• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU

Should Heavy-Duty Boots be allowed


  • Total voters
    177
  • Poll closed .
Hit list pre Genesect ban:

Regen M-Pod

Hit list post Genesect ban:

Regen M-Pod
All 3 z megas
M-Zeraora
Base Mag
Anihillape
Base Bax
Melmetal

nice stuff
I'm confused why people are suddenly acting like the concept of bans in this tier is terrible and unfounded when it's been a thing the whole time? If the argument is "don't ban genesect because this is supposed to be an unserious/for fun meta/there is no Uber tier/bans are bad" then shouldn't that logic apply to the already banned megas like Alakazam, blastoise, or magearna? I don't think so many people would enjoy that if it were to happen....

Now the argument that genescet particularly shouldn't be banned because it's not broken enough/"holds the tier together" or whatever I can at least understand though I disagree. I feel like genesect just was way to strong and versatile and had few counters, while countering everything else and was on practically every team which is annoying. But besides isn't the usual rule of thumb on Smogon "we don't allow broken things just to check other broken things"? If genescet was broken, then I don't think it should stay just to check other broken mons if anything those will just be banned
The problem is that like how neither Gren was banned pre-dlc because it was new toy despite needing to be, there are now four whole ridiculous outspeed megas that we will give bad abilities and pretend are fine instead of banning them. To say nothing of the three remaining unbanned existing ubers who would be making the tier unbearable if it weren't for exactly grappleoct's role compression, another sentence I never thought I'd be saying. This ban doesn't open up building. It smashes a gaping hole in it and expects teams trying out weaker megas - the supposed point of the format - to still be able to counter everything broken in the format.

The point is not so much "no genesect ban" it's "we know half the broken stuff in this format is considered untouchable so why are we taking out the broken check to broken first"
 
Hit list pre Genesect ban:

Regen M-Pod

Hit list post Genesect ban:

Regen M-Pod
All 3 z megas
M-Zeraora
Base Mag
Anihillape
Base Bax
Melmetal

nice stuff

The problem is that like how neither Gren was banned pre-dlc because it was new toy despite needing to be, there are now four whole ridiculous outspeed megas that we will give bad abilities and pretend are fine instead of banning them. To say nothing of the three remaining unbanned existing ubers who would be making the tier unbearable if it weren't for exactly grappleoct's role compression, another sentence I never thought I'd be saying. This ban doesn't open up building. It smashes a gaping hole in it and expects teams trying out weaker megas - the supposed point of the format - to still be able to counter everything broken in the format.

The point is not so much "no genesect ban" it's "we know half the broken stuff in this format is considered untouchable so why are we taking out the broken check to broken first"

There are a lot of people just saying the idea of banning things is bad in general because it's a pet mod, which is who I was referring to in the first half

I kinda understand the logic, but I'm not entirely convinced genesect was healthy for the tier. Honestly don't think we should have the top pokemon be non megas it defeats the purpose, and genesect just kind steamrolled everything. I really don't think genesect was better for weaker megas -i exclusively have been running weaker off meta megas like chimecho and barbaracle and genesect was by far the biggest and most consistent counter to my megas pretty much no matter what I ran. Things like mag and z megas (particularly absol) can be problems but I can generally manage them a lot more than genesect. Heck I had to expirament with rain dance when I was using chimecho because genesect would take me out in 2 blaze kicks even at +4 or 5 defense. No other pokemon has been as consistently an issue for me, especially not across multiple teams
 
There are a lot of people just saying the idea of banning things is bad in general because it's a pet mod, which is who I was referring to in the first half

I kinda understand the logic, but I'm not entirely convinced genesect was healthy for the tier. Honestly don't think we should have the top pokemon be non megas it defeats the purpose, and genesect just kind steamrolled everything. I really don't think genesect was better for weaker megas -i exclusively have been running weaker off meta megas like chimecho and barbaracle and genesect was by far the biggest and most consistent counter to my megas pretty much no matter what I ran. Things like mag and z megas (particularly absol) can be problems but I can generally manage them a lot more than genesect. Heck I had to expirament with rain dance when I was using chimecho because genesect would take me out in 2 blaze kicks even at +4 or 5 defense. No other pokemon has been as consistently an issue for me, especially not across multiple teams
Well yes the fire, steel or bug weak megas are going to struggle against the fire coverage steel bug that's not unsurprising. They're still going to struggle because you're still going to need things that beat them to beat the remaining broken stuff, which is part why Genesect was using iron head or fire coverage in the first place instead of it's hundred other options
 
Do you guys think genesect will remain banned when Gen 10 comes out? Most Megas in the pet mod are given average abilities to not overshoot expectations, so they most likely will be better in official release. And with the Spike in power level already seen in Gen-9 it's safe to assume the meta shift will be even more insane in Gen-10.
Imo genesect was already fine even in this pet mod, really good but not broken, so meta only needs a little shift for it to come back to OU.
 
