Last time I checked wellspring learns swords dance and play roughB+ -> A-
Hydrapple completely walls wellspring. And kills fat teams
Is it a tera hog? Yes. Is it very similar as a nasty plot regenerator anti-wellspring to tornt-t? Absolutely. But against fat teams it destroys everything and completely Walling wellspring is enough in my opinion. I'll answer any questions
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Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread - (update on post #1193))
- Thread starter Shaymin Sky
- Start date
What are the thoughts of the community on suspecting 
and 
?
I honestly think that is broken because it has always a method of dealing with it's checks that aren't 
, and 
are destroyed by Play Rough, 
gets destroyed by Knock Off, 
only switches once, 
without Foul Play gets farmed by Sub Tera Water SD, 
switches only to get obliterated by Play Rough and 
dies to a +2 Power Whip because of the Grassy Terrain it generates itself.
is less broken that and you could make the argument that isn't broken, but i think that a suspect test is worth considering because of how many sets this thing can have
does big fat nothing against Sub-Protect sets and it struggles to switch into a Specs Draco or a physical set, without mentioning that the snow that invokes with Chilly Reception makes even tougher to take down because of its Defense boost to Ice types. 
switches into physical DD but it gets absolutely obliterated by Freeze-Dry by special or mixed sets. The best answers are 
and 
. has dropped to UU and it's quite exploitable because of how it needs to block into BP to beat . can be farmed by Sub-Protect sets because of how much Stone Edge misses, and defensive sets don't even carry a rock-type move.
and ?I honestly think that
is broken because it has always a method of dealing with it's checks that aren't , and are destroyed by Play Rough, gets destroyed by Knock Off, only switches once, without Foul Play gets farmed by Sub Tera Water SD, switches only to get obliterated by Play Rough and dies to a +2 Power Whip because of the Grassy Terrain it generates itself. is less broken that and you could make the argument that isn't broken, but i think that a suspect test is worth considering because of how many sets this thing can have does big fat nothing against Sub-Protect sets and it struggles to switch into a Specs Draco or a physical set, without mentioning that the snow that invokes with Chilly Reception makes even tougher to take down because of its Defense boost to Ice types. switches into physical DD but it gets absolutely obliterated by Freeze-Dry by special or mixed sets. The best answers are and . has dropped to UU and it's quite exploitable because of how it needs to block into BP to beat . can be farmed by Sub-Protect sets because of how much Stone Edge misses, and defensive sets don't even carry a rock-type move.
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Enough time has passed
Time for spicy(?) takes
B+ -> B
I’ve tried to be positive with this mon and have given it a spin several times, but it is just so clunky to use in a lot of match ups. Its very defensively awkward where there are SOME match ups it’s quite good into, but it’s also a Dark type that doesn’t really check Dragapult or Gholdengo comfortably by itself when the former clicks U-Turn or Dragon Darts (or wisp!) and the latter is capable of just blowing up most Ttar with +2 MiRs and FBs. This forces teams to have to fit extra back up for these mons which isn’t desirable in a tier with so many powerful and demanding threats. It’s still possible to do this and support Ttar but the teams that can are limited. Its lack of longevity is exposed through how easily it’s worn down by even lighter hits alongside hazards and its poor speed makes it very easy to exploit or just blow back. And with how weakness laden its typing naturally is, it also doesn’t really check that much in practice. Yes CB is threatening when it predicts well but with a Pokémon that’s so vulnerable if you click the wrong move, that’s not great. And yes sand+knock is neat for helping against more resilient mons that tend to blanket check stuff, it’s not enough alone to keep this in B+ when its flaws are what they are.
A -> A+
This one is maybe a little weird, but I feel it’s right on the cusp at least of A+. Very nice source of useful role compression and it’s malleable in how it’s built to a team’s needs, from its moves and Tera right down to EVs. It’s proven to have the staying power and the power to do well in the meta despite some earlier doubts, and its great ability to make progress in almost any match up because of knock off is just wonderful for teams.
Time for spicy(?) takes
B+ -> BI’ve tried to be positive with this mon and have given it a spin several times, but it is just so clunky to use in a lot of match ups. Its very defensively awkward where there are SOME match ups it’s quite good into, but it’s also a Dark type that doesn’t really check Dragapult or Gholdengo comfortably by itself when the former clicks U-Turn or Dragon Darts (or wisp!) and the latter is capable of just blowing up most Ttar with +2 MiRs and FBs. This forces teams to have to fit extra back up for these mons which isn’t desirable in a tier with so many powerful and demanding threats. It’s still possible to do this and support Ttar but the teams that can are limited. Its lack of longevity is exposed through how easily it’s worn down by even lighter hits alongside hazards and its poor speed makes it very easy to exploit or just blow back. And with how weakness laden its typing naturally is, it also doesn’t really check that much in practice. Yes CB is threatening when it predicts well but with a Pokémon that’s so vulnerable if you click the wrong move, that’s not great. And yes sand+knock is neat for helping against more resilient mons that tend to blanket check stuff, it’s not enough alone to keep this in B+ when its flaws are what they are.
A -> A+This one is maybe a little weird, but I feel it’s right on the cusp at least of A+. Very nice source of useful role compression and it’s malleable in how it’s built to a team’s needs, from its moves and Tera right down to EVs. It’s proven to have the staying power and the power to do well in the meta despite some earlier doubts, and its great ability to make progress in almost any match up because of knock off is just wonderful for teams.
New year, new noms.
A -> A+
A+ is pretty barren rn, so these are the main mons I think should rise.
Gking is gking, its an incredibly glue mon due to its ability to soft check so much in the tier while also pivoting and applying pressure, whether that be from status or from its litany of coverage moves. From its stabs, to ice beam and flamethrower, to even surf to beat heatran, its able to customise its moveset to an insane degree. Yes some mons abuse it, but it can at worst, become a pivot regen bot, which is not the worst thing in the world.
Screens are good, and pult is absolutely amazing into screens due to infiltrator bypassing them. But even in general, it feels like pult is just super good due to its fast speed and ability to utilise any set it wants. From status pivot, to specs, to band, to screens, just anything it can really do, and while they aren't always the standout mon on the team, it always pulls its weight. Checking stuff like zama and woger is just the icing on the cake.
I think if you want a successful offense team, then lando is a must have for your team. While taunt sets are very good, I think some experimentation truly pushes lando into the A+ rank. Smack down I've been using a decent amount which turns the metal birds, the status birds, and even potentially dnite from pokemon that can usually take it on into mere targets that have to run away from it. But other options like SD, scarf, rock tomb are also viable options that really diversify its gameplan and make it much more annoying to deal with. But the bread and butter of "get up rocks, check a physical attacker or two, then pivot" is frankly good as ever.
