I'll bite.

I think the change to a DLC model makes a lot more sense than releasing a "third version" with new content, with how much "content" was actually added with Crystal/Emerald/Platinum.

§ I don't like everything about the DLC model. I actually disagree with $PAID$ DLC/content updates on principle, and would much rather devs just release a fuller game from the start, even if it meant waiting longer for the game (not just a Pokémon complaint). Pokémon DLC also has problems because of levels; SV solved this by making its DLC postgame-only (which is a little unfortunate, access-wise). Anyway, Pokémon has never been good at respecting gamers' wallets. The two-game model is kinda scummy from the start, and then even Gen 1 had two updated releases. I can't say if the idea of most "third versions" was something Game Freak planned when they dropped each gen's flagship game duo or if they came into additional content down the line, but the fact that they did it for so long (and the fact that people kept buying them) is a testament to the fact that the franchise thrives on small changes to available options (also why romhacks can be so engaging, IMO).

note: I wrote a long post that ended up feeling like too much of an attack, but I don't want it to go to waste, so I've spoilered it. The preceding paragraph was originally pretty far in to my post; I've marked where it originally was.

As a whole, the base story/gameplay is mostly unchanged from the initial releases, with Crystal and Emerald adding a few new encounters/exploration bits and Platinum feeling a lot more interesting because of the expanded Sinnoh Pokédex without actually changing much in how the story progresses. None of the three add much in the way of QoL improvements, at least for a casual player (the most notable consistent addition is move tutors, IMO). When people talk about added content for these games, I feel like they usually mean the challenge content in the form of the Battle Tower/Frontier. I do mourn the loss of this content (particularly now that accessing optimized Pokémon is much easier) and believe that the PR bits regarding why it hasn't been included in recent titles aren't telling the whole picture.

BW2 are probably the only instance where an "updated release" is entirely justified, as the progression through Unova is substantially different and the story is different because it follows up on the base game, rather than just being a remixed rehash. The additional gameplay via expanded Pokédex, sidequests, and PWT also mean a lot. Oh, and they also added move tutors again.

And then, with USUM, I honestly felt that what the game added could have been better done as a DLC addition. Maybe that's a weird take, one colored by the modern game design philosophy (put out a "good enough" game that will then be expanded via paid content), but that's how it seemed to me. The games really did add a lot of content, but it didn't feel like it changed that much about the overall experience (but it is a fuller game for the same price).

Here's where my skepticism/bait-taking was building to. The SwSh and SV DLC each add two new mini-regions, two novel new adventures, and repeatable content to engage with on top of that (and move tutors!!!). Returning Dexited Pokémon are also a plus, even if you're paying for the ability to catch them in your game rather than their overall inclusion. Both of these DLC sets add more to their base games than the much-lauded Crystal/Emerald/Platinum, and are more comparable to BW2 and USUM (though I would argue that their added areas at least beat the pants off of the Ultra Hallways).

A lack of some sort of challenge arena is a shame, though Gen 8's Restricted Sparring/Dynamax Adventures appear to fit that niche in ways that only work in a format with Dynamax. As for Gen 9, I have a suspicion that they see the 6 and 7 star Tera Raid Battle events as something of a replacement; they encourage well-trained Pokémon and thought-out strategies. Sure, it doesn't replace planning out a strong team for a long streak in the Battle Tower, but it removes unfun encounter RNG (random teammates aside) and makes grinding rewards much more accessible.

[Insert §-marked paragraph here]

You said that you probably would have bought a hypothetical Gen 9 third version (I assume that means "including the DLC") if it existed. From other posts I've seen about your opinions of Gen 8/9... I don't believe that. You don't like how the current games are designed, and nothing about their DLC fundamentally changes the way they play (for what it's worth, I somewhat agree with your opinions on how mediocre exploration is in the 3D games, and think that the series will likely always have mediocre level design going forward, but I still enjoyed traversing Paldea).

