Just hopping by to say that LO Melmetal is a goddamn cheat code for easy wins, bro is absolutely cracked in this meta
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Pokemon Legends: Z-A Combat/PVP Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Count Bleck
- Start date
The EVs cuts it from 4.7s cooldown to a 4.55s cooldown. Probs better reinvesting as 252 HP and 4 in Def or SpD. A fully speed invested starmie cuts the cooldown to 3.74s, but is it worth it when everything else is still fairly tanky, and you have other moves you can click in that time frame?
one of the only mons I’ve been thinking about in terms of this is morpeko
I’ve been trying it but it just feels bleh but like so close to being good
I was thinking about mixed with tbolt or maybe since it’s a sasher running some speed or both of the above but i don’t know the good thresholds
I’ve been trying it but it just feels bleh but like so close to being good
I was thinking about mixed with tbolt or maybe since it’s a sasher running some speed or both of the above but i don’t know the good thresholds
So this was what I used to climb all the way to Rank A in ladder. While I did change moves a couple of times, the team members stayed the same and I'm proud of myself for sticking to my guns for the whole climb.
Garchomp (M) @ Focus Sash
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
Normally I'd just leave a simple sentence and move on, but truth be told Garchomp is actually a placeholder. As of the time of writing this, I have yet to encounter and capture Latios (who would be a better option for this slot) so I had to make due with Garchomp. He still did Chomp things, but I really wished I managed to get Latios. Still working on getting it in fact at the time of writing this post.
Darkrai @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Dark Void
- Ice Beam
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
Darkrai was something I was really excited to try out when Season rules were released. I will admit he's not the best Mythical and there are better options for this slot, like Meloetta, but I still wanted to play around with Darkrai as he's one of my favorites. I tried out Calm Mind over Nasty Plot and Dark Pulse over Dark Void, but I found the most success with this setup. Dark Void in particular is pretty funny to fire into brawls thanks to its massive AoE when you Plus it. In fact, I found myself only using it Plus because it was at its best. It's true that the 60 BP made it a little lackluster, but Nasty Plot + Life Orb helped make up for it. Focus Blast was original Psychic, but I found having Steel coverage to be very useful (especially since originally I found myself struggling against Lucarios).
Melmetal @ Assault Vest
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
- Double Iron Bash
I wanted another good physical attacker for the team, as I don't like running more than one ranged fighter (especially a sniper). Melmetal fit in perfectly here, as it covered up the Fairy weakness shared by Garchomp and Darkrai and provided me a tanky mon that gave me an easy way to kill off Gardevoirs roaming the ladder. This thing is a chonk for sure. I was surprised at how well it soaked up hits from even Super Effective moves like Earthquake. I originally had Heavy Slam over one of the elemental punches to provided a sort of closing option, but I opted for the coverage as Double Iron Bash already has ridiculous range (especially when Plus).
Team Weaknesses:
While the general Fighting weakness it prominant, Marshadow in particular gives me the most grief due to Spectrial Thief. I even tried running Shadow Claw over Stone Edge on Chomp to help miligate this, but it failed in practice because it lacked power and it had a slow animation. Thankfully, I rarely ran into Marshadow on the climb so it wasn't that big of an issue.
Opposing Garchomp is a pain to deal with unless I played right. Ironically enough, I found Darkrai being my best answer to them thanks to Ice Beam as it was able to eat up Dragon Rushes and Earthquakes and a lot of them weren't Sashed so Ice Beam was a OHKO. Still, credit where its due.
Darkrai's worst nightmare, this thing would give me a lot of trouble if Melmetal wasn't out as its high physical defense allowed it to eat Garchomp's attacks quite well. First Impression is also a nuisance, though thankfully I didn't run into the issue on the climb.
And that's my team. Hope you all enjoy it.
Garchomp (M) @ Focus Sash
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
Normally I'd just leave a simple sentence and move on, but truth be told Garchomp is actually a placeholder. As of the time of writing this, I have yet to encounter and capture Latios (who would be a better option for this slot) so I had to make due with Garchomp. He still did Chomp things, but I really wished I managed to get Latios. Still working on getting it in fact at the time of writing this post.
Darkrai @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Dark Void
- Ice Beam
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
Darkrai was something I was really excited to try out when Season rules were released. I will admit he's not the best Mythical and there are better options for this slot, like Meloetta, but I still wanted to play around with Darkrai as he's one of my favorites. I tried out Calm Mind over Nasty Plot and Dark Pulse over Dark Void, but I found the most success with this setup. Dark Void in particular is pretty funny to fire into brawls thanks to its massive AoE when you Plus it. In fact, I found myself only using it Plus because it was at its best. It's true that the 60 BP made it a little lackluster, but Nasty Plot + Life Orb helped make up for it. Focus Blast was original Psychic, but I found having Steel coverage to be very useful (especially since originally I found myself struggling against Lucarios).