Last edited:
Do you guys think genesect will remained when Gen 10 comes out? Most Megas in the pet mod are given average abilities to not overshoot expectations, so they most likely will be better in official release. And with the Spike in power level already seen in Gen-9 it's safe to assume the meta shift will be even more insane in Gen-10.
Imo genesect was already fine even in this pet mod, really good but not broken, so meta only needs a little shift for it to come back to OU.
Depends if the main ladder keeps Tera. Lot of things will stay banned if Tera stays, otherwise a LOT of stuff moves.
 
Hi everyone,

First off, thanks to the council for putting together the initial ability slate — this meta has been really fun to test, and it’s clear a lot of thought went into keeping things cohesive. After some games and teambuilding, I made a few small ability tweaks in my Poképaste that I wanted to share, along with the reasoning behind them. None of these are meant as hard disagreements; they’re more about role clarity and long-term viability based on how these mons actually play on teams.


I’ll go Pokémon by Pokémon and keep things focused.




1766387682690.png
Mega Victreebel — Corrosion (over Triage)


Triage is interesting on paper, but in practice, it pushes Victreebel into a strange semi-support role that doesn’t really leverage its offensive stats. The set in my paste is built around status pressure + forcing progress, and Corrosion fits that goal much better. Being able to Toxic traditional switch-ins like Steels gives Victreebel a real niche as a progress-maker, rather than a middling attacker that occasionally heals first.


Compared to Triage, Corrosion actually encourages interaction: opponents have to think carefully about what they pivot into it, instead of comfortably sitting on it, knowing it lacks long-term pressure.

1766387954333.png

Victreebel-Mega (M) @ Victreebelite
Ability: Corrosion
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 16 SpD / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
- Toxic
- Knock Off
- Encore
- Giga Drain

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2504573748




1766387554718.png
Mega Malamar — Simple


Malamar is one of those Pokémon that really lives or dies by how threatening its setup is. With the Bulk Up set in my paste, Simple turns Malamar into a real win condition, not just a gimmick that needs multiple turns to matter. One boost actually forces responses, which is important in a meta this fast.

One additional reason I like Simple on Mega Malamar is how well it interacts with base Malamar’s Contrary. There’s a lot of healthy mind-game potential in choosing when to Mega Evolve — staying in base form lets Malamar threaten early Contrary Superpower boosts, which forces defensive responses even if you don’t commit to Mega immediately. From there, Mega Evolution transitions Malamar cleanly into a Bulk Up win condition rather than a one-note gimmick. I think this kind of sequencing depth is a positive for the metagame, since it rewards good timing and prediction while still leaving plenty of counterplay.

Importantly, this doesn’t remove counterplay — Malamar is still slow, still vulnerable to strong special attackers, and still needs positioning. Simple just ensures that when you give it a turn, it actually does something.

1766389648929.png

Malamar (M) @ Malamarite
Ability: Simple
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Atk / 140 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Superpower
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Psycho Cut



1766387637564.png
Mega Staraptor — Moxie (over Tough Claws)


This is the change I feel most strongly about. If Staraptor keeps Tough Claws, it would become the sixth Mega in the format to receive that ability. At that point, it starts to feel oversaturated and honestly a bit lazy — especially when Staraptor already hits extremely hard without needing generic contact boosts.


Moxie gives Staraptor a much more distinct identity as a snowballing breaker that rewards aggressive positioning and correct predictions. The set in my paste plays into this by forcing trades early and turning them into momentum later. If Tough Claws is removed, I also think Intimidate or even Oblivious could be interesting alternatives that differentiate it without just inflating damage numbers.

1766389691146.png

Staraptor (M) @ Staraptite
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Knock Off



1766387590260.png
Mega Hawlucha — No Guard


Hawlucha’s niche has always been about committing to high-impact turns. No Guard supports that playstyle cleanly by letting it run strong but imperfect coverage without turning games into coin flips. The set in my paste leans into that idea — if Hawlucha finds an opening, it should be allowed to capitalize, but it still has to earn that opening.


This feels more interactive than abilities that simply boost stats passively.

1766389728511.png

Hawlucha @ Hawluchanite
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dual Wingbeat
- Cross Chop
- Stone Edge



1766387738996.png
Mega Chesnaught — Stamina


Chesnaught really shines when it’s allowed to lean fully into being a physical backbone. With Stamina, the defensive set in my paste becomes much more consistent at checking common physical threats over the course of a game, rather than being stretched thin between offense and defense.


I like this change because it doesn’t increase Chesnaught’s ceiling — it increases its reliability, which feels healthier overall.