B -> B+
Maybe a bit of a personal pick, but I think volcanion is amazing in this meta. Firstly, it stuffs any and all molas, only av can even pray to beat it and they get heavily chipped between fire spin, and potentially taunt and/or sludge bomb poison. Its also a decent waterpon check with sludge bomb, as while it doesn't appreciate knock off, it can usually take one or two grass moves and ofc switch into ivy cudgel. It can also check stuff such as Gambit, Scor, Cinder, Pult, Hatt, i-val, Molt, Gking, Clefable, Primarina, Hamu, Moth, Scizor etc. It can also be decently flexible in its slots, both item wise and moveslot wise. Boots are good, shuca can trade exceedingly well, lefties gives it longevity, custap can be amazing into offense. Fire Spin can trap shit, with taunt helping that as well, sub can scout switches incredibly easily, Flame Charge is okay to make it faster and thus threatening against offense, Roar can phase out setup sweepers, Wisp can cripple stuff like Dnite more reliably etc. Just an incredibly flexible pokemon and it feels like most playstyles appreciate its talents, from HO to balance.
C- -> UR
Think these are kinda just bad and not really justifiable at all, as while they do have niches, they are way too small. Toxicroak is basically rain exclusive, which is not really a good start to begin with considering rain isn't great, but its not good at all. In theory, being a rilla, waterpon, zama, rai, hamu check sounds nice, but it kinda isn't worth it in actuality. Rillaboom does way too much to you, +2 wood hammer just completely annihilates you and hhp just wrecks you immensly (which has been seeing more use). Waterpon it does check, but it doesn't really stop it from clicking spikes on rain. Zama it does check well, but rain has other options like specs torn to check zama. Rai its only okay into due to ice beam chunking it, while hamu still sets up spikes on it. It also lets in pokemon such as ghold, pecha, gking which rain does not appreciate at all dealing with (particularly gking which resets weather). You can also use stuff like tusk or lando to check it pretty well despite toxic, and thus force it out (which rain teams don't like these mons since they can either do lots of damage or pivot respectively). And reminder, this is already on a niche playstyle.
IDT I've seen quagsire stall in a long time, unaware+spikes setter sounds cool but you take way too much damage from shit to jusitfy it most of the time. You kinda just are better off using dondozo 90% of the time or just a bunch of foul play mons.
Chansey is a similar case, it sounds cool but on stall typically blissey with an item is better (like lefties or cloak), while chansey offense is kinda a thing for the past. Doesn't see much use, and IDT its talents are as needed.
C -> C+/B-
Sz made a great rmt about it but TLDR, its defensive profile is insanely good and covers things that not much else can do while being a great breaker with its stabs+coverage. I'll just copy the part that sz talks about in his rmt:
It also checks a good chunk of pokemon more then you say. Darkrai (non focus blast withstanding, but even ting doesn't like taking +2 focus blast), kyurem, pecharunt, deoxys-s, pult, garg, i-val, molt, raging bolt, gking, torn, zapdos, ceruledge (unless its CC but that is rare nowadays), glimmora, heatran, iron moth, latios, goltres. Thats a good chunk of pokemon that it can help handle. It doesn't deal with all their variants, but it can help stave them off pretty well. CB is threatening primarily because even resists don't like losing their item, and the few that do absolutely despise taking stone edge (that being gliscor, clefable and corviknight). Your primary goal is to click knock off, and then maybe click coverage if needed. I also think you are heavily underrating how useful sand is. Ignoring that it enables excadrill, it also:
Breaks dragonite multiscale
Stops pokemon like waterpon and clefable from recovering as much health
Cancels out lefties on zama and rilla (g-terrain but same difference)
Boosts the spdef of garg as a teammate
Cancels out sun completely
This is utility that you get just by ttar existing. Combine that with the usual utility its other moves give (knock removing items, rocks are rocks, t-wave to slow down mons, roar to phase out setup sweepers), and you have something that can check a bunch of pokemon
A -> A+A+ is pretty barren rn, so these are the main mons I think should rise.
Gking is gking, its an incredibly glue mon due to its ability to soft check so much in the tier while also pivoting and applying pressure, whether that be from status or from its litany of coverage moves. From its stabs, to ice beam and flamethrower, to even surf to beat heatran, its able to customise its moveset to an insane degree. Yes some mons abuse it, but it can at worst, become a pivot regen bot, which is not the worst thing in the world.
Screens are good, and pult is absolutely amazing into screens due to infiltrator bypassing them. But even in general, it feels like pult is just super good due to its fast speed and ability to utilise any set it wants. From status pivot, to specs, to band, to screens, just anything it can really do, and while they aren't always the standout mon on the team, it always pulls its weight. Checking stuff like zama and woger is just the icing on the cake.
I think if you want a successful offense team, then lando is a must have for your team. While taunt sets are very good, I think some experimentation truly pushes lando into the A+ rank. Smack down I've been using a decent amount which turns the metal birds, the status birds, and even potentially dnite from pokemon that can usually take it on into mere targets that have to run away from it. But other options like SD, scarf, rock tomb are also viable options that really diversify its gameplan and make it much more annoying to deal with. But the bread and butter of "get up rocks, check a physical attacker or two, then pivot" is frankly good as ever.
B -> B+Maybe a bit of a personal pick, but I think volcanion is amazing in this meta. Firstly, it stuffs any and all molas, only av can even pray to beat it and they get heavily chipped between fire spin, and potentially taunt and/or sludge bomb poison. Its also a decent waterpon check with sludge bomb, as while it doesn't appreciate knock off, it can usually take one or two grass moves and ofc switch into ivy cudgel. It can also check stuff such as Gambit, Scor, Cinder, Pult, Hatt, i-val, Molt, Gking, Clefable, Primarina, Hamu, Moth, Scizor etc. It can also be decently flexible in its slots, both item wise and moveslot wise. Boots are good, shuca can trade exceedingly well, lefties gives it longevity, custap can be amazing into offense. Fire Spin can trap shit, with taunt helping that as well, sub can scout switches incredibly easily, Flame Charge is okay to make it faster and thus threatening against offense, Roar can phase out setup sweepers, Wisp can cripple stuff like Dnite more reliably etc. Just an incredibly flexible pokemon and it feels like most playstyles appreciate its talents, from HO to balance.
C- -> URThink these are kinda just bad and not really justifiable at all, as while they do have niches, they are way too small. Toxicroak is basically rain exclusive, which is not really a good start to begin with considering rain isn't great, but its not good at all. In theory, being a rilla, waterpon, zama, rai, hamu check sounds nice, but it kinda isn't worth it in actuality. Rillaboom does way too much to you, +2 wood hammer just completely annihilates you and hhp just wrecks you immensly (which has been seeing more use). Waterpon it does check, but it doesn't really stop it from clicking spikes on rain. Zama it does check well, but rain has other options like specs torn to check zama. Rai its only okay into due to ice beam chunking it, while hamu still sets up spikes on it. It also lets in pokemon such as ghold, pecha, gking which rain does not appreciate at all dealing with (particularly gking which resets weather). You can also use stuff like tusk or lando to check it pretty well despite toxic, and thus force it out (which rain teams don't like these mons since they can either do lots of damage or pivot respectively). And reminder, this is already on a niche playstyle.
