Pokemon Legends: Z-A Combat/PVP Discussion Thread

[TheMantyke]

Golisopod @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Waterfall
- Close Combat / Drill Run
- Leech Life / Protect

On the topic of ridiculous moves, let's talk about First Impression.

At a glance, the move doesn't appear all that impressive - 90 BP, only usable when it is the first move that Golisopod uses every time it comes out. However, what may not be the most well documented aspect of First Impression is that it is guaranteed to critical hit if you + it. Combined with its near-instantaneous cast (as with just about every priority move in the game), Golisopod can deal massive, nearly unreactable burst damage. It is the king of kill steals and nothing in the game comes close.

252+ Atk Life Orb Golisopod First Impression+ vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Absol-Mega-Z on a critical hit: 202-240 (117.4 - 139.5%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Golisopod First Impression+ vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Porygon-Z on a critical hit: 177-210 (92.1 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

These two Pokemon are your two primary meta targets with First Impression+. Absol Z is slippery and can rapidly clean up the entire field, and Golisopod is one of the most reliable ways of removing it as First Impression can hit before Absol can Phantom Force away. Be careful though, as First Impression can still be dodged if Absol gets off a successful pre-emptive Phantom Force, so it's generally best to wait until you see that it's been used. You may also want to wait for a round of Life Orb chip on Porygon-Z before attempting to delete it. Since First Impression is a guaranteed crit, it will also ignore Screens, so these Pokemon don't really have a chance of withstanding it.

Golisopod's fun UNLOCKS if you can pick up a Red Buff - its burst damage becomes truly heinous. Even bulky Pokemon and semi-fragile resists can be OHKOed

Red Item 252+ Atk Life Orb Golisopod First Impression+ vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Metagross-Mega on a critical hit: 186-221 (99.4 - 118.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Red Item 252+ Atk Life Orb Golisopod First Impression+ vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom-Fan on a critical hit: 151-179 (96.1 - 114%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Red Item 252+ Atk Life Orb Golisopod First Impression+ vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Sirfetch’d on a critical hit: 165-196 (97.6 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
Red Item 252+ Atk Life Orb Golisopod First Impression+ vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dondozo on a critical hit: 236-279 (91.8 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Golisopod is perhaps one of the best ways to bully randoms online, frequently picking off common-but-bad Pokemon such as Greninja, Umbreon, Mega Gyarados, and Gardevoir. Additionally, unlike the other common assassin, Absol Z, Golisopod comes with both a low investment cost (just needs 1 bar of the mega meter!), and comes with a wonderful defensive profile courtesy of its useful resistances and solid overall bulk. It can still certainly be a respectable presence on the field even when it cannot select First Impression, though it must be careful to run away from Meteor Beams and Thunderbolts aimed its way.

I want to give this post extra attention, partially because I feel bad drowning it out immediately talking about beating up children, mostly because Golisopod is the truth. You can slap a Silverpowder on this dude with a Sash Garchomp and your third can be imagination. Maybe not a mega since you're sucking up that with plus moves, but still!

I had some crap on my team like Special Life Orb Metagross (look the special aggron post inspired me to hit the Gen 4 special gross copium) and I still bodied people from the combo of Golisopod and Garchomp being outrageously good. Garchomp being on top for another meta is obviously no shock, but Golisopod is and they go great together. This duo carries so hard.

Most importantly, hearing that stupid little jolt noise followed by your big number immediately going up feels amazing. Absolutely pure hit of dopium. Give this thing a whirl.

 

[Vengeance417]

My end-of-2025 rankings for Season 4. This is somewhat ordered until B2, until I just said f it. There's way too many mons on this list, I'm not gonna list and order them all + there's some I either haven't seen or used.

I'll just talk about some of my highlights / notable mons:

The Monarchs

Armarouge is, without a doubt, the #1 mon in this meta, and the main representative of what PvP has become; sniper hell. It's a nightmare to account for this threat in the builder. It's the #1 Meteor Beam abuser, no questions asked. Its explosive coverage of Fire, Rock, Grass, and Psychic just hits so much so hard. Would-be Water, Rock, and Ground-type checks are shadow realm'd by +Solar Beam. It loves Life Orb, but it's strong enough without it. Expert Belt and Focus Sash are also great options on it, and I've even seen gimmicky Quick Claw sets that made me want to rip my hair out. One of the best offensive checks to Arma is...your own Arma, thanks to Meteor Beam. Genuinely oppressive mon.

Garchomp remains one of the most consistent options around, especially now with Armarouge ruling over this game. Garchomp's one of the few good offensive checks to Arma, resisting Meteor Beam and its Fire moves while staying neutral vs Solar Beam and Psychic/Psyshock. Ice-type Pokemon are in a decline thanks to Arma, and there's not many good Fairy-types besides Clefable (which I'll talk about later). Easily the most splashable teammate. If your team has holes, Garchomp will likely fill them.

Modern Warfare 2 Rust Quickscopes Only The Snipers

Porygon Z is insanity. The DLC introduced Tri Attack, and it's almost like it was made for this freak. +1 Life Orb +Tri Attack decimates anything not a Ghost-type or a sturdy resist. It even slices through Focus Sash Garchomp, eliminating the need for Ice Beam. STAB Hyper Beam is like using the BFG from Doom. Thunderbolt, Solar Beam, and the less-appealing Shadow Ball for Ghost-types are all options for the 4th slot. It's a bit frail and wants the Life Orb slot, but it commands respect.

