Hello, going to wrap up this post -
My post on Zapdos and Special Offense.
My plan was initially to write up a post going into detail about Spikeless Offense's strengths and weaknesses. Had a good bit typed out..
However as you can see in the post above , Shitrock Enjoyer has given a great explanation on why Offensive Spikeless Zapdos feels lacklustre in this meta. The idea of Zapdos being a jack of all trades but master of none captures my view perfectly.
So naturally, I am going to steal his post and fix the formatting and grammar. I will provide brief analysis on Spikeless Offense archetypes after, before finally concluding why Spikeless Offense Zapdos isn't as great in the current metagame.
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Proof that I'm true to this, not new to this . (Not rating Spikeless Zap Offense)
RE: The Zapdos situation
Zapdos is in a weird spot. When looking at Zapdos, I often see it from its defensive position, where its ability as Pivot that is able to defensively guard vs offensive Waters, mixed attackers and Metagross makes it valuable. The problem is the tier is hostile to it in terms of how it makes progress. It's not strong enough vs Offense or Fat without Spikes to really enhance it, its also awkward defensively because any sort of chip makes it significantly worse. From this perspective, it's a frail piece of glass. All of this combined ,with the rise of Spikeless Offenses that drop Zapdos often and the downward spiral that ZapDug has been going in recent years, make Zap's image worse, mainly because Zap's place on Spikeless is practically gone and there are issues for Zap on Spikes too.
THE "TOO FLEXIBLE" PROBLEM:
Zap has this weird quirk where it does everything but the fact it does everything means that it doesn't do anything specific. Zap's toolkit also isnt great at enabling specific roles as the whole appeal of Zapdos is its flexibility as pivot. This compression however creates a lot of rigidity in practice, especially in how you play sets like BP Zap on Spikeless. It also lacks progress tools that are able to progress vs everything while being a Mon whose whole purpose is the flexibility and ability to do so many things in 1 slot .
Agility Pass somewhat fixed the issue but people were too creatively bankrupt to try doing stuff with it, leading to low usage which led to its significant theoretical value not being revealed. Passing speed could accomplish something in all matchups; vs Fat it denies Dug RK ; vs Offense it can sweep Classico and other Aero offenses.
Sub Pass theoretically can do the same but the whole appeal of Zap comes from a defensive standpoint (especially Spikeless) and losing 25% HP in Sand means you can't check a lot of stuff which just isn't worth it. Not only that but the fact its Sub doesn't have 101 HP makes it significantly worse vs stuff like Registeel and Blissey; especially Registeel which is the most perfect t1 switch in to all of Zap's tools (something that wasn't thought to exist outside of Regice) which makes SubPass worse.
To exemplify this, take Double Status Zap on Spikeless. It's able to do quite a bit vs Registeel-less / Raikou-less offense, able to check many threats with Thunder Wave and remains a threat due to its strong Thunderbolt. But there are two things:
- Toxic progresses too slowly (or not at all) vs Fat stuff
- Raikou and Registeel exist and are actual threats (boomers will despise this claim, but its factually true) and Zapdos is rarely that much of a threat for Offense anymore.
Usually what makes Zapdos "broken" vs Offense are the support mons, which is where Spikes, Gengar and Aerodactyl come into the picture. Zap doesn't have a progress tool in every MU and doesn't have a overwhelmingly positive MU vs either side of the spectrum. That is unless it's paired with Spikes and ideally Aerodactyl, to shore up defensively and make Zapdos way more dangerous offensively. Aero takes advantage of the more passive answers (with exception of Registeel) and Zap switches into various Aero checks. Not to mention the fact Zap isn't a conventional "fast revenge kill" Mon like MixMence and the Firebirds and is especially not great vs Calm Minders (Cele Rachi Kou) therefore appreciating Aero even further.