IDT I've seen quagsire stall in a long time, unaware+spikes setter sounds cool but you take way too much damage from shit to jusitfy it most of the time. You kinda just are better off using dondozo 90% of the time or just a bunch of foul play mons.
Chansey is a similar case, it sounds cool but on stall typically blissey with an item is better (like lefties or cloak), while chansey offense is kinda a thing for the past. Doesn't see much use, and IDT its talents are as needed.
C -> C+/B-Sz made a great rmt about it but TLDR, its defensive profile is insanely good and covers things that not much else can do while being a great breaker with its stabs+coverage. I'll just copy the part that sz talks about in his rmt:
Feels better then all the C tier stuff, so should prob rise. More confident on C+ ranking, but B- is also something I wouldn't argue with.
I think a lot of this nom is kinda just, unfair to ttar. While the gholdengo point is valid (though fitting ghold checks isn't too hard), none of the darks appreciate pult clicking u-turn or wisp, and d-darts also chunks any non ting or gambit dark (hamu, rai, weavile etc). While it does have limited longevity, its bulk is more then enough for the BO teams or offense teams that ttar finds it on, as taking one or two powerful hits is more then enough.
I’ve tried to be positive with this mon and have given it a spin several times, but it is just so clunky to use in a lot of match ups. Its very defensively awkward where there are SOME match ups it’s quite good into, but it’s also a Dark type that doesn’t really check Dragapult or Gholdengo comfortably by itself when the former clicks U-Turn or Dragon Darts (or wisp!) and the latter is capable of just blowing up most Ttar with +2 MiRs and FBs. This forces teams to have to fit extra back up for these mons which isn’t desirable in a tier with so many powerful and demanding threats. It’s still possible to do this and support Ttar but the teams that can are limited. Its lack of longevity is exposed through how easily it’s worn down by even lighter hits alongside hazards and its poor speed makes it very easy to exploit or just blow back. And with how weakness laden its typing naturally is, it also doesn’t really check that much in practice. Yes CB is threatening when it predicts well but with a Pokémon that’s so vulnerable if you click the wrong move, that’s not great. And yes sand+knock is neat for helping against more resilient mons that tend to blanket check stuff, it’s not enough alone to keep this in B+ when its flaws are what they are.
It also checks a good chunk of pokemon more then you say. Darkrai (non focus blast withstanding, but even ting doesn't like taking +2 focus blast), kyurem, pecharunt, deoxys-s, pult, garg, i-val, molt, raging bolt, gking, torn, zapdos, ceruledge (unless its CC but that is rare nowadays), glimmora, heatran, iron moth, latios, goltres. Thats a good chunk of pokemon that it can help handle. It doesn't deal with all their variants, but it can help stave them off pretty well. CB is threatening primarily because even resists don't like losing their item, and the few that do absolutely despise taking stone edge (that being gliscor, clefable and corviknight). Your primary goal is to click knock off, and then maybe click coverage if needed. I also think you are heavily underrating how useful sand is. Ignoring that it enables excadrill, it also:
Breaks dragonite multiscale
Stops pokemon like waterpon and clefable from recovering as much health
Cancels out lefties on zama and rilla (g-terrain but same difference)
Boosts the spdef of garg as a teammate
Cancels out sun completely
This is utility that you get just by ttar existing. Combine that with the usual utility its other moves give (knock removing items, rocks are rocks, t-wave to slow down mons, roar to phase out setup sweepers), and you have something that can check a bunch of pokemon
We don't nominate Pokemon based on the number of Pokemon in tiers
A+ is pretty barren rn, so these are the main mons I think should rise.
Other than that I agree with most nominations.
Ok. Lets nominate.
A -> A+
It walls and checks so many threats such as 
and more!
and is able to damage with other important key targets with bb such as & 
. It pivots helping every team and is a good secondary hazard removal
A -> A+It walls and checks so many threats such as
and more!and is able to damage with other important key targets with bb such as
& . It pivots helping every team and is a good secondary hazard removalWhen it uses playrough and swords dance you practically know it set. Making it much easier to play around without fear of encore, knock off, u-turn and more. If it doesn't run play rough or u-turn hydra completely walls it and if it does than pecharunt and tera steel hydra wall (hydra is so good with tera steel)
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Ok, i will make a nomination
A+ -> S-
is an amazing defensive pivot and hazard setter at once, that can fulfill many valuable roles for a team, like an Electric and Ground immunity, a Knock Off user and absorber, a Spikes setter, etc. It has a lot of important tools and it helps to balance teams against many balance breakers: it beats 
1v1 without Tera, it cripples with Toxic, it hits hard , and it can use U-turn to escape of bad matchups like or Ice Beam 
and bring a teammate that can deal with these pokemon like , or (honestly i think that U-Turn is a very underrated option for balance teams since it makes less passive).
As a defensive pokemon, is extremely resilient, being immune to Spikes, neutral to Stealth Rock, having one of the best defensive types of the game in Ground/Flying and amazing longevity thanks to Poison Heal. 
has better defensive stats, Whirlwind, Ruination and it's a better defensive pokemon in a vacuum, but is easier to wear down with hazards and repeated assaults from the pokemon that is trying to check, and it's extremely reliant on Leftovers for longevity (besides RestTalk sets that i think that are bad because they make you even more passive) so despite resisting Knock Off it's not a good switch at all into Knock Off. Still i think that some teams will prefer instead of and that's fine.
