• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

not to be pretentious but yall should really read this… C.H.A.T. (Come Here for All Talk)

I have my fair share of gripes with powerscaling. For one, it's so often just completely stupid. I think my prime example is people saying Eggman outrunning Sonic puts him at immeasurable speed, when you can literally measure how fast he's going and it's not even 100mph. But my main complaint is that often people don't really argue about whether x character beats y character, its about what they percieve as x character vs what they perceive as y character. No, Mario is not star level. He may have feats that bring him to that level, but he was never intended to be that strong. A character is as powerful as the author intends them to be, and just because something happened that when equated to the real world would mean this character is really strong doesn't mean it is a fair assessment of anything about that character. Powerscaling is in general a pointless practice that uses made up numbers the author never considered or intended for a scenario often outside of the scope of the character's purpose.
 
Mathy said:
hmm... IDK if this local dog person is someone we should be supporting...
Click to expand...
Screenshot 2025-12-15 at 9.21.22 AM.png

can you believe that mathy, certified owner of gun, would say something like this?!?!
 
chroma_2903 said:
when people say "i don't like powerscaling" are they usually referring to the act of powerscaling or the archetype of person who powerscales a lot and is annoying about it? i can see good cases for both
Click to expand...

Late but I wanted to add to this discussion as someone who sometimes gets their powerscaling knowledge thirdhand from character rants/respect threads/meta memes, since personally I think there's more to these definitions that could be established.

At first, I would say the idea/act of powerscaling doesn't bother me so much as how people discuss it in practice, though it's usually the specific method of "mathematical" powerscaling/overanalysis that I find questionable, and also the culture of sometimes posting about character agendas to prove your favourite character is way past cool or how the character you don't like looks bad so they are a fraud which is also usually related.

Which isn't all too different to other hot topics like people talking about their preferred Pokemon generation/games, but at least then they're usually basing it on their personal opinions instead of reading into the games themselves and trying to prove it as a fundamental truth via mathematical concepts, usually. Aside from arguing over the merit of 2D vs 3D games.

Cancel cult alluded to this line of thinking, but I think most people consider powerscaling to be the act of putting fictional feats into real life and/or made up dimensional terms that are out of context/character to the original story and then comparing characters from there, usually in terms of fighting power.

B2W2/Pokestar Studios sums this line of thinking up well:
1766086634434.png

(For reference, this line comes from the "special event"/secret scene in Red Fog of Terror 3 if you use Defog against the foggy monster and its 11th dimensional fog. Pokestar Studios has a bunch of these easter egg/specific move interactions that were only documented relatively recently a few years back in 2022.)

For example, pitting a certain mystery visual novel's characters against Goku in a discussion about "who could beat the other character up/destroy the most universes" would make little sense to the fans of the original work and usually has little to do with the points of the original story. Arguably saying the name of the work is a spoiler of itself in this context but I think this should make sense even if you don't know what exactly I intend here.

(On the other hand, debating how other fictional detectives would fare in approaching mysteries from other settings is at least a fun hypothetical/character study for fandoms on either side. It may not be what you first associate with powerscaling but I would call this a positive example of the concept taken in a different direction.)

(Not that powerscaling of intelligence on a scale is particularly productive either, because then I could get into how Mega Malamar's described lore is not actually that impressive, but I already did that in the Malamar hate thread and its ingame performance hasn't impressed so far either so it's kind of a dead horse.)

But even in a confined fighting context, people can still overanalyze and take things too far. For example, Dragon Ball plots usually end up about fighting a super guy in the galaxy, and so people are interested in who would beat the other. Even if I don't engage in it personally, I don't really have a problem with people ranking characters in general tiers because that's usually set up in the story itself and meant to be consistent (or not, in which people might complain about that too).

It's when Dragon Ball power levels are talked about in terms of specific exact numbers/multipliers beyond when a power level was last mentioned in canon that I find the practice unproductive and so divorced from the source material that it's not really worth considering at that point, because anyone can disagree with the arbitrary numbers just as easily as they were picked.

