Resource National Dex Ubers Viability Rankings [Update #10 at post 342!]

[TheWorldHasSeenSomeScary]

Magearna: D to C
The set I use:
Magearna-Original @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul-Heart
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 SpD
Calm Nature
- Fleur Cannon
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch
- Tera Blast

I am of the opinion that Magearna has an actual place in Nat Dex Ubers, a niche place, but a place nothing less. So what does this "place" have to with anything, the AV set is what I'm gonna mainly talk about. The added special defense means that it can sponge special hits quite well, but nothing more important than being an excellent check to the incredibly centralizing Yveltal. Since both of Yveltal STABs are resisted, plus the fact that Magearna can hit Yveltal for Stab super effective damage with Fleur Cannon, which even without investment, will always OHKO Life orb Yveltal after the Orbs damage.

252 SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 52-62 (14.3 - 17%) -- possible 6HKO
0 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Yveltal: 398-470 (101.2 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This doesn't just apply to just Yveltal, with it's Zacian-Crowned shared typing, it can also stonewall Deoxys-Attack, thanks to it's expanding Force resist, and solid bulk accompanied by Assault Vest, and partial fairy typing making it neutral to Low Kick, along with easily switching into special moves that aren't Fire or ground type, or Primal Kyogre.

Now Magearna has alot of flaws holding it back from ever being anything above a C+, like a horrible Primal Groudon match, being setup fodder for Zacian Crowned, unimpressive special attack especially without investment, the Ho-oh issue, and lack of reliable recovery.
However, these can somewhat be undone with careful teambuilding, like Alomomola wish passing as an example, so Magearna can last longer in longer battles.
Anyways: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2499243966-c6mkc3xh97y5knj2au9l009u0154foupw Magearna's special hit taking abilities at full effect.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2499251650 Not too much, but can prob show it's capabilities against stall quite decently thanks to volt switch.

 

[unfuuny]

With webs remaining unbanned and Smeargle still being annoying as ever, I'm nomming the mon that has been keeping me sane this past week on ladder to C-.

Toedscruel Tuesday baybee

Set I've been using

Toedscruel @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mycelium Might
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Spikes
- Earth Power
- Spore
- Rapid Spin

You may wonder, what does this bum ass mushroom do? Well, it has a few very nice traits that make it one of the best anti-leads in the NatDex Ubers landscape. Most notably, and the reason I started looking at this Pokemon in the first place, is that it has an immunity to both Nuzzle, and Spore. This means it is affected by neither debilitating status conditions that the main Hyper Offense lead Smeargle uses. But that is not the only thing that Toedscruel for it; It has Rapid Spin, so it can remove Sticky Webs that Smeargle tries to set up. And it of course has hazards itself. While the mushroom unfortunately does not learn Stealth Rock, it does have access to the still very good Spikes.
However, Smeargle is not the entire hazard metagame. There are other hazard leads such as Mega Diancie, Glimmora, Shuckle, Ribombee and ofcourse, Deoxys-Speed. But Toedscruel has ways to deal with all of them through the power of friendship and also Earth Power. For Mega Diancie the gameplan is to Rapin Spin first, so you outspeed, and then click Earth Power for the OHKO. Glimmora dies to an Earth Power into Rapid Spin. Shuckle cannot withstand the unending power of 64 Rapid Spin PP and Ribombee cannot stop Toedscruel since its Grass typing prevents Stun Spore. And two Earth Powers and a Rapid Spin deals with Deoxys-Speed.
But Hyper Offense is not the only strategy, and even though facing this is when Toedscruel shines, it is most definitely not useless in the other matchups. Just like our great friend Smeargle, it has access to Spore, so it can turn off any mon that does not have access to taunt or is not named Ferrothorn. It can turn off opposing non-dedicated leads or Ho-Oh attempting to OHKO it with the funny 50/50 Sacred Fire. With Earth Power it also has a Super Effective hit on Primal Groudon and enough damage output to break Dragon Dance Zygarde Substitutes. After a Rapid Spin, it outspeeds almost everything (with exception of Deoxys-Speed), so it gets the jump on Zacian-C and can OHKO it with Tera Ground after a spike.
Toedscruel is most definitely without flaw though. I already mentioned Ho-Oh, and how it can get OHKOed by a single Sacred Fire 50% of the time 95% of the time. Yveltal also completely walls it with Taunt, but pretty much any Taunt user fares pretty well, as Earth Power from Toedscruel definitely is not a world-shatteringly powerful move. Pairing it with Eternatus and Zacian can definitely alleviate these issues though.
Also here's a funny replay https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2494793578
In conclusion, I think that Toedscruel deserves a spot on the VR due to its unique traits, which let it be a strong anti-lead, while still functioning well versus standard Balance teams. Thank you for listening to my rambling, it is always Tuesday somewhere in the world.