The only drawbacks that i see from Gliscor is that 4x Ice weakness and the fact that you have to give a free turn to the opponent in order to activate Poison Heal, but none of these issues are dealbreakers and i think that the advantages compensate in a huge way the disadvantages. Also Protect helps to scout Ice coverage and to avoid giving a free turn to the opponent when it's attacking you
A+ -> S- is an amazing defensive pivot and hazard setter at once, that can fulfill many valuable roles for a team, like an Electric and Ground immunity, a Knock Off user and absorber, a Spikes setter, etc. It has a lot of important tools and it helps to balance teams against many balance breakers: it beats 1v1 without Tera, it cripples with Toxic, it hits hard , and it can use U-turn to escape of bad matchups like or Ice Beam and bring a teammate that can deal with these pokemon like , or (honestly i think that U-Turn is a very underrated option for balance teams since it makes less passive).As a defensive pokemon,
is extremely resilient, being immune to Spikes, neutral to Stealth Rock, having one of the best defensive types of the game in Ground/Flying and amazing longevity thanks to Poison Heal. has better defensive stats, Whirlwind, Ruination and it's a better defensive pokemon in a vacuum, but is easier to wear down with hazards and repeated assaults from the pokemon that is trying to check, and it's extremely reliant on Leftovers for longevity (besides RestTalk sets that i think that are bad because they make you even more passive) so despite resisting Knock Off it's not a good switch at all into Knock Off. Still i think that some teams will prefer instead of and that's fine. The only drawbacks that i see from Gliscor is that 4x Ice weakness and the fact that you have to give a free turn to the opponent in order to activate Poison Heal, but none of these issues are dealbreakers and i think that the advantages compensate in a huge way the disadvantages. Also Protect helps to scout Ice coverage and to avoid giving a free turn to the opponent when it's attacking you
I haven't been on the tier as much recently due to legends za ou and stuff but I do agree with this. I've tried a few teams with tar on around ~1700ish ladder range and it produced some decent results. Sand is def a good weather to have, especially for the chip, but the guy loses to most ghosts anyway. I'd rather run another dark who doesn't just drop to them if they aren't the right set (in gholds case all sets beat it). I will say, though, band is very very strong and definitely one a great knock user rn. It also does kinda check kyu (DD blows it up and so does specs tho :< )Enough time has passed
Time for spicy(?) takes
I’ve tried to be positive with this mon and have given it a spin several times, but it is just so clunky to use in a lot of match ups. Its very defensively awkward where there are SOME match ups it’s quite good into, but it’s also a Dark type that doesn’t really check Dragapult or Gholdengo comfortably by itself when the former clicks U-Turn or Dragon Darts (or wisp!) and the latter is capable of just blowing up most Ttar with +2 MiRs and FBs. This forces teams to have to fit extra back up for these mons which isn’t desirable in a tier with so many powerful and demanding threats. It’s still possible to do this and support Ttar but the teams that can are limited. Its lack of longevity is exposed through how easily it’s worn down by even lighter hits alongside hazards and its poor speed makes it very easy to exploit or just blow back. And with how weakness laden its typing naturally is, it also doesn’t really check that much in practice. Yes CB is threatening when it predicts well but with a Pokémon that’s so vulnerable if you click the wrong move, that’s not great. And yes sand+knock is neat for helping against more resilient mons that tend to blanket check stuff, it’s not enough alone to keep this in B+ when its flaws are what they are.
I js feel like our boy has to compete with many many other dark types to find a slot on anything but ultra dedicated teams.
Still hope it stays OU for the last bit of gen 9. Gotta let him get in his last moments of glory
Dropping some VR opinions before SPL starts. You know the drill, rises and then drops.
Rises
A+ > S-
After a whole year since Pecharunt has been OU, it has molded the very format around it. The single best physically defensive mon in the tier, basically inverse Ting-Lu but with pivoting and recovery. Its the easiest fix to the Zama/Dnite/Wellspring matchup of all time and the reason I’m throwing this nom out here is because Pecharunt fits almost anywhere, from Balance to Bulky Offense to Offense. P-Shot is broken in a meta that thrives off free turns and Nasty Plot is like SD Gliscor if it kept most of its defensive utility. Imo it’s close to Gholdengo in terms of viability. I’ve seen ppl call this passive and I gotta ask. Are we talking about the same Pokemon with Parting Shot, 100BP Toxic, and Nasty Plot? I find there to be no matchup where it’s useless, Pech is always doing shit.
A > A+
Ok enough time has passed, I think we can plug Valiant back into A+. Dropping Encore on this for Destiny Bond or additional coverage is the best thing I’ve done. If you look at most of the popular team structures (Rai + Mola) (Screens) (AV Kyu/Pech/Treads), Valiant forces either a kill or a game defining Knock. CM with Tbolt and Sball/Tblast Ground beats alot of its main checks including Molt, Pech, Ghold, Tran, and Corv. The uptick of SpD Corv is unfortunate, but this is something you can exploit as a builder, and that is the beauty of running Pokemon like Val. CM Val can stomp on Pech or Weez comps but has trouble vs Gking and SpD Corv without Tera. However that’s where you can slot in Samu, Gambit, Tusk, Ghold, and AoA Zama to exploit those threats. Synergy people. Spike Stack BOs appreciate the Knock support and the additional leeway Valiant provides in the builder.
B > B+
I find that Slither Wing solves a lot of teambuilding holes. Team comps wanting to run Wellspring has their Tusk check have to accept the possibility of CC Tusk and teams running non-Pech Poison/Ghost types have to respect AoA Zama which can muscle through these checks if its LO. Slither Wing doesn’t need to respect them. Its unique typing stonewalls these threats. This frees up the team building slot with things like Gliscor, Heatran, Tealpon, Lando, and Mr. Weez. Though not a switch-in, Slither Wing forces either a switch or a Tera which your team can exploit. I’ve also found that with heavy SpD investment, Slither Wing not only checks Specs Rai which many teams are using as their main wallbreaker, but also soft-checks AV and Subtect Kyu. Its one of the few mons to avoid a 3HKO from AV Kyu Ice Beam without being weak to Earth Power or Freeze Dry, an incredibly rare trait you won’t find outside of Stall. What this means is you can rock Kyu weak Steels like Heatran or offensive Gambit/Ghold. The amount of things that can hardwall Slither Wing is a blessing in disguise as a pivot. U-Turn on the obvious Gliscor, Pech, or Zapdos switch in and grab your kill with Kyurem. What else is there to say? It checks a bunch of meta relevant mons, provides pivoting and semi-reliable priority, and creates more diverse team-building routes.
-> C+
Imo C+ represents the line between Pokemon I would bring to a tour game or tryhard ladder runs and messing around with shitmons. The C rank mons and below don’t matter that much (you will always matter tho Mamoswine my beloved). With that said here’s a quick rundown.
Priority and wallbreaking in one is good role compression. Forces chip onto Ting-Lu, Tusk, etc. Has a few consistent switch-in opportunities with Iron Moth, Torn, and G-Weez.
Don’t need Spikes on this, ball with Ironpress + Knock. This mon is like Corv if it can touch Gholdengo and Ghost Gambit. Checks a couple key targets and with Tera you can 1v1 random shit like Tblast Roost Dnite.
Shoutouts to Thunder Pwoell. Mandibuzz has the rare trait of being a Balance mon that can check Ceruledge, one of the most glazed mons back during December. I prefer Toxic on this. Being free food for Torn, Prima, Val, and Bolt is so ass. If Mandibuzz had a respectable Atk stat, It would’ve been a staple, but that’s unfortunately not the timeline we live in.
The utility of Red Card Disguise on Spike Stack BO should be explored more. The role compression Mimikyu can provide feels too good to be chilling right next to Entei of all mons.