Gholdengo was finished terrorizing SV OU, so now it had to stop by Lumiose to do the same. It's good as gold, with a great defensive typing, access to Nasty Plot + STAB Steel Beam, and a really fast movement speed. The EQ weakness is nullfied by how fast this thing is. Also has nice coverage in Thunderbolt. Make It Rain is a nice Overheat-like move, and while I'm not a big Shadow Ball believer, it's alright for opposing Ghold (they'll just surf away from it).

The tried and true Ampharos is still top-tier and the premier screener, and only got better with Meteor Beam. Charge and +1 Thunderbolt is stupid.

Mega Lucario Z is cracked. Its fast cast times make Steel Beam extremely scary, especially after a Nasty Plot. Its Z status also makes it the best Shadow Ball user in the game, which is great for dealing with Arma, Gholdengo, and the rare Chandelure. Focus Blast is crazy strong, while Aura Sphere is weaker but has a crazy-fast cooldown. While I think it's crazy, it being kinda weak to Arma and Chomp have it ranked in A2 for me as opposed to A1.

Clefable is the best Fairy right now. It got a massive glow-up thanks to Meteor Beam, giving it amazing anti-Fire coverage that also makes it stronger. Its "low" base 95 SpA is misleading thanks to its high BP moves in Meteor Beam, Solar Beam, and Moonblast. It's got coverage for days, too, with Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, and Fire Blast all being solid options. Life Orb is my favorite on it, but Expert Belt is also serviceable in case the LO slot is taken.

The Counter-Snipers

Upon discovering that +First Impression is a guaranteed critical hit, Golisopod has shot up in viability exponentially. It's easily the best priority move in the game that cripples many with one hit while holding a Life Orb. Porygon Z dies slightly more than half the time, and if not, after Life Orb recoil. It cuts through Ampharos's Reflect. It deals 69% minimum to Armarouge, leaving it weak to Aqua Jet. It one-shots Mega Absol Z. Any Bug-weak Pokemon are decimated. Genuinely one of the best to do it this season. It's not in S, however, because it needs Life Orb and it's weak to common moves, but don't let that stop you. Seriously, use and respect this beast.

Mega Absol Z is in contention for best Mega right now. While its moves are low base power, Mabzol circumvents that with attacking extremely fast. Phantom Force is extra quick, giving Mabzol a fast dodging tool that closes the distance to its target. Night Slash and Play Rough make it a speedy assassin, slicing through frail and weakened opponents. Its typing is also a nice upgrade, giving it good immunities to Porygon Z's normal moves and Mega Luc Z's Fighting STAB. I'd never imagine the Absolution would take on a new form.

Other Notable Goons

Kantonian Marowak was my biggest surprise this season. I initially thought Alolan Marowak would be the better of the two, but not only was I wrong, Kanto Wak is amazing in this meta. Its signature item, Thick Club, is a boon for teambuilding, not taking up the Life Orb or Focus Sash slot. Bonemerang is incredible, killing most through Focus Sash and is a nice sniping option in general. Its good physical bulk will let it eat nearly any one physical hit, but it has to be weary of Solar Beam which is everywhere right now. It also hates map scenery. Don't cast Bonemerang with objects to your right.

Similar to Kanto Wak, Sirfetch'd is also packing its own signature Leek, which, again, eases up teambuilding. The Giga Impact clone Meteor Assault finally has a use in a Pokemon game, decimating any poor fool that doesn't resist it, and thanks to the Leek, there's a high chance it'll crit. Sky Attack, Leaf Blade, and Night Slash are all moves with heightened crit chances, so combine that with Leek, they'll always crit no matter what.
Close enough, welcome back RBY Slash.

Snow Godzilla Baxcalibur is sick. It's an Ice-type that's not weak to Fire, giving it an entry vs Armarouge going for Heat Wave. Glaive Rush is a strong choo-choo move, cutting through multiple enemies meaning multikills are likely to happen, especially after an SD and as an Alpha. It's just in general another big BST beater. I like the combination of Dragon Rush + Glaive Rush or Icicle Spear. Drush is the perfect setup move for either of those attacks. Icicle Spear is like using a shotgun. It's a multihit move that shoots out all 5 of its spears at once, and that can cut through Sash Chomp. My favorite item on this guy is Focus Sash. It alleviates Glaive Rush's main drawback, where Bax will roar after using it, and Sash helps vs opposing Sash users. It's not any higher where it is due to Garchomp competition and Meteor Beam weakness.

I've written off Mega Garchomp in previous seasons due to base Chomp just being the best mon ever, but after discussing about it in the discord server, Season 4 is probably its best season yet. I've said before that Ice-type Pokemon are not that common anymore due to Armarouge, and with most Ice-type moves not being STAB, Mega Garchomp has the bulk to take most of them at least once, especially if it has Screens support. It moves faster than base chomp, which is more notable than ever now that Gholdengo and Mega Luc Z are zippin and zoomin everywhere. It's just a strong beatstick that has great bulk and solid typing, and it's taking advantage of this anti-ice-type meta. I still rate base chomp higher, but Mega Chomp is honestly pretty great.

My favorite starter ever; Swampert. It's almost perfect. Its Water/Ground typing allows it to be the glue for most comps, and both physical sets with Bulk Up and special sets with Work Up provide variety to its game. It's also abnormally fast, hopping around like Venusaur does. However, it can be a bit passive at times, and +Solar Beam is its worst enemy, especially against would-be-prey Armarouge. Both of these drag it down to A2 for me, but I really like it anyway.

