Tournament National Dex 35 Pokes PL - Playable Tiers Discussion

[Gravity Monkey]

Super new 35er so I’m not gonna talk much about specific months (altho I wish my baby September 25 was in the conversation), but I wanted to share thoughts on less specific ideas.

I really really support the idea of having "current month" slots. Not only because current gen is a mainstay and usually the biggest story maker of most smogon PLs but also because I think real time metagame developpment is paramount to 35’s appeal as a project, at least imo. Obv old months have their place since this is one of the only occasion to replay them, but I think having a little place for the 35 experience that is "you have 30 days to figure this shit out, go" seems like an obvious win. I like TTK’s proposal of following the current 35 meta better over rolling a totally new meta for the PL specifically, 1- because theres already a buttload of different 35 metas so I think we should try to limit the expansion a little and 2- because it reduces the load of metagame knowledge of each player by sharing it with the general userbase. Its time consuming to figure out a 35 meta, especially if you only have two players and a few testers to do that. For this same reason I support having two slots rather than a single one.

I’m a little on the fence about including VGC metagames. On one side, I’m a big fan of them. I’ve also got the general feeling that 35 is starting to make strides to have a stronger doubles presence, wether its the nov25 tournament run last month or the pollings mambo has been doing around vgc interest in perfect. This would be a great step in that direction, as well as a window into 35 for a very different playerbase. At the same time, though, looking at this realistically, 35 VGC currently has a very limited playerbase, with the aforementioned tour only barey getting over the 8 players threshold. It’s dwarfed by interest in perfect in terms of OMs, and I’m wondering if we’d be gatekeeping the inclusion of a potentially more alive and sought after tier by including one. I can see arguments for both sides, I think it depends on what are the broader objectives of 35pl. If a doubles metagame had to be picked, I fully support november 25.

 

[Portobello]

A few points I'd like to make and to reiterate what others have already said.
1. I'm very much in favor of avoiding repeat metas from the last PL. The point of 35 is show off diverse and interesting metas. With a catalogue of over 30 metas at this point, I don't see why we should repeat when there are plenty of well-liked and fun metas that could be played instead. The one I'd like to advocate for the most is April 2024. April 2024 is rather infamous for the slow pace of matches, but I think that's an interesting quality that some players will enjoy. Slower games reward good positioning and forethought. Moreover, the slower pace allows for slower-developing strategies that wouldn't work in other metas. I think there's still lots of room for innovation in April 24. I mean, I successfully used 2 of the bottom 3 mons on the VR successfully in the finals. I think that says something about the balance of April 24.

2. I also quite like the idea of the current month being in 35 PL. It really accelerates meta development and the freshness is something that older metas can't provide. To that point, look at February of last year. February 25 was a fantastic meta. Between the usual activity, the showdown ladder and its spot in 35PL S1 that meta got a LOT of play and turned out to be great. The active emergence of a meta is fun to watch at high competitive level.

TL;DR: We shouldn't repeat already played metas, I support the inclusion of April 24, and I think the current month should be in

 

[Turtle12]

From the ratings on the 35pokes wiki it appears a couple months are under-represented in these discussions. The most notable of these months is November 2024. November 2024 is a balanced lower power meta that I believe still has a lot to offer. It felt like one of the best pokemon, pinsir, only began gaining popularity later in the month. The meta is well received and has one of the higher ratings on the site but nobody is talking about it.

I agree that repeating February 24 and March 24 in a pl takes away slots from other metas but at the same time those metas have some of the highest ratings from the player survey. To me it feels like March is less represented than Feb despite having the similar ratings but both of those months have already seen a lot of the spotlight.

More recent months should really get more attention. September and October 2025 are both well liked and deserve more consideration. The opportunity cost of re-running months means that newer months like these get left behind.

Some other well liked (according the player survey results on the 35poke website) older metas like April 2024 also have not received too many recommendations but it would be cool to see one of the earlier regenerator metas in a pl. Once again repeating metas comes at the expense at leaving behind these other well loved metas.

Finally having both perfect 35 and VGC seems excessive considering the majority of the playerbase plays the main format and singles. It is nice to give some representation to 35pokes OMs but we should really limit it to 1 meta per pl, and perfect 35 has earned that slot. Once again including VGC comes at the expense of other well loved and highly rated 35pokes metas such as the under-represented metas mentioned earlier in this post.

As a final biased note, I am personally a March and July 2025 hater so I hope neither of those metas get chosen.

 

[RetroDude42]

I am going to talk about my favorite metas of 2025 and then give a bit of a sales pitch for 35 VGC.

First off, October 25 is a no-brainer for this PL, so I am glad to see it be included in the tentative list. Having an official Showdown ladder allowed the meta to develop greatly and be widely recognizable. It has an extra level of familiarity for many people and I think that its extra development also lends itself to tournament play.
The other meta I enjoyed greatly was September 25. I do not know if it is very popular, but I enjoyed it due to being able to play at a bit of a slower pace. This is just my two cents, though.

As for 35 VGC, I understand the concerns that the meta may be a little unpopular. However, I know many people in the 35 Pokes community who enjoy playing double battle formats. Furthermore, 35 Pokes has partnered with many double battle formats and servers, like 4v4 Doubles UU and Maddy's Whimsicott League. My point is that I think there are many players who would be down to play 35 VGC if we put a spotlight on it by including it in this PL.
The 35 VGC November 2025 meta would probably be my choice for a 35 VGC slot due to it being the most developed meta.

 

[fredadore]

I agree with both agree and disagree with Retro. I disagree with October 25, I felt that meta got stale fairly quickly in my opinion and didn't have too much fun playing it personally. I do agree with September 25. I found that meta extremely fun, especially once Shed Tail was removed. The meta was constantly evolving and I feel like it could continue to do so with some more interaction.

I also like the idea of 35 VGC as other formats rather than base Singles would be great to add to a meta. I have not personally participated in any 35 VGC, so I cannot suggest any specific formats and will leave that to more capable hands.

Another month that I will support is August 25. I found the play style and pattern very enjoyable and everything that seems broken has multiple very usable answers, so you're not forced to run niche answers.

 

[Ember Celica]

From the ratings on the 35pokes wiki it appears a couple months are under-represented in these discussions. The most notable of these months is November 2024. November 2024 is a balanced lower power meta that I believe still has a lot to offer. It felt like one of the best pokemon, pinsir, only began gaining popularity later in the month. The meta is well received and has one of the higher ratings on the site but nobody is talking about it.

I agree that repeating February 24 and March 24 in a pl takes away slots from other metas but at the same time those metas have some of the highest ratings from the player survey. To me it feels like March is less represented than Feb despite having the similar ratings but both of those months have already seen a lot of the spotlight.

More recent months should really get more attention. September and October 2025 are both well liked and deserve more consideration. The opportunity cost of re-running months means that newer months like these get left behind.

Some other well liked (according the player survey results on the 35poke website) older metas like April 2024 also have not received too many recommendations but it would be cool to see one of the earlier regenerator metas in a pl. Once again repeating metas comes at the expense at leaving behind these other well loved metas.

Finally having both perfect 35 and VGC seems excessive considering the majority of the playerbase plays the main format and singles. It is nice to give some representation to 35pokes OMs but we should really limit it to 1 meta per pl, and perfect 35 has earned that slot. Once again including VGC comes at the expense of other well loved and highly rated 35pokes metas such as the under-represented metas mentioned earlier in this post.

