Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU

[rahuk]

I feel like when the best counter to magearna is other magearna there's a problem lol I know there was more to your post I just thought this was funny

Honestly I think the main issue with magearna is the sheer variety of sets it has. Makes it harder to counter if you don't know what it's going to be

and the sets cover for each other's weaknesses.
the steels that wall the SP sets die to focus miss, (except gholdengo) and talonflame drops to Tbolt or VS.

until you see the set you genuinely have no idea what counters it on your team. it was the same problem with greninja except gren dropped to one mach punch. mag has actual bulk

 

[TastieGaming]

Thanks to emillight, Meteordash, Kennedy, Eli, and Sectonia for letting me bounce ideas off of them while writing/coding this!

Current Ability Assignments

Clefable-Mega: Serene Grace
Victreebel-Mega: Triage
Raichu-Mega-X: Levitate
Raichu-Mega-Y: Transistor
Starmie-Mega: Pure Power, -40 Atk
Dragonite-Mega: Soul-Heart
Meganium-Mega: Flower Veil
Feraligatr-Mega: Dragon's Maw
Ampharos-Mega: Fluffy
Absol-Mega-Z: Technician
Chimecho-Mega: Levitate
Skarmory-Mega: Tough Claws
Staraptor-Mega: Tough Claws
Gallade-Mega: Sharpness
Froslass-Mega: Snow Warning
Garchomp-Mega-Z: Rough Skin
Lucario-Mega-Z: Mind's Eye
Heatran-Mega: Earth Eater
Darkrai-Mega: Dark Aura
Emboar-Mega: Supreme Overlord
Excadrill-Mega: Mold Breaker
Golurk-Mega: Adaptability
Audino-Mega: Regenerator
Scolipede-Mega: Tinted Lens
Scrafty-Mega: Shed Skin
Eelektross-Mega: Hadron Engine
Chandelure-Mega: Magic Guard
Chesnaught-Mega: Bulletproof
Delphox-Mega: Levitate
Greninja-Mega: Protean
Meowstic-Mega: Psychic Surge
Pyroar-Mega: Drought
Dragalge-Mega: Regenerator
Floette-Mega: Regenerator
Malamar-Mega: Contrary
Barbaracle-Mega: Tough Claws
Hawlucha-Mega: Stamina
Zygarde-Mega: Aura Break
Crabominable-Mega: Ice Scales
Golisopod-Mega: Regenerator
Drampa-Mega: Drizzle
Magearna-Mega: Soul-Heart
Zeraora-Mega: Volt Absorb
Falinks-Mega: Dauntless Shield
Scovillain-Mega: Contrary
Glimmora-Mega: Rocky Payload
Baxcalibur-Mega: Thermal Exchange

I think mega Excadrill would do much better with sand rush or sand force to partner with tyranitar or hippowon. Also, mega Scrafty should get Moxie to be a DD sweeper, since right now it's really hard to run otherwise

 

[TastieGaming]

Welcome to Legends ZA OU! In this Pet Mod, we will have a speculative metagame based on the Pokemon and items currently usable in Pokemon Legends: Z-A, in a what-if on them being allowed in the turn-based battle mode. This Pet Mod will have minor changes, namely the new Mega Evolutions having proper abilities. Because this Pet Mod is based off of a Pokemon game, we will be using the personal data from Legends: Z-A for learnsets, stats, etc. with the exception of Mega Starmie. Terastallization will also be unusable. The final change is that every Pokemon will have its National Dex movesets on top of the moves they learn in Legends: Z-A; this is mainly because otherwise there would be every single entry hazard but zero hazard removal or Heavy-Duty Boots, and that is just not fun!

Submission Rules

We are not taking submissions for anything. Sorry.

Ruleset

Because this metagame is intended to sit at an OU-adjacent power level, there will unfortunately be some bans for balancing reasons.