Melmetal @ Assault Vest
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
- Double Iron Bash
I wanted another good physical attacker for the team, as I don't like running more than one ranged fighter (especially a sniper). Melmetal fit in perfectly here, as it covered up the Fairy weakness shared by Garchomp and Darkrai and provided me a tanky mon that gave me an easy way to kill off Gardevoirs roaming the ladder. This thing is a chonk for sure. I was surprised at how well it soaked up hits from even Super Effective moves like Earthquake. I originally had Heavy Slam over one of the elemental punches to provided a sort of closing option, but I opted for the coverage as Double Iron Bash already has ridiculous range (especially when Plus).
Team Weaknesses:
While the general Fighting weakness it prominant, Marshadow in particular gives me the most grief due to Spectrial Thief. I even tried running Shadow Claw over Stone Edge on Chomp to help miligate this, but it failed in practice because it lacked power and it had a slow animation. Thankfully, I rarely ran into Marshadow on the climb so it wasn't that big of an issue.
Opposing Garchomp is a pain to deal with unless I played right. Ironically enough, I found Darkrai being my best answer to them thanks to Ice Beam as it was able to eat up Dragon Rushes and Earthquakes and a lot of them weren't Sashed so Ice Beam was a OHKO. Still, credit where its due.
Darkrai's worst nightmare, this thing would give me a lot of trouble if Melmetal wasn't out as its high physical defense allowed it to eat Garchomp's attacks quite well. First Impression is also a nuisance, though thankfully I didn't run into the issue on the climb.
And that's my team. Hope you all enjoy it.
Today, I wanted to talk about a Pokemon that essentially all of us had written off. It was initially seen as food for Golisopod, being 4x weak to First Impression, which we already know is a kill stealing machine, but the nail in the coffin was that upon every move use, this Pokemon would pause for almost a full second before actually casting. Today, we're talking about...
First, lets take a second to look at what casting on Hoopa Unbound normally looks like.
You can see in this clip that Hoopa Unbound takes half a second to unfurl its arms out first, then casting, only to refurl its arms back. This slight pause will constantly give you a massive disadvantage against other opponents, despite your massive offensive stats, and will be slow to the punch on every single engagement. We obviously have every reason to write this Pokemon off, despite its sheer stats. In a pinch, it can't react in time and get the kills you need it to, and is stuck stuttering every single cast, so why bother using it?
Because you can circumvent it entirely. Introducing: actually spacing with your ranged casters! This interaction has been in the game this entire time, it's a tiny micro-optimization you can do on ranged casters which allows them to cast slightly earlier and faster. The general logic is, when you used a ranged attack, your Pokemon will be to the top right of the direction you're facing. If they happen to already be there, they don't have to enter the whole rigmarole of walking to the correct position, they are already there, and as such, they cast and fire their move instantly. It was already good tech to practice, and most strong players did it subconsciously without even thinking about it. It works the same way for Hoopa Unbound too, only this time, you also skip the arms unfurling animation, allowing it to cast instantly as well. This is a tech that is required to make it operable, and you can now actually explore the sheer power behind this Pokemon.
Some fun calcs for you:
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psychic+ vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 183-216 (88.4 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psychic+ vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 191-225 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury+ vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Armarouge: 205-255 (106.7 - 132.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury+ vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 205-255 (105.6 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury+ vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 255-315 (123.1 - 152.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Focus Blast+ vs. 108 HP / 148 SpD Assault Vest Melmetal: 249-295 (111.1 - 131.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And all it took was a little bit of positioning. For what it's worth, many of us in the Discord server have already put this Pokemon to the test, and can consistently get this to work on ranked matches, it simply just takes a bit of practicing. If you never used this tech before on your ranged casters, now's a good time to put it into practice, as it quite literally is required for Hoopa Unbound.
Now, for the set:
Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
EVs: 92 HP / 164 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Psychic
- Hyperspace Fury
- Thunderbolt / Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
Credit to ThatOneApple for this spread, which lets you live a Dragon Rush+ from a +1 Garchomp (not mega), as well as just offering some general physical bulk and not sacrificing any power for it. I urge you all to actually give this Pokemon a go, because its power is quite unhinged.
I want to give a massive shoutout to Detrik in the Smogon Battle Club Discord server for putting the two and two together and discovering that using the ranged caster tech on Hoopa Unbound completely circumvents its issues. Without this discovery, this Pokemon would forever remain unranked.
First, lets take a second to look at what casting on Hoopa Unbound normally looks like.
You can see in this clip that Hoopa Unbound takes half a second to unfurl its arms out first, then casting, only to refurl its arms back. This slight pause will constantly give you a massive disadvantage against other opponents, despite your massive offensive stats, and will be slow to the punch on every single engagement. We obviously have every reason to write this Pokemon off, despite its sheer stats. In a pinch, it can't react in time and get the kills you need it to, and is stuck stuttering every single cast, so why bother using it?