I agree with everything you said here and believe that everyone in this discussion should consider it thoroughly, save for your point regarding the exclusion of 35 VGC for the sake of including 35 Perfect. I wholeheartedly believe that the 35 OM communities should support and uplift eachother, especially as 35 Pokes the main tier has greatly benefited from similar sentiments among our own counterparts over the past few years. And as a correction, I would like to point out that 35 VGC in fact is one of those beloved and underrepresented metas because it uses the same list as 35 Pokes Singles. If there is a concern regarding the OMs reducing main tier representation and inclusion, then reason would suggest that 35 Pokes VGC is in fact the only OM that is even eligible to be represented. The fundamental principle of 35 Pokes is to see just how much one can do with a randomly generated list of 35 Pokemon; 35 VGC is simply an extension of that spirit. In fact, as many in this thread have indicated, this PL should feature as many 35 Pokes metas (sets of 35 pokemon) as possible, it naturally follows that including a month via 35 VGC would be the happy medium between just doing as much main 35 Pokes as possible and attempting to include OMs.


On another note, some of the discussion I have seen in this thread has left me wondering whether people wish to see only the most popular and played tiers to be included, or if they wish to see primarily the lesser-played and underrepresented tiers included. From what I have gathered, some are of the opinion that D1 ought to be included in large part due to its playerbase, popularity, and development. As somebody who has been around this tier a long time, before even the inception of 35 Perfect, the ways in which D1 is discussed remind me heavily of the ways in which February and March of 2024 were discussed when those tiers were in more recent memory. RetroDude42 ThyUnitPossessCopium NoExistencia I think you were all there around that time you can probably also speak to what I’m talking about here. February and March 24 were nearly 2 years ago now, and so naturally newer formats have taken over in fervor of discussion. This does leave us with a contradiction though — February and March 24 are to not be in the league for the same reasons that D1 ought to be in the league. As many have pointed out recently, thematic consistency is quite important and in my view that extends to our justifications for deciding things of equal importance such as 35 PL playable tiers. To purposefully not feature the main 35 Pokes tiers with the most development, players, and competitive adoration while at the same time featuring an OM metagame that shares those features would be quite strange, to say the least. This also raises the question of if those expressing such opinions in this thread may be interested in a team-style tournament in which only OMs could be featured, one that would allow for even underrepresented 35 Perfect metagmes, for example, to be playable? I’ve been told before that the demand for such a thing does not exist, but given the tenor of discussion so far I do sincerely hope to see that notion proven to be quite incorrect.

 

[AlfrexFrostStaff]

I'm personally all for not repeating metas that have already seen play in past PLs for reasons already mentioned (and not just cause I didn't exist yet/didn't like it). It definitely creates more variety within the PL itself and also when comparing 35 PLs and potentially means more people can join cause of an overall larger group of metas. Although, I wouldn't mind having one meta that was repeated every PL, it could lead to some interesting meta developments between PLs.

As for the inclusion of OMs, I'm personally not interested in VGC but I think there's enough room to include both a 35 perfect meta and a VGC meta if Feb24, Mar24, and Feb25 are removed for being repeats. I don't know if there are any other months that the majority would want to play in this PL anyways so it wouldn't hurt to have 2 OMs.

 

[Ember Celica]

With regards to not repeating any metagames from last year, I understand the sentiment though unfortunately I don’t believe it to quite be realistic for the long-term health of this league or the tier overall. I would hate to see the time and effort players spent during the last PL mastering their chosen metagames not at all be rewarded in this one. While being good at 35 Pokes the overall tier is certainly a skill, even our very best players such as AReallyShiftyGuy BIGSHOT_ranger Dacruize 7ayakum Turtle12 have 35 Pokes tiers they are better at and ones they aren’t. As it stands right now, the only two formats from the previous premier league included as primary suggestions are March and February of 2024 which, if we are to be repeating formats, are among the strongest contenders to be repeated. February 2025 and August 2024 are included as backup tiers since we knew their primary counterparts were a little bit controversial and wanted to demonstrate our awareness of that. Repeating absolutely no tiers from the previous PL will also serve as a disincentive towards players whose main experience with 35 Pokes is through one of those tiers. 2025 saw the aforementioned two metagames featured in a retro tournament and the NDAMPL, both hosted here on the forums, and so I imagine players whose primary interaction with our tier is through its forum presence may appreciate seeing those forum-represented tiers in the forum-hosted premier league. Yes, those tiers see a lot of play and yes, there is much more to 35 Pokes than just what we have done before. But that isn’t cause to abandon the past with reckless disregard; there is something to be said for the value of a modicum of stability in the midst of an every-changing format. The classic metagames are classic for a reason — they are fun, well-developed, balanced and competitive. February 2024 only works as a best of 3, but March 24 is flexible enough to be either that or a bo1 or even something else entirely. @gcgoat has mentioned the idea of a February 2024 / March 2024 / April 2024 Bo3 both here and on the 35 Pokes discord, and having considered both the elegance of that solution and the fact that February 24 is not quite fit to be a bo1 tier, I’d like to propose a different spin on his idea:

Rotating slot - Feb 24 bo3 / Mar 24 bo3 in alternating weeks
Stable slot - April 24 / D1 / Losers’ Choice bo3

alternatively, I could see
D1 / Mar24 / April 24 working quite well and maybe Feb24 gets included somewhere else.

another option I like as an alternative to the Feb/March alternating slot is a bo3 of classics — Dec23/Feb24/Mar24 with the starting meta each week determined by the hosts and the proceeding metas being chosen by the loser of the previous game. This would avoid “locking” any players into Feb24 bo1, but thematically would make up for the Feb24 bo1 inclusion anyways. In fact, on the note of classics, August 2023 could be added to the list as a choice meta. This would be: Aug23/Dec23/Feb24/Mar24, starting meta determined each week by hosts, proceeding metas being losers’ choice. And if the losers’ choice aspect is not quite feasible in a PL settings, then I would be more than ok letting the hosts decide the order of metagames for this slot each week.

Those paying close attention to both this current post, my previous post, my ramblings in the discord, and my most recently submitted sample team may be noticing a pattern here — I would very much like to have my cake and eat it too. I have long been a fan of both rotating and bo3 formats, but I was hesitant to be the one to bring that up due to already having played a significant role is selecting the tiers included in this thread (although the current list is neither binding nor final). It has also been my experience that the joy of having a favored tier included in something such as the 35 PL can be just as well engendered by a stable bo1 slot as it can by inclusion in a multi-tier bo3 slot. More 35, more games, more tiers included, and more fun — it’s a win win.



Re: Current Meta Slot

Whoever can guess what I’m about to suggest gets a cookie. It won’t be a big cookie though, because I don’t think my suggestion is that hard to guess. If you really want a bigger cookie though, I guess we could consider it — ThyUnitPossessCopium will open up a cookie size discussion thread and you can make your thoughts known there. Baked goods aside, my suggestion is that we do a 2026 bo3 slot featuring the current metagame alongside the two most recent previous metagames. Assuming we begin play in March, this would mean that the format would be: March 26 / February 26 / January 26. Come April, it would be: April 26, March 26, February 26. This incentivizes players to keep up with the current metagame but also accounts for the player in the 2026 slot potentially not really clicking with one of them. I have rarely seen a player be equally competitively satisfied with 3 tiers in a row, and I feel it would be too much to ask of people to stake their team tournament experience on their enjoyment of metagames which don’t quite exist yet.