1766389761677.png

Chesnaught (M) @ Chesnaughtite
Ability: Stamina
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpD
Careful Nature
- Leech Seed
- Payback
- Spiky Shield
- Body Press




1766387879470.png
Mega Tatsugiri — Opportunist


Tatsugiri is naturally opportunistic by design, and the ability reflects that. The set in my paste is not trying to brute-force wins; instead, Opportunist lets Tatsugiri punish overextension and setup, turning opponent progress into its own. This keeps it reactive rather than oppressive, while still giving it a reason to be used over bulkier or stronger Megas.

1766389827823.png

Tatsugiri (M) @ Tatsugirinite
Ability: Opportunist
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Calm Nature
- Flip Turn
- Protect
- Surf
- Draco Meteor



Closing Thoughts


Overall, these changes are about making each Mega feel purposeful, rather than just strong. I tried to avoid raw power creep and instead focused on abilities that create interesting decisions for both players. I’m very open to feedback — if any of these feel too strong, too weak, or redundant in practice, I’d love to hear about it and adjust.


Thanks for reading, and I’m looking forward to seeing how others are building and testing in this meta.
 
Last edited:
Hi everyone,

First off, thanks to the council for putting together the initial ability slate — this meta has been really fun to test, and it’s clear a lot of thought went into keeping things cohesive. After some games and teambuilding, I made a few small ability tweaks in my Poképaste that I wanted to share, along with the reasoning behind them. None of these are meant as hard disagreements; they’re more about role clarity and long-term viability based on how these mons actually play on teams.


I’ll go Pokémon by Pokémon and keep things focused.




View attachment 795480Mega Victreebel — Corrosion (over Triage)


Triage is interesting on paper, but in practice, it pushes Victreebel into a strange semi-support role that doesn’t really leverage its offensive stats. The set in my paste is built around status pressure + forcing progress, and Corrosion fits that goal much better. Being able to Toxic traditional switch-ins like Steels gives Victreebel a real niche as a progress-maker, rather than a middling attacker that occasionally heals first.


Compared to Triage, Corrosion actually encourages interaction: opponents have to think carefully about what they pivot into it, instead of comfortably sitting on it, knowing it lacks long-term pressure.

View attachment 795483
Victreebel-Mega (M) @ Victreebelite
Ability: Corrosion
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 16 SpD / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
- Toxic
- Knock Off
- Encore
- Giga Drain



View attachment 795477Mega Malamar — Simple


Malamar is one of those Pokémon that really lives or dies by how threatening its setup is. With the Bulk Up set in my paste, Simple turns Malamar into a real win condition, not just a gimmick that needs multiple turns to matter. One boost actually forces responses, which is important in a meta this fast.

One additional reason I like Simple on Mega Malamar is how well it interacts with base Malamar’s Contrary. There’s a lot of healthy mind-game potential in choosing when to Mega Evolve — staying in base form lets Malamar threaten early Contrary Superpower boosts, which forces defensive responses even if you don’t commit to Mega immediately. From there, Mega Evolution transitions Malamar cleanly into a Bulk Up win condition rather than a one-note gimmick. I think this kind of sequencing depth is a positive for the metagame, since it rewards good timing and prediction while still leaving plenty of counterplay.

Importantly, this doesn’t remove counterplay — Malamar is still slow, still vulnerable to strong special attackers, and still needs positioning. Simple just ensures that when you give it a turn, it actually does something.

View attachment 795487
Malamar (M) @ Malamarite
Ability: Simple
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Atk / 140 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Superpower
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Psycho Cut



View attachment 795479Mega Staraptor — Moxie (over Tough Claws)


This is the change I feel most strongly about. If Staraptor keeps Tough Claws, it would become the sixth Mega in the format to receive that ability. At that point, it starts to feel oversaturated and honestly a bit lazy — especially when Staraptor already hits extremely hard without needing generic contact boosts.


Moxie gives Staraptor a much more distinct identity as a snowballing breaker that rewards aggressive positioning and correct predictions. The set in my paste plays into this by forcing trades early and turning them into momentum later. If Tough Claws is removed, I also think Intimidate or even Oblivious could be interesting alternatives that differentiate it without just inflating damage numbers.

View attachment 795488
Staraptor (M) @ Staraptite
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Knock Off



View attachment 795478Mega Hawlucha — No Guard


Hawlucha’s niche has always been about committing to high-impact turns. No Guard supports that playstyle cleanly by letting it run strong but imperfect coverage without turning games into coin flips. The set in my paste leans into that idea — if Hawlucha finds an opening, it should be allowed to capitalize, but it still has to earn that opening.


This feels more interactive than abilities that simply boost stats passively.