breezai out

 

[Bobsican]

-> A+

Frankly I think that this deserves to get this kind of rank as it directly represents how much Sticky Web defines the current metagame, but more specifically, as to explain how it's more viable than before, well, it turns out that its EV spread is quite suboptimal, and thus a "minor" development on that enables it to reduce its counterplay by a notable amount as to merit a raise, for reference here's all viable multi-hit move users against the current standard spread:

252+ Atk Kyurem-Black Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Steel Smeargle: 305-360 (97.1 - 114.6%) -- approx. 99.6% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Steel Smeargle: 227-267 (72.2 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
176+ Atk Ho-Oh Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Smeargle: 306-360 (97.4 - 114.6%) -- 92.6% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Scale Shot (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Steel Smeargle: 330-390 (105 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Now compare the above calculations over just fully investing on Defense:

252+ Atk Kyurem-Black Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Tera Steel Smeargle: 190-225 (75.6 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Tera Steel Smeargle: 143-168 (56.9 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
176+ Atk Ho-Oh Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Smeargle: 192-228 (76.4 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Scale Shot (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Tera Steel Smeargle: 210-245 (83.6 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


While some of these benchmarks compromise the Tera slot, it does mean that the relevant multi-hit move users are no longer as reliable to anti-lead Smeargle.

-> B-

As its niche relies on anti-leading Smeargle, its viability correlating accordingly to a slight raise is a fair claim, but more notably the above kind of stuff also applies to Ribombee:

252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Ribombee: 220-261 (83.9 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Tera Steel Ribombee: 225-265 (85.8 - 101.1%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to OHKO

Of course, Ribombee can still invest a little more in HP in exchange of... just the Speed tier of other fully invested Ribombee? It turns out that there's quite a gap between its own Speed tier and the crowded base 120 Speed tier, so it's possible to remove the Kyurem-B damage roll, although it's a rather niche scenario over the more common Pheromosa anti-lead.

 

[Sami]

UR --> C/C-

Iron Treads @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb / Steel Beam / Knock Off
- Rapid Spin

Just going to throw this out there since we're nominating lead Pokemon; Iron Treads is similar to Toedscruel. While it isn't immune to Spore variants of Smeargle, it is able to beat non-Tera Ghost variants of Deoxys-S since it outspeeds it. It is also immune to Glimmora's Mortal Spin.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nationaldexubers-881108
Really mid replay but it was used in NDPL (by me) and it prevents Deoxys-S from being led while denying Mega Salamence safe setup via Rock Tomb.

 

[Swas]

A --> A+

Very useful priority to have against HO teams (revenge kills Chi-Yu, Ultra Necrozma, and weakened stuff like Eternatus, and can annoy Lunala), checking it defensively is also hard as it dismantles many of the defensive cores with ease. Offensively Marshadow and Zacian-C are annoying for it but the former still doesn't like Tera Ghost mindgames or switching into Shadow Claw, while Zacian-C is easy to get low. While giving up your Arceus forme can be quite the investment it's really worth it for EKiller. Also think Earthquake isn't that bad of an option in the last slot if Zacian-C/Garganacl are particularly annoying.


A --> A+ or higher

The offensive sets are scary. Choice Specs is great at breaking fatter teams while Meteor Beam set does the same while fitting on Hyper Offense teams. Toxic Spikes is also underappreciated, a lot of HO teams and even some BO teams simply ignore having a Toxic Spikes absorber (or are forced to Tera Poison Arceus-Dark). However, defensive still has issues of 4MSS resulting in not being able to hit the Steels, so not seeing as much use as offensive sets is fair. Its versatility makes it comparable to POgre, imo even better.