Go figure that a Doubles-centric mechanic would be re-worked to function in a singles format. DozoGiri can admittedly be a bit gimmicky, but you'll have those lobbies that feed this combo kills, and I've had those happen as the pilot. If the opponents don't respect this raid boss, it'll farm the room. That being said, timing is key. You're trapped when DozoGiri is activated, and the boosts last for 45 seconds. You'll need to make every second count, and Dozo only having base 100 Attack, even with the Attack boost, can make it feel weak at times. Order Up + Curly Tatsugiri is practically a requirement.

The Fired

Annihilape had us scared going into Season 4. Rage Fist sounded like this scary as hell move that only got stronger with each hit...but then we saw its cast time as it grew stronger, and not only did we breathe sighs of relief, this thing just kinda...sucked. Rage Fist is simply way too slow to be effective, and is easily dodge-able. If you tried to use its other Ghost STABs, it's outdone by other Ghosts like Mega Absol Z and sometimes Gholdengo. I'd even rather use Golurk than this. Biggest disappointment so far.

Fraudagross is at its worst now, I'd feel. The meta is ruled by a Fire-type that has a decent Defense stat, Sash Garchomp is still everywhere, and Mega Garchomp is on the rise. What is this thing doing? Losing you games, that's what.

If I see anyone using regular Mega Lucario and Mega Absol, you're fired. Same with Mega Banette. Mega Absol Z is the better Mega Banette.

The Mega Raichus also great disappointed me, although of the two, I prefer X. They both hate dealing with Ground-types, even Ychu with Surf, and base Raichu is kinda lame, so your game plan is to not use too many plus moves to enable mid megas. I thought Ychu would be decent considering its SpA is higher than Light Ball Pikachu's, but turns out, just being at that power level right off the bat is way better. Pikachu stays winning. Xchu on the other hand is not too terrible. Volt Tackle boosting its Attack is neat, but unlike Meteor Beam, the boost comes after the attack, not before, so even with Charge, you'll miss some KOs.

The Real King

I'm kidding.



...or am I?

​

Happy New Year, everyone. It's been fun being a part of this community. Here's to 2026 :)

​

 

[ThatOneApple]

New Season turned out to be a lot more fun than I thought itd be, anyways heres a tier list.

S

Definitely the best just off of its broken coverage and solid defensive profile. Meteor beam + Fire and Grass coverage will always hit something on the field super effectively so you can pretty comfortable just blast something to pieces. Really not much else to say this guys just bonkers.


Chomps back, best answer to arma while also just being chomp doing chomp stuff. Lack of a broken fairy means it can run a fourth that isnt poison jab which is nice as it either allows you to double up on dragon moves or run a better coverage option like Stone Edge.

S-

Probably the best realization we've had as its fimp is the best answer to all the snipers in the meta. If fimp+ doesnt nuke them, the follow up pretty much always finishes them off. Also has a solid defensive profile for Garchomp, MegalucZ, and Marowak; can nuke MabsolZ and a lot of Screeners with autocrit fimp+, and in general is almost always good to have around.


Its ampharos, it does ampharos things. They also gave it meteor beam so it can opt for more offensive sets which is fun. Not much else to add.


Broken sniper number 2. Tri Attack is stupid broken and Hyper beam obliterates everything, Honestly the only reason this isnt a bit higher is because some of the adaptations for arma have negatively impacted it even more than arma, especially pod who just effortlessly swats you aside with Fimp+. Regardless, its insane neutral coverage is nice.

A+

(Z)
Similar to Golisopod, this mon does great into a lot of snipers with its nuclear firepower, insane movement speed, and nonexistent windups. Stabs + Prough or CC can cleanly smash pretty much the entire metagame with the main factors holding it back being its frailty and the fact that it is a Z Mega meaning it both requires the mega bar and eats through it very quickly. Still, it demands a ton of respect and will claim a bunch of points if it isnt given it.


He plots nasties and fires a big fuckass laser while being impossible to catch, what else do you need? Oh also the best defensive check to PoryZ which is a nice bonus. Reeeaaaalllllyy wishes it wasnt fire weak in arma society tho.

:Skarmory-Mega:
It does mega skarm things, now with Sky Attack!


Regular chomp just with some more resource dedication. With those resources however, it becomes a raid boss what can be a terror to everything on the field, especially with screens up. Other than that, even without mega evolving you still get to use a garchomp so thats cool.

A

Bonemerang is a silly move

:Sirfetch'd:
We were using crit sets in other seasons for a reason, what did you think captain autocrit was gonna do?


I already made a post on this, clef silly

(Z)
Sniper that fires instant kamehamehas, not much else needed.

Idrc to type much about the other mons. Most of them are either incredibly goofy with specific support or just fulfill certain niches that are nice for some of the nuttier guys. Overall i enjoyed this season more than a thought i would, and heres hoping for a goofier 2026!

 

[TheDarknessMadeFlesh]

Oh my god there's so much strategy. I just got the dlc tonight. Is there a smogon za disc???

 

[Jibaku]

I guess if everyone else is doing it.

Some Top Meta Stuff

I firmly believe that Garchomp is the best Pokemon in this meta and is the most important piece that holds everything together. Its typing is incredibly effective, both offensively and defensively, ensuring that the unhinged sniper Pokemons don't get to have too much fun. I think we all know what Chomp does so I'm not going to go too deeply here. It does now have to contend with Sash-bypassing mechanisms such as Icicle Spear Baxcalibur, Tri Attack Porygon-Z, and random Triple Axel users, but these aren't enough to stop its carnage.