Clauses: Team Preview, Sleep Moves Clause, HP Percentage Mod, Cancel Mod, Endless Battle Clause, Species Clause, Nickname Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause

Pokemon bans:

• Alakazam-Mega
• Blastoise-Mega
• Blaziken-Mega
• Gengar-Mega
• Groudon
• Groudon-Primal
• Kangaskhan-Mega
• Kyogre
• Kyogre-Primal
• Lucario-Mega
• Magearna-Mega
• Magearna-Original-Mega
• Marshadow
• Mewtwo
• Mewtwo-Mega-X
• Mewtwo-Mega-Y
• Rayquaza
• Rayquaza-Mega
• Salamence-Mega
• Xerneas
• Yveltal
• Zygarde
• Zygarde-Complete
• Zygarde-Mega

Ability bans:

• Arena Trap
• Moody
• Power Construct
• Shadow Tag

Item bans:

• Light Clay
• King's Rock
• Quick Claw
• Razor Fang

Move bans:

• Baton Pass
• Last Respects
• Shed Tail

Council

dhelmise
3d
Runo
lax
SwordIsBored
aim

Important Links

The Pet Mods room
Legends Z-A OU discord

I think regular Magearna desperately needs a ban. It once won a 4v1 against me with my mega still intact, and it's so bulky it can set up freely. I've also swept more than once with magearna all to a few simple reads. I also have a replay of a battle with me sweeping a friend. Coming up with magearna specific counters is just not good enough either mag is bulkier than Rotom and can usually always survive an unboosted super effective attack. When the opponent is trying to set up into ko range, it usually can just Shift Gear and outspeed. It also gets Vacuum Wave, meaning after a few boosts it can cover every option. It's moveset is also more versatile than ever and is never really consistent. The set I'm referring to is only my own personal one too. Trying to do anything to stop it is near impossible. If a Pokémon is so overpowered that it needs this much thought to even have a chance at stopping it, then it's banworthy. Please take this message into consideration, and please ban Magearna. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2507701602

 

[Gus_0Z]

https://pokepast.es/02dd38b7ede816b0 Raichu-Y Hazard Stack

 

[CodeFour]

So I'm just wondering is it actually possible to get a magearna with stored power in legends za?

 

[MC Squared]

So I'm just wondering is it actually possible to get a magearna with stored power in legends za?

Stored Power isn't in the game but this petmod allows all moves from the National Dex meta plus the new moves Pokémon got in Z-A

 

[Bad Team Bad Player]

I think regular Magearna desperately needs a ban. It once won a 4v1 against me with my mega still intact, and it's so bulky it can set up freely. I've also swept more than once with magearna all to a few simple reads. I also have a replay of a battle with me sweeping a friend...... Please take this message into consideration, and please ban Magearna. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2507701602

Your friend didnt have trick or encore AFAIK and gave free setup. His excadrill might have taken 60-70% from that stored power depending on EVs, and knocked mage out it never dies even at zero invest vs max modest mage. Looks more like a team building and skill issue in this specific case.

Dont get me wrong, Id like to delete stored power from the game, period.

 

[Ostenberg]

Rather than banning magerna, just banning Shift Gear would be sufficient. That way she will still be good without breaking the game
Shift gear is the bane of all problems, she has no business outspeeding the Z Megas after one shift gear and gaining 3 stat boosts. And she conveniently resists most priority moves so everything barely dents her which she just heals with drain kiss.
Ban SHIFT GEAR PLEASE

 

[Cuddly]

Rather than banning magerna, just banning Shift Gear would be sufficient. That way she will still be good without breaking the game
Shift gear is the bane of all problems, she has no business outspeeding the Z Megas after one shift gear and gaining 3 stat boosts. And she conveniently resists most priority moves so everything barely dents her which she just heals with drain kiss.
Ban SHIFT GEAR PLEASE

This would be like banning Fishious Rend or Rage Fist.
Smogon doesn't like to ban moves/abilities unless multiple Pokemon end up being overpowered with it. Like with Last Respect, Arena Trap, and Shed Tail. When you just ban the moves/abilities outright, you punish Pokemon that are otherwise fine with those moves like Cyclizar and Toxtricity in the case of Shift Gear.
It's also not like Shift Gear is the only component of why Magearna is broken with Stored Power. It's also Soul-Heart, which lets Magearna boost its SpA when anything faints while its out. And Magearna also gets an excellent Steel/Fairy typing with pretty good bulk that can be aid with screens (light clay being banned help mitigate Mag's, berries, and parting shot, allowing Magearna to set up multiple boosts with little able to stop it.