I have also seen the prospect of a PL-exclusive metagame brought up a few times and I’m warming up to it more than I thought I would. It would be really weird, unprecedented, strange even, and as I type those words out I find myself becoming even more excited at the prospect of trying this out. Strange, weird, and unprecedented are all good things as far as I’m concerned, particularly in a metagame where Heatmor of all things is currently both a defensive staple and a soft check to physically defensive Rotom-Wash (no, I promise you I’m not kidding). Particularly if we release the PL-exclusive meta prior to week 1, it would offer a great window into how a 35 Pokes metagame could develop given more than 30 days to do so upon its inception. Inception really would be the answer to all my woes right now, but much like Werewolves, Zombies, and the grass I’ve yet to touch, Inception doesn’t exist; the 35 PL does though, and I think that since we’re doing it for the second or third time we should have fun with it, make it a great big tournament that’s got something for every type of 35 player. That prospect may sound like a fantasy, but unlike Werewolves, Zombies, and all things that go bump in the night, it couldn’t be more real.

 

[BIGSHOT_ranger]

add Perfect 35 D1 idc if its custom or not :)
it’s the most fun meta in last 12 months !

 

[Ember Celica]

As for 35 VGC, I understand the concerns that the meta may be a little unpopular. However, I know many people in the 35 Pokes community who enjoy playing double battle formats. Furthermore, 35 Pokes has partnered with many double battle formats and servers, like 4v4 Doubles UU and Maddy's Whimsicott League. My point is that I think there are many players who would be down to play 35 VGC if we put a spotlight on it by including it in this PL.
The 35 VGC November 2025 meta would probably be my choice for a 35 VGC slot due to it being the most developed meta.

I'd like to highlight what RetroDude42 said in his last paragraph here because it's extremely relevant - fully half of the tiering council is currently competing in the 4v4duu (a tier everyone reading this should play) kickoff tournament right now, and some of them are doing quite well in the meta (especially Zetious) despite not having the most experience with 4v4 doubles or vgc-type formats. The barrier to entry for singles players trying out a novel 4v4 doubles format is far higher than that for singles players trying out a 4v4 doubles format using a set of pokemon they are already intimately familiar for and higher still than the barrier for entry of existing VGC players to get into yet another VGC format (like 35 vgc). The success of vgc and 4v4 doubles formats on the forums in recent months as well as PLs of other tiers roughly comparable in size and status to natdex 35 has demonstrated that, when there is doubles available to play, the doubles community will show up to do so. Community has always been paramount to 35 Pokes and is among the things our playerbase says they value most, and further incorporating the doubles community into the tier via this PL would be an apt demonstration of that principle.

 

[7ayakum]

First of all, I’d like to thank all the people involved from tier leaders, to moderators, to the playerbase, all of you for making 35 PL the success that it was and is. I love that this niche format in our corner of competitive Pokémon has its own PL.

Now I’d like to voice my thoughts on what I consider to be non-negotiables regarding how metas are picked for the upcoming PL.

We should not have any repeat slots and we should have a current metagame slot. It felt like a missed opportunity to not have that last time out.

Moving on to metas I enjoyed and/or would like to see.

>Current meta deserves a slot. Besides the fact that ive found it to be very enjoyable and we’ve got a refreshing roster of Pokémon I feel. Currently it seems like there are a lot of styles you can play, anything goes. And we’ve already discovered unique techs like AV heatmor for Typhlosion-Hisui.

>July 23 being the first ever 35 meta has a strong case for having a slot. It’s received a lot of love recently through room tours and such, and newer players even building teams and searching for a game in matchmaking to play the meta which I think is really cool and a testament to the appeal of the meta.

>Dec 23 is iconic for three weathers but no abusers. It’s one of the only metas where I felt like there were completely different teams that could each be considered to be “standard meta” and optimal. There is sentimental value there having it be the first meta I played because of the retro tour, but I genuinely believe it’s one of the most unique and balanced metas there is, and is still so under explored.

>April 25 is generally considered as our most balanced ladder meta and is appreciated for its low power nature. Trust me I’m not suggesting it because I won the tour, I actually didn't find it very enjoyable to play, but it’s very balanced, has a lot of cooking potential, and has one of the lowest probabilities of rng influencing the outcome of your games.

>July 2025 I think being the bucket meta and having two bans makes it stand out as an iconic meta. We had a lot of higher level and borderline level mons for 35. I felt every phase of the meta was very enjoyable. However, I know that I’m in the minority when it comes to this meta, and there’s definitely a bias from me winning it. I won’t suggest for a slot but I think it does deserve some love.

>March 2025 is the best meta in 2025 imo. Every turn felt game defining, the meta itself promoted pro activity: anticipating the switch in from your opponent and switching your own check in to deal with their threat all the while positioning your breakers in Lucario, medicham, jynx, or set up sweepers in Scolipede, revavroom, drifblim, kabutops, etc. to get ahead of your opponent. The meta really felt like playing blitz chess yes it wasn’t just HO spam. We also saw unorthodox checks like Gourgeist and later on Gabite. And the meta felt like it was constantly being tweaked or changed during the ladder and in every stage of the tour.

>October 25 deserves a shout. Being a ladder meta earns it a spot and while it isn’t one of my favourite metas, I can’t deny that it was one that rewarded patient and methodical gameplay.

>Finally I’d like to speak on one of the most underrated metas ever, my precious June 24. I bet so many people here can’t even recall that meta but man it was so cool. It definitely has one of the best real mon:unmon ratio. Brought about a lot of unique teams with Psy Spam, balance, HO, BO, Semi-stall. We had 3 terrains in Psychic, grassy, and electric. AV Raticate-Alola was a real thing. SIRFETCHD was a real thing. We had Delphox alongside Indeedee and it didn’t even feel broken. Cyclizar could use shed tail and that wasn’t even a big issue as well (shed tail should still be banned). It felt like there was a number of breakers and sweepers to pick from that all had their pros and cons. I really feel like this meta deserves more love and recognition. If I could have complete control on one slot of 35PL, I would definitely give that to June 24.

>For our OM slot, 35 perfect wholeheartedly deserves that. Any 35 perfect meta works, im confident that d1 would be the one that people suggest most.

There’s probably others im missing but I’ve rambled on too much like always and I think I’ve mentioned the ones that needed mentioning.

 

[BIGSHOT_ranger]

add fire boy and water girl in the forest temple. i think it is under explored

 

[BIGSHOT_ranger]

First of all, I’d like to thank all the people involved from tier leaders, to moderators, to the playerbase, all of you for making 35 PL the success that it was and is. I love that this niche format in our corner of competitive Pokémon has its own PL.

Now I’d like to voice my thoughts on what I consider to be non-negotiables regarding how metas are picked for the upcoming PL.

We should not have any repeat slots and we should have a current metagame slot. It felt like a missed opportunity to not have that last time out.

Moving on to metas I enjoyed and/or would like to see.

>Current meta deserves a slot. Besides the fact that ive found it to be very enjoyable and we’ve got a refreshing roster of Pokémon I feel. Currently it seems like there are a lot of styles you can play, anything goes. And we’ve already discovered unique techs like AV heatmor for Typhlosion-Hisui.

>July 23 being the first ever 35 meta has a strong case for having a slot. It’s received a lot of love recently through room tours and such, and newer players even building teams and searching for a game in matchmaking to play the meta which I think is really cool and a testament to the appeal of the meta.