These two Pokemon are the reasons why Garchomp is an essential defensive backbone on a lot of teams. Glimmora is also another reason why Chomper is everywhere, but I'm going to talk about these two since they're top tier.

In the posts above me, Armarouge has been discussed at length about its ridiculous damage and coverage, as well as the constraints it forces upon teambuilding - these are all very true (literally go find a better good Arma check than Garchomp). Instead, I'm going to talk about why Armarouge is a step below Garchomp in viability - its frailty. Armarouge may have respectable bulk and good resistances, but it also finds itself having weaknesses to, quite literally, EVERY common Pokemon. Although Arma is great at outtrading many of these Pokemon, it does not do so convincingly. As such, a lightly chipped Armarouge is potential prey for just about anything, further hampered by its relatively long move animations (unless you're one of those people who run Quick Claw on it). You need to position it well and it should generally avoid directly switching into things.

Ampharos remains THE reason you want a Ground-type on your teams, since Charged Thunderbolts are frightening and Ampharos can now make that even scarier thanks to its newfound access to Meteor Beam. Offensive Amph typically drops Light Screen to slot in Meteor Beam. Otherwise, it's still the best support/sniper hybrid in the tier and helps enable Megas and Plus-hungry Pokemon.

Tri Attack is a little unhinged. Hyper Beam deletes anything that isn't a Ghost. It's fragile and has no resistances so it's a little difficult to use at times and can be reliant on Screens to succeed. Needs to steer clear away from The Pod. PZ is the only common sniper to not fear Garchomp (sorry Glaceon/Vaporeon, this isn't your season anymore).

I love this Pokemon so much. It's got a wonderful typing and good overall defensive stats, further augmented by its insane movement speed that lets it easily dodge Earthquakes. Then it strikes back with a STAB +1 Steel Beam coming off a 133 base Special Attack. Ghold does a great job disengaging and picking fights at its own whims. Its main weaknesses are its punishing/unreliable STAB options and Heat Wave, the latter of which isn't ideal in an Armarouge meta (although Gholdengo can certainly make Arma think twice).

I'll be honest - I think the Mega Evolution system is slightly underpowered in PvP, especially in this highly aggressive format where many Pokemon want their Plus moves to execute targets ASAP. As such, I've placed the most prominent Megas in A instead of anything higher. Skarm does Skarm things and can now Sky Attack to further increase its burst damage, but definitely does not appreciate the sniper-heavy meta. Mega Garchomp is faster than regular Garchomp and has a noticeable increase in power too, but it demands support as it has no Focus Sash.

Absol Z is quite possibly the most frightening cleaner in the entire game. Its Dark/Ghost typing not only provides Absol with amazing neutral coverage, it also comes packed with 3 immunities and virtually no weaknesses to help Absol get around its frailty. Phantom Force being an near on-demand i-frame option makes this Pokemon incredibly slippery and challenging to burst down. That said, it comes with tremendously heavy costs - it is a Mega, it has a terrible base form, and the Z-mega mechanic rapidly burns down your gauge. Realistically, Absol does not get to see play more than twice per match, but that's usually more than enough for it to leave a trail of destruction in its wake. Absol's biggest weakness is that Golisopod can effortlessly delete it with First Impression+ as long as it doesn't whiff into Phantom Force's dodge, so it REALLY needs to play cautiously if one shows up.

Bax was projected as a top meta Pokemon, and it kindof is but has its fair share of struggles. Its Ice typing is a glaring defensive liability, making it a prime target for Meteor Beams and Steel Beams - and these moves are really strong to begin with so they're not just there to target Bax. It doesn't help that its movement speed feels rather slow, and unlike Garchomp, its Mega doesn't help with that at all. Nonetheless, it is a massive stat stick and it has one of the best ways to bypass Garchomp's Focus Sash thanks to Icicle Spear. Its Ice neutrality is especially useful when fighting Pokemon such as Porygon2, Swampert, and Glaceon.

The Washed Up Corner

If I'm being honest, I don't know what niche Gyarados fulfills in this metagame now that Golisopod exists and offers a similar defensive profile while exerting much, MUCH more pressure due to First Impression (and optionally, Swords Dance). Gyarados does mediocre damage all around thanks to its lack of boosting option and mid-damage moves, while being an immediate magnet to the numerous Thunderbolts and Meteor Beams the moment it steps on the field. Mega Gyarados is slightly better since the Dark-typing makes it kindof unique and it does appreciate the permanent Plus-move feature, but it now gets farmed by Golisopod and random Fighting types.

Glaceon was a Season 1 star and continued to be relevant up until this season, but I now find that it struggles to keep up. There are stronger sniper options around, and Glaceon fares pretty poorly into all of them. Baxcalibur now exists as a Dragon-type option that isn't easily removable by Ice, and its own Ice-type damage gives Glaceon some competition. Glaceon's relatively small Freeze Dry AoE is difficult to land on competent opponents, and Water-types have largely vanished outside of Pod/Dozo/Pert. Hell, even Aurorus gives Glaceon competition, now that it has access to the incredibly broken Meteor Beam.

