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Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU

Should Heavy-Duty Boots be allowed


  • Total voters
    177
  • Poll closed .
While we're at it, we should buff original Mega Absol and Mega Garchomp too. Since both got "Mega 2" forms, their original forms are very much lacking.

:Absol-Mega:
Ability: Fur Coat
Mega Absol is super lack luster, or the original version is. It wasting a ton of points in SpA it will rarely ever use. That's 40 points of its added BST. So I can definitely say it needs a strong ability, which here would be Fur Coat.
Absol in all its forms actually has the same exact physical bulk as Alolan Persian, with its Mega sharing its Speed stat. So Absol gets that effective 138~ Def, but what separates it from Persian is its untapped movepool and much higher Atk than Persian.
With Fur Coat, Absol isn't immediately KO'd by a light breeze on the physical side of things. U-turn or some uninvested Earthquake from Garchomp no longer sends Absol to an early grave. If can even pull off a Jake Paul and take punched from the elderly.
Not only are you now more easily able to use Sword Dance, but now, Calm Mind sets are an actual possibility now. Same with Wish sets as well.

:Garchomp-Mega:
Ability: Technician
As I'm writing this, I remember suggesting giving Mega Garchomp Technician to mimic the Scyther line. I'll say it again since I nearly forgot and don't know where the original post is.
Anyways, Mega Garchomp has some pretty nice options for Technician. First one people would think of being Scale Shot. You get at minimum a 75 BP Atk that also boosts your Speed, and at max would be stronger than a Choice Band Outrage. Additionally you have Dual Chop for more consistent damage rivalling Outrage without the drawback, Breaking Swipes and Dragon Tail for utility, Bulldoze to lower the opponent's Spe while hitting only slightly less than Earthquake, and Aerial Ace providing Mega Garchomp really solid coverage for its Ground type attacks.
With Technician, og Megachomp would have a serious niche that may give a reason to use it over regular Garchomp.

Honestly is fur coat even enough? It's not like alola Persian was ever a good Pokemon or even that bulky and this tier is way more power crept. I feel like fur coat isn't a big enough improvement to it's bulk to make it better than magic bounce

I want to see absol og get something to give it more of a reason to exist other than gimmicky fake outs with z (I get the logic behind it and in sure you can catch people off guard by making them think you're z when you really aren't, but honestly then what? You're just left with an inferior mega who's bulk doesn't exist and speed tier isn't high enough for its reality) but unfortunately with z having basically the same attack but better type and way better speed it's tough.
 
Since we're on the topic and a few other people mentioned this: What about Drampa? This thing can probably get something better than drizzle. Here are just some ideas. Abilities: Contrary, Anger Shell, Steam Engine.
Dramps.png

Contrary is just good, doesn't make too much sense without overexplaining.
Anger Shell, (Or a new name), could make sense as some buffed version of berserk.
Steam Engine (Or with a new name), because this guy getting mad after water going in his face makes sense. (?)




 
I'm just so annoyed that we have a perfect ability thematically, and intead we're giving it a worse ability. It's my favorite Mega of all time and I'm biased alright...
yeah I find that annoying too. same deal with Lucario Z and mega launcher. however it's either a subpar ability or a ban for them, and banning new megas in a tier made for new megas isn't ideal
 
Shadow Claw isn't boosted by Sharpness. Only Night Slash is. And about Starmie
252 Atk Absol-Mega-Z Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie-Mega: 234-276 (89.6 - 105.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
You can OHKO with Knock Off anyways after Stealth Rock. And Shadow Sneak with the Technician Boost ensures Mega Starmie can't Aqua Jet while also making it so Mega Starmie can't just throw a Bulk Up or Sub with a Sucker Punch.
252 Atk Technician Absol-Mega-Z Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie-Mega: 216-254 (82.7 - 97.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Wouldn't bite be better than knock ofd thanks to technician? Knock off has a higher maximum power but only by 7, and it is weaker after an item removal and against megas. Bite meanwhile is close in power but more consistent and has a flinch chance

Id assume but would one shot mega starmie without rocks (as knock off is only doing 65 to mega starmie)
 
Wouldn't bite be better than knock ofd thanks to technician? Knock off has a higher maximum power but only by 7, and it is weaker after an item removal and against megas. Bite meanwhile is close in power but more consistent and has a flinch chance

Id assume but would one shot mega starmie without rocks (as knock off is only doing 65 to mega starmie)
You’re using Knock Off to remove items, which is significantly more valuable. In most cases, you’ll do 60% to the target, then KO with the 40% anyways. Even if you don’t get the KO, you remove their item, which could be a Scarf on Keldeo, Leftovers from Heatran, or a Rocky Helmet from Garchomp.
 