Yeah sucks that AV Magearna would get in the crossfire, but that's GameFreak's fault for giving a Pokemon with better Moxie and dozens of great moves Stored Power.

 

[Ostenberg]

This would be like banning Fishious Rend or Rage Fist.
Smogon doesn't like to ban moves/abilities unless multiple Pokemon end up being overpowered with it. Like with Last Respect, Arena Trap, and Shed Tail. When you just ban the moves/abilities outright, you punish Pokemon that are otherwise fine with those moves like Cyclizar and Toxtricity in the case of Shift Gear.
It's also not like Shift Gear is the only component of why Magearna is broken with Stored Power. It's also Soul-Heart, which lets Magearna boost its SpA when anything faints while its out. And Magearna also gets an excellent Steel/Fairy typing with pretty good bulk that can be aid with screens (light clay being banned help mitigate Mag's, berries, and parting shot, allowing Magearna to set up multiple boosts with little able to stop it.

Yeah sucks that AV Magearna would get in the crossfire, but that's GameFreak's fault for giving a Pokemon with better Moxie and dozens of great moves Stored Power.

True but Magerna with Shift gear is bound to get banned sooner or later. I want to really avoid more mons being entirely banned like Genesect.
Magerna only needs ONE free turn to setup a SG after that it's ggs unless you have a prankster mon with Encore like sableye.
As for Soul heart in itself is not that broken, it's an add on rather than the cause of her being broken.

 

[rahuk]

speaking of, soul-heart dragonite is kinda pointless. We took a unique, signature mythical ability and gave it to totally-unrelated dragonite only for it to not even be good with it since its special movepool is too unreliable.

drizzle would be cool, it gets accurate thunder and hurricane without stupidity like zap cannon and dynamic punch (and we can give drampa something better). sadly that will prevent it from running fire blast for the 2 million steels but oh well

 

[CodeFour]

Stored Power isn't in the game but this petmod allows all moves from the National Dex meta plus the new moves Pokémon got in Z-A

Just take stored power from magearna. After taking Genesect taking away magearna also will certainly lead to more bans. Not fun! Fun is the stated goal of altering the game further by allowing impossible moves.

I'd have maybe even rather seen this game be more pure with only actual obtainable movesets and just ban hazards if necessary since there's no removal.

Its fanfic meta and that's okay but a little bit of creativity to keep the fun and balance seems like a better policy than pretending it's something legitimate and following strict subtraction only method.

Without stored power magearna will still be a top pokemon but I think a valuable check and won't snowball out of control so easily. Calm mind iron defense/ shift gear drain kiss and filler isn't as scary without stored power. It would probably be so impotent people would rather use 4 attacks including volt switch or three attacks and spikes. That sounds like a healthy glue mon even if still S/S+

 

[Cuddly]

True but Magerna with Shift gear is bound to get banned sooner or later. I want to really avoid more mons being entirely banned like Genesect.
Magerna only needs ONE free turn to setup a SG after that it's ggs unless you have a prankster mon with Encore like sableye.
As for Soul heart in itself is not that broken, it's an add on rather than the cause of her being broken.

Magearna would just use Agility. You get 1 less boost.
And if Cgesnaught gets Grassy Terrain, you can use Grassy Seed Magearna to cover for that missing +1 Atk (or use Electric Seed with Eelektross that works too).

 

[TastieGaming]

Your friend didnt have trick or encore AFAIK and gave free setup. His excadrill might have taken 60-70% from that stored power depending on EVs, and knocked mage out it never dies even at zero invest vs max modest mage. Looks more like a team building and skill issue in this specific case.

Dont get me wrong, Id like to delete stored power from the game, period.

Yes, you're right about saying he could have put out excadrill earlier, he actually said the exact same thing, but there shouldn't need to be a counter to specifically magearna on every team that takes up a whole Pokémon slot and is there for just that. Yes, people usually stop setups after a bit, I'll admit, but it's always after a massive deficit. Magearna is just too strong. If not ban the Pokémon, ban the moves at least.

 

[TastieGaming]

Your friend didnt have trick or encore AFAIK and gave free setup. His excadrill might have taken 60-70% from that stored power depending on EVs, and knocked mage out it never dies even at zero invest vs max modest mage. Looks more like a team building and skill issue in this specific case.