Vaporeon has to contend with stronger sniper options, and more impactful Water-type competitors such as Golisopod, Dondozo, and Swampert. Like Glaceon, it does not enjoy the introduction of Baxcalibur, who walls it. Vaporeon fared better when its opponents were Solar Beam-less Chandelure and Metagross, but now it's dealing with Solar Beam Armarouge and NP TBolt Gholdengo.

Just use Armarouge. Chandelure still has a niche thanks to its Ghost typing, which makes it immune to Normal and grants it a double resistance to Bug, and its sniping capabilities set it apart from Ceruledge. But Chand is still tough to justify simply due to how deadly Armarouge is.

Literally just use Gholdengo oh my god. Gholdy is a far less costly option (Metagross desperately needs to Mega to shed its terrible movement speed and gain kill pressure with the increased weight) and is incredibly maneuverable. You can try to do funny things with Metagross's new access to Meteor Beam, but don't expect it to do much lol.

 

[Vengeance417]

Oh my god there's so much strategy. I just got the dlc tonight. Is there a smogon za disc???

https://discord.gg/kMx3zbWp83

 

[TheMantyke]

https://bsky.app/profile/serebii.bsky.social%2Fpost%2F3mbdmfe2b6k2h

Mythics and lesser legendaries coming up next!

 

[Vengeance417]

 

[PyProd]

No team post this season because I've just been using comps that have been discussed in the discord (and Porygon2 ZAbsol which I don't feel like writing about in-depth). So tier list time. I feel quite confident in it, though the order kind of gets iffy from B- onwards.

Yeah, these two feel like they're in a league of their own in this meta. Armarouge is ranked second but I want to talk about it first. Its wide array of coverage makes it very scary in builder so it WILL dictate choices in the builder that may not even work in practice in a battle royale format. This thing's sheer sniping potential and coverage between Meteor Beam, Heat Wave, Solar Beam and Psychic is unparalleled, and it packs actually solid bulk to boot, tanking Ground-type coverage moves from Pokémon like Skarmory-Mega which allows you to trade. This thing is the main reason why stuff like Golisopod and ZAbsol are so good just for being consistent against it. This is just sheer meta-defining prowess at its finest. Don't run Armor Cannon on that because it lowers the bulk that you need to be consistent.

Garchomp mixes utility with raw power by being an Electric immunity, an Armarouge check, and generally a catchall blanket check all in one. I have found a well-piloted Garchomp can win against pretty much anything thanks to Focus Sash's insurance, Dragon Rush iframes, its stab Earthquake which completes Dragon moves nicely, and its quite flexible fourth slot! While Armarouge is consistent for its wide variety of coverage, Garchomp is consistent because it's the best trading mon in the format. It has also dictated its fair share of changes, most notably with Tri Attack Porygon-Z (and generally multi-hit moves) trending up because of it.

Ampharos has just still been an awfully consistent Pokémon, so consistent in fact that it will actively feel uncomfortable not to run a Thunderbolt deterrent on your team (i.e. often Garchomp or your own Ampharos, or other Grounds or Dragons or very bulky stuff if not those two for some reason). It also brings unparalleled support in Screens and Plus battery charging that lets this mon carry the viability of many Megas and Plus move snipers (not saying those are not viable on their own but Amphy helps tremendously). Charge Thunderbolt is always something to be feared and you get Meteor Beam too but I have not been using that as much because you like having both Screens into the Sniper + Diver meta.

Porygon-Z is I think the second best sniper thanks to its nuclear moves. I like to run more Defense on it for the Golisopod matchup but full HP is perfectly serviceable since First Impression+ is a roll, the takeaway being this thing is deceptively bulky for its role though not enough that it becomes overbearing as is the case with Armarouge imo. You're also a coverage machine with access to Thunderbolt, Solar Beam, Psychic or even Shadow Ball to fit alongside Tri Attack (which is quasi-mandatory) and Hyper Beam (its strongest move, which I have been dropping because the stun has been game losing to me, may be a skill issue though), though you don't even need that much since Tri Attack + Hyper Beam + coverage will be serviceable into anything that's not a Ghost-type. Don't use Ice Beam, Tri Attack beats Garchomp better.

Speaking of which, I have ranked Gholdengo as third in A+ for its ability to engage and disengage coupled with very serviceable staying power. That thing is FAST, and that makes all the difference: you outrun moves for days and win exchanges you should have no business doing. But because it runs so fast does not mean it's a coward. Nasty Plot-boosted Steel Beams pack a serious punch that will farm any non-resistance, while Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball have been serviceable into Steel-resists. Also one of the only snipers that resist Golisopod which is quite relevant imo. This mon is lowkey the reason why I like having Arma around.

These two fulfill very similar roles that are a boon into this sniper-heavy meta, that of being fast-attacking divers with favorable matchups into most big threats of the meta. I won't say all that's been said about First Impression+ Golisopod except that you should try it at least once in your lives, it's lots of fun to just be able to delete Armarouge, Porygon-Z and ZAbsols while still matching up favorably into Garchomp and bypassing Screens. Speaking of which, I have been liking Aqua Jet for quick casts improving consistency against Armarouge. It is however not higher for easily being sniped by stray Meteor Beams and Thunderbolts, and for taking up the coveted Life Orb slot which has you fall back on Expert Belt or resist berries for your snipers. This is my favorite mon this season.