It is clear then how much Zap actually wants Spikes and that Spikeless Zapdos is often forcing defensive stability to fool yourself into thinking that you are "safe" from a defensive standpoint. It doesn't provide enough offensive value by itself to justify Spikeless, just like Jolteon for example. Is it doable? Yes obviously. It is Zapdos, the most flexible Mon in ADV. Is it rigid/feels off? Also yes. Is it unoptimal? Probably. This all comes to show that Zap as a mon is the quintenssial "filler" or something that you use because its "good enough" for your team when it comes to Spikeless.
WHAT ABOUT SPIKES?
Spikes Zap is a different story. This is where ranking the Mon super high is justifiable. However the true draw of Zap is once again how it supposedly fits on "every archetype". FJ2K's and Zpanther's posts have highlighted certain reasons that Spikeless Zap just isn't that optimal to begin with. As for Spikes, Zap does fit everywhere in the spectrum again in theory but in reality, it's at its peak on a Zap / Skarm / Pert / Tar / Aero +1 structure where the +1 is either Gengar or Metagross/ Jirachi.
Zap Mence on Spikes is very hard to do and is often defensively flimsy as it usually means Zap as the only special check (workable but not ideal without Aero) and Zap Firebird is either Stallish (valid actually, but incredibly hard to shore up vs physical attackers) or brings Aero for the extra potency anyway. Zap+Bliss is a cool case, it's especially great due to redundancy and allowing Bliss to play more freely. But oftentimes Zap + Tar + Bliss teams lack good MUs vs physical attackers and are often ass vs most Spikeless Offenses and Spikes Aero Zap (ironic isn't it). These builds usually lack Spin too (unless Forre, which makes the Offense problems worse). Once again Aero makes those aspects infinitely more playable, which is why Zap / Skarm or Forre / Pert /Bliss / Ttar / Aero is a classic. However, without Aero, Zap struggles to fit very well on midrange Spikes teams (Bliss stuff, etc) due to its problems. It is one of the GOATs of Spikes Offense ,primarily when paired with Aero (most consistent).
Zap + Cele and Zap + Jolt can work very well without Aero but their best versions have Aero in them. Spikes Stall with Zap is great at fishing but it makes the Rock Spam and Snorlax weakness much greater so usually you don't want to run it.
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[I prompted Fruhdazi for clarification because his original wording was incomplete]
Props to Superman however where Rest Zapdos is a machine and absolutely indispensible, using either SpD Wish Jira or Bliss alongside it and Flygon. Zap is practically mandatory alongside Defensive Flygon and fixes a LOT of issues with those builds. Superman is the one style where Zap is truly essential. The rest (midrange TarBliss Spikes, Bliss sandless spikes, Spikes Offense) all can do fine without it, especially if Zap isn't paired with Aero. When looking at the best Zap teams, usually Aero is there. Just look at Classico, the arguable best modern ADV team has Zapdos paired with Aerodactyl.
WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?
This means that Zapdos isn't the paragon of fitting every archetype like everyone praised it to be. It's actually quite limited if you want the best results possible, as argued here. Spikeless Zap has been a far cry from its touted greatness and while Spikes Zap is excellent, the best Zap Spikes all follow a pattern: Aero. One can argue that it's a sign of creative bankruptcy again, where players do not mess with stuff as much as they should. However, it seems to me that these trends have been constructed little by little and that a minor Zap downfall was always apparent.
This isn't to say that Zap is so much worse, that's not true at all. The thing is that Zap is rightfully not in the top 5 because it simply isn't on the same level as Bliss, Skarm, Tar, Pert and Meta (not my top 5 but what I imagine would be the top 5 if we took all top player opinions in account). Zapdos has a lot more limitations than meets the eye at first since you are drawn to the super flexible catch all pivot that's also incredible offensively but if you think deeply about both Theory and Practice, you realize Zapdos is surprisingly rigid for how flexible it is at its roles.
See ya. Heh.
Now onto a brief analysis on Spikeless Offense archetypes Zapdos may find itself on.