Case in point from this very site that makes this post break the character limit if quoted in full:
(spoilers for the Dragon Ball Super anime)

MikaelHarding said:
Universal Survival Saga:
Dyspo (Immensely Suppressed): 12,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
General Kahseral: 144,000,000,000
Cocotte: 45,000,000
Vewon: 44,000,000
Tupper: 43,000,000
Zoire: 42,500,000
Kettle: 41,000,000
K'nsi: 40,900,000
Toppo (Immensely Suppressed): 140,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed+++++++++++++++): 500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Chappil: 2,400,000
Hop: 4,500,000
Hyssop: 6,700,000
Basil: 6,900,000
Lavender: 30,900,000,000,000
Begamo (Post Training): 570,000,000,000,000,000,000
Oregano: 5,600,000
Roselle: 900,000,000
Sorrel: 2,800,000
Comfrey: 67,000,000,000
Cabba: 450,000,000,000,000
Caulifla: 200,000,000,000
Kale: 250,000,000,000
Hit (Extremely Suppressed/Time Skip): 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Frost (4th Form): 210,000,000,000,000
Botamo: 23,000,000,000
Auta Magetta: 900,000,000,000,000
Saonel: 12,000,000,000,000
Pirina: 11,500,000,000,000
Dr. Rota: 45,000,000
Za Priccio: 22,800,000
Narirama: 50,800,000,000
Nigrissi: 1,240,000,000
Maji-Kayo: 90,000,000
Catopesra: 88,000,000
Borareta: 87,500,000
Koitsukai: 34,000,000
Biarra: 12,933,000,000
Pancea: 500,000
Paparoni: 1,200,000
Koiceareta: 33,000,000,000
Agnilasa: 25,000,000,000
Murichim: 9,700
Rylibeu: 56,000
Dyrasem: 450,000
Murisam: 780,000
Methiop: 45,000,000
Napapa: 67,000
Rubalt: 98,000
Zircor: 104,000
Obni: 1,800,000,000,000,000
Dium: 566,000,000,000
Damom: 70,000,000,000
Ganos: 78,100,000,000
Caway: 34,000
Dercori: 89,000,000
Shosa: 66,590,000
Monna: 1,900,000
Mink: 76,000,000
Majora: 77,000,000
Gamisalas: 1,300
Xiangca: 55,000
Ribrianne: 56,000,000,000,000
Kakunsa: 54,000,000
Roasie: 45,500,000,000
Zarbuto: 800,000
Rabanra: 1,350,000
Jimizu/Jimenez (Heavily Suppressed): 1,200,000
Bikal: 90,000,000
Zirloin: 5,900,000
Prum: 1,000,000,000
Harmira: 700,000,000,000
Goku (Base Post Training): 3,400,000,000,000,000
Narirama (Spinning Attack): 60,700,000,000
Basil (Shining Blaster): 55,000,000,000
Trio of Danger (Triangle Danger Beam): 501,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku and Vegeta (Super Saiyan Blue/Final Kamehameha): 540,000,000,000,000,000,000
Meta Botamo/Bota Magetta: 3,070,000,000,000,000
Vegeta (Mastered Super Saiyan/Heavily Suppressed): 3,100,000,000,000,000
Ribrianne (Transformed/Love Blast): 87,900,000,000,000
Vegeta (Mastered Super Saiyan/Heavily Suppressed): 88,000,000,000,000
Roasie (Transformed): 75,000,000,000
Kakunsa (Transformed): 96,000,000
Ribrianne (Powered Up): 106,000,000,000,000
Android 17 (Heavily Suppressed): 107,500,000,000,000
General Kahseral (Energy Blades): 200,000,000,000
Android 17 (Less Heavily Suppressed): 210,000,000,000
Android 18 (Suppressed): 205,000,000,000
Cocotte (Energy Dome): 75,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan 2/Suppressed): 30,000,000,000,000,000
Caulifla (Super Saiyan Grade 1-3): 62,000,000,000,000,000
Caulifla (Super Saiyan): 14,000,000,000,000,000
Caulifla (Super Saiyan 2): 29,500,000,000,000,000
Kale (Super Saiyan Berserk): 43,000,000,000,000,000
Kale (Super Saiyan Berserk Power Increasing): 57,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Blue/Extremely Suppressed): 90,000,000,000,000,000
Kale (Super Saiyan Berserk Power Increasing More): 102,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed+++++++++++++++++++++): 450,000,000,000,000,000
Hit (Immensely Suppressed/No Time Skip): 440,900,000,000,000,000
Kale (Mastered Super Saiyan Berserk): 520,000,000,000,000,000
Kale and Caulifla (Crush Buster): 700,000,000,000,000,000
Obni (Multiple Clones): 3,400,000,000,000,000,000,000
Gohan (Adapting): 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Dyspo (Light Speed Bullet): 2,400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Hit (Time Skip 1.0/Heavily Suppressed): 2,200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan God/Suppressed): 800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue/Less Suppressed): 2,600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Hit (Time Skip Adapting): 2,590,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Master Roshi: 2,000,000
Master Roshi (Buff Full Power): 6,900,000
Comfrey: 67,000,000,000
Ganos (Transformed): 85,000,000,000
Maji-Kayo (Transformed): 103,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed++++++++++++++++++++++++++): 500,000,000
Frost (4th Form): 210,000,000,000,000
Vegeta (Base): 2,590,000,000,000,000
Master Roshi (Mafuba): 12,500,000
Jimizu/Jimenez (Instant Transmission): 330,000,000,000,000
Frieza (4th Form/Suppressed): 1,700,000,000,000,000
Gohan (Mystic Full Power): 7,500,000,000,000,000,000,000
Frieza (True Golden Form/Heavily Suppressed): 8,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Frieza (4th Form 100%): 224,000,000,000,000