B --> B+

Flying STAB is just very very potent in this tier, plus soft checking Primal-Groudon and being able to setup on it and other Pokemon like Ho-Oh is pretty cool. The speed tier is also great because it outpaces Chi-Yu and Yveltal with just max speed investment without caring for Webs. Gets easily out of hand with a couple of DDs and needs to be carefully played around.

All of the above three mons share some similarities: while threatening many bulky teams, they also retain utility against HOs which is one of the best things you can ask for in this tier.


D --> C

Zekrom has some merits that Kyurem-B lacks, such as nuking Zacian-C at +1 which Kyurem-B needs Tera for and yet does not accomplish with certainty. Also, it's not as stonewalled by Primal Groudon as people think it is. If PDon is chipped, Zekrom easily gets out of hand, and even if not, it blows a decent chunk out of PDon's health. Magnet Rise can get another DD, which I think is worth dropping Substitute for since that only really loses to Ferrothorn (and SpD Ferro is not tanking a +3 Z-Move anyway).

Calcs

+1 252 Atk Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zacian-Crowned: 313-370 (96.3 - 113.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Tera Electric Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zacian-Crowned: 265-313 (81.5 - 96.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Zekrom Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 68+ Def Groudon-Primal: 397-468 (98.5 - 116.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+3 252 Atk Zekrom Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Ferrothorn: 339-399 (96.5 - 113.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

B- --> C+

This is an extremely mu fishing mon that absolutely folds in certain mus and feels like playing a 5v6, genuinely don't believe it deserves to be ranked so high. It traps Zygarde and physically defensive Ho-Oh, and also owns stall but there's a lot more viable stuff that owns stall while not being useless into rest of the meta. But the amount of matchups where you feel like playing with a deadweight makes it very risky to bring, evident with the zero usage in NDPL VI.

View attachment 793213Magearna: D to C
The set I use:
Magearna-Original @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul-Heart
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 SpD
Calm Nature
- Fleur Cannon
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch
- Tera Blast

I am of the opinion that Magearna has an actual place in Nat Dex Ubers, a niche place, but a place nothing less. So what does this "place" have to with anything, the AV set is what I'm gonna mainly talk about. The added special defense means that it can sponge special hits quite well, but nothing more important than being an excellent check to the incredibly centralizing Yveltal. Since both of Yveltal STABs are resisted, plus the fact that Magearna can hit Yveltal for Stab super effective damage with Fleur Cannon, which even without investment, will always OHKO Life orb Yveltal after the Orbs damage.

252 SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 52-62 (14.3 - 17%) -- possible 6HKO
0 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Yveltal: 398-470 (101.2 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This doesn't just apply to just Yveltal, with it's Zacian-Crowned shared typing, it can also stonewall Deoxys-Attack, thanks to it's expanding Force resist, and solid bulk accompanied by Assault Vest, and partial fairy typing making it neutral to Low Kick, along with easily switching into special moves that aren't Fire or ground type, or Primal Kyogre.

Now Magearna has alot of flaws holding it back from ever being anything above a C+, like a horrible Primal Groudon match, being setup fodder for Zacian Crowned, unimpressive special attack especially without investment, the Ho-oh issue, and lack of reliable recovery.
However, these can somewhat be undone with careful teambuilding, like Alomomola wish passing as an example, so Magearna can last longer in longer battles.
Anyways: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2499243966-c6mkc3xh97y5knj2au9l009u0154foupw Magearna's special hit taking abilities at full effect.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2499251650 Not too much, but can prob show it's capabilities against stall quite decently thanks to volt switch.

Magearna has a bunch of nice traits on paper, but there's a more things going against its favour. It's a Fairy- and Steel-type that does not beat either of Calm Mind sets of Arceus-Dark and Arceus-Fairy, and it does not take Fire-type moves like Heat Wave and Fire Blast from Yveltal and Eternatus respectively that well compared to Fezandipiti. Moreover, Volt Switch being shut down and a free switch-in for the best Pokemon in the tier i.e. Primal Groudon is further bad for it. At least Fezandipiti can spam U-turn (also get poison procs with Toxic Chain). Fezan does better into all of these, also including Primal Kyogre. Vs stall while both are mostly pivot move bots, the difference is that Fezan can absorb Toxic Spikes and ensure your breakers aren't on a timer (also spreads poison). Magearna is only better vs Deoxys-Attack as far as special attackers go, which I think isn't enough justification to use it and ignore the other glaring weaknesses.