Calm Mind Pass
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[This is an example team]
Personally , I'm not a huge fan Calm Mind Pass. The general idea is to pass Calm Mind boosts to Mons who don't have a way to boost their Special stats on their own and use the newfound firepower / bulk to break through Mons that would usually check them. Zard at +1 finds itself seriously denting Milotic and Suicune all of a sudden; DD Tyranitar's Hidden Power Grass can smoke Swampert; etc.
My issue with this archetype comes from how many roadblock answers there are for the CM recipients. DD Tyranitar's +1 HP Grass does only 45 max to Claydol, and does nothing to Flygon. Swampert can't do anything to Milotic. Charizard at +1 still has a decent amount of checks, Defmie can eat a +1 attack and 2HKO, DD Mence can force it out, Moltres can roar freely, Gyarados, Gengar can force swap threatening Explosion, and a bunch more, including the elephant in the room Blissey. Other Calm Mind recipients include Mons like Suicune and Metagross. Though the pass is always helpful, for these Mons the boosts wont necessarily have much of an impact helping them defeat their checks. Suicune will appreciate being boosted without having to lose any meaningful health to set up, which is useful for facing the Electric types of the tier, but Mons like Snorlax, Blissey and opposing RoarCune will still be a pain. AgiliGross will appreciate the SpDef boost to runover MonoPert, and possibly the Birds. But the boost may not be that significant vs Regular Pert with EQ, or vs the Birds if it doesn't have Slide ( from the few teams I've looked at, Meta seems to consistently have Boom on CM Pass).
Having so many checks even once set up is a major issue because finding Setup + Pass opportunities becomes increasingly more difficult as a game goes on. The element of surprise is on the Celebi user's side as the opponent may go into their own Celebi or another Mon that was intended to eat a Leech, providing an early Passing opportunity. However once the element of surprise is gone, (good) opponents will play more proactively / aggressively to prevent CM passes from ocurring. With 2 slots occupied by Calm Mind and Baton Pass, Celebi will always have limited offensive coverage. Most commonly I've seen Grass+Fire coverage. The opponent can often go hard into Salamence , Fire Types, Zapdos, Aerodactyl and even Gengar because they don't fear anything Celebi has to hit them with. These Mons can hit Celebi hard, meaning its health will be too low to set up and pass for the rest of the game. Aerodactyl can OHKO Celebi depending on its coverage and Celebi's bulk. Zapdos can phase Celebi out. Gengar can come in and click Taunt or threaten Explosion.
So to rehash the previous paragraphs, Celebi can be forced out by a whole bunch of Mons. The offensive threats on CM pass can be checked by a wide variety of Mons even when boosted. This is an issue when the team has no real sustain ; no spin and no recovery. Every time , a Mon is forced out , another likely racks up Spike damage. Celebi's health bar acts as a timer for CM Pass and all your Mons will get whittled down by Spikes if you can't end the game quick enough.
View attachment 795993
CM Pass is a real and viable archetype. Unfortunately, the tier is littered with checks to its boosted threats, and with a little initiative from the opponent's side, getting set up and passing to a teammate repeatedly can be difficult. Not a terrible archetype, but it is limited and probably shouldn't be a common bring.
SD Pass
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[Example team provided by my brother mielke]
I refuse to acknowledge this archetype when it has Zapdos.
Speed Pass
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[Cool example of a Speed Pass team provided by mielke]
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[Not so cool example by my brother Spreek ]
Dead. That boy
Shitrock enjoyer tears up every time he talks about this archetype to this day.
Mixed Offense
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[Example of a Classic Mixed Offense team]
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[Example 2]
High octane offense teams that revolve around breaking down Skarmory as soon as possible before proceeding to progress with their many threats, on both sides of the Offensive spectrum. I believe this archetype will always be good, even if Zapdos is unoptimal on given builds. These teams generally follow simple gameplans, and have the firepower to make forcing plays constantly. The threats synergise offensively and defensively; each Mon possesses a unique set of defensive traits that allow them switch into positions that other Mons may not like, and exert offensive pressure immediately ; what kills one Mon may provide a setup opportunity for another ; threats break for each other, to open up game-winning paths. Pure Mons. Simple as .