View attachment 795490
Hawlucha @ Hawluchanite
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dual Wingbeat
- Cross Chop
- Stone Edge



View attachment 795481Mega Chesnaught — Stamina


Chesnaught really shines when it’s allowed to lean fully into being a physical backbone. With Stamina, the defensive set in my paste becomes much more consistent at checking common physical threats over the course of a game, rather than being stretched thin between offense and defense.


I like this change because it doesn’t increase Chesnaught’s ceiling — it increases its reliability, which feels healthier overall.

View attachment 795491
Chesnaught (M) @ Chesnaughtite
Ability: Stamina
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpD
Careful Nature
- Leech Seed
- Payback
- Spiky Shield
- Body Press




View attachment 795482Mega Tatsugiri — Opportunist


Tatsugiri is naturally opportunistic by design, and the ability reflects that. The set in my paste is not trying to brute-force wins; instead, Opportunist lets Tatsugiri punish overextension and setup, turning opponent progress into its own. This keeps it reactive rather than oppressive, while still giving it a reason to be used over bulkier or stronger Megas.

View attachment 795492
Tatsugiri (M) @ Tatsugirinite
Ability: Opportunist
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Calm Nature
- Flip Turn
- Protect
- Surf
- Draco Meteor



Closing Thoughts


Overall, these changes are about making each Mega feel purposeful, rather than just strong. I tried to avoid raw power creep and instead focused on abilities that create interesting decisions for both players. I’m very open to feedback — if any of these feel too strong, too weak, or redundant in practice, I’d love to hear about it and adjust.


Thanks for reading, and I’m looking forward to seeing how others are building and testing in this meta.
Great post. I really love a lot of these ideas. I would like to change one though, being Chesnaught.

More specifically, I’d like to discuss both Chesnaught’s and Falinks’ abilities, with them being more fitting design-wise, and I think also contributing to game balance.

:chesnaught: Chesnaught :chesnaught: Bulletproof -> Dauntless Shield

Well, it wields a giant shields protecting itself! Bulletproof is very underwhelming for an already weaker mega. I think that giving it dauntless shield will give it the slight boost it needs to see some for OU viability, since I think that stamina is a little too far for it.

:falinks: Falinks :falinks: Dauntless Shield -> Stamina
Sure, dauntless shield also makes sense on these guys, but I think it works better on Chesnaught. Meanwhile Falinks is based on roman warriors in a battle formation, which I think stamina works well with. Falinks is also a weaker mega, so I think this’d be a nice buff considering it can often already take a few hits.
 
Well yes the fire, steel or bug weak megas are going to struggle against the fire coverage steel bug that's not unsurprising. They're still going to struggle because you're still going to need things that beat them to beat the remaining broken stuff, which is part why Genesect was using iron head or fire coverage in the first place instead of it's hundred other options

Yeah, but most weaker megas genesect had easy answers to. Scovillin still is slower and takes major damage from u turn, victreebel can't touch him, mega clef is destroyed by iron head, meganium loses, froslass doesn't do so good, I can't imagine scolioede can do much, I don't really see dragalge doing much against it, floette (is floette a weaker mega now? Haven't seen it a single time since dlc) loses badly, meowstic is countered, etc etc. a lot of the za megas have dual stab that are bad vs steel, and with genesects coverage it just kinda counters most of them

I've tried a lot of megas but the main two I've been using are chimecho and barbaracle. Chimecho still struggles in this meta with mold breaker excadrill, absol z, etc but it's a lot more manageable in my experience without genesect who I always lost to more dramatically. I've had genesect non stab blaze kicks do a fair bit more damage to me with high cosmic power boosts than absol z stab dark moves at equal boost levels, and you can at least hit absol z with dazzling gleam. Chimecho doesn't care about annihilape much as if you play right you can take it down before it stacks rage fists, magearna is annoying but can't really touch you, garchomp z is pretty manageable, etc. in my experience it can handle most the meta including the "broken" stuff better than it could genesect

Similar with barbaracle, though a little less so because I could deal with genesect a little better with this guy but they still did a ton of damage especially with a download boost. I certainly wouldn't say he's any worse off without genesect however -barb can usually live a hit from mag in its base form then mega and ko with close combat, heatran goes down easily, absol isn't to hard to deal with especially with psychic terrain support (screw priority lol), etc. I'd say the loss of genesect has only made my barbaracle better or is neutral definitely not a negative

Like I said I'm less experienced with other megas but I can't think of many that are seriously negatively impacted by genesects removal. Are they suddenly going to become top tier? No. Do they still have problems with other broken/meta mons? Yeah. But at least they don't have to deal with those AND genesect. Genescet just had way to positive of matchups against a lot of the megas especially lower tiered ones
 
Hi everyone,

First off, thanks to the council for putting together the initial ability slate — this meta has been really fun to test, and it’s clear a lot of thought went into keeping things cohesive. After some games and teambuilding, I made a few small ability tweaks in my Poképaste that I wanted to share, along with the reasoning behind them. None of these are meant as hard disagreements; they’re more about role clarity and long-term viability based on how these mons actually play on teams.