Frost (4th Form 100%): 222,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed+++++++++++++/Ki Released): 29,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Base Full Power/Kamehameha): 2,610,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Full Power): 25,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan 2 Full Power): 51,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan God Full Power): 5,700,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Blue Full Power): 13,215,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x10): 24,500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed+++++++++++++): 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x20): 48,500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Spirit Bomb): 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed++++++++++++): 2,500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Blue Spirit Bomb): 2,300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x10 Spirit Bomb): 2,600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed++++++++++++): 2,700,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x20): 3,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Autonomous Ultra Instinct Sign): 10,800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed++++++++++++): 11,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Autonomous Ultra Instinct Sign Adapting): 340,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Autonomous Ultra Instinct Sign Adapting More): 800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Autonomous Ultra Instinct Sign Adapting Even More): 1,900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Autonomous Ultra Instinct Sign Full Power Kamehameha): 98,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (1%): 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Extremely Exhausted): 3,400,000,000,000
Goku (Frieza's Energy): 990,000,000,000,000
Hit (Time Skip Full Power): 13,190,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed+++++++++++++): 13,200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Hit (Time Cage): 2,900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed++++++++++++/Transcending Time): 3,500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Hit (Extremely Exhausted/No Timeskip): 600,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed+++++++++++++++++++): 700,000,000,000,000,000,000
Cabba (Super Saiyan): 13,500,000,000,000,000
Mona (Giant Ball/Monster Ball): 21,000,000,000,000,000
Cabba (Super Saiyan 2): 29,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan 2/Exhausted): 33,800,000,000,000,000
Caulifla (Super Saiyan 2): 32,600,000,000,000,000
Caulifla (Super Saiyan 2 Adapting): 49,000,000,000,000,000
Kale (Mastered Super Saiyan Berserk): 790,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan 3/Exhausted): 940,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan God/Exhausted/Suppressed): 18,300,000,000,000,000,000,000
Kefla (Base/Initial): 400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Kefla (Adapting): 1,300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Blue/Stamina Recovering): 45,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Kefla (Mastered Berserk Super Saiyan/Heavily Suppressed): 550,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Kefla (Mastered Beserek Super Saiyan Full Power): 1,900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken): 103,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Autonomous Ultra Instinct Sign 2/Defense): 23,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Kefla (Mastered Berserk Super Saiyan 2/Less Suppressed): 11,600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Autonomous Ultra Instinct Sign 2/Adapting/Offense): 340,670,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Kefla (Mastered Berserk Super Saiyan 2/Power Increasing): 330,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Kefla (Mastered Berserk Super Saiyan Power Increasing More): 8,990,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Kefla (Mastered Berserk Super Saiyan 2 Crush Buster Far Beyond Limits): 100,900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Autonomous Ultra Instinct Sign 2/Offense/Full Power Kamehameha): 14,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Extremely Exhausted): 1,200,000,000,000
Ribrianne (Giant Form): 360,000,000,000,000
Android 18 (Post Training/Full Power): 400,000,000,000,000
Saonel (Powered Up/Fused with Namekians): 170,000,000,000,000
Pirina (Powered Up/Fused with Namekians): 160,500,000,000,000
Gohan (Mystic Form/Suppressed): 180,000,000,000,000
Piccolo (Post Training): 509,000,000,000,000
Piccolo (Special Beam Cannon/Makankosappo): 2,000,000,000,000,000
Damom: 70,000,000,000
Paparoni: 1,200,000
Pancea: 500,000
Koiceareta: 33,000,000,000
Agnilasa: 25,000,000,000
Pancea/Koiceareta/Agnilasa: 570,000,000,000,000,000
Agnilasa (Fused/Initial): 26,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan God/Exhausted): 309,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Frieza (True Golden Form Full Power): 13,185,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Gohan (Mystic Form Full Power): 10,900,000,000,000,000,000,000
Android 17 (Full Power): 13,150,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Vegeta (Super Saiyan Blue Full Power): 12,998,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Blue Full Power): 13,215,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Agnilasa (Power Ball): 35,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Universe 7 All Out Attack: 49,765,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Blue Full Power Beyond Limits): 350,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed++++++++++++): 400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Vegeta (Super Saiyan Blue Full Power Beyond Limits): 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Vegeta (Super Saiyan Blue Adapting): 23,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed+++++++++++): 25,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Vegeta (Super Saiyan Blue Final Flash): 