>Dec 23 is iconic for three weathers but no abusers. It’s one of the only metas where I felt like there were completely different teams that could each be considered to be “standard meta” and optimal. There is sentimental value there having it be the first meta I played because of the retro tour, but I genuinely believe it’s one of the most unique and balanced metas there is, and is still so under explored.

>April 25 is generally considered as our most balanced ladder meta and is appreciated for its low power nature. Trust me I’m not suggesting it because I won the tour, I actually didn't find it very enjoyable to play, but it’s very balanced, has a lot of cooking potential, and has one of the lowest probabilities of rng influencing the outcome of your games.

>July 2025 I think being the bucket meta and having two bans makes it stand out as an iconic meta. We had a lot of higher level and borderline level mons for 35. I felt every phase of the meta was very enjoyable. However, I know that I’m in the minority when it comes to this meta, and there’s definitely a bias from me winning it. I won’t suggest for a slot but I think it does deserve some love.

>March 2025 is the best meta in 2025 imo. Every turn felt game defining, the meta itself promoted pro activity: anticipating the switch in from your opponent and switching your own check in to deal with their threat all the while positioning your breakers in Lucario, medicham, jynx, or set up sweepers in Scolipede, revavroom, drifblim, kabutops, etc. to get ahead of your opponent. The meta really felt like playing blitz chess yes it wasn’t just HO spam. We also saw unorthodox checks like Gourgeist and later on Gabite. And the meta felt like it was constantly being tweaked or changed during the ladder and in every stage of the tour.

>October 25 deserves a shout. Being a ladder meta earns it a spot and while it isn’t one of my favourite metas, I can’t deny that it was one that rewarded patient and methodical gameplay.

>Finally I’d like to speak on one of the most underrated metas ever, my precious June 24. I bet so many people here can’t even recall that meta but man it was so cool. It definitely has one of the best real mon:unmon ratio. Brought about a lot of unique teams with Psy Spam, balance, HO, BO, Semi-stall. We had 3 terrains in Psychic, grassy, and electric. AV Raticate-Alola was a real thing. SIRFETCHD was a real thing. We had Delphox alongside Indeedee and it didn’t even feel broken. Cyclizar could use shed tail and that wasn’t even a big issue as well (shed tail should still be banned). It felt like there was a number of breakers and sweepers to pick from that all had their pros and cons. I really feel like this meta deserves more love and recognition. If I could have complete control on one slot of 35PL, I would definitely give that to June 24.

>For our OM slot, 35 perfect wholeheartedly deserves that. Any 35 perfect meta works, im confident that d1 would be the one that people suggest most.

There’s probably others im missing but I’ve rambled on too much like always and I think I’ve mentioned the ones that needed mentioning.

yeah june 24 is a good shout

 

[Ember Celica]

>July 2025 I think being the bucket meta and having two bans makes it stand out as an iconic meta. We had a lot of higher level and borderline level mons for 35. I felt every phase of the meta was very enjoyable. However, I know that I’m in the minority when it comes to this meta, and there’s definitely a bias from me winning it. I won’t suggest for a slot but I think it does deserve some love.

Because July 25 was a bucket meta and also just... doesn't have 35 Pokemon, it's unfortunately already a relatively low priority for inclusion.

Now I’d like to voice my thoughts on what I consider to be non-negotiables regarding how metas are picked for the upcoming PL.

We should not have any repeat slots and we should have a current metagame slot. It felt like a missed opportunity to not have that last time out.

Doing absolutely zero repeat slots would be very difficult, assuming we want to aim for a comparable level of participation to last year's edition of the league. Reducing it down to the just 2 repeat slots already proposed on the list was a compromise with the principle of format diversity, and even that was exceedingly difficult because it meant the exclusion of excellent tiers such as August 2023, May 2024, and September 2024. Underrated metagames certainly have their place, but particularly in a premier league they ought to be bolstered by at least a few tried and tested metagames that can carry the weight of player signups and interest. Based on the notions in this thread though, it appears that we have the desire for at least 3 different types of leagues - Premier, Spotlight, and OM - but not quite the energy or capacity to bring all 3 to fruition. Until the day on which that can be accomplished arises, I think that attempting to have a little bit of something for everyone will be the best path forward.

First of all, I’d like to thank all the people involved from tier leaders, to moderators, to the playerbase, all of you for making 35 PL the success that it was and is. I love that this niche format in our corner of competitive Pokémon has its own PL.

Thank you!! And be sure to thank Essence (ThyUnitPossessCopium) a couple extra times too since this absolutely would not be happening without her and she's probably responsible for most of everything you liked about the initial list from the first post in this thread.

 

[mm]

On another note, some of the discussion I have seen in this thread has left me wondering whether people wish to see only the most popular and played tiers to be included, or if they wish to see primarily the lesser-played and underrepresented tiers included. From what I have gathered, some are of the opinion that D1 ought to be included in large part due to its playerbase, popularity, and development. As somebody who has been around this tier a long time, before even the inception of 35 Perfect, the ways in which D1 is discussed remind me heavily of the ways in which February and March of 2024 were discussed when those tiers were in more recent memory. RetroDude42 ThyUnitPossessCopium NoExistencia I think you were all there around that time you can probably also speak to what I’m talking about here. February and March 24 were nearly 2 years ago now, and so naturally newer formats have taken over in fervor of discussion. This does leave us with a contradiction though — February and March 24 are to not be in the league for the same reasons that D1 ought to be in the league. As many have pointed out recently, thematic consistency is quite important and in my view that extends to our justifications for deciding things of equal importance such as 35 PL playable tiers. To purposefully not feature the main 35 Pokes tiers with the most development, players, and competitive adoration while at the same time featuring an OM metagame that shares those features would be quite strange, to say the least. This also raises the question of if those expressing such opinions in this thread may be interested in a team-style tournament in which only OMs could be featured, one that would allow for even underrepresented 35 Perfect metagmes, for example, to be playable? I’ve been told before that the demand for such a thing does not exist, but given the tenor of discussion so far I do sincerely hope to see that notion proven to be quite incorrect.

The difference between D1 and February/March 24 is that February and March have already had multiple opportunities to be showcased in a Smogon tournament. February was featured in the previous 35PL and later received representation in NDAMPL, while March was not only included in the previous 35PL but also had an entire Swiss-style tournament dedicated specifically to it. These formats have had their moment in the spotlight in a forum tournament. D1, by contrast, has never been given the opportunity to be featured in a forum tournament; its competitive history exists entirely within Perfect 35's Discord server. Despite this, it has still managed to cultivate an active playerbase, as demonstrated by having one of the largest individual tournaments in Perfect and being in the ongoing Trios tour with twelve teams.

Including D1 in a Smogon tournament would give it the opportunity to reach a higher level of competitive play. While its community in Perfect 35’s Discord has shown strong engagement, the pool is limited to users who are already active in Perfect, and the pool of skilled players is even smaller. Including D1 in 35PL II would attract a wider range of skilled players who wouldn't play it otherwise, helping develop the metagame. This is the main thing setting D1 (and every new tier) apart from Feb/March, as both of those months have had plenty of time to develop with the amount of forum tours they've been included in.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to include a few metagames from last 35PL, but calling it contradictory to want D1 in 35PL II and not Feb/March 24 seems a bit disingenuous to me.


tldr, it's not contradictory. feb and march 24 had their turns, d1 hasn’t yet had one

 

[7ayakum]

Since I was tagged, might as well say my piece on this format discussion. I'll start off by saying the first PL was overall a success for us and showed how quickly 35 has grown as a community but I found issues with the actual format structure, which is gonna be my main thing I'm discussing in this post.