Dont get me wrong, Id like to delete stored power from the game, period.

And to add on, at the point of the replay, this person was in the top 1600, higher than me by 200 points. He's not bad, I'd even say he's better than me because of how far he's climbed with his lower power teams. I agree he could have stopped it with a taunt pokemon but still, it's a big issue and has to be looked at. I just don't like beating people this way because it feels like cheating. Another replay of me after multiple tests with the same edited team: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2507986421-o02k6xfagocguq660wcd55k45iuqdllpw
(To be honest though, this player just was playing badly, no offense to them)

 

[KCKGF]

Can we get a different mdragonite ability please

 

[Cuddly]

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Expanding Force
- Mystical Fire
- Calm Mind/Taunt
Mega Gardevoir has a pretty unique standing in this Metagame as an expanding force abuser and the second strongest one behind Hoopa-Unbound. However, unlike Hoopa-Unbound, Mega Gardevoir has multiple unique traits to aid in its Expanding Force spam.
1. Most obvious difference is that Mega Gardevoir is part Fairy, and thus can threaten most of the Dark types that otherwise would be immune to Expanding Force with its Fairy STAB. Not only that, but Mega Gardevoir is much better off defensively with Psychic/Fairy having resistances and lacking nasty weaknesses to Bug (U-turn) and Fairy itself. Hoopa-U actually has better raw bulk, but in practice is frailer because of its lack of resistances. You’re much sturdier against Pokemon like Keldeo, Mega Garchomp Z, Latios, most Magearna, and Mega Golisopod
2. The other most obvious advantage Mega Gardevoir has is its Spe stat. With 100 Spe, you outspeed Annihilape, Excadrill, Ceruledge, Overqwil, Gholdengo, Baxcalibur, Glimmora, Rotoms, Gyarados, and speed tie all the base 100 Pokemon.
100 is also the Speed that lets you outspeed Mega Zeraora if Sticky Webs are up, even with Modest, and still outspeed timid Rotom-Wash. Only do that if you want to use Sticky Webs.
Hoopa with Choice Scarf or Webs otherwise is barely too slow to outspeed the Z megas and can’t even outspeed Mega Sceptile (speed ties with Webs funny enough) either.
3. Mega Gardevoir also has access to Mystical Fire. It provides Gardevoir with a more reliable means to beat Steel types, especially Scizor, Mega Golisopod, and Magearna. You hit most Steel types super effectively and also lower the SpA of any Pokemon you hit. So if you’re fighting Magearna, you can lower its SpA, weakening Stored Power, while dealing solid damage too.
Gholdengo faints to STAB Dark Pulse from Hoopa, Mega Gardevoir outspeeds non-scarf variants and avoids taking damage from Make It Rain. Even Scarf Variants wouldn’t KO after the SpA drop.
Against Mega Heatran, you lower its SpA which lets you tank more hits. You can also potentially exploit regular Heatran with Flash Fire by copying it with Trace as pre-Mega Gardevoir, which then boosts your own Mystical Fire if they Magma Storm you, and prevents you from being trapped. Regular Heatran is tough, but managable for Mega Gardevoir since Expanding Force can 2HKO even SpD Heatran at +1
+1 252 SpA Gardevoir-Mega Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran in Psychic Terrain: 157-186 (40.6 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Gardevoir-Mega Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran in Psychic Terrain: 173-204 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Hoodra can’t much fight back if its SpA is constantly being lowered and can’t Dragon Tail Mega Gardevoir out.
Mega Gardevoir 2HKOs even bulky variants of Excadrill with Mystical Fire, and doesn’t have to worry about Focus Miss.
There are more examples of Mystical Fire being useful. It’s a relief mostly for when you don’t want to rely on Focus Miss hitting. And even so, you can give Gardevoir Aura Sphere as well for Fighting coverage. It improves the Heatran match-up and Expanding Force is so strong you can 2HKO Gholdengo with just that.
252 SpA Gardevoir-Mega Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo in Psychic Terrain: 164-193 (52 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
With Psychic Terrain support from Indeedee, Mega Gardevoir is a pretty powerful Mega. With this limited metagame, not much is able to reliable switch into Mega Gardevoir’s extremely powerful Expanding force, and has the best complimentary STAB for Psychic spam.