You’re using Knock Off to remove items, which is significantly more valuable. In most cases, you’ll do 60% to the target, then KO with the 40% anyways. Even if you don’t get the KO, you remove their item, which could be a Scarf on Keldeo, Leftovers from Heatran, or a Rocky Helmet from Garchomp.

Ig but with how frail absol is you can't often afford to not one shot something plus not hitting megas for good damage is unfortunate
 
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If but with how frail absol is you can't often afford to not one shot something plus not hitting megas for good damage is unfortunate
Knock Off deals 1.5x damage if the opponent has an item, so the first hit is stronger than Bite anyways and an OHKO means you don’t have to worry about the second hit.
Also, which Megas are OHKO’d by Bite and not Knock Off? Not including Megas where you can just use Close Combat or Shadow Sneak on anyways (like Lucario Z or Heatran).
 
ZA meta is such dogshit

everything feels obnoxious in this game, broken megas, broken magearna, broken ape, broken bax, spikes on a billion different mons, we need like 10 bans before this metagame can be classified as playable

edit: add melmetal to the list
But if we did that, then little timmy would tell us to "just adapt bro" and either not mention how to "adapt" or give out false solutions on par with using Aerial Ace to counter Evasion!
Trust the process. We need to test out Pokemon that were banned nearly immediately before and didn't get any significant nerfs or multiple hard counters! Banning each one by one over the course of several weeks!
 
But if we did that, then little timmy would tell us to "just adapt bro" and either not mention how to "adapt" or give out false solutions on par with using Aerial Ace to counter Evasion!
Trust the process. We need to test out Pokemon that were banned nearly immediately before and didn't get any significant nerfs or multiple hard counters! Banning each one by one over the course of several weeks!
Please do not be disingenuous, council listens to complaints despite our reservations.
 
I will say, it is cool to see certain Pokémon under different circumstances. Ape and Mag for instance are honestly fine without Tera. Still really good, but not game breaking which is really cool.
 
Please do not be disingenuous, council listens to complaints despite our reservations.
Sorry if I do sound impatient, it’s just that a lot of smogon feels way slower today than before. It’s not just this metagame, it has been some others.
I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes, but I do hope smogon in general picks up the pace a bit.
 
ok i think its time to ban :annihilape: and :magearna:,. TLDR: magearna has one billion sets and you'll often find one set that beats your whole team and ape punishes progress too hard by taking far too many hits and still being extremely threatening, and also due to the lack of checks its still broken even without tera.

:magearna:
I think most people more experienced then I can attest to how broken this thing is. Unlike other mons with a ton of sets, its difficult to exploit Magearna's weaknesses due to its outstanding bulk, incredible defensive typing, and role compression as it can be a setup sweeper, spiker, pivot with Volt Switch, trick room, it works. The offensive non-mega Ground types in the tier (except Garchomp who gets smoked by Fleur Cannon) typically like to run Choice items, making them exploitable for either Magearna if its not a ground type move, or a teammate like Rotom if it is a ground type move. We can "just pack a Fire type", but Magearna often finds ways around them. The most reliable answer is Heatran (and its mega) but Focus Blast is relatively common and Volt Switch can escape Magma Storm, so its not a perfect blanket check. You could whittle it down during the game, but this effort is hopeless if its Pain Split or Draining Kiss, even Leftovers make this a challenge for most teams. Even if you do hit it hard, its often not enough for an OHKO without boosting offenses through an item or a stat boost, which means if its healthy, it can just destroy your check anyway. I would even go as far as to say that the only true way to actually stop Magearna in any capacity is Sleep, but thats banned and I won't fight that battle until ive won a VGC world championship or a SCL tournament.

:annihilape:
What is there to say about Annihilape that hasn't been said already? Its got 3 really good sets (Bulk Up + Taunt, AV, Scarf + Final Gambit) and all of them punish most teams in different ways. Bulky balance teams get destroyed by the first, Offense teams get owned by AV, and Scarf + Final Gambit has the potential to win the game on the spot if the right Pokemon is removed from play. The only reason why we thought Annihilape would be fine is due to the lack of Tera, but its more then evident that Tera only allowed it to escape the bad matchup into the few mons that could check it, and afaik most of the mons that could check Annihilape in Gen 9 OU are NOT in Legends ZA,.