I’ll go Pokémon by Pokémon and keep things focused.




View attachment 795480Mega Victreebel — Corrosion (over Triage)


Triage is interesting on paper, but in practice, it pushes Victreebel into a strange semi-support role that doesn’t really leverage its offensive stats. The set in my paste is built around status pressure + forcing progress, and Corrosion fits that goal much better. Being able to Toxic traditional switch-ins like Steels gives Victreebel a real niche as a progress-maker, rather than a middling attacker that occasionally heals first.


Compared to Triage, Corrosion actually encourages interaction: opponents have to think carefully about what they pivot into it, instead of comfortably sitting on it, knowing it lacks long-term pressure.

View attachment 795483
Victreebel-Mega (M) @ Victreebelite
Ability: Corrosion
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 16 SpD / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
- Toxic
- Knock Off
- Encore
- Giga Drain



View attachment 795477Mega Malamar — Simple


Malamar is one of those Pokémon that really lives or dies by how threatening its setup is. With the Bulk Up set in my paste, Simple turns Malamar into a real win condition, not just a gimmick that needs multiple turns to matter. One boost actually forces responses, which is important in a meta this fast.

One additional reason I like Simple on Mega Malamar is how well it interacts with base Malamar’s Contrary. There’s a lot of healthy mind-game potential in choosing when to Mega Evolve — staying in base form lets Malamar threaten early Contrary Superpower boosts, which forces defensive responses even if you don’t commit to Mega immediately. From there, Mega Evolution transitions Malamar cleanly into a Bulk Up win condition rather than a one-note gimmick. I think this kind of sequencing depth is a positive for the metagame, since it rewards good timing and prediction while still leaving plenty of counterplay.

Importantly, this doesn’t remove counterplay — Malamar is still slow, still vulnerable to strong special attackers, and still needs positioning. Simple just ensures that when you give it a turn, it actually does something.

View attachment 795487
Malamar (M) @ Malamarite
Ability: Simple
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 248 HP / 88 Atk / 140 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Superpower
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Psycho Cut



View attachment 795479Mega Staraptor — Moxie (over Tough Claws)


This is the change I feel most strongly about. If Staraptor keeps Tough Claws, it would become the sixth Mega in the format to receive that ability. At that point, it starts to feel oversaturated and honestly a bit lazy — especially when Staraptor already hits extremely hard without needing generic contact boosts.


Moxie gives Staraptor a much more distinct identity as a snowballing breaker that rewards aggressive positioning and correct predictions. The set in my paste plays into this by forcing trades early and turning them into momentum later. If Tough Claws is removed, I also think Intimidate or even Oblivious could be interesting alternatives that differentiate it without just inflating damage numbers.

View attachment 795488
Staraptor (M) @ Staraptite
Ability: Moxie
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Knock Off



View attachment 795478Mega Hawlucha — No Guard


Hawlucha’s niche has always been about committing to high-impact turns. No Guard supports that playstyle cleanly by letting it run strong but imperfect coverage without turning games into coin flips. The set in my paste leans into that idea — if Hawlucha finds an opening, it should be allowed to capitalize, but it still has to earn that opening.


This feels more interactive than abilities that simply boost stats passively.

View attachment 795490
Hawlucha @ Hawluchanite
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dual Wingbeat
- Cross Chop
- Stone Edge



View attachment 795481Mega Chesnaught — Stamina


Chesnaught really shines when it’s allowed to lean fully into being a physical backbone. With Stamina, the defensive set in my paste becomes much more consistent at checking common physical threats over the course of a game, rather than being stretched thin between offense and defense.


I like this change because it doesn’t increase Chesnaught’s ceiling — it increases its reliability, which feels healthier overall.

View attachment 795491
Chesnaught (M) @ Chesnaughtite
Ability: Stamina
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpD
Careful Nature
- Leech Seed
- Payback
- Spiky Shield
- Body Press




View attachment 795482Mega Tatsugiri — Opportunist


Tatsugiri is naturally opportunistic by design, and the ability reflects that. The set in my paste is not trying to brute-force wins; instead, Opportunist lets Tatsugiri punish overextension and setup, turning opponent progress into its own. This keeps it reactive rather than oppressive, while still giving it a reason to be used over bulkier or stronger Megas.

View attachment 795492
Tatsugiri (M) @ Tatsugirinite
Ability: Opportunist
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Calm Nature
- Flip Turn
- Protect
- Surf
- Draco Meteor



Closing Thoughts


Overall, these changes are about making each Mega feel purposeful, rather than just strong. I tried to avoid raw power creep and instead focused on abilities that create interesting decisions for both players. I’m very open to feedback — if any of these feel too strong, too weak, or redundant in practice, I’d love to hear about it and adjust.