Zapdos is often a glue Mon in these builds. Running double Status to support its teammates, acting as a secondary Special Check and threatening to keep problematic Water types in line. However as outlined in Fruhdazi's post, it may not be able to create progress quick enough with Status on Offense builds; it will often lack the firepower to break through and trade like you want your Mons to do on Offense builds; and its ability to check opposing threats is greatly diminished the moment you get chipped or inflicted with Status at any point. These points are part of why Zapdos' valour has been brought into question.
Still, overall Mixed Offense will always be good and real.
So why the sudden discourse? Shouldn't these points have brought Spikeless Zapdos Offense into question a long time ago?
The Speedpass ban was only a couple months ago, so the impact is still fresh. Regardless of how viable you viewed SpeedPass to be, losing access to a tool is always going to be a nerf.
The rise of Slop
we should have come up with a better name for this heat archetype :'( has put 2 of Zapdos' adversaries in the limelight.
Not only are these Mons great against Zapdos, but they also collectively fulfil most of the roles Zapdos would usually be chosen for.
Registeel is a Sand immune, Toxic immune progress maker that can also run Dual Status, consistent chip with Seismic Toss and carries the ever important Explosion which lets it always threaten to trade into an opposing Mon regardless of matchup. Its behemoth bulk and access to Counter allows it to check most Mons in the tier when healthy.
Raikou's great speed; ability to boost its damage and special defense; and coverage to hit both Pert and Celebi at the same time make it an offensive powerhouse. Its potency allows it to be played more flexibly than a Mon like Zapdos, whilst still fulfilling its defensive roles. Raikou can check Water types; has the Speed to stay ahead of +1 Endeavour Swampert and +1 TTar; check the Fire birds; and provides some relief into Gengar.
On top of these 2 Mons, Slop comes strapped with Adamant 252 Tyranitar, DD Salamence , Salac Endeavour Swampert and ocassionally Super Celebi. An archetype where every Mon can potentially switch into Zapdos and threaten it. As an Offense player, you never really want to be put on the backfoot and have your momentum halted. Slop turning Zapdos into an exploitable piece inevitably hurts Zapdos' image.
TLDR:
1 -Issues have always been visible.
2 -SpeedPass dead.
3 -Slop cucks Spikeless Offense Zapdos.
Points 2 and 3 combined have led to perception of Spikeless Zapdos Offense going down.
didn't exist, Bird would, in fact, be THE word.
. Throw it on any team and it's instantly better. Counters or checks nearly every OU and niche threats and always accomplishes SOMETHING.
- weaker and slower than medi initially, and dug trapped. Less consistent overall especially on leftovers and CB sets, but SubSalac can with good play (and luck) win games on the spot.
- you're on thin ice buddy, but spore, focus punch, and leech are pretty nice
- underwhelming speed, power, and coverage; very mag reliant; limited set variety. Limited to physical offense, but good on the teams it fits on. The embodiment of Meh.
- pretty amazing beyong reverse trapping 
- great late game cleaner. It has some atrocious matchups in 
- Fast spikes and spore, plus literally any utility option you need. 250 BST lol. Greedy but good.
- sucks ass. Use Skarm, or Forre, or Smeargle. Even this high is generous.
- I guess.
- breloom sidegrade
- Never sweeping, but leech seed is busted and weather clear has its utility.
-ridiculous damage output, but struggles to trades better than 1 for 1 with switch initiative
- sorry BKC. very exploitable.
- how the mighty have fallen. Without explosion, it would always trade down.
- the normal type equivalent of 
. Needs both pursuit and 
- run 
- the joy of switching into a 
- very hard to justify in 