Hazard control is stronger than before and Corv/Tealpon comps have grown popular for their consistency which can safely bring in Thundy. NP Tbolt + Focus Blast rips through most of our best special walls. Specs is also decent.
Gotten attention from SCL and OLT. Status sponge, Knock Off support, and Ghost resist in one. BU Tera Poison ruins alot of relevant team comps.
Drops
S- > A+
Surprising take coming from me but I think Wellspring rn is…fine, not broken but obviously incredible for how good it is at forcing progress and keeping Tusk, Sun, and Mola in check. But I found that modern SV comps have gotten better at making Wellspring’s job harder. I’ve come to recognize how huge of a drawbrack being weak to U-Turn is. Anything that can outspeed or tank a hit from Wellspring will click U-Turn and generate massive reward and cost the Wellspring user crucial momentum. It has ways to offset that via Tera or Synthesis, but one of these requires burning a valuable resource (which some teams can exploit) and the other fills up a teamslot that could go into Play Rough for Kyurem or something. Common targets like Ting-Lu deletes half of its HP with Ruination and Tusk OHKOs with Spin + CC after rocks.
A > A-
Bolt is still great with trading and rkilling, but its tough for CM Neckingambit to be consistent with AV Kyu and Treads being all over the place. Bolt is an amazing Tera user ofc, but as we’ll see with a later example, having multiple sweepers reliant on Tera creates issues with win paths and unlike Gambit it doesn’t have that amazing defensive typing pre-Tera to bank on. From personal experience I don’t like having to rely on it. Specs Bolt is great if you can fit it though. Draco takes nearly half of Treads and most often they’re always swapping into it.
B+ > B
I’ll never cease my anti-Moth propaganda. Speed booster Moth is the most garbage shit ever. Every good team has like 3 checks to this mon and you have to tech coverage options or force yourself to burn Tera in order to make any resemblance of progress while hoping Fiery Dance doesn’t let you down for the 40th time in a week. The popularity of Ceruledge along with AV Torn, Mola, and Kyu doesn’t help at all. Every role this mon serves on offense, I could name several other mons I would rather run. Glimm and Pech have already taken its spot as the main Tspike absorber on Offense and are often better Fairy resists. Even Glimm and Ceru have taken its Fire resistance niche. Tspikes is a MU fish. You got Tblast Ground, but if I’m gonna use my Tera, I’d rather use it to bolster my wincons than to get 1 kill and then dies the following turn. Its not even good at speed control because a majority of offensive mons can simply eat a hit from Moth unless you’re some shit like Rilla or Valiant. Having to sabatoge your broken SpA stat just to use this garbage speed booster crap is so ass. Defensive Gholdengo should not be able to live a hit from you and T-Wave you. If you wanna use Moth? Use its SpA stat. Booster SpA, Choice Specs, Toxic, those are the good sets.
B > B-
Imma be honest, Stall is ass rn. When you look at some popular team comps, most of them have the tools to destroy or outlast Stall. Nasty Plot Pech, most Wellspring sets, Hatt, Metal Coat Ghold, Ceruledge, Body Press Kyu, Garg, Clef, Sand, there’s always something on the opponent’s team that just obliterates the average Stall. The playerbase has caught up with the innovations within the Stall playerbase. Stall does have good matchups, but a playstyle that relies on queueing into a good matchup is not consistent and not reliable to bring unless you KNOW for a fact the opponent isn’t gonna be ready for Stall which is increasingly less likely.
Rises
A+ > S-After a whole year since Pecharunt has been OU, it has molded the very format around it. The single best physically defensive mon in the tier, basically inverse Ting-Lu but with pivoting and recovery. Its the easiest fix to the Zama/Dnite/Wellspring matchup of all time and the reason I’m throwing this nom out here is because Pecharunt fits almost anywhere, from Balance to Bulky Offense to Offense. P-Shot is broken in a meta that thrives off free turns and Nasty Plot is like SD Gliscor if it kept most of its defensive utility. Imo it’s close to Gholdengo in terms of viability. I’ve seen ppl call this passive and I gotta ask. Are we talking about the same Pokemon with Parting Shot, 100BP Toxic, and Nasty Plot? I find there to be no matchup where it’s useless, Pech is always doing shit.
A > A+Ok enough time has passed, I think we can plug Valiant back into A+. Dropping Encore on this for Destiny Bond or additional coverage is the best thing I’ve done. If you look at most of the popular team structures (Rai + Mola) (Screens) (AV Kyu/Pech/Treads), Valiant forces either a kill or a game defining Knock. CM with Tbolt and Sball/Tblast Ground beats alot of its main checks including Molt, Pech, Ghold, Tran, and Corv. The uptick of SpD Corv is unfortunate, but this is something you can exploit as a builder, and that is the beauty of running Pokemon like Val. CM Val can stomp on Pech or Weez comps but has trouble vs Gking and SpD Corv without Tera. However that’s where you can slot in Samu, Gambit, Tusk, Ghold, and AoA Zama to exploit those threats. Synergy people. Spike Stack BOs appreciate the Knock support and the additional leeway Valiant provides in the builder.
B > B+I find that Slither Wing solves a lot of teambuilding holes. Team comps wanting to run Wellspring has their Tusk check have to accept the possibility of CC Tusk and teams running non-Pech Poison/Ghost types have to respect AoA Zama which can muscle through these checks if its LO. Slither Wing doesn’t need to respect them. Its unique typing stonewalls these threats. This frees up the team building slot with things like Gliscor, Heatran, Tealpon, Lando, and Mr. Weez. Though not a switch-in, Slither Wing forces either a switch or a Tera which your team can exploit. I’ve also found that with heavy SpD investment, Slither Wing not only checks Specs Rai which many teams are using as their main wallbreaker, but also soft-checks AV and Subtect Kyu. Its one of the few mons to avoid a 3HKO from AV Kyu Ice Beam without being weak to Earth Power or Freeze Dry, an incredibly rare trait you won’t find outside of Stall. What this means is you can rock Kyu weak Steels like Heatran or offensive Gambit/Ghold. The amount of things that can hardwall Slither Wing is a blessing in disguise as a pivot. U-Turn on the obvious Gliscor, Pech, or Zapdos switch in and grab your kill with Kyurem. What else is there to say? It checks a bunch of meta relevant mons, provides pivoting and semi-reliable priority, and creates more diverse team-building routes.
-> C+
Imo C+ represents the line between Pokemon I would bring to a tour game or tryhard ladder runs and messing around with shitmons. The C rank mons and below don’t matter that much (you will always matter tho Mamoswine my beloved). With that said here’s a quick rundown.