Thanks for reading, and I’m looking forward to seeing how others are building and testing in this meta.

I agree with most of these. I really want simple Malamar with nasty plot stored power, it probably will suck but it will be funny at least. I'm not completely convinced by Hawlucha though-i think brave bird and close combat are just to much stronger than dual wing beat and cross chop that even with the recoil/defense drops they're probably better stab options most the time but idk could be wrong

Victreebel already had corrosion before, a buffed version at that, and wasn't seen much at all. Granted it still isn't so maybe corrosion is still better...but man I do not want to fight a strength sap toxic stalling victreebel lol.

I still support giving Dragonite no guard and just taking zap cannon and dynamic punch away from it, and clefable and scrafty desperately need something new imo
 
I agree with most of these. I really want simple Malamar with nasty plot stored power, it probably will suck but it will be funny at least. I'm not completely convinced by Hawlucha though-i think brave bird and close combat are just to much stronger than dual wing beat and cross chop that even with the recoil/defense drops they're probably better stab options most the time but idk could be wrong

Victreebel already had corrosion before, a buffed version at that, and wasn't seen much at all. Granted it still isn't so maybe corrosion is still better...but man I do not want to fight a strength sap toxic stalling victreebel lol.

I still support giving Dragonite no guard and just taking zap cannon and dynamic punch away from it, and clefable and scrafty desperately need something new imo
High Jump Kick can be ran over Cross Chop. BBird is still great on this set, but if you wanted to preserve HP while being able to deal with Graploct and Ape then you can opt for Dual Wingbeat.
 
Passive Effects in Pokemon Legends: Z-A
Mega Raichu X, Mega Raichu XUse Volt TackleWhen Mega Raichu uses Volt Tackle, its Attack raises
Cobalion, Cobalion Use Sacred SwordRaises both Attack and Special Attack
Terrakion, TerrakionUse Sacred SwordRaises both Attack and Special Attack
Virizion, VirizionUse Sacred SwordRaises both Attack and Special Attack
KeldeoKeldeoUse Sacred SwordRaises both Attack and Special Attack
AegislashAegislashStandardChanges to Blade Forme when it uses a
MimikyuMimikyuSend Mimikyu out in battle with no damagePrevents the first batch of damage from being done to Mimikyu
MorpekoMorpekoStandardChanges form and type of Aura Wheel after each move is used
Tatsugiri & DondozoTatsugiri & DondozoIf you have both Dondozo and Tatsugiri in your team, when you send out Dondozo, Tatsugiri will activate as well and be swallowed by Dondozo to become its commanderAll stats raised for rest of the battle.
Dondozo cannot switch out
 
Passive Effects in Pokemon Legends: Z-A
Mega Raichu X, Mega Raichu XUse Volt TackleWhen Mega Raichu uses Volt Tackle, its Attack raises
Cobalion, Cobalion Use Sacred SwordRaises both Attack and Special Attack
Terrakion, TerrakionUse Sacred SwordRaises both Attack and Special Attack
Virizion, VirizionUse Sacred SwordRaises both Attack and Special Attack
KeldeoKeldeoUse Sacred SwordRaises both Attack and Special Attack
AegislashAegislashStandardChanges to Blade Forme when it uses a
MimikyuMimikyuSend Mimikyu out in battle with no damagePrevents the first batch of damage from being done to Mimikyu
MorpekoMorpekoStandardChanges form and type of Aura Wheel after each move is used
Tatsugiri & DondozoTatsugiri & DondozoIf you have both Dondozo and Tatsugiri in your team, when you send out Dondozo, Tatsugiri will activate as well and be swallowed by Dondozo to become its commanderAll stats raised for rest of the battle.
Dondozo cannot switch out

can you type comprehensively please
 
Ive never been big on bans, but Im fine with this genesect ban. Its really going to shake up the tier in a big way, since the speed tier on scarf was oddly oppressive for certain megas that can now hit their potential.

I feel like a month of existence for genesect was quite adequate. Its an older poke we have already seen, so its not really getting deleted from existence like that. M Magearna was literally just a normal Magearna so I feel like banning that one isnt the same as losing a distinct, new mon.

Im actually a huge fan of how the tier is being run. Compared to the SV OU ban speedrun, this tier is being very generous and making sure we can actually try out the new megas.
 
On note of counters for Z Megas, I've been kinda liking Scarf Keldeo in the role. Scarf Keldeo is already pretty solid generally speaking so it's not like you'll be running it just for the Z Megas, but it outspeeds all 3 Z Megas regardless of nature (I've been running Timid, but Modest would work fine) and hits fairly well/OHKOs in response. Granted, they can OHKO Keldeo in response or threaten big damage, so it's not like Keldeo can just switch in, but if you can get it in safely/use it as a revenge killer, it's not terrible.