-> A+

Frankly I think that this deserves to get this kind of rank as it directly represents how much Sticky Web defines the current metagame, but more specifically, as to explain how it's more viable than before, well, it turns out that its EV spread is quite suboptimal, and thus a "minor" development on that enables it to reduce its counterplay by a notable amount as to merit a raise, for reference here's all viable multi-hit move users against the current standard spread:

252+ Atk Kyurem-Black Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Steel Smeargle: 305-360 (97.1 - 114.6%) -- approx. 99.6% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Steel Smeargle: 227-267 (72.2 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
176+ Atk Ho-Oh Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Smeargle: 306-360 (97.4 - 114.6%) -- 92.6% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Scale Shot (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Steel Smeargle: 330-390 (105 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Now compare the above calculations over just fully investing on Defense:

252+ Atk Kyurem-Black Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Tera Steel Smeargle: 190-225 (75.6 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Tera Steel Smeargle: 143-168 (56.9 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
176+ Atk Ho-Oh Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Smeargle: 192-228 (76.4 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Scale Shot (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Tera Steel Smeargle: 210-245 (83.6 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


While some of these benchmarks compromise the Tera slot, it does mean that the relevant multi-hit move users are no longer as reliable to anti-lead Smeargle.

-> B-

As its niche relies on anti-leading Smeargle, its viability correlating accordingly to a slight raise is a fair claim, but more notably the above kind of stuff also applies to Ribombee:

252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Ribombee: 220-261 (83.9 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Tera Steel Ribombee: 225-265 (85.8 - 101.1%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to OHKO

Of course, Ribombee can still invest a little more in HP in exchange of... just the Speed tier of other fully invested Ribombee? It turns out that there's quite a gap between its own Speed tier and the crowded base 120 Speed tier, so it's possible to remove the Kyurem-B damage roll, although it's a rather niche scenario over the more common Pheromosa anti-lead.

I think the discovery of a "anti-multi-hit moves" tech for the web setters is not enough enough to propel a rise in their viability. It just means that people need to use better counterplay than multi-hit moves, but also, you're giving up Tera on a suicide lead JUST to get Sticky Webs up. That alone can cause you to be lagging behind severely in a game, I don't really think it's really a practical scenario aside from HO mirrors in some cases.

 

[Bobsican]

I think the discovery of a "anti-multi-hit moves" tech for the web setters is not enough enough to propel a rise in their viability. It just means that people need to use better counterplay than multi-hit moves, but also, you're giving up Tera on a suicide lead JUST to get Sticky Webs up. That alone can cause you to be lagging behind severely in a game, I don't really think it's really a practical scenario aside from HO mirrors in some cases.

It does mean that there's a slight further centralization as there's less ways to reliably deal with Smeargle without using even more situational options, and it's not just setting Webs up, Smeargle can use Nuzzle first then outspeed and set Webs, which is nice utility so the foe's lead is also easier to answer afterwards, especially as Smeargle does outspeed the entire unboosted Paralyzed metagame. Ribombee can also perform something similar with Stun Spore.

 

[cfdu1202]

Maybe a hot take but I feel like the S ranks are getting too crowded, and I don't think they 100% fit the S and S- descriptions. IMO either get rid of S+, or get rid of S- then shift everything down. It is ranked by viability for A- rank and above.

Primal Groudon is the only truly irreplaceable Pokemon in the metagame, and should be one subrank above Zygarde-C. It's still a S- rank worthy Pokemon, but I feel like it can sometimes be overwhelmed in this metagame. Arceus-Dark gives your team a good switchin to Yveltal and Necrozma, two otherwise very difficult Pokemon to check.