Priority and wallbreaking in one is good role compression. Forces chip onto Ting-Lu, Tusk, etc. Has a few consistent switch-in opportunities with Iron Moth, Torn, and G-Weez. Don’t need Spikes on this, ball with Ironpress + Knock. This mon is like Corv if it can touch Gholdengo and Ghost Gambit. Checks a couple key targets and with Tera you can 1v1 random shit like Tblast Roost Dnite. Shoutouts to Thunder Pwoell. Mandibuzz has the rare trait of being a Balance mon that can check Ceruledge, one of the most glazed mons back during December. I prefer Toxic on this. Being free food for Torn, Prima, Val, and Bolt is so ass. If Mandibuzz had a respectable Atk stat, It would’ve been a staple, but that’s unfortunately not the timeline we live in. The utility of Red Card Disguise on Spike Stack BO should be explored more. The role compression Mimikyu can provide feels too good to be chilling right next to Entei of all mons.Hazard control is stronger than before and Corv/Tealpon comps have grown popular for their consistency which can safely bring in Thundy. NP Tbolt + Focus Blast rips through most of our best special walls. Specs is also decent.
Gotten attention from SCL and OLT. Status sponge, Knock Off support, and Ghost resist in one. BU Tera Poison ruins alot of relevant team comps.
Drops
S- > A+Surprising take coming from me but I think Wellspring rn is…fine, not broken but obviously incredible for how good it is at forcing progress and keeping Tusk, Sun, and Mola in check. But I found that modern SV comps have gotten better at making Wellspring’s job harder. I’ve come to recognize how huge of a drawbrack being weak to U-Turn is. Anything that can outspeed or tank a hit from Wellspring will click U-Turn and generate massive reward and cost the Wellspring user crucial momentum. It has ways to offset that via Tera or Synthesis, but one of these requires burning a valuable resource (which some teams can exploit) and the other fills up a teamslot that could go into Play Rough for Kyurem or something. Common targets like Ting-Lu deletes half of its HP with Ruination and Tusk OHKOs with Spin + CC after rocks.
A > A-Bolt is still great with trading and rkilling, but its tough for CM Neckingambit to be consistent with AV Kyu and Treads being all over the place. Bolt is an amazing Tera user ofc, but as we’ll see with a later example, having multiple sweepers reliant on Tera creates issues with win paths and unlike Gambit it doesn’t have that amazing defensive typing pre-Tera to bank on. From personal experience I don’t like having to rely on it. Specs Bolt is great if you can fit it though. Draco takes nearly half of Treads and most often they’re always swapping into it.
B+ > BI’ll never cease my anti-Moth propaganda. Speed booster Moth is the most garbage shit ever. Every good team has like 3 checks to this mon and you have to tech coverage options or force yourself to burn Tera in order to make any resemblance of progress while hoping Fiery Dance doesn’t let you down for the 40th time in a week. The popularity of Ceruledge along with AV Torn, Mola, and Kyu doesn’t help at all. Every role this mon serves on offense, I could name several other mons I would rather run. Glimm and Pech have already taken its spot as the main Tspike absorber on Offense and are often better Fairy resists. Even Glimm and Ceru have taken its Fire resistance niche. Tspikes is a MU fish. You got Tblast Ground, but if I’m gonna use my Tera, I’d rather use it to bolster my wincons than to get 1 kill and then dies the following turn. Its not even good at speed control because a majority of offensive mons can simply eat a hit from Moth unless you’re some shit like Rilla or Valiant. Having to sabatoge your broken SpA stat just to use this garbage speed booster crap is so ass. Defensive Gholdengo should not be able to live a hit from you and T-Wave you. If you wanna use Moth? Use its SpA stat. Booster SpA, Choice Specs, Toxic, those are the good sets.
B > B-Imma be honest, Stall is ass rn. When you look at some popular team comps, most of them have the tools to destroy or outlast Stall. Nasty Plot Pech, most Wellspring sets, Hatt, Metal Coat Ghold, Ceruledge, Body Press Kyu, Garg, Clef, Sand, there’s always something on the opponent’s team that just obliterates the average Stall. The playerbase has caught up with the innovations within the Stall playerbase. Stall does have good matchups, but a playstyle that relies on queueing into a good matchup is not consistent and not reliable to bring unless you KNOW for a fact the opponent isn’t gonna be ready for Stall which is increasingly less likely.
Dropping some VR opinions before SPL starts. You know the drill, rises and then drops.
Rises
After a whole year since Pecharunt has been OU, it has molded the very format around it. The single best physically defensive mon in the tier, basically inverse Ting-Lu but with pivoting and recovery. Its the easiest fix to the Zama/Dnite/Wellspring matchup of all time and the reason I’m throwing this nom out here is because Pecharunt fits almost anywhere, from Balance to Bulky Offense to Offense. P-Shot is broken in a meta that thrives off free turns and Nasty Plot is like SD Gliscor if it kept most of its defensive utility. Imo it’s close to Gholdengo in terms of viability. I’ve seen ppl call this passive and I gotta ask. Are we talking about the same Pokemon with Parting Shot, 100BP Toxic, and Nasty Plot? I find there to be no matchup where it’s useless, Pech is always doing shit.
Ok enough time has passed, I think we can plug Valiant back into A+. Dropping Encore on this for Destiny Bond or additional coverage is the best thing I’ve done. If you look at most of the popular team structures (Rai + Mola) (Screens) (AV Kyu/Pech/Treads), Valiant forces either a kill or a game defining Knock. CM with Tbolt and Sball/Tblast Ground beats alot of its main checks including Molt, Pech, Ghold, Tran, and Corv. The uptick of SpD Corv is unfortunate, but this is something you can exploit as a builder, and that is the beauty of running Pokemon like Val. CM Val can stomp on Pech or Weez comps but has trouble vs Gking and SpD Corv without Tera. However that’s where you can slot in Samu, Gambit, Tusk, Ghold, and AoA Zama to exploit those threats. Synergy people. Spike Stack BOs appreciate the Knock support and the additional leeway Valiant provides in the builder.
I find that Slither Wing solves a lot of teambuilding holes. Team comps wanting to run Wellspring has their Tusk check have to accept the possibility of CC Tusk and teams running non-Pech Poison/Ghost types have to respect AoA Zama which can muscle through these checks if its LO. Slither Wing doesn’t need to respect them. Its unique typing stonewalls these threats. This frees up the team building slot with things like Gliscor, Heatran, Tealpon, Lando, and Mr. Weez. Though not a switch-in, Slither Wing forces either a switch or a Tera which your team can exploit. I’ve also found that with heavy SpD investment, Slither Wing not only checks Specs Rai which many teams are using as their main wallbreaker, but also soft-checks AV and Subtect Kyu. Its one of the few mons to avoid a 3HKO from AV Kyu Ice Beam without being weak to Earth Power or Freeze Dry, an incredibly rare trait you won’t find outside of Stall. What this means is you can rock Kyu weak Steels like Heatran or offensive Gambit/Ghold. The amount of things that can hardwall Slither Wing is a blessing in disguise as a pivot. U-Turn on the obvious Gliscor, Pech, or Zapdos switch in and grab your kill with Kyurem. What else is there to say? It checks a bunch of meta relevant mons, provides pivoting and semi-reliable priority, and creates more diverse team-building routes.