The first issue I had is that we didn't have a "Current Metagame slot". 35PL I started in March 2025 and ended in April 25 and idk, I've been playing teamtours for 3 generations now and since 35 Pokes is a gen 9 natdex tier, we don't really do oldgens. Our previous metas are akin to oldgens so what would be akin to "current gen?" That's right, the current month we're in's metagame. See any teamtour for any format, and there is minimum 3 slots for the current metagame of that format. 35 is in a unique position however, we have a LOT of metagames and I know it's certainly not fair for this to take up 3 slots but I want to see 1 slot for the current metagame because it just doesn't make sense for it to be excluded. This will also push metagame development and even when February 2026, everyone is gonna be in the same boat of you know, figuring out the metagame, which is fair for newcomers on the scene rather than have the mainers staying comfortable in their formats that have been around for 1-3 years now.


My second point today is the actual metagames. Now, I mentioned even at the time of 35PL I and when it was ending, I hope to not have repeating metas in the next PL and I'm here to state that again. I am still very perplexed to why an Ubers meta, which I'll be honest, NOBODY plays, got in over October 2024 last year. First change. The only OM that should even be considered is Perfect 35. Even though I was not active in 35 generally in 2025, Perfect is the only OM that actually has a tangible sub-playerbase and the metas are lowkey better than the majority of what we got in 2025 but again, that's just my subjectivity. They're designed to be as competitive as possible and aim to find balance compared to 35 formats that skew to the extreme (November 23). One slot should be dedicated to this.

To the actual main formats though, these are the formats we had in 35PL I:

• August 23
• February 24 x2
• March 24
• May 24
• September 24
• December 24
• February 25 x2
• Ubers April 24

For a total of 10 slots.

Here's the difficult thing about all of this now, what formats are getting in? As 35PL I had more of a focus on 2024 metas, I suggest 35PL II should have more focus on the metas of the previous year, and I'm saying this as a guy that liked like 3/12 metas in 2025. I'm already not a fan of the tentative metas list because we're seeing February and March 2024 again. Please retire these tiers, it's not everytime we have 2024 metas, we have to choose these two, October 24 certainly deserved its time, one of our only ladder metas. So I'm going to suggest a format template that we should follow, and fill it in what I would like to see. Ordering it from most recent to earliest meta.

• x2 Current Month
• x1 2025 Meta
• x1 2025 Meta
• x1 2025 Meta
• x1 2025 Meta
• x1 2024 Meta
• x1 2024 Meta
• x1 2023 Meta
• Perfect 35 (Don't care which, any would work)

My version would be:

• Current Month 2026
• Current Month 2026
• January 25
• April 25
• June 25
• October 25
• February 24 (if it has to be this out of the 2024 metas, so be it, BUT DO NOT DO TWO SLOTS PLEASE)
• October 24 (I know y'all hate Amoonguss but this is a high skill ceiling meta and needs its time to shine)
• December 23 (This is one of the best 35 metas oat and out of all the 2023 metas, this is the standout one)
• Perfect 35 C1/D1/A3

That's it from me! My last message to anyone reading is that you have to remember this is a community thing. I genuinely believe my format template is for the sake of the community and is the most fair and inclusive (I would've just included every meta I liked after all). I'm not directly accusing anyone of this, but, I feel like everyone just wants to spam the tier that they like all the time, without considering anything else, hence why we see a repeat of Feb/March 2024. I know they're well-liked, but it's time for other formats to shine, and from a spectator experience, it's just boring to see the same formats all the time, especially when it can be argued some formats are more competitive than others. I really do hope we consider the "current month" slot in all of this though.

Agree with pretty much everything you've said here. I forgot to mention Oct 24 in my post but thats a strong shout for a slot.

 

[Turtle12]

With regards to not repeating any metagames from last year, I understand the sentiment though unfortunately I don’t believe it to quite be realistic for the long-term health of this league or the tier overall. I would hate to see the time and effort players spent during the last PL mastering their chosen metagames not at all be rewarded in this one. While being good at 35 Pokes the overall tier is certainly a skill, even our very best players such as AReallyShiftyGuy BIGSHOT_ranger Dacruize 7ayakum Turtle12 have 35 Pokes tiers they are better at and ones they aren’t. As it stands right now, the only two formats from the previous premier league included as primary suggestions are March and February of 2024 which, if we are to be repeating formats, are among the strongest contenders to be repeated. February 2025 and August 2024 are included as backup tiers since we knew their primary counterparts were a little bit controversial and wanted to demonstrate our awareness of that. Repeating absolutely no tiers from the previous PL will also serve as a disincentive towards players whose main experience with 35 Pokes is through one of those tiers. 2025 saw the aforementioned two metagames featured in a retro tournament and the NDAMPL, both hosted here on the forums, and so I imagine players whose primary interaction with our tier is through its forum presence may appreciate seeing those forum-represented tiers in the forum-hosted premier league. Yes, those tiers see a lot of play and yes, there is much more to 35 Pokes than just what we have done before. But that isn’t cause to abandon the past with reckless disregard; there is something to be said for the value of a modicum of stability in the midst of an every-changing format. The classic metagames are classic for a reason — they are fun, well-developed, balanced and competitive. February 2024 only works as a best of 3, but March 24 is flexible enough to be either that or a bo1 or even something else entirely. @gcgoat has mentioned the idea of a February 2024 / March 2024 / April 2024 Bo3 both here and on the 35 Pokes discord, and having considered both the elegance of that solution and the fact that February 24 is not quite fit to be a bo1 tier, I’d like to propose a different spin on his idea:

Rotating slot - Feb 24 bo3 / Mar 24 bo3 in alternating weeks
Stable slot - April 24 / D1 / Losers’ Choice bo3

alternatively, I could see
D1 / Mar24 / April 24 working quite well and maybe Feb24 gets included somewhere else.

another option I like as an alternative to the Feb/March alternating slot is a bo3 of classics — Dec23/Feb24/Mar24 with the starting meta each week determined by the hosts and the proceeding metas being chosen by the loser of the previous game. This would avoid “locking” any players into Feb24 bo1, but thematically would make up for the Feb24 bo1 inclusion anyways. In fact, on the note of classics, August 2023 could be added to the list as a choice meta. This would be: Aug23/Dec23/Feb24/Mar24, starting meta determined each week by hosts, proceeding metas being losers’ choice. And if the losers’ choice aspect is not quite feasible in a PL settings, then I would be more than ok letting the hosts decide the order of metagames for this slot each week.

Those paying close attention to both this current post, my previous post, my ramblings in the discord, and my most recently submitted sample team may be noticing a pattern here — I would very much like to have my cake and eat it too. I have long been a fan of both rotating and bo3 formats, but I was hesitant to be the one to bring that up due to already having played a significant role is selecting the tiers included in this thread (although the current list is neither binding nor final). It has also been my experience that the joy of having a favored tier included in something such as the 35 PL can be just as well engendered by a stable bo1 slot as it can by inclusion in a multi-tier bo3 slot. More 35, more games, more tiers included, and more fun — it’s a win win.