605,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed+++++++++++): 800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Dyspo (Full Power/Super Maximum Light Speed Mode): 13,170,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Dyspo (Caged): 107,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Gohan (Mystic Form Adapting): 450,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Gohan (Mystic Fotm Full Power): 567,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Blue Far Beyond Limits): 720,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed++++++++++/Hint of Real Power): 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (4%): 400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Vegeta (Super Saiyan Blue Evolution): 300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken x20 Full Power): 190,950,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku and Vegeta (Tag Team): 490,950,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (5%): 500,200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Toppo (Full Power): 14,100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Toppo (God Of Destruction Mode/Heavily Suppressed): 42,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Frieza (True Golden Form Full Power): 13,185,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Toppo (God Of Destruction Mode/Hakai Suppressed): 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Frieza (4th Form Exhausted): 839,000,000,000,000
Frieza (4th Form/Exhausted/Death Ball): 1,290,000,000,000,000
Android 17 (Full Power Beyond Limits): 13,300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Toppo (God of Destruction Mode/Justice Flash/Destructive Flare/Suppressed): 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Vegeta (Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Adapting): 400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Toppo (God Of Destruction Mode/Less Suppressed): 520,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Vegeta (Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Adapting More): 1,200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Toppo (God Of Destruction Mode Full Power Hakai): 275,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Vegeta (Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Final Explosion Full Power): 1,700,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Blue Exhausted): 12,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Android 17 (Full Power Far Beyond Limits): 13,600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Vegeta (Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Fatigued): 250,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (10%): 1,986,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku, Vegeta, Android 17 (Combined Attack): 297,000,012,012,600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed+++++++++): 310,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Frieza (4th Form/Exhausted): 620,000,000,000,000
Frieza (True Golden Form Full Power/Exhausted): 12,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed++++++++++++): 13,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Android 17 (Self-Destruct): 340,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Vegeta (Base/Exhausted): 290,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed+++++++++++++++++++++++): 300,000,000
Vegeta (Base/Final Flash): 500,000,000
Goku (Vegeta's Energy): 45,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Blue): 34,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Suppressed++++++++++): 35,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Autonomous Ultra Instinct Sign 3): 2,110,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (15%): 53,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Autonomous Ultra Instinct Sign 3 Adapting): 107,300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (25%): 869,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Autonomous Ultra Instinct Sign 3 Adapting More): 868,790,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (35%): 1,430,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Autonomous Ultra Instinct Sign 3 Adapting Even More): 14,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (45%): 28,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Mastered Autonomous Ultra Instinct): 119,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (55%): 105,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (100%): 29,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Mastered Autonomous Ultra Instinct Adapting): 32,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Super Full Power/Beyond Limits): 31,997,500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Enraged Mastered Autonomous Ultra Instinct): 34,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Mastered Autonomous Ultra Instinct Full Power Maximum Kamehameha): 36,800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Android 17 (Damaged): 56,000,000,000,000
Frieza (True Golden Frieza/Exhausted): 1,290,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Extremely Exhausted): 41,000,000,000,000
Jiren (Worn Out): 2,400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Frieza and Goku (All-Out Attack): 2,640,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Goku (Super Saiyan Blue/Post T.O.P): 19,200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Vegeta (Super Saiyan Blue/Post T.O.P): 18,990,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Click to expand...