Drops
Surprising take coming from me but I think Wellspring rn is…fine, not broken but obviously incredible for how good it is at forcing progress and keeping Tusk, Sun, and Mola in check. But I found that modern SV comps have gotten better at making Wellspring’s job harder. I’ve come to recognize how huge of a drawbrack being weak to U-Turn is. Anything that can outspeed or tank a hit from Wellspring will click U-Turn and generate massive reward and cost the Wellspring user crucial momentum. It has ways to offset that via Tera or Synthesis, but one of these requires burning a valuable resource (which some teams can exploit) and the other fills up a teamslot that could go into Play Rough for Kyurem or something. Common targets like Ting-Lu deletes half of its HP with Ruination and Tusk OHKOs with Spin + CC after rocks.
Bolt is still great with trading and rkilling, but its tough for CM Neckingambit to be consistent with AV Kyu and Treads being all over the place. Bolt is an amazing Tera user ofc, but as we’ll see with a later example, having multiple sweepers reliant on Tera creates issues with win paths and unlike Gambit it doesn’t have that amazing defensive typing pre-Tera to bank on. From personal experience I don’t like having to rely on it. Specs Bolt is great if you can fit it though. Draco takes nearly half of Treads and most often they’re always swapping into it.
I’ll never cease my anti-Moth propaganda. Speed booster Moth is the most garbage shit ever. Every good team has like 3 checks to this mon and you have to tech coverage options or force yourself to burn Tera in order to make any resemblance of progress while hoping Fiery Dance doesn’t let you down for the 40th time in a week. The popularity of Ceruledge along with AV Torn, Mola, and Kyu doesn’t help at all. Every role this mon serves on offense, I could name several other mons I would rather run. Glimm and Pech have already taken its spot as the main Tspike absorber on Offense and are often better Fairy resists. Even Glimm and Ceru have taken its Fire resistance niche. Tspikes is a MU fish. You got Tblast Ground, but if I’m gonna use my Tera, I’d rather use it to bolster my wincons than to get 1 kill and then dies the following turn. Its not even good at speed control because a majority of offensive mons can simply eat a hit from Moth unless you’re some shit like Rilla or Valiant. Having to sabatoge your broken SpA stat just to use this garbage speed booster crap is so ass. Defensive Gholdengo should not be able to live a hit from you and T-Wave you. If you wanna use Moth? Use its SpA stat. Booster SpA, Choice Specs, Toxic, those are the good sets.
Imma be honest, Stall is ass rn. When you look at some popular team comps, most of them have the tools to destroy or outlast Stall. Nasty Plot Pech, most Wellspring sets, Hatt, Metal Coat Ghold, Ceruledge, Body Press Kyu, Garg, Clef, Sand, there’s always something on the opponent’s team that just obliterates the average Stall. The playerbase has caught up with the innovations within the Stall playerbase. Stall does have good matchups, but a playstyle that relies on queueing into a good matchup is not consistent and not reliable to bring unless you KNOW for a fact the opponent isn’t gonna be ready for Stall which is increasingly less likely.
I strongly disagree with Raging Bolt dropping to A-. Bolt a fantastic progress maker with Choice Specs with the proper support since it can make short and long-term progress against Ting-Lu and even Iron Treads doesn't like switching into Draco Meteor even it's SpD-invested. Yeah, Fairy-type Pokemon are immune to Draco Meteor, but there is no Fairy in OU that enjoys taking Thunderbolt, and if you have good teammates that force those Fairy-type Pokemon in to take Knock Off or hazard chip, you can chip them long-term and make your opponent less likely to switch the Fairy-type mon in if they need to preserve it for something else. Booster Energy also needs to be respected as a check to Poltergeist Ceruledge, which is a demon. Raging Bolt is also commonly used both inside and outside of sun, so I believe it shouldn't be in the same subrank as Walking Wake.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 228-268 (44.3 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Iron Treads: 164-193 (42.8 - 50.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I also disagree with Ogerpon-Wellspring dropping to A+ as she's still excellent at what it does even though I don't think she's broken and that there's enough counterplay to her. Maybe you shouldn't hard switch Ogerpon-Wellspring into Ruination every time or Great Tusk without knowing if it has Close Combat as that seems like it could be a builder issue.
I also disagree with Iron Valiant to A+ but don't care particularly strongly if it rises to A+ even though I don't think it should. Destiny Bond is not hard to scout given Iron Valiant usually isn't enough of an immediate threat that you need to KO it right away since it's not necessarily a top threat to any archetype.
As for stuff I do agree with, I do agree with Pecharunt rising to S- as it's the most splashable check to Zamazenta, Dragonite, and Ogerpon-Wellspring in the tier, and it's good on balance, BO, and offense in general because it fills so many roles teams need with Foul Play (check to physical set-up), Parting Shot, and either Malignant Chain/Toxic (check to set-up sweepers, especially those with Tera Fairy and walls too), and Nasty Plot has to be respected in the builder as well.
I also agree with Slither Wing to B+ 'cause the defensive set is one of the better checks to Zama out there, and it's a Great Tusk check with recovery that's not Rocks weak, which is a useful niche. The Assault vest set is also a decent check to AV Kyurem as you say while still being able to check some Ground-type Pokemon not named Gliscor.
I completely agree with Iron Moth dropping to B as the Booster Speed set is very easily stopped, and if you Tera Ground, you're likely at most getting one kill as you say. With increased usage of Tyranitar, Heatran, AV Mola, and Excadrill, Iron Moth has a harder time than ever making progress.
I also agree with Dondozo and Blissey dropping to B-. Dondozo is just so exploitable by so many mons and moves like Ogerpon-Wellspring, Knock Off, Psychic Noise, Encore, and there are too many mons that can force it into Rest loops. Stall pretty much needs Tera Dark Dondozo right now to not autolose to Life Orb Ceruledge. Blissey also wasn't even on the last two stall RMTs, so she's not even mandatory on stall anymore and gets shredded by Metal Coat Gholdengo so hard that Gholdengo doesn't even need to run Psyshock to beat her anymore.
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Why doesn't anyone use any other set? Booster sp.at agility is just better than booster speed. scarf can pivot with u-turn and every set other than booster speed actually has 140 sp.at and not 125.5.
I’ll never cease my anti-Moth propaganda. Speed booster Moth is the most garbage shit ever
It genuinely confuses me so much why the only set people use is the worst set.