Re: Current Meta Slot

Whoever can guess what I’m about to suggest gets a cookie. It won’t be a big cookie though, because I don’t think my suggestion is that hard to guess. If you really want a bigger cookie though, I guess we could consider it — ThyUnitPossessCopium will open up a cookie size discussion thread and you can make your thoughts known there. Baked goods aside, my suggestion is that we do a 2026 bo3 slot featuring the current metagame alongside the two most recent previous metagames. Assuming we begin play in March, this would mean that the format would be: March 26 / February 26 / January 26. Come April, it would be: April 26, March 26, February 26. This incentivizes players to keep up with the current metagame but also accounts for the player in the 2026 slot potentially not really clicking with one of them. I have rarely seen a player be equally competitively satisfied with 3 tiers in a row, and I feel it would be too much to ask of people to stake their team tournament experience on their enjoyment of metagames which don’t quite exist yet.

I have also seen the prospect of a PL-exclusive metagame brought up a few times and I’m warming up to it more than I thought I would. It would be really weird, unprecedented, strange even, and as I type those words out I find myself becoming even more excited at the prospect of trying this out. Strange, weird, and unprecedented are all good things as far as I’m concerned, particularly in a metagame where Heatmor of all things is currently both a defensive staple and a soft check to physically defensive Rotom-Wash (no, I promise you I’m not kidding). Particularly if we release the PL-exclusive meta prior to week 1, it would offer a great window into how a 35 Pokes metagame could develop given more than 30 days to do so upon its inception. Inception really would be the answer to all my woes right now, but much like Werewolves, Zombies, and the grass I’ve yet to touch, Inception doesn’t exist; the 35 PL does though, and I think that since we’re doing it for the second or third time we should have fun with it, make it a great big tournament that’s got something for every type of 35 player. That prospect may sound like a fantasy, but unlike Werewolves, Zombies, and all things that go bump in the night, it couldn’t be more real.

A rotating meta slot sounds like a lot of fun to be able to play more metas without creating more slots. However if players have to spend additional time to learn a new meta it seems unfair if that meta only gets 1/3 of a slot instead of a full slot. I would think the better solution would be to just create more slots.


Your idea to have a rotating meta slot gets around this issue though, if players are already playing current meta you don't need to do additional preperations, justifying a rotating meta that is only worth a third of other metas. Furthermore the same players do not necessarily play in the same slot every week, so even if a player does not like one of the rotating current metas a different player on the team can take up the torch for those weeks. This does not work if it is bo3 of 3 different metas though, I would support a rotating meta slot for current month but a slot that requires knowledge across multiple metas for a bo3 does not make sense for a pl when most players have lives outside of pokemon and do not have time to prep across many metas every week.

 

[Zetious]

My own personal thoughts are that the current starting list is mostly good but I would personally have done a few different things.

Feb 24 has had way to much inclusion in past events, trios, PL1 and NDAMPL. After playing the tier in everyone of those events, I also don't think it is deserving of that due to it being very top heavy and every team feels very similar cause of that. Other's thing this meta is balanced but I don't think seeing the same 4-5 mons constantly is proof of balance. After reading some more of these discussion posts, if a meta NEEDS to be Bo3 to work is it really that good of a meta? March 24 is at least a good enough meta to warrant is over representation.

June 25 is another meta I find odd to include. It felt like every game at a high level in the tour saw 4-5 of the same mons on every team. TTar, a Slowking, Tangrowth, Mimikyu, Quaquaval. I know some players like this format but I just don't see why it would be included over other months. August 25 is another balanced meta from 2025 that has a well defined meta but also has plenty of room for multiple team structures and the less used mons actually have use unlike June 25.

As far as OMs, I haven't played either but I think 35 VGC would be cool to include to give doubles players something to play but take my opinion with a grain of salt on that.

 

[presi]

Gonna write what I think of the discussions in this thread since I last read. Not gonna answer everything individually cus that sounds tedious.
I'd say porto and turtle make some great points. I think april makes a lot of sense for an inclusion and we've seen that with the consistent support for it in this thread and the discord. It's hard to deny it's popularity and justify not including it in my opinion. It fills some very big niches for an inclusion that not many other metas can fill. I have a hard time seeing how you could leave it out. I'd say the point is really hammered in about febs and marches leaving metas behind. as I said I could not find many problems with the initial list however the problem is always going to be opportunity cost. I think it's better to have a diverse PL than something safe to theoretically attract the biggest audience that leads to the same metagames getting stale over time. The good metas that could work together get left behind for something safe.

I also think turtle makes a good point when it comes to OMs. we only have so many slots. we could include many beloved oms like declc uu seniors in the past and even dare I say it one of the more popular oms in the formats history 1POKES because each of these is at least someones favorite meta. The problem however remains opportunity cost. This is a team tour with a limited selection of metas. Looking at things realistically 35VGC currently has a very small playerbase. You could make an argument for including every meta and that the players of each om will show to represent their tiers the problem is at the end of the day this is a PL focused mainly on the main format. Every meta will pull some sort of traction. The point is to have some of the very best diverse main metas and adding too many OMs takes away from that. I think there is a place for an OM Slot however. The point is to give wider representation to the tiers OMs. I think Perfect makes sense as one you can justify the most in this case. It is the om with the most tangible playerbase. Of course I am biased. i will not pretend to say I wouldn't like to see D1 in. but I think most OM players think like me. VGC definitely has its charms. As do many others. The problem is while these tiers have fans they see very little play comparatively. Perfect has consistently seen high amounts of play since its inception I would say largely thanks to its extremely dedicated founder. and a more standard 35 feeling enhancing what people like about the format. I think it would be interesting for these OMs to come back another year once their playerbase has had time to grow that way they are capable of showing their very best rather than trying to force artifical growth through the pl. It didn't work for seniors and I do not think it will work in this case.


As for what typhon has said in his first post I'm sorry but I can't help but feel like some of what was said is disingenuous. The concern is not with reducing main tier representation in the ideological sense. In fact I'd argue it's barely reducing main tier representation at all. Any good OM brings back to the main tier as we've had with perfect players trying out 35. It's in the fact of opportunity cost. as I said every meta could have a case made for it but the fact is every meta takes a slot. I do think VGC has its strengths again but it's very inactive. Perfect shows a more consistent high level side to things. The spirit of the tier is respected by both formats.

Comparing this to march and feb is a disingenuous move in my opinion. The argument is not for feb and march to be in this meta because they have the same feeling that's ridiculous. That's what makes them good. Thematic consistency is important in having a diverse pool so you need at least 1 meta like that. The thing about those metas is that we've seen them time and time and time again. D1 gives a fresh feeling to that while not oversaturating things. i think mmtaccos described this well so I will not reiterate

As for an OMpl I'd be fine w it. i think the other metas would need to cultivate more of a playerbase first tho.

in regards to the slot ideas. I think repeating metagames is a big mistake. pretty much every person in this thread has argued against it. my brain is getting sleepy now so I will start to adress points directly
>I would hate to see the time and effort players spent during the last PL mastering their chosen metagames not at all be rewarded in this one
While this is a nice sentiment. The point of 35pokes is by design that it is everchanging. i don't see why we have to cling to the past and constantly stick to the same metas in order to fulfill some sunk cost fallacy. Every tier makes people grow as players and every tier has something unique to offer. If we continued in this vain after a while the slots would no longer change and everything would get stale no matter how much you have high level play. if you never try anything new you do not grow. it's good to prioritise past metas and player expertise but for constantly the same stuff is misguided imo. These metas are great but they deserve a rest to come back fresh with interesting things instead of being milked dry

>Repeating absolutely no tiers from the previous PL will also serve as a disincentive towards players whose main experience with 35 Pokes is through one of those tiers.
I think mainly the view should be on mainers first and foremost not people who do not active play the tier. with that out of the way I will say all these players started from nothing last pl. Every player starts somewhere and at some point the logic bleeds over into what was said above. some people will only like 1 meta. That's fine. You can't constantly please everyone though and Ik many people would be interested to try new things.