I do however believe that banning Rage Fist is also an option. Many of the issues Ape causes are notably tied with Rage Fist's mechanics, but considering that this metagame is going to be nuked in a month or so, might be better to just remove it.
 
I think there no necesity to more bans (i started to go focused in ladder with a optimized team, i started yesterday at 1050/1100 and curently y go to 1300 and above (with a winrate of 75%), i being faced like 1 annihilape per like 3 teams, and alside of 1 game (i lose because i tried to outspeed a sticky webbed anihilape with overquill using crunch because it was at low hp instead of use aqua jet.So Yes i hace such luck that using a sticky web team i face so mich annihilape teams, and still win (alsaid that case where i could win because it was poisoned and at ow hp
Also this is my ladder team
https://pokepast.es/ac16cc79354ce1ca
 
I think there no necesity to more bans (i started to go focused in ladder with a optimized team, i started yesterday at 1050/1100 and curently y go to 1300 and above (with a winrate of 75%), i being faced like 1 annihilape per like 3 teams, and alside of 1 game (i lose because i tried to outspeed a sticky webbed anihilape with overquill using crunch because it was at low hp instead of use aqua jet.So Yes i hace such luck that using a sticky web team i face so mich annihilape teams, and still win (alsaid that case where i could win because it was poisoned and at ow hp
Also this is my ladder team
https://pokepast.es/ac16cc79354ce1ca
If Genesect was now banned is could still beat it because gyarados, gholdengo, sticky web and if audino is not smack with Iron head (af is choice locked)
This is a ZA version of my SV team of Gholdengo Spidops and Quaquaval Core (Basicaly Sticky Web, Toxic Spikes/Thunderwave Hex/Venoshock, Spin with First Impresion and Moxie+Aqua Step/Dragon Dance Quaquaval/Gyarados)
 
Wanted to talk about some mons I've been enjoying using in the metagame recently.
:keldeo:
I've been playing with a specs set and its been very solid, specs vacuum wave is nice priority to have and this mon is very capable of tearing through teams that don't have a Slowking/Slowbro. Scarf and rocks sets I've also heard are nice, and performed pretty solidly whenever I have faced them, but haven't used them myself.
:slowking:
This guy is lowkey really nice to use, switches pretty freely into the meta's scary special breakers like Keldeo, Mega Heatran, Z Garchomp, Z Lucario, and Latios while also being a good tool to scout mons like Garchomp or Greninja thanks to regenerator. It also can handle some defensive mons who can be annoying otherwise, like Rotom-wash, Magearna, and Clefable and gain momentum off of them not immediately pivoting out as you enter or setup future sights. Leading with this mon feels like you're guranteed momentum into like 7/10 teams at the cost of a little health.
:tyranitar:
Choice band sets in particular are fun because they can really enable teammates by ripping open holes with strong knocks+sand chip and pursuit, while also allowing for Sand Rush Excadrill to be slotted on which helps a lot against all the setup mons in the meta. Great progress maker who is able to severely hinder the opponents defensive tools.
:garchomp:
Chomp has a great offensive profile with mixed life orb sets and swords dance+scale shot. It is also very, very easily one of the best defensive pieces in the meta atm imo. Rocky helmet+rough skin feels like it provides value basically every single game, even when mindlessly thrown into threats it feels like its guranteed to at the very least trade with said mon and get up hazards somewhere along the way. Great safety net and answer to some hard to answer mons like Annihilape while also having a pretty generous movepool, able to slot in dual hazards, fire blast, or even stuff like aqua tail for Mega Heatran. Not to mention it's role compression, with the ability to run either hazard as you need, it's ground typing, and fire resistance.
 
:Magearna: > :Annihilape: > :Baxcalibur: > :Melmetal:
That's my order of Mons that should be at least looked at from most problematic to least.

Also here are some calcs for that Fur Coat og Mega Absol that are pretty impressive.
252 Atk Zeraora-Mega Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Fur Coat Absol-Mega: 226-268 (83.3 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Baxcalibur Icicle Spear (4 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Fur Coat Absol-Mega: 220-264 (81.1 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Golurk-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Fur Coat Absol-Mega: 210-248 (77.4 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Darkrai-Mega Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Fur Coat Absol-Mega: 234-276 (86.3 - 101.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Pure Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Fur Coat Absol-Mega: 174-205 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0 Atk Annihilape Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Fur Coat Absol-Mega: 206-246 (76 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0 Atk Annihilape Rage Fist (300 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Fur Coat Absol-Mega: 204-241 (75.2 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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