But on the other hand, Pokemon itself is also all about fighting, and already lends itself to a game format with stats and established mechanics to pit mons against each other. And I think a positive take on the style of the Tournament of Power is this thread by Yung Dramps, which is pretty much just vibes based and said to not be powerscaling/simulated, but does have established justifications and makes for a more fun/interesting read than just a huge list of numbers, with enough leeway to reply to any given point.

Yung Dramps

Thread 'The Pokemon World Tournament of Power'

Ok, so full disclosure: When you peel away all the pomp and circumstance, this post is basically a work of fanfiction.

Well, kinda. See, a while ago I had an idea: What if every mainline Pokemon region made a team of their best trainers and duked it out to see who was the best in a battle royale like Dragon Ball Super’s Tournament of Power? I put what I considered some of the best teams for everyone, and now I’ve decided to expand those lists into a full write-up. See, the issue is that I’m not really doing this in a super objective mechanical way: I didn’t copy all the teamsheets into...
  • Love
  • Like
  • Wow

So I guess you could say that's a lesson I learned writing this post, making your posts/arguments based on a story-based lens or at least established mechanics is more compelling to me than most attempts at raw measurements. Of course there's enough of the latter types of people to have their own community/influence to discuss, but I think that kind of gets into the whole fundamental disagreement between the approaches when they inevitably collide.
 
Last edited:
doipy hooves said:
For example, pitting a certain mystery visual novel's characters against Goku in a discussion about "who could beat the other character up/destroy the most universes" would make little sense to the fans of the original work and usually has little to do with the points of the original story. Arguably saying the name of the work is a spoiler of itself in this context but I think this should make sense even if you don't know what exactly I intend here.
Click to expand...
it's fate isn't it
Powerscaling the fate franchise itself is utterly ridiculous because the franchise has an incredibly unique mix of over-the-top conceptual bullshit and exceedingly grounded expectations of what the average guy can do (most of this is leftover from nasu's handling of his power system in kara no kyoukai in which what comes across as a metaphor is actually a 100% serious portion of the magic system). As a result of this, 90% of the characters wind up looking something like this:

1766204529368.png

yeah i have no idea what the hell takeuichi was doing with his male characters in the original vn
This guy's gimmick is that his spear can "reverse cause and effect". In essence, what this means is that (without sufficient luck) the act of dodging your attack would not have resulted in a successful dodge. Instead, the "cause" of your dodge (a.k.a the giant spear being flung at your chest) is erased from reality (true magic, don't question it) and the "effect" is that you still have a spear in your chest because the spear has decided it was always going to hit you. (same goes for blocking without extra magic bullshit)
He is of course limited by the fact he is still just a regular (albeit significantly above average in strength) guy. As such he tends to die in like. Every route of the VN (ginormous fate spoiler but like the anime was 12 years ago).

Unless you're looking at FGO pretty much every character is gonna be on this level where in their own context they're incredibly powerful and they *can* be powerful in another context but if said context involves people rewriting the universe or blowing up planets this guy isn't up to par in the slightest even if he IS up to par for people doing that in his own franchise.

This is of course the issue with powerscaling across verses. Two different people who can do the exact same things on paper could be completely outside of each other's league in terms of actual strength if you think about it for more than five seconds.

writing this it has very quickly dawned on me that i'm about to get clowned on for being a powerscaler

And of course in the context of the story the powers are much more useful for digging into character philosophies, just look at sakura.
 
today i discovered that there is a line of memeing going on right now known as "pencilslop". the extent of it is basically making fun of and shaming artists for not using ai in various forms and fashions. i can't tell if it's sarcastic. ten to one odds this is a psyop place your bets
 
chroma_2903 said:
today i discovered that there is a line of memeing going on right now known as "pencilslop". the extent of it is basically making fun of and shaming artists for not using ai in various forms and fashions. i can't tell if it's sarcastic. ten to one odds this is a psyop place your bets
Click to expand...
can we stop with this postslop. i swear the wordslop is getting unbearable.

(it's a sarcastic campaign, unless ai "artists" have gotten brazen enough (which they may have))
 
I watched a random old Simpsons christmas episode this morning

People will often say that the newer seasons don't hit because they aren't funny or that they overused ideas or because the characters are flanderized, but I think the biggest reason why older episodes work is just how much they manage to make you feel for the characters. People will say that Bart gets an F is hard to watch because it's just so real. And that goes for most beloved episodes from the earlier seasons, they are just very deeply human

The episode I watched ended like this:


It's so beautiful. The entire episode depicts this heartbreaking depiction of a boy deeply disappointing his mother, his regrets and it ends with his redemption. There's very little media and art that manages this
 
I'm sure I'm not the first person to remark on this but it's striking how among the "big 3" holidays there are essentially no good Easter movies. There's a surplus of Christmas classics and Halloween is literally the name of one of THE horror movies, heck you got Nightmare Before Christmas which is essentially a combined Christmas-Halloween flick. But nothing for Easter.

I guess the general public finds the easter bunny too boring and there's no supplemental gang of creatures like Halloween
 
Yung Dramps said:
I'm sure I'm not the first person to remark on this but it's striking how among the "big 3" holidays there are essentially no good Easter movies. There's a surplus of Christmas classics and Halloween is literally the name of one of THE horror movies, heck you got Nightmare Before Christmas which is essentially a combined Christmas-Halloween flick. But nothing for Easter.

I guess the general public finds the easter bunny too boring and there's no supplemental gang of creatures like Halloween
Click to expand...
suspect population-wise ramadan/holi/rosh hashanah/etc. outsell easter* (and prob hallowe'en), though idk what their concomitant film industries are like. if we're doing a strictly Generic Westerners' Holidays big 3 then valentine's day may unironically be bigger than easter. makes u think eh ?

*well tbf easter is technically more important than xmas for Propah Christians, which makes sense










tl;dr this user has never seen hop (2011)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top