I'm not going to argue any other points in this post, but this is just completely wrong. Speed Booster Moth is not its best set, but it has its usecases, primarily the fact that its pretty good against opposing offense, being able to trade reliably into most offensive teams. Take the volcanion hazard stack sample, nothing on the team reliably switches into it, with the best being lando or volc who have to trade a large chunk of their hp into it. It also very easily switches in, being able to switch into pecha, gambit and i-val here. Lets take the dnite+gambit screens too, switches in on val and gambit, and the best answer is either glim or dnite (glim dies to psychic variants while dnite doesn't appreciate losing multiscale). I also disagree with the statements about ceru and kyurem, kyurem typically has to trade a good chunk of its HP to beat it, while moth is a check to ceru since even ada LO +2 attacks don't ohko it (aside from tghost +2 sneak, which is a roll) as it can then precede to phase it out with wwind.
I’ll never cease my anti-Moth propaganda. Speed booster Moth is the most garbage shit ever. Every good team has like 3 checks to this mon and you have to tech coverage options or force yourself to burn Tera in order to make any resemblance of progress while hoping Fiery Dance doesn’t let you down for the 40th time in a week. The popularity of Ceruledge along with AV Torn, Mola, and Kyu doesn’t help at all. Every role this mon serves on offense, I could name several other mons I would rather run. Glimm and Pech have already taken its spot as the main Tspike absorber on Offense and are often better Fairy resists. Even Glimm and Ceru have taken its Fire resistance niche. Tspikes is a MU fish. You got Tblast Ground, but if I’m gonna use my Tera, I’d rather use it to bolster my wincons than to get 1 kill and then dies the following turn. Its not even good at speed control because a majority of offensive mons can simply eat a hit from Moth unless you’re some shit like Rilla or Valiant. Having to sabatoge your broken SpA stat just to use this garbage speed booster crap is so ass. Defensive Gholdengo should not be able to live a hit from you and T-Wave you. If you wanna use Moth? Use its SpA stat. Booster SpA, Choice Specs, Toxic, those are the good sets.
Furthermore, saying that several pokemon you would rather run on offense over moth IDT is really fair given what you listed. Glimm and Pech are much worse at taking on the fairies (they dont appreciate taking +1 shadow ball at all, while in glimms case, cannot threaten it immediately in return, whereas with moth, not only does it threaten with sludge wave, but can also phase it out with wwind). Are these two+ceru good pokemon? Absolutely. But they aren't better fairy resists in the slightest (if the val is using psyshock, then only ceru really works better, but from what I've seen thats rarer). Tspikes isn't really that much of an MU fish, as typically the team its found on are built around abusing the poisons with pokemon such as tusk, forcing awkward situations where either the checks of said mons like hydrapple or zama have to take a poison, or they have to sack their poison. Tblast ground is a good option to help lure in pokemon such as gking and heatran, which can enable teammates like serp or ghold that might struggle with these mons. Yes these offensive mons can trade with it, but this is typically beneficial for the moth user as that Pokemon might have been holding back a teammate like wellspring. Defensive ghold has a roll to live specs pult shadow ball or banded pult phantom force, IDT this should be the benchmark for speed booster moth being 'weak'.
Also, if speed booster is so bad... then don't use it? Feels incredibly weird to complain about it when there are multiple other viable sets to be used that are very good, booster SpA is great on webs and screens and can easily break down teams, specs is also great to do nuclear damage, particularly under sun. Toxic is a great lure to mons like ting lu and dnite that might check it. Wwind is great at burning booster energies while racking up hazard chip and soft checking a good amount of mons, morning sun can give moth some needed longevity, boots with u-turn are decent offensive pivots, m-beam with power herb can lure in flying types that might check it like dnite, molt and av torn. I think that judging moth on just speed booster is not fair to it, and basically ignores a good chunk of moths viability.
When people start actually using and win with it. I believe other sets could be a- if not a rank. But there's no proof. It's pure theory
It’s very strong yes, but it’s also harder to fit on teams. Bolt already has trouble with a limited defensive profile and thus can struggle to repeatedly switch into battle as even resisted quickly pile up when hazards are digging in. Booster sets tend to lose a lot of oomph if they’re forced out (easily done if facing a Ting Lu or Treads team unless you commit Tera. It’s a good Pokémon don’t get me wrong, but I wouldn’t say it’s quite at the level of the average in A right now, especially when that A rank contains all kinds of staples which are able to bring consistent value to their teams and don’t require as much support.
I wouldn’t really agree that it’s that good at trading against opposing offense tbh. Even most offense teams are prepared for Moth and have some kind of check if not also a back up. Its lack of immediate power causes it to miss KOs with its coverage moves often if it fails to get a +1 from Fiery Dance, and sometimes can wind up just missing KOs even at +1.
I wouldn’t say it “easily switches in” to something like Gambit or Pecha, since the former clocks it if it clicks Kowtow and the latter if it clicks Parting Shot will just regain momentum in its trainer’s favor (yes if you read and switch into iron head or an attack from pecha you’ll get some momentum). And even if it gets into battle, it still just isn’t that threatening and especially not threatening if it can’t get a +1 boost. As for the Kyu and Edge match up, Greninja specifically referred to AV Kyu which handily stomps Moth. Ceruledge meanwhile doesn’t even care that Moth survived a hit because it is forced to lose all its health just to phase it out and whirlwind moth is EXTREMELY specific and cuts into the mon’s already crowded moveset. Which is a problem itself, moth will never have a truly satisfactory 4 moves on a set when it comes to move sets.
Tspikes are definitely a fish. There’s too many teams unbothered by them or able to absorb them to be worth running as a consistent slot. You’re required to make pretty specific and aggressive plays just to try and keep them up or use specific sets to lure poisons in (like you suggested tblast ground) but these are again specific and not even guaranteed to work. Tspikes as a whole are inconsistent on most mons anyways so it’s not just a moth problem. It simply isn’t worth bending over backwards to make it work.
As for trading to KO moth… I just don’t agree it’s an even or beneficial trade for the moth user. And Ghold living a bit from Moth is there to illustrate that despite its large spatk stat, it lacks power out the gate and thus struggles to exert pressure.
I’ll just give my thoughts on these sets but… spatk booster may be solid on webs but webs are a very niche and inconsistent playstyle at best, so I’m not sure if it’s worth mentioning. Screens is another story, but I don’t know if it’s even good enough to acknowledge here when screens already has a much better fire type in Ceruledge which is far more potent. The rest… again whirlwind is simply too specific on a non with such small defensive utility. Morning sun gives up a move slot for coverage which just makes it easier to check than it already is, boots pivot sets are just too weak and won’t make progress or have utility like other pivots do. Toxic is legitimately good, I’ll agree with that, and specs is a good breaker for some teams but I just think moth is too flawed and not up to par with the rest of what’s in B+ right now.