Zacian imo is the biggest threat right now with Tera and I really don't enjoy facing an unscouted one. TB ground, TB fighting, dual STABs, substitute? Also with Kyogre, not only you beat down PDon, but you also cover the whole spectrum of teams generally speaking, from HO to stall. Marshadow's priority is as useful as ever, and provides Ekiller counterplay outside of Webs. Ho-Oh I feel like is not as dominant as it was, plenty of teams don't need its qualities. I find myself wishing it had the defensive set's bulk when using the offensive one, and its offensive prowess when using the defensive one. Plenty of top tier Pokemon will annoy it to some degree, for example CM Refresh Arceus-Dark, DD Dragon Tail Zygarde-C, Wild Charge Zacian-C, Kyogre, Stone Edge Necrozma, the Meteor Beam users... Primal Kyogre on the other hand is a monster. It can trade with basically anything in this metagame and will punch holes even in well-built teams. Very high reward Pokemon.

I'd agree with Eternatus' and Ekiller's nominations above if we keep the same ranking structure. I disagree with a Smeargle rise even with Webs, I think A is already plenty high. Honestly, unless you get Spored, Smeargle is not threatening by itself and it being A+ feels out of place with POgre, Ekiller, Eternatus or Unecro below.

Agree with a MegaMence rise. Garganacl is a decent Pokemon, and not even a Tera hog depending on the matchup. Salt Cure is very awkward to switch into. It dominates all the viable Defoggers (namely Ho-Oh and Giratina-O), and TB Fairy gives your team the sturdiest Marshadow and Zygarde-C check possible while providing an okay Yveltal counterplay, which is huge. It is also slower than Mola, so any Mola+Tina structures are fighting an uphill battle against Garganacl. Great against stall as well.

 

[bumboclaat]

We are planning to do a slate in the near future so this is a formal announcement to get the nominations in if you'd like them to be considered. Normally we give a weeks notice, but with this being such a busy time of year for a lot of the council probably expect a VR update in early 2026! I'll have my normal full post either then or before if it is done. In the meantime, I wanted to weigh on on a few of the recent nominations

As Swas mentioned, I'm really not seeing what Magearna is doing that Fezandipiti doesn't in this sort of role. Magnearna was a Pokémon I loved during the Xerneas metagame, but I've felt it is somehow unviable despite that typing and movepool pretty much since Xerneas was banned.

Sure? Not really opposed to it being ranked and it does the job fine.

It is a meme, but also kinda legitmately viable, even if it is only C-. It does fill a niche, and that niche is actually somewhat valuable. The suspect is over and sticky web is staying so having a bunch of shitmons bloat the bottom of the VR that do little more than antilead Smeargle is kinda reflective of the metagame.

I disagree with this nomination. Tera is a fine price to pay to nullify the antiwebs 'tech' and I don't think Smeargle is an A+ Pokémon regardless of the EV optimisations. The same applies to Ribombee. I think these are cool, but I don't think these are particularly game changing. I do think Smeargle is the best A rank Pokémon, but don't think it is A+. I also don't think Kyurem-B is a good example to use for Ribombee since Tera Electric is the most common and well...with that it gets +2 and has the bulk to deal with Ekiller so it really doesn't matter. I think these two Pokémon are fine where they currently are at the end of the day.

I get where the nomination is coming from, but disagree. I wouldn't be shocked if Ekiller ends up rising anyways, but I still view it as a near HO exclusive Pokémon and have not loved the other teams I've seen that try to make it work. The competition from Arceus-Ground is a bit too high given the limited scope of teams that Ekiller fits on. It has some A+ vibes to me, but I think it needs more success outside of HO where it is demonstrably an important component of those teams.

Agreed on this one. I was split between A+ and A for Eternatus last slate and iirc it ended up being a single vote from remaining in A+. Eternatus is sort of the same thing as always: some set fits on a lot of stuff, but I feel that the support it needs in the builder regardless of the set is a bit too high for S- right now. I'd be very surprised if Eternatus didn't rise to A+ this slate and wouldn't be shocked if ended up in S- as I'm likely a tad lower on it than other voters.

Agreed, but also just trapping Zygarde is fine. With Gothitelle imo you're always building a team with the assumption that it will trap some specific thing and it has important enough targets to build around. We are a long way from the days where Gothitelle could semi reliably trap two Pokémon on balance structures though.