Absol-Z I am still testing as we speak as I have had a hard time figuring out how to play this mon (but I have been greatly improving with it after playing last year). You have great matchups into most viable mons, fast iframes and serviceable coverage in Play Rough for those pesky Dragons. Being a Mega means you have to commit resources and be wary not to Plus Move too much in a Plus Move heavy meta where you ideally want to be using those, and being a Z-Mega means your gauge runs out faster. You're also an Absol so you're not that bulky, though you WILL eat a move in a pinch thanks to your great typing and iframes. This mandating very good resource management makes it a bit hard to take up for the uninitiated (trust me) but when it pops off, that generally screams disaster for your opponents. I've been liking pairing it with Porygon2 as an absurdly bulky battery that gets people off of you for Absol to SD up relatively unthreatened.

Yeah, very crowded A-. It's generally all the other great Pokémon that are very viable in this meta: either other Meteor Beam users (Clefable and Glimmora leveraging interesting resistances and great coverage though Glimmora definitely treads the line between A- and B+ for its glaring Ground-type weakness), great brawlers (Luc-Z leveraging fast moves, Marowak, Sirfetch'd and Baxcalibur being absurdly strong, though all with clear weaknesses), or Screen Megas (though Skarm has definitely seen better days, not ohkoing Armarouge from full is rough. I've also put the recent discovery of Garchomp-Mega as a Screens mon that resists common sniping moves in here, awaiting further testing but A- feels right for a Mega with Plus Gauge commitment).

That's where the viable per-se mons end imo. They are generally big annoyances that you have to respect but are still less viable than A- mons, though they can and WILL get stuff done. Porygon2 and Golisopod-Mega's thing is being fatasses that can stay on the terrain for pretty long, though the former lacks in power output and the latter's weakness to Fire and comparison with Life Orb Golisopod hurt. Speaking of which, Mega Bax, though solid and pretty strong, also suffers from its comparison with Focus Sash Baxcalibur which can eat crucial Steel Beams or hits while roaring after using Glaive Rush. Swampert and Milotic are our other two relevant Waters with Pert being a great Electric-immune glue (but suffering from comparison with Garchomp in that role and also from Solar Beam's presence) and Milotic being suprisingly bulky and strong with Calm Mind (but suffering from Thunderbolt and Solar Beam's omnipresence). For what it's worth, special Swampert feels better than Bulk Up. Last, I have slotted the two Rotom forms that remove your Ground weakness as alternatives to Ampharos that can get Screens up more easily against Garchomp. The thing is though that Shuca Ampharos has no problem doing so and they feel awkward to use (with Rotom-Fan being a Ground-immunity with no way of hitting Grounds and Rotom-Mow's Grass move being slow as fuck), so they suffer in comparison to Ampharos. I have used Nasty Plot Mowtom early this season (NP Tbolt Leaf Storm Reflect) and it felt okayish but idt it holds up as well with the Armarouge and Golisopod uptick so this is definitely a Screener now.

Generally, any combination of Electric-check + sniper + diver from these ranks has felt quite consistent to me, so even with all the new options, building feels pretty straightforward as long as you make sure to cover most Pokémon on this list. Though, Game Freak, we see you for making most viable Pokémon this season DLC mons. I know people who have chosen not to buy the DLC and quit playing competitive this season despite doing it before, which is quite sad. But also I understand that it's a bit tedious to have to trade mons to get the most viable choices and moves so can't shame them.

 

[Ranga226]

Season 4 will be upon us and the word is all sub legendaries and mythicals will be legal
Magearna encroaches

 

[BlazingBarrager]

IT'S TIME...

 

[Vengeance417]

IT'S TIME...

For Darkrai’s premature burial.

 

[PyProd]

Made a silly montage on season 5

 

[Mugenman88]

So, with S5 around the corner, lets talk about some new Steel types.



Magearna @ Occa Berry/Shuca Berry/Life Orb/Magearnite
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Steel Beam
- Fleur Cannon
- Focus Blast/Shadow Ball/whatever
- Calm Mind

Say hello to your new sniper overlord! With huge bulk, great typing, and multiple incredible beam moves, Magearna is quite well poised to be the one of the best snipers in the format. The 3rd move is general coverage for what you want to deal with the most, Focus Blast is for Heatran and Melmetal. Shadow Ball is for Gholdengo or Armarogue which otherwise can scare you out since they both resist all your moves + Focus Blast, but if your team has the mons to cover it you can pretty much run any special move you want in the third slot like Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, or Solar Beam. The only real weakness Magearna has is that its movespeed is quite slow in base form, so dodging other moves might be difficult, but mega Magearna's movespeed is good so you can use that if you want.




Heatran @ Shuca Berry/Chople Berry/Life Orb/Heatranite
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Steel Beam
- Magma Storm
- Solar Beam/Earth Power
- Earth Power/Ancient Power

Heatran's great typing and bulk will make it another incredibly popular sniper AND counter-sniper pick, despite the gnarly ground weakness. Special moves tend to just bounce right off you, especially if you're running Heatranite, so it's really hard to knock it out in one shot, while Magma Storm chunks and chips even after landing, making even Focus Sash useless against it. Ancient Power is more of a niche pick but the +1 to all stats will make you terrifying to deal with, especially since +Ancient Power has a 60% chance to trigger the omniboost. Like Magearna, Heatran is pretty slow so getting out of the way of EQs can be hard, and your Mega form doesn't improve that, so Shuca seems to be the best item in my opinion at least. It won't save you from a STAB +1 EQ from Garchomp but you should still at least be able to take any non-STAB one.