Maybe you're saying, "If these games were designed like older Pokémon games, I would be a conscientious consumer and wait until the improved, expanded, definitive edition dropped to enjoy Gen 9." That's smart, if so. You're trying to follow business practices and get the most value for your money. Unfortunately you are not the target audience. You're a niche, likely long-term consumer on a forum for competitive Pokémon. Pokémon's sales show that the first two games do a lot better than a later revisit to the same region (in the same Gen). Turning that comparatively underselling "third version" and its expanded content into DLC that costs half as much as the main game makes it more palatable to most consumers, and thus increases the chance that the average Pokémon game buyer will engage with/purchase it.

In summary: while I disagree with planned, paid DLC on principle, I think it works better for Game Freak's design philosophy. The fewer "versions" I have to buy, the better.

P.S.: For what it's worth, I think the "total cost" comparison, and modern console Pokémon games releasing for ~1.5x-2x the price of older handheld games with (debatably?) less content than their predecessors is more of a discussion about modern game design and economics, and doesn't have as much bearing on the "third version vs. DLC" discussion. It's not entirely separate, but I prefer to look at it in terms of price ratio.
 
im not against paid dlc as a concept because sometimes you just come back to a concept with new things. you could say just make finished games and this is true for 90% of the gaming space, but even in like an ideal world, you cant develop games forever. you have to kill your darlings and cut things off at some point otherwise youre just never releasing it. dlc allows for an extension in development after a games already released, and sure i prefer free shit but like if its priced fairly then sure. not much different from selling a videogame instead of offering it for free to me. yeah the actual reality is much worse but we all know about that
 
While I don’t disagree that this is a likely and significant factor for the perception of the Switch games, Gens 6 and 7 are still outliers since they were priced consistently with other DS/3DS games yet receive very little of the retrospective charity that Gens 1-5 enjoy. Because in their case, they’re saddled with a entirely different unifying critical narrative; that being the transition to 3D (though realistically that should only really apply to XY and maybe ORAS, as by the time of Gen 7 they would surely have finished the transition).

Ironmage mentioned the differential of third versions vs. DLC and how that factors into it, and while I think that perspective does make sense, I also think that if anything, the phenomenon of third versions is something that should shatter any rosy illusions about Gens 1-7 across the board.

So much of the Gen 1-5 games’ high reputation is buoyed by the existence of third versions getting to act as a do-over, and getting to fill in the content that the initial releases lacked. But what that fundamentally means is that a solid half of the franchise’s offerings from 1996-2017 were in some significant ways sub-par such that they encouraged you to purchase what was essentially just a second, better version of the game you already played, for the same price. I mean, we all know X & Y, right? And how the fandom has literally not stopped dogging on it and lamenting for over a decade that it didn’t ever get a third version? Now imagine if they stopped doing third versions after Emerald, and DP and BW had to survive on their own merits. I can’t imagine that the retrospective view of the series wouldn’t look very different. (For the record, I like BW a lot, but B2W2 definitely made it a point to address a lot of the criticisms that BW received.)

Granted, in theory, a savvy and patient consumer could predict the eventual release of a third version and opt to not purchase one of the initial versions, and get a better deal for their money in the long run. But that notion runs into two complications:

- The sales numbers really don’t seem to bear that out, as the initial versions were always far and away the better sellers than the third versions, and I feel like it’s probably unlikely that a huge portion of third version adopters were also initial version abstainers, as opposed to a mix of “kids who got the last game and also wanted the newest game as well and had guardians who were willing to splash” and “super-fan nutters like moi who buy everything the main series comes out with anyway.”

- It is, of course, a speculative approach, which runs the risk of being upended by the developers choosing to break the pattern like with, say, a direct sequel that builds on the story of the initial versions instead of merely revising it (B2W2), or indeed, nothing at all (XZYZ). And also, FOMO was a still thing even back then, and always is with children especially, who generally don’t have to contemplate the financial considerations when composing their Christmas list.
My atomic blackpill is how BW1 and the Legends games are the only non-remake mainline titles made after Pokemania I can confidently declare shipped in a "complete" state without any major compromises. SM is a borderline case buoyed by personal bias but there's some pretty big lols there too (Ultra Beasts shitting around in random grass patches, empty lots where Alola Photo Clubs would end up being).