252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario-Mega-Z: 372-438 (132.3 - 155.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Lucario-Mega-Z Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 186-220 (57.5 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp-Mega-Z: 226-266 (63.3 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Garchomp-Mega-Z Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 270-318 (83.5 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (ok this one's kinda rough but hey it can eat an attack at least)
252 SpA Keldeo Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Absol-Mega-Z: 222-262 (81.9 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Technician Absol-Mega-Z Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 135-159 (41.7 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Granted, these calcs are w/o investment, but the 3 Z Megas are offensively orientated anyway, so you wouldn't be running bulk on them in most cases. The Z Megas are still cracked, but there's decent enough options for them - Keldeo's not a bad one, I think. It's also not some kind of easymode counter to them, but it's not terrible, either.
 

1766387682690.png
Mega Victreebel — Corrosion (over Triage)


Triage is interesting on paper, but in practice, it pushes Victreebel into a strange semi-support role that doesn’t really leverage its offensive stats. The set in my paste is built around status pressure + forcing progress, and Corrosion fits that goal much better. Being able to Toxic traditional switch-ins like Steels gives Victreebel a real niche as a progress-maker, rather than a middling attacker that occasionally heals first.


Compared to Triage, Corrosion actually encourages interaction: opponents have to think carefully about what they pivot into it, instead of comfortably sitting on it, knowing it lacks long-term pressure.

1766387954333.png

Victreebel-Mega (M) @ Victreebelite
Ability: Corrosion
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 16 SpD / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
- Toxic
- Knock Off
- Encore
- Giga Drain
Hard disagree. Triage doesn’t make thematic sense, but priority Giga Drain, Strength Sap, and Leech Life (yeah leech life) is far better than poisoning some poison immune Pokemon.
It can play either defensive or set up sweeper role and lets you check things like some variants of Baxcalibur.
can we unban some of the old bans like zygarde 50? also worth noting that mega zam is now no longer the fastest mega but I doubt it'll be healthy for the tier in any case
No.
Mega Zam is WAY stronger than the Z Megas.
252 Atk Absol-Mega-Z Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 180-213 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Lucario-Mega-Z Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 156-184 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 46.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Garchomp-Mega-Z Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 226-267 (66.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 184-217 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy in Psychic Terrain: 238-282 (69.7 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy in Psychic Terrain: 319-376 (93.5 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Only Garchomp does more damage with Draco Meteor, only on the first turn of using it, and also while ignoring terrain as Psychic does more if Psychic Terrain is up.
And Expanding Force does more than Double Mega Lucario Z’s Aura Sphere.

So no, Mega Alakazam should not be allowed anywhere near OU.
 
Hard disagree. Triage doesn’t make thematic sense, but priority Giga Drain, Strength Sap, and Leech Life (yeah leech life) is far better than poisoning some poison immune Pokemon.
It can play either defensive or set up sweeper role and lets you check things like some variants of Baxcalibur.

No.
Mega Zam is WAY stronger than the Z Megas.
252 Atk Absol-Mega-Z Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 180-213 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Lucario-Mega-Z Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 156-184 (45.7 - 53.9%) -- 46.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Garchomp-Mega-Z Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 226-267 (66.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 184-217 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy in Psychic Terrain: 238-282 (69.7 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy in Psychic Terrain: 319-376 (93.5 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Only Garchomp does more damage with Draco Meteor, only on the first turn of using it, and also while ignoring terrain as Psychic does more if Psychic Terrain is up.
And Expanding Force does more than Double Mega Lucario Z’s Aura Sphere.

So no, Mega Alakazam should not be allowed anywhere near OU.
Yeah, this is really the core issue with Triage on Mega Victreebel — it’s not just weak, it pushes the mon in the wrong direction entirely.


Triage sounds nice at first, but in practice it forces Victreebel into this slow, reactive playstyle that just doesn’t work in OU. Victreebel isn’t bulky enough to sit around clicking priority Giga Drain or Strength Sap, and once you start dedicating moveslots to recovery, you lose the ability to actually threaten anything. In a tier that’s all about momentum and forcing progress, that kind of passivity gets punished hard.


Corrosion makes way more sense, both competitively and in terms of how Victreebel wants to function. Being able to poison Steel-types immediately puts pressure on common switch-ins and makes Victreebel much harder to deal with long-term. Suddenly Pokémon like Magearna, Mega Golisopod, MChime, Corv, or Heatran can’t just come in for free and pivot out without consequences.


The big difference is that Corrosion creates pressure even when Victreebel isn’t staying in. It rewards smart doubles, hazard stacking, and chip damage, which fits perfectly in the current meta. Triage, by contrast, asks Victreebel to stay on the field longer than it realistically can.