Melmetal @ Assault Vest
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch

Melmetal shows its mettle as a new Brawler that doesn't afraid of anything! DIB in this game is a terrifying move with massive AoE and a nasty flinch rate meaning you will very often win 1v1s, even against mons that in theory could beat you. Despite its slow speed, Melmetal is so bulky with AV you can often tank whatever move is thrown your way and just obliterate the attacking mon afterwards. A bit unfortunate that you don't have a way to boost your attack but again, with your sheer bulk you'll likely tank whatever the first move on you is giving you time to land the follow-up blow, especially since the punches come out so fast in this game. EVs maximize your special bulk while still allowing you to always live +1 Garchomp +Earthquake.

Overall you REALLY need to account for this Steel trifecta when building a team for this season. Garchomp overall does quite well into them but Magearna can threaten with Fleur Cannon and Mel with Ice Punch, so pick your battles wisely. Or just use Sash lmao.

 

[Ranga226]

Also terrakion is going to be horrifying because not much lives a +1 headsmash and if you try to kill it it can just use protect and then your death is assured,
Best way to deal with it is to just play chicken with it or use a sash to win a trade with it it seems.
or snipe it from far away but that's only consistent on like lake, and it could still protect your sniping tool and then run you down.

 

[Vengeance417]

Melmetal @ Assault Vest
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch

Melmetal shows its mettle as a new Brawler that doesn't afraid of anything! DIB in this game is a terrifying move with massive AoE and a nasty flinch rate meaning you will very often win 1v1s, even against mons that in theory could beat you. Despite its slow speed, Melmetal is so bulky with AV you can often tank whatever move is thrown your way and just obliterate the attacking mon afterwards. A bit unfortunate that you don't have a way to boost your attack but again, with your sheer bulk you'll likely tank whatever the first move on you is giving you time to land the follow-up blow, especially since the punches come out so fast in this game. EVs maximize your special bulk while still allowing you to always live +1 Garchomp +Earthquake.

Something I've been considering as an option is Heavy Slam. You lose coverage vs Water-types if you drop Thunder Punch, for example, but Heavy Slam gives Melmetal not only a dodging move, but a way to close the distance to its targets. This is beneficial due to its slow movespeed. Melmetal is also extremely heavy, so it'll be at max power against most foes. It's worth noting that Heavy Slam into DIB can still kill Garchomp considering it's the same effective BP as DIB:

252+ Atk Melmetal Heavy Slam+ (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 106-126 (49.3 - 58.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Melmetal Double Iron Bash+ (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 106-126 (49.3 - 58.6%) -- 99.9% chance to 2HKO

Heavy Slam into Ice Punch is also quite devastating to Chomp thanks to your gap-closing option.

 

[a blue banana]

https://pokepast.es/32987a087c5f174f

Season 4 team used to climb up to rank A tonight in 18 first-place matches, slight variation of Apple's team by focusing on maximum coverage/sniping potency with Armarouge and the power of Life Orb First Impression+. EV spreads for Garchomp and Armarouge can be simplified to 252/252/4.

Potential of these Pokemon has been discussed thoroughly, not much else to say other than this team is stupidly effective.

 

[BlazingBarrager]

https://pokepast.es/32987a087c5f174f

Season 4 team used to climb up to rank A tonight in 18 first-place matches, slight variation of Apple's team by focusing on maximum coverage/sniping potency with Armarouge and the power of Life Orb First Impression+. EV spreads for Garchomp and Armarouge can be simplified to 252/252/4.

Potential of these Pokemon has been discussed thoroughly, not much else to say other than this team is stupidly effective.

What do the EV spreads on Chomp and Armarogue do?

 

[chroma_2903]

oh, hey! good to see you again. didn't see you there at first, hah. pretty engrossed in this "z-a battle club" thing right now.

alright so i've been playing za ranked since day one and i'd say i'm pretty solid at it. i haven't taken the liberty of keeping a w/l because i am a lazy bum, but i win the majority of my matches (i think) and overall enjoy it. with The Evil Ass Rock Deer That Kills You looming on the horizon and my notable absence from this thread despite my investment in the game, i figured i'd get around to making something of a tier list post here to share my thoughts on s4.

lotta mons on this list huh. i'm really not feeling like i want to type out explanations for every single one cause a lot of other people have already explained why, for example, armarouge is so relavent and whatnot, but there are a couple things i want to touch on

-i have this gut feeling kleavor is going to see a rise at some point in a later season, but right now it's pretty ok. stone axe is effectively a barrier for everything weak to rock, lunge is alright, and it does pick up knockouts on quite a few relavent mons like bax and chandy and significantly threatening golisopod. speaking of...

-golisopod is far better than anyone gives it credit for right now. this is the one mon i have had my eyes on since before dlc, and that was BEFORE players realized stuff like first impression crits. i have used almost exclusively golisopod comps this season and every match it puts in so, so much work. it kills everything and pressures everything it doesn't kill. a well timed leech life gives you actual recovery that offsets life orb and can keep you alive, not to mention it is one of the best abusers of the pickup items AND mega power pickups. more multipliers = more kills, and plus moves = more multipliers. did i mention it kills everything. even right now, it's extremely good, and the only thing keeping it in check is the extreme sniper meta with meteor beam and tbolt being everywhere. if that ever cools down, you better believe this fucker is going to rise even higher

-delibird will have a niche somewhere someday it's the only ground immune freeze dry mon it has a small hitbox it can pick up some kills sometimes please just trust me bro

-mega gren is tbolt and solar beam+ fodder. it also does not kill very many things. i see it on ladder constantly. i would tell people to stop using it but it directly translates to more wins for me so, uh, keep using mega gren?