DP, XY and the Switch new generations have been litigated ad nauseum but I also think RS just not having a postgame is underrated
 
im not against paid dlc as a concept because sometimes you just come back to a concept with new things. you could say just make finished games and this is true for 90% of the gaming space, but even in like an ideal world, you cant develop games forever. you have to kill your darlings and cut things off at some point otherwise youre just never releasing it. dlc allows for an extension in development after a games already released, and sure i prefer free shit but like if its priced fairly then sure. not much different from selling a videogame instead of offering it for free to me. yeah the actual reality is much worse but we all know about that
I'll go a little further.

It's very easy to notice when a game's DLC is content chopped from the base game and readded later as DLC. Games literally get incomplete without them and they tend to be announced pretty early.

I wouldn't say the Switch Pokémon games suffer from this, but one thing's for sure. The lack of a 3rd version means that we get the horrible performance of the usual paired versions.

For example, DP and RS are notoriously known for running like a clogged nose. Both Platinum and Emerald are much better optimized, but the Switch games don't get that luxury. Their DLC only adds to the games, and it's not like they can pull a Cyberpunk and just patch the game to a better state for the most part.
 
My atomic blackpill is how BW1 and the Legends games are the only non-remake mainline titles made after Pokemania I can confidently declare shipped in a "complete" state without any major compromises. SM is a borderline case buoyed by personal bias but there's some pretty big lols there too (Ultra Beasts shitting around in random grass patches, empty lots where Alola Photo Clubs would end up being).

DP, XY and the Switch new generations have been litigated ad nauseum but I also think RS just not having a postgame is underrated

Can’t say I really disagree here, with the sole exception of having always wondered if (quoted post below related) the Daybreak update was perhaps meant to ship with Arceus but didn’t make the deadline. It’s not really got enough meat on it to merit being a paid DLC — say what you will about Hyperspace Lumiose, but Mega Dimension does still add a solid chunk of new story content, multiple new Rogue Mega boss fights, 19 new Megas, ~100 returning Pokémon and all that entails, and a bunch of new music, whereas Daybreak was mostly reused assets — but the specific way that it focuses on expanding outbreaks and providing a use to the training grounds as a venue for Trainer rematches just feels, to me at least, suspiciously like ideas they might have planned for the base game.

(Also, just to affirm, I do agree that BW feel pretty complete on their own; when I invoke them in the “imagine if their reputation weren’t bolstered by B2W2 existing” sense, I mean it more in reference to the other controversial aspects of BW. A lack of content was never really something that BW got particularly criticized for, although people did hate Musicals in comparison to Contests as a form of non-battling side-content. But certainly I think the “only Gen 5 mons until the postgame” and “the path is super linear because kids had trouble with Sinnoh” points would stand in sharper relief among fans today if BW were Gen 5’s only entry.)

For example, DP and RS are notoriously known for running like a clogged nose. Both Platinum and Emerald are much better optimized, but the Switch games don't get that luxury. Their DLC only adds to the games, and it's not like they can pull a Cyberpunk and just patch the game to a better state for the most part.

Similarly, it also means they don’t get a chance to polish up elements of the base game like Gym puzzles and their Leaders’ teams, which is unfortunate. God knows I think SwSh could use some of that.
 
My atomic blackpill is how BW1 and the Legends games are the only non-remake mainline titles made after Pokemania I can confidently declare shipped in a "complete" state without any major compromises. SM is a borderline case buoyed by personal bias but there's some pretty big lols there too (Ultra Beasts shitting around in random grass patches, empty lots where Alola Photo Clubs would end up being).

DP, XY and the Switch new generations have been litigated ad nauseum but I also think RS just not having a postgame is underrated
I'd argue there's a small compromise for BW in the form of the Dream World, given that it was the first game to introduce Hidden Abilities but with next to no evidence of this in the main game aside from the Route 4/Desert Resort Darmanitan, if I'm remembering right.