I can kinda see C-, but C is a bit high for me. Zekrom is one of those Pokémon that does stuff, but that stuff rarely feels important enough to justify giving it the extensive amount of support it needs. Even the 'free' matchup of stall isn't nearly as brainless as people imply imo even if it is a good one. Zekrom hasn't seen much successful experimentation in a while, but I think it has some potential to be a low tier shitter. It has just been so long since it has done anything to actualize its potential and I think we are at the point in the metagame where results are needed.

I'll probably vote B+ this slate, but Mega Salamence gets a lot of undeserved glaze imo. It isn't bad, but it is a rare HO Pokémon that actually gives Zygarde the space to be a threat rather than trade with something which I really don't like. Also...for all the success it has had this year it is really only two teams. Yeah it can be a big threat after a boost, especially against offense, but even getting that is so much more difficult than it should be. It is fine in B+ I guess, but also I think it'd be fine in B. At the beginning of the year Mega Salamence was bordering on C+ imo so it has improved a lot. I wouldn't be shocked to see it in A- by the end of the generation if people 'figure it out' as it feels like there is untapped potential atm.

The 'S rank discussion' - This isn't the first time this has been brought up. I'm of the opinion that there have not really been any metagame changes that really impact whether or not S+ should exist or not. There are definitely arguments for getting rid of it, but those have not really changed nor are they more compelling. This is a roundabout way of saying if you thought S+ should have been demolished a couple of years ago then you probably still do and vice versa. I'm not really sure what has changed that merits somebody changing their stance.

'Noms' - Mostly differences I have with the current VR (S/A/B ranks)

Rises

A+ -> S-
A -> A+
A- -> A
B+ -> A-/A
B -> B+
B- -> B

Drops

S+ -> S
A -> A-
A- -> B+
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B -> B-

 

[cfdu1202]

The 'S rank discussion' - This isn't the first time this has been brought up. I'm of the opinion that there have not really been any metagame changes that really impact whether or not S+ should exist or not. There are definitely arguments for getting rid of it, but those have not really changed nor are they more compelling. This is a roundabout way of saying if you thought S+ should have been demolished a couple of years ago then you probably still do and vice versa. I'm not really sure what has changed that merits somebody changing their stance.

In my opinion, it's not really about metagame change, it's more how we define the S ranks. S ranking should be reserved for Pokemon that shape the metagame. At the beginning there were 4, nowadays there are 7.

1) This dilutes the meaning of S ranks, which, again, should show that the Pokemon control the metagame. 4 is acceptable to me, but 7 is really a lot and not representative of the metagame. If there are so many Pokemon that are dominant, then actually none of them are. See what I mean?

2) This is Ubers and it is full of powerful Pokemon that can do many roles. They are all amazing on their own. The viability rankings should represent their "power" relative to each other. If the average "power" is higher, this just means it should be harder to justify a S rank. For example, I think Ho-Oh, Eternatus, Marshadow are very close in viability and should share the same ranking letter (A, very high tier, without considering the subranks), with PDon firmly above (S tier, sitting on top of the metagame). Yet Ho-Oh and Marshadow are sharing the same tier with PDon while Eternatus is one tier below (I know, I know, the ranking is somewhat outdated). This doesn't feel right to me. Should we create the dreaded "Z" tier for PDon then? That's why I prefer to move everything down. A ranks are still great, especially considering the power level of the metagame.

3) This viability ranking is also a resource for beginners. It would become much clearer for them if they can outright see the most prominent Pokemon in the metagame.

It doesn't seem like it but I swear I don't have that strong of an opinion on this, but I felt like responding to this specific part of your comment, especially since I wasn't clear enough in my previous post.

I agree or somewhat agree on all your nominations, except

A- -> B+

Psycho Boost/Low Kick/Guess the move or lose 1/Guess the move or lose 1

Guess the Tera as well if you rely on priority to check this

It's still absurdly threatening and shouldn't drop. Yes Webs mean trouble, but it shines against everything else. Has priority. One of the rare Pokemon that can outspeed Zacian-C as well as deal meaningful damage to it. Just for this I'd keep it in A-.

Happy holidays!