 

[Zyro Zetta]

can someone calciulate damage on blissy max spdef and hp getting aura sphee by both mega lucarios max spatt

 

[Gigabowser20]

This would be like banning Fishious Rend or Rage Fist.
Smogon doesn't like to ban moves/abilities unless multiple Pokemon end up being overpowered with it. Like with Last Respect, Arena Trap, and Shed Tail. When you just ban the moves/abilities outright, you punish Pokemon that are otherwise fine with those moves like Cyclizar and Toxtricity in the case of Shift Gear.
It's also not like Shift Gear is the only component of why Magearna is broken with Stored Power. It's also Soul-Heart, which lets Magearna boost its SpA when anything faints while its out. And Magearna also gets an excellent Steel/Fairy typing with pretty good bulk that can be aid with screens (light clay being banned help mitigate Mag's, berries, and parting shot, allowing Magearna to set up multiple boosts with little able to stop it.

Yeah sucks that AV Magearna would get in the crossfire, but that's GameFreak's fault for giving a Pokemon with better Moxie and dozens of great moves Stored Power.

A case could be made that genescet could be balanced without shift gear, meaning at least two pokemon were/are "broken" at least in part because of it

That said I'm not In favor of a shift gear ban. The move itself isn't broken unlike last respects or shed tail (which my hot take is that shed tail is fine outside of cyclizar, at least when it was on orthworm. Not sure about now that sceptile and heliolisk have it)

 

[Gigabowser20]

Does anyone that is good with Calcs know how many relavent pokemon that barbaracle can one shot with tough claws that he wouldn't be able to without it? I've had so many matches that lose because of a missed stone edge that I very likely would have won if I landed it, and stone edge covers a lot of the meta. I honestly am curious if no guard is the better ability for it at this point

 

[Cuddly]

Does anyone that is good with Calcs know how many relavent pokemon that barbaracle can one shot with tough claws that he wouldn't be able to without it? I've had so many matches that lose because of a missed stone edge that I very likely would have won if I landed it, and stone edge covers a lot of the meta. I honestly am curious if no guard is the better ability for it at this point

Just go to this calc and go to the One vs All tab. You can check which Pokemon Mega Barbaracle OHKOs and which ones it doesn't with and without Tough Claws.
You can check when Barb stops OHKOing threats for both under different conditions.

 

[Gigabowser20]

Just go to this calc and go to the One vs All tab. You can check which Pokemon Mega Barbaracle OHKOs and which ones it doesn't with and without Tough Claws.
You can check when Barb stops OHKOing threats for both under different conditions.

Oh thanks. Is there a way to set the one vs all to za ou instead of sv ou?

 

[rahuk]

Oh thanks. Is there a way to set the one vs all to za ou instead of sv ou?

you can use natdex and ignore non-natdex stuff

 

[Cuddly]

Oh thanks. Is there a way to set the one vs all to za ou instead of sv ou?

Unfortunately no. but besides the megas, you can check everything else. And it's fairly obvious for most megas which ones are OHKO'd by Close Combat at +2 with Tough Claws or not.

Also while writing thought of this gimmicky Slurpuff set.
Slurpuff @ Focus Sash
Ability: Unburden
Level: 84
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Sticky Web
- Magic Coat
- Endeavor
- Misty Explosion
Level 84 since that's the minimum level Slurpuff can be to still outspeed Mega Zeraora after an Unburden boost. The lower level and min bulk helping you use your own Focus Sash. It's very gimmicky.

 

[Gigabowser20]

Unfortunately no. but besides the megas, you can check everything else. And it's fairly obvious for most megas which ones are OHKO'd by Close Combat at +2 with Tough Claws or not.

Also while writing thought of this gimmicky Slurpuff set.
Slurpuff @ Focus Sash
Ability: Unburden
Level: 84
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Sticky Web
- Magic Coat
- Endeavor
- Misty Explosion
Level 84 since that's the minimum level Slurpuff can be to still outspeed Mega Zeraora after an Unburden boost. The lower level and min bulk helping you use your own Focus Sash. It's very gimmicky.

I've seen this slurpuff set quite a bit actually, just not the level 84 part.