I guess the lack of Hidden Abilities is nothing you'd notice if you didn't know it was there, though.
 
Can’t say I really disagree here, with the sole exception of having always wondered if (quoted post below related) the Daybreak update was perhaps meant to ship with Arceus but didn’t make the deadline. It’s not really got enough meat on it to merit being a paid DLC — say what you will about Hyperspace Lumiose, but Mega Dimension does still add a solid chunk of new story content, multiple new Rogue Mega boss fights, 19 new Megas, ~100 returning Pokémon and all that entails, and a bunch of new music, whereas Daybreak was mostly reused assets — but the specific way that it focuses on expanding outbreaks and providing a use to the training grounds as a venue for Trainer rematches just feels, to me at least, suspiciously like ideas they might have planned for the base game.

(Also, just to affirm, I do agree that BW feel pretty complete on their own; when I invoke them in the “imagine if their reputation weren’t bolstered by B2W2 existing” sense, I mean it more in reference to the other controversial aspects of BW. A lack of content was never really something that BW got particularly criticized for, although people did hate Musicals in comparison to Contests as a form of non-battling side-content. But certainly I think the “only Gen 5 mons until the postgame” and “the path is super linear because kids had trouble with Sinnoh” points would stand in sharper relief among fans today if BW were Gen 5’s only entry.)



Similarly, it also means they don’t get a chance to polish up elements of the base game like Gym puzzles and their Leaders’ teams, which is unfortunate. God knows I think SwSh could use some of that.
Daybreak doesn't really affect my point because 1) it's a free update and 2) all its additions are pretty marginal. Like you said its cobbled together basically exclusively out of reused assets and said things come down to a bundle of new sidequests, a battle facility-adjacent thing and LGPE Master Trainers but compressed into one guy. It's appreciated for being a bit more game but it's hardly enough to majorly recalibrate anyone's opinion of the overall experience

I'd argue there's a small compromise for BW in the form of the Dream World, given that it was the first game to introduce Hidden Abilities but with next to no evidence of this in the main game aside from the Route 4/Desert Resort Darmanitan, if I'm remembering right.

I guess the lack of Hidden Abilities is nothing you'd notice if you didn't know it was there, though.
This is a preservation problem, namely the fact the Dream World website went offline many years ago
 
The game prices going up didn’t even cross my mind, but it is something that does affect my opinions on the games a lot more then I give them credit for. And while I do think that the DLCs are a better choice vs third versions, I’ve actually not bothered buying any myself.
My reasoning is that it comes down to the base games themselves not being all that, so why should I pay an extra $30-35 Canadian on top of an $80-100 dollar game to get something everyone says is great and makes the game better, when I didn’t like the initial package to begin with.

I didn’t like SWSH, why should I fork over more money to make the game actually good? Same with SV, the base game is still flawed, why should I fork over more money for its dlcs?
 
I'm of two minds on the general DLC thing.

On the one hand I understand that sometimes the creatives have a deadline and don't want to bloat their game so they ship what can be considered a "complete" version and elaborate on other ideas later (and possibly with less stress). There are also rare situations where an actually complete game gets DLC many years down the line because the devs felt like making it, e.g. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and a couple Animal Crossing games.

But on the other hand you have the companies blatantly milking their audiences with DLC planned from the word go, overpricing it, and/or very throwing stuff behind the extra paywall that fix problems in the base game. I don't own either of the SV DLCs but know one of them has an item printer thing that addresses several grinding related issues (especially with Tera Shards).

While I do like the idea of DLCs over third versions since Game Freak is encouraged to be a bit more creative with how to approach them, it's also clear that there's some degree of scumminess going on. Consider how super Pay2Win the SWSH DLCs were in regard to VGC due to Urshifu and Calyrex. I don't partake in VGC, but it still taints the overall perception of Game Freak and their DLC philosophy.
 
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Consider how blatantly pay2win the SWSH DLCs were in regard to VGC due to Urshifu and Calyrex.
I will disagree here.

Not for the p2w part, yes you're practically forced to buy the DLCs or at very least have someone who buys them and is willing to trade the legendaries to play competitive.