In a metagame where Magearna and MGoli thrive by soaking hits and maintaining momentum, Corrosion flips those matchups by making their “safe” switches unsafe. That’s way more valuable than priority healing that doesn’t really change how games play out.


At the end of the day, Triage doesn’t just underperform — it misunderstands Victreebel’s role. Corrosion actually leans into what Victreebel is good at: forcing bad switches, applying constant pressure, and helping teams make progress instead of stalling in place.
 
Yeah, this is really the core issue with Triage on Mega Victreebel — it’s not just weak, it pushes the mon in the wrong direction entirely.


Triage sounds nice at first, but in practice it forces Victreebel into this slow, reactive playstyle that just doesn’t work in OU. Victreebel isn’t bulky enough to sit around clicking priority Giga Drain or Strength Sap, and once you start dedicating moveslots to recovery, you lose the ability to actually threaten anything. In a tier that’s all about momentum and forcing progress, that kind of passivity gets punished hard.


Corrosion makes way more sense, both competitively and in terms of how Victreebel wants to function. Being able to poison Steel-types immediately puts pressure on common switch-ins and makes Victreebel much harder to deal with long-term. Suddenly Pokémon like Magearna, Mega Golisopod, MChime, Corv, or Heatran can’t just come in for free and pivot out without consequences.


The big difference is that Corrosion creates pressure even when Victreebel isn’t staying in. It rewards smart doubles, hazard stacking, and chip damage, which fits perfectly in the current meta. Triage, by contrast, asks Victreebel to stay on the field longer than it realistically can.


In a metagame where Magearna and MGoli thrive by soaking hits and maintaining momentum, Corrosion flips those matchups by making their “safe” switches unsafe. That’s way more valuable than priority healing that doesn’t really change how games play out.


At the end of the day, Triage doesn’t just underperform — it misunderstands Victreebel’s role. Corrosion actually leans into what Victreebel is good at: forcing bad switches, applying constant pressure, and helping teams make progress instead of stalling in place.
We know Victreebel won’t get Triage in the real games, but that’s like the vast majority of Megas here too. And with no custom abilities, we can’t exactly give Victreebel something like Belch Gulp Missile.
Plus it honestly makes more sense that Victreebel would get an ability that lets it drain the opponent more effeciently, than Dragonite getting Magearna’s ability.
 
We know Victreebel won’t get Triage in the real games, but that’s like the vast majority of Megas here too. And with no custom abilities, we can’t exactly give Victreebel something like Belch Gulp Missile.
Plus it honestly makes more sense that Victreebel would get an ability that lets it drain the opponent more effeciently, than Dragonite getting Magearna’s ability.

I think the real issue is that Triage forces Victreebel into a role it simply does not fit. Just because it has access to Strength Sap and Giga Drain does not mean it should be played as a tank. Even at minus one, common offensive threats are still either OHKOing it or coming very close, especially once hazards are up, so it is realistically doing very little back with Sap. That makes the Triage approach feel forced and ineffective. Corrosion plays to what Victreebel actually does well by applying slower but consistent pressure through Toxic and Knock, keeping momentum going alongside hazards. The main point being missed is that post DLC, Corrosion lets Victreebel meaningfully threaten every relevant Steel-type in the tier. Victreebel is not designed to sit on the field and soak hits, and giving it Triage only highlights that mismatch instead of fixing it.


Here are a few damage calcs of common offensive threats playing into Vic. Keep in mind these are all at minus 1 and doesn't even include chip from hazards......

-1 252+ Atk Never-Melt Ice Baxcalibur Ice Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Victreebel-Mega: 324-384 (89 - 105.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
-1 248+ Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Victreebel-Mega: 372-440 (102.1 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Victreebel-Mega: 432-510 (118.6 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Skarmory-Mega Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Victreebel-Mega: 318-374 (87.3 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
 
Unrelated to the discussions but base Lucario should always had "Mega Launcher" as an ability not just Luc-Z(as speculated). The fact the "Aura pokemon" known for it's mastery of nature aura has 3 midass abilities is so lame. And it's signature move "aura sphere" is always better used by other mons like Infernape, magerna, togekiss.
Mega Laucher would make perfect sense for it, to enhances the pulse/wave moves through mastery of it's aura.
Galade got Sharpness in Gen 9, so why can't my boy luc gets the same treatment!
 
Fair. What about Zygarde-50? I remember it being obnoxious back in the early days of the meta but what about now, since there are more dragons and things like dozo in the tier
Probably shouldn't either.
The only 2 additions that could wall Zygarde are Dondozo and Mega Heatran. The latter being a Mega and both lacking reliable recovery. Plus Glare is a really uncompetitive move that shouldn't exist and should never see the light of day on anything remotely good.
 
Back
Top