>there is something to be said for the value of a modicum of stability in the midst of an every-changing format. The classic metagames are classic for a reason — they are fun, well-developed, balanced and competitive.
Yes they are good. we have other good metas however. they are classics and should stay as such to not be endlessly milked for all they're worth. You can have them be here more often but everywhere is too much. we have plenty of good classic metas. Why not give DEC23 a try instead

>February 2024 only works as a best of 3
never understood this. If this is going into the direction of saying some metas should be bo3 though I hard disagree. I think it's incredibly unrealistic to expect a team to prep 3 teams a week for one slot. even if it's only one or two. The amount of work that goes into a single team is insane. This will lower the standard of competition drastically.

Rotating slots I don't like. Players should not have to learn a new meta every week. 1 is enough. This is an enormous amount of work and some people do not like certain metas.

>Doing absolutely zero repeat slots would be very difficult, assuming we want to aim for a comparable level of participation to last year's edition of the league

People will come if the format is good Typhon. Do not try and please everyone or you will set yourself up for failure. People had little conception of what to have last year in 35PL and came anyway. Highlight the strengths of your tier and focus on a diverse well made pool.

I apologise if the latter part of my post is a bit rambly. i'm typing this after a long day and I'm tired. I hope my opinion is helpful and my points can be considered. i'm typing this bcs I care abt the direction of the tier and want to see the pl do well.

 

[MamboTND]

Hello everyone, MamboTND here!
As the creator and current Tier Leader of Perfect 35 and also the Graphic Designer for the monthly graphics, I want to emphasize a lot of things.

FIRST THINGS FIRST, I'm very grateful that Perfect 35 is even in consideration for the mainline 35PL at all. I also want to extend all the grace and thankfulness to the tournament organizers and tier leaders for putting this event together in the first place and allow for an OM to be included at all.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I want to address the many points that have been lifted since the beginning of this thread post and at the end make my suggestion for the best possible 35PL.
----------
1) BOTH 35 VGC and Perfect 35 deserve to be included, both with different reasons:
I'm reading varied opinions on the matter, like why only Perfect 35 should be considered, or why VGC should only be considered, or that both or neither should be considered... Let me lay it down like this. 35PL should embody the best that 35 Pokes has to offer, EVERY SINGLE TIME! What do I want to say with this? I believe that 35 Pokes Doubles or VGC or however they want to be officially named MUST absolutely be included into the 35 Pokes atmosphere and should be considered a standard. Just because the current active player base prefers mostly or only Singles it doesn't mean that we shouldn't strive to ignite interest in what has been missing for our community to grow exponentially, that is an environment where 35 Pokes is more of a way of gaming than just a subset of its community. 35 Pokes Doubles at the moment is at the cusp of entering its "Golden Age" and all it's been missing is a shine, a spotlight. We should be embracing our OMs and not pin them against each other.

35 Pokes Doubles can easily be its own thing just as Perfect 35 has been and it simply just needs the exposure. Pokemon, to the regular audience, is primarily a Doubles Format so demonstrating the potential it has using the 35 Pokes Spirit of randomly generating a list of allowed Pokemon should be the priority for the leaders of this community to spread and in turn make 35 Pokes a bigger deal than it already is. Just Imagine if this idea caught the eyes of someone like Aaron Cybertron Zang, or MoxieBoosted, or even Mr. VGC himself Wolfe Glick?! I'm sure they find 35 Pokes to be a compelling idea!

2) Now on the same vein of OMs being included into the 35PL, Perfect 35 is lucky that is even being included in the tentative roster of playable formats. 35 Pokes is at its core a Randomly Generated format, Perfect 35 in a way violates that spirit and turns the 35 into an Imagination and Viability Focused format that is created by the minds of few. Granted this means the formats are mostly balanced and provide very unique experiences that is almost impossible with randomly generated lists, but it also means that the Pokemon chosen may still not appeal to everyone. With all that said, I want to emphasize that both A3 and D1 would be great candidates for this year's 35PL and obviously the fanfare is behind D1 for being potentially the best format 35 Pokes has to experience! Granted, the problem with D1 is it's NFE nature which would scream confusion much like Seniors did last year's 35PL. Although I think D1 will be more appealing than Seniors just for the nature of NFE being charming little guys and No Eviolite allowing the format not taking a stale bulky war approach and instead a healthy environment for different play styles. D1 is unique and is THE one we would want to truly showcase how great Perfect 35 can be! It creates very thrilling matches to spectate, has creative team building, matches never feel boring or predictable, and is very much suited to a Bo1 format whereas A3 is more suited for Bo3. In the end if only 1, between A3 or D1, makes it in I will personally be happy that we were featured at all.
I will drop the graphics for both formats so anyone lost in this A3 and D1 talk has a better understanding of what's being discussed:
D1

A3


3) I think I agree with having a format unique to 35PL, it sounds exciting, would give firsthand experience to those who are new to 35 Pokes, and gives the old dogs something new to explore. I'm totally on board, just give me time to make the graphic ahead of time if we do this please p.p

4) Having 2x current months slots could become an easy inclusion for all 35PLs, I'm on board with this idea, though I don't think is all that necessary but it definitely builds consistency with this event, one that should focus on everything that makes 35 Pokes great.

5) The topic of repeating months from last year's PL is a hot topic that I think comes down to a pragmatic approach.
Feb24 and March24 are the most balanced formats, the ones that are exemplary to what 35 Pokes is capable of generating. Much like D1 for Perfect 35, those two months are best introductions to new players, Skilled and Noob players alike. For the same reason I would highlight why D1 is the best Perfect 35 has to offer, February 24 and March 24 are simply the best formats to appeal to newcomers. So in my opinion they should totally be included. Now how do we go about it? I would say alternate between the two every year, or at the very least don't make either of them a 2x slot format. Now I get the aspect of it being boring for old dogs to play February 24 for like the 5th time, I think this point is only valid when we make MOST of the tournament just repeated formats. I believe using just 2 Slots for Legacy/Classic formats to be repeated every 35PL.

6) Wow is taking more than an hour to type this out on the phone and making sure I'm not making typos or missing the points I'm trying to deliver... phew.... Anyways... Here are my suggestion on what to do with the 10 Slots.

Approach #1:

1. 2x Current Month
2. Classic/Defining Month (March 24)
3. Classic/Defining Month (December 23)
4. 35PL Exclusive Format (Randomly Generated just for this tour)
5. Old Non-Repeated Months (July23-Dec24 Era)
6. Top 2025-26 Month
7. Top 2025-26 Month
8. Top 2025-26 Month or Perfect 35
9. Best VGC Month

Approach #2:

1. Current Month
2. Classic/Defining Month (March 24)
3. Classic/Defining Month (December 23)
4. 35PL Exclusive Format (Randomly Generated just for this tour)
5. Old Non-Repeated Months (July23-Dec24 Era)
6. Top 2025-26 Month
7. Top 2025-26 Month
8. Top 2025-26 Month
9. Perfect 35
10. Best VGC Month

Now with all that said, if I can have my cake and eat it too I would do the following list of metas/months... Maybe I'll redo a post just explain why I chose these but I'm very tired after typing 2000 words xD
Also yes I am aware is different from my suggestion above.