But... how is it any different from how it was before exactly? In fact, it was even worse before, because you literally *couldn't partake in VGC* without the 2nd version.
Worlds were ran on ORAS / USUM. You literally couldn't partecipate without them, because the older game did not have the data for the new pokemon and moves.
Meanwhile for DLCs, you can actually play without owning them if you have friends (or youtube subscribers lol) or use *other methods cough cough* to obtain the legendaries.

So realistically 2nd versions were actually MORE p2w than the DLCs are.
DLCs still give you the option to play the competitive scene without owning them if you have a way around getting the new pokemon, since the game update is distributed for free to everyone.
2nd version were a forced buy. You either had them, or didn't.

And again, I'll iterate on the part most people forget all the time. If we were still running 2nd versions, they'd be full priced games. Imagine that "Legends ZA was the second version for gen 8" (i know it isn't, but pretend). That meant that if you wanted to play VGC, you needed to own *both* SV and ZA, for a total of 120 € (and looking at the switch 2 versions, this would be 140€ next generation).
Whereas with the DLC format, you're only required to spend the 60€ for the base game, and 30€ for the DLC if you want to be independant in acquiring the new legendaries and TMs.



Basically, regardless of how one feels toward DLCs as a business practice, there is no doubt that DLCs are *less* p2w than 2nd versions were if you actually do the math correctly.
(Yes yes games used to cost less. Sorry that doesn't count, price inflation is a thing and isnt a Pokemon thing only, that's an entire gaming production issue that is not related to TPCI or GameFreaks, go complain to the AAA market)
 
Difficulty Hacks are kinda like the fast food of ROM Hacks. Easy to make, and they're practically everywhere. If I had a quarter for every ROM hack that was just "Game, but harder", I could afford a Switch 2.

Despite the shitposty nature and the fact that the postgame is the exact same as USUM's, Pokémon Stars at least TRIES to be something unique (basically trying to be SM's B2W2 or PLZA) rather than just being "USUM but impossibly hard". Unique forms for the Starters and Box Legendaries. Yeah, you can get access to Sub-Legendaries and Ultra Beasts early, but they are actually appropriately nerfed so that they aren't Disc-One Nukes (with BSTs now usually ranging from 400-500).

(Addendum: In hindsight, I really should have elaborated more on why I like Stars so much)

Stars provides all three starters with new forms called Ultra forms which are accessed by using an Ultra Malasada (a reworked Big Malasada) on them (you can also revert them back this way). They pretty much are just stronger variants of the base form with a new level up learnset with possibly a new typing. Fully evolving these can net you even more special forms of the fully evolved Alolan Starters that build upon the concept even further. Each FE Alolan Starter has 5 Ultra forms (denotated by the "-X, -Y, -Z, -EX, and -SP" suffix compared to other Ultra forms that have the "U-" prefix) that can be accessed by letting them hold either an Ultra Malasada or Beast Ball and leveling them up during a time of day (each form minus the -X one has a specific Item + time combination) and are usually modeled after a specific character, each having a new typing and ability. And in a funny case of Loophole abuse, these forms and their base Pokémon can use the Eviolite because mechanics wise, these are evolutions. VGC players would shit themselves at the thought of an Incineroar that has Drought or Shadow Tag with compatability with the Eviolite.

Sub-Legendaries, Mythicals, and Ultra Beasts are actually obtainable as normal encounters (or evolutions for the Ultra Beasts). On paper, this seems like a really bad idea giving players access to such powerful Pokémon, but they are thankfully nerfed as to not trivialize the game.

Speaking of the difficulty, unlike most hacks where the bosses are extremely difficult, Stars keeps USUM's approach of "it's hard, but newer players have tools to make it easier". The Totem Beast fights have legitimate strategies put in to them (like Blacephalon using Mind Blown + Heal Pulse strats). The only real "piss hard" fight is UB-Queen (replacing Ultra Necrozma), which is just Ultra Necrozma on crack. Thankfully if you have a Haze user and a Focus Sash, you'd be fine.
 
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