-i wanted to put swampert in fraud corner for similar reasons but i have grudgingly realized that it has a niche, gets kills, and needs to be dealt with when it comes onto the field. however this usually amounts to "click solar beam+" so it's not too difficult to work around. maybe when it gets its mega back that'll change but i'm not sure.

-glimmet/glimmora double dipping meteor beam spam teams are really funny. did you know that glimmet has the second strongest meteor beam in the game behind glimmora? someone in the sbc discord likened it to "special trapinch" which is a pretty apt comparison. it actually puts in work too as a screens setter. hashtag glimmet gaming

should be it for now. if i think of any other points i want to make here i'll edit this post and include them. hope you all have a lovely day, and may the Evil Ass Rock Deer That Kills You show some degree of mercy on all our poor poor souls in the near future

(edit one: whoops gholdengo is a tier too low! butterfingers)

 

[BlazingBarrager]

oh, hey! good to see you again. didn't see you there at first, hah. pretty engrossed in this "z-a battle club" thing right now.

alright so i've been playing za ranked since day one and i'd say i'm pretty solid at it. i haven't taken the liberty of keeping a w/l because i am a lazy bum, but i win the majority of my matches (i think) and overall enjoy it. with The Evil Ass Rock Deer That Kills You looming on the horizon and my notable absence from this thread despite my investment in the game, i figured i'd get around to making something of a tier list post here to share my thoughts on s4.

View attachment 798481
lotta mons on this list huh. i'm really not feeling like i want to type out explanations for every single one cause a lot of other people have already explained why, for example, armarouge is so relavent and whatnot, but there are a couple things i want to touch on

-i have this gut feeling kleavor is going to see a rise at some point in a later season, but right now it's pretty ok. stone axe is effectively a barrier for everything weak to rock, lunge is alright, and it does pick up knockouts on quite a few relavent mons like bax and chandy and significantly threatening golisopod. speaking of...

-golisopod is far better than anyone gives it credit for right now. this is the one mon i have had my eyes on since before dlc, and that was BEFORE players realized stuff like first impression crits. i have used almost exclusively golisopod comps this season and every match it puts in so, so much work. it kills everything and pressures everything it doesn't kill. a well timed leech life gives you actual recovery that offsets life orb and can keep you alive, not to mention it is one of the best abusers of the pickup items AND mega power pickups. more multipliers = more kills, and plus moves = more multipliers. did i mention it kills everything. even right now, it's extremely good, and the only thing keeping it in check is the extreme sniper meta with meteor beam and tbolt being everywhere. if that ever cools down, you better believe this fucker is going to rise even higher

-delibird will have a niche somewhere someday it's the only ground immune freeze dry mon it has a small hitbox it can pick up some kills sometimes please just trust me bro

-mega gren is tbolt and solar beam+ fodder. it also does not kill very many things. i see it on ladder constantly. i would tell people to stop using it but it directly translates to more wins for me so, uh, keep using mega gren?

-i wanted to put swampert in fraud corner for similar reasons but i have grudgingly realized that it has a niche, gets kills, and needs to be dealt with when it comes onto the field. however this usually amounts to "click solar beam+" so it's not too difficult to work around. maybe when it gets its mega back that'll change but i'm not sure.

-glimmet/glimmora double dipping meteor beam spam teams are really funny. did you know that glimmet has the second strongest meteor beam in the game behind glimmora? someone in the sbc discord likened it to "special trapinch" which is a pretty apt comparison. it actually puts in work too as a screens setter. hashtag glimmet gaming

should be it for now. if i think of any other points i want to make here i'll edit this post and include them. hope you all have a lovely day, and may the Evil Ass Rock Deer That Kills You show some degree of mercy on all our poor poor souls in the near future

(edit one: whoops gholdengo is a tier too low! butterfingers

>Gardevoir is in fraud corner while Sylveon is niche
...wha?

 

[chroma_2903]

so i don't actually remember why i had sylveon in as a niche (maybe it was hitbox but most likely i was tired) but i'll make up a reason to justify it

sylveon's very important niche over gardevoir is that it looks a lot less threatening than gardevoir does

 

[TheMantyke]

-glimmet/glimmora double dipping meteor beam spam teams are really funny. did you know that glimmet has the second strongest meteor beam in the game behind glimmora? someone in the sbc discord likened it to "special trapinch" which is a pretty apt comparison.

Just piggy backing off of this because I want to take the time to post the list of the most powerful (non mega) meteor beams in the game. It's hilarious what a weight this move puts on a Pokemon's viability. Every rock-type with this move and a pulse has its ears pricked up.

 

[PyProd]

Speaking of Meteor Beam (again) and generally beam moves, now feels like the right time.

I made another edit, guys. I just can't stop! This format is so fun and makes for so many fun clips!

Hope this lives on as a memento of our legendary-less beam-heavy meta.

 

[Vengeance417]

It has sensed your presence and will arrive in just a few more days.

Can we talk about why Terrak just looks like some dude in this image?

 

[a blue banana]

What do the EV spreads on Chomp and Armarogue do?

Based on this calculator, the spreads supposedly optimize the Pokémon’s overall bulk, with no bias towards either defense stat. I don’t think this is justifiable enough to deviate from the basic 252/4 investment, though.