• 2x Classic/Legacy Months (March24 and December23)
• 2x 35PL Exclusive Format Generated for this tour only
• 2x Old Non-Repeated Months (pick any two; October-B, April 24, June24, October24)
• 2x Top Last Year Months (pick any two; April25, May25, September25, or October25)
• 2x OMs (D1 and Whatever VGC leaders thinks best represents their tier)

OR

• 1x Current Month
• 2x Classic/Legacy Months (March24 and December23)
• 1x 35PL Exclusive Format Generated for this tour only
• 2x Old Non-Repeated Months (pick any two; October-B, April 24, June24, October24)
• 2x Top Last Year Months (pick any two; April25, May25, September25, or October25)
• 2x OMs (D1 and Whatever VGC leaders thinks best represents their tier)

Aight, I'm tired... Hopefully this post does some good and maybe shift any negative sentiment and hopefully allow for the best 35 Pokes showcase possible!

 

[OceanicGamer]

Wanted to step into this convo and put out one of my fav months

OCTOBER 2024

Many people will know this as one of the months 35 got an official ladder, and if I am not mistaken this was the first month that an official ladder was given. Maybe I am biased as to why I like this meta so much, b/c I enjoyed the ladder and reached Finals in this monthly tour but I think this is a great addition to the PL. First of all, the meta is well balanced! Bisharp I still think should have been banned but it can/was checked by Emboar, Sandaconda and Stunfisk. Blastoise was checked by said Bisharp, as well as SpDef Dundunspace/Sylveon. Second, this month doesn't have that many bad Pokemon. On the official VR of this month, this month only had 6 Pokemon that were below B-, which is small compared to average of like 10. And even these "bad Pokemon" had niches (AV Guzzlord was a decent check to Blastoise via DTail as well as the many Ghosts, Klingklang devasted weakened teams, arguably same level/better than Bisharp, Ninjask with Choice Band can be a real nuisance, forcing in Sandaconda some times just to bring in something like Porygon, Perrserker was a decent Sylveon destroyer that could force Sandaconda/Emboar to come in, or do over 50 via a Choice Band.) 3rd, and my final point, is that a multitude of geniune playstyles were viable. Most commonly you would be Bisharp/Sylveon/Sandaconda Offense, but stuff like Vika Webs, Lead Accelgor HO, Specs PZ Offense and Rhydon/Dudunsparce BO were all viable. Considering all these factors, I think October 2024 would be an amazing addition.

On the subject on months that were already included in previous tours, I do agree that it should be kept to a minimum. I understand that it would be difficult to do so due to activity, but if I am being honest continuing to add them will only exacerbate this issue. Perhaps a rotating slot with these months are in order, but I think we should try to continue bringing in new months.

 

[tryingtolearnstall]

I feel like preferences on months are largely subjective, I don't think the inclusion or exclusion of any one month is going to make or break the tournament. I personally like August 2024, along with any other month that includes Vanilluxe.

 

[bumboclaat]

Figured it was worth chiming in on a few broader / bigger picture things. I don't plan to talk about specific metagames as I don't have knowledge or experience in any of them. Full disclosure, the extent of my 35 Pokes experience is 1 game in NDAMPL and a lot of testing with teammates afterwards.

Re: 'Current Metas'

Reading through this thread the idea of current metagames being considered is surprising. That is to say nothing of the people advocating for current metagames to automatically secure a slot. The reason why this thread is up now and not a week or two before manager signups as in most tours is that the council apparently needs time to ensure that the resources are updated and meet certain standards. Given that, I don't see how a 'current metagame' (any 2026 month) is compatible with that. If it takes a some peroid of time to ensure that quality standards are met I don't see how metagames that don't even exist when the format discussion thread is posted can be considered. This is also without touching on the identity of 35 Pokes makes deciding on slots exceedingly difficult relative to other tours. There are only 10(?) slots and each year brings 12 new metagames competing for them on top of popular past formats that arguably deserve a slot as well. There are going to be a lot of complaints regardless of what is eventually chosen and dedicating one or multiple slots to unknown metagames exacerbates this significantly. This is probably something 35 Pokes should decide on and have it apply to future editions of 35PL.

Re: OMs + Doubles

I don't see any reason why these should be automatically included or excluded. They should be considered, but it is up to the TLs of these tiers to present their case. There are some things happening behind the scenes to give these tiers more tour respresentation, but that is in the early stages of development and there isn't anything to share on that front. I don't know enough about the 35 Pokes community / ecosystem to examine the validity of the claims about these OMs, but presumably the 35 Pokes leaders do and they're the ones that decide on the slots anyways. As an outsider, it'd be cool to have them, should the playerbase exist to provide a quality pool. That being said, there are a lot of formats competing for a very limited number of slots so it isn't the end of the world if they are not included so long as the formats that are included can be justified. This makes it difficult to justify automatically including perfect or vgc in my eyes unless I am wholly misunderstanding something. Personally, it'd be cool to have (at least) one.

Re: 'Repeat' Slots

The popularity of banning repeat slots is something I find baffling. That isn't to say that a specific month should get a slot for eternity, but at the end of the day 35PL is 'supposed' to represent the best of the of the best and that includes formats. Whilst not completely random, part of the appeal of 35 Pokes is you never know what you're going to be every month and I'm sure some months are considered absolute stinkers by the majority of the playerbase. Some months are certainly better than others and if particular months are considered a cut above the rest by wide swaths of the playerbase then they probably should have outsized tour representation. It isn't as though a format is relegated to the dustbin of history the moment the calendar turns a page so I don't see why that mentality should apply to tour slots. It isn't as though 8/10 slots will forever be the same.

Re: 'Rotating' Slots

This isn't something that should be on the table and should be a non starter imo for the reasons listed above. Players should know what they're signing up for and adds an unreasonable amount of extra work for fake representation. Having a handful of games that might not even happen isn't real representation for these formats and is a disservice to the people that enjoy them. A seperate team tour for formats that didn't make it into PL is the way to go imo if there is real demmand for a ton of formats that don't end up being included. A Bo3 slot with known formats is great if there is a desire for that, but that is very different from rotating slots.

 

[GC]

would like to add that if we don't end up going with the bo3 idea, I agree that we should avoid repeat metas from last year if possible.

I also agree with mambo that vgc deserves a slot just as much as Perfect despite its smaller playerbase, last year we had many people sign up who weren't previously part of the community and I can't imagine this year will be any different, this is how communities grow and prosper. 35 is primarily a singles format but that doesn't mean we should be completely closed off to doubles/vgc representation, SCL is a prime example of a singles-focused tour that still includes a DOU slot.

 

[GC]

bumboclaat regarding your repeat metas point, I think the main reason people are against this is the idea of having metas present in the last PL also being present in the one directly following. March24 is my favorite month meta of all time, but there is only so much you can do with 35 pokemon and I feel like having it occupy an entire slot would be a waste since there is very little that hasn't already been discovered, especially since it got an entire forum tour last summer. Next year I would be more inclined to have a slot for it, but for now I like the idea of trying to keep things fresh.