Because you can circumvent it entirely. Introducing: actually spacing with your ranged casters! This interaction has been in the game this entire time, it's a tiny micro-optimization you can do on ranged casters which allows them to cast slightly earlier and faster. The general logic is, when you used a ranged attack, your Pokemon will be to the top right of the direction you're facing. If they happen to already be there, they don't have to enter the whole rigmarole of walking to the correct position, they are already there, and as such, they cast and fire their move instantly. It was already good tech to practice, and most strong players did it subconsciously without even thinking about it. It works the same way for Hoopa Unbound too, only this time, you also skip the arms unfurling animation, allowing it to cast instantly as well. This is a tech that is required to make it operable, and you can now actually explore the sheer power behind this Pokemon.
Some fun calcs for you:
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psychic+ vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 183-216 (88.4 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psychic+ vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 191-225 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury+ vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Armarouge: 205-255 (106.7 - 132.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury+ vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 205-255 (105.6 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury+ vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 255-315 (123.1 - 152.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Focus Blast+ vs. 108 HP / 148 SpD Assault Vest Melmetal: 249-295 (111.1 - 131.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And all it took was a little bit of positioning. For what it's worth, many of us in the Discord server have already put this Pokemon to the test, and can consistently get this to work on ranked matches, it simply just takes a bit of practicing. If you never used this tech before on your ranged casters, now's a good time to put it into practice, as it quite literally is required for Hoopa Unbound.
Now, for the set:
Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
EVs: 92 HP / 164 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Psychic
- Hyperspace Fury
- Thunderbolt / Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
Credit to ThatOneApple for this spread, which lets you live a Dragon Rush+ from a +1 Garchomp (not mega), as well as just offering some general physical bulk and not sacrificing any power for it. I urge you all to actually give this Pokemon a go, because its power is quite unhinged.
I want to give a massive shoutout to Detrik in the Smogon Battle Club Discord server for putting the two and two together and discovering that using the ranged caster tech on Hoopa Unbound completely circumvents its issues. Without this discovery, this Pokemon would forever remain unranked.
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I just hit rank A today. I was in first place for a surprisingly high number of my matches, too! I wasn't expecting that with the team that I used, but I'm very happy to be proven wrong. I made some minor adjustments to the team I shared before, though the literal star of the show is still the same: Starmie.
Starmie @ Expert Belt
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Meteor Beam
I ended up using Starmie as my lead most of the time. Meteor Beam puts in serious work! We all know it's a powerful sniping move. It gave Starmie exactly what it needed: stat boosting! Starmie has excellent coverage, which made it easy to constantly get super effective hits. Expert Belt definitely helped out there! It may not have the raw nuking power to OHKO the tankiest threats, but I definitely recommend not underestimating SpongeBob's best friend.
Starmie was my MVP in most of my games.
I imagine Keldeo would do similarly well, though it lacks Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt puts in a lot of work! It also has to rely on Calm Mind for boosts, which doesn't last as long as Meteor Beam. I would've tried it in my climb to rank A if I had it.
Garchomp (Alpha) @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Rush
- Stone Edge/Fire Fang/Thunder Fang
- Swords Dance
Should Life Orb have been replaced with Focus Sash or Yache Berry? Probably. Did Life Orb still put in a lot of work? Absolutely!
I really don't like Stone Edge in this game. It's too easy to dodge. When it hits, though? I still often felt like I needed Fire Fang or Thunder Fang...
I want to give Dual Chop another shot. I tried it for a little while during this run and wasn't super impressed, but it charges more quickly than Dragon Rush, isn't too much weaker, and can secure OHKOs past Focus Sashes. Needing to hit twice and not being able to use it to jump onto an opposing 'Mon does make it feel like a potential waste of a slot, though.
Garchomp was the weakest member of the team.
Magearna @ Magearnite
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Steel Beam
- Fleur Cannon
- Focus Blast/Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
I usually kept Magearna waiting until I was ready to mega evolve it. It did still come in handy from time to time without that, though. I didn't like relying on Fleur Cannon for Fairy damage, but without Moonblast, Magearna really has no other reliable options. Dazzling Gleam just doesn't cut it with how easy it is to dodge. I don't like that Fleur Cannon drops Magearna's SpA, but Magearna was mainly there to be a missile launcher.
There were plenty of times where I felt like Magearna had major 4MSS. I wanted to have both Focus Blast and Thunderbolt. I just didn't have room. Thankfully, +1 Steel Beam and +1 Fleur Cannon from Mega Magearna OHKOd many things that they shouldn't have been able to scratch. Resistances? Nah. Steel Beam and Fleur Cannon don't care.
I considered trying Diancie out since it gets Meteor Beam, Moonblast, and Earth Power. It lacks immediate power, but it looks like it would've performed relatively similarly to Magearna on paper after mega evolving. Rock is a much worse type than Steel, though. Base 50 HP also really sucks.
Overall, this was a fun team to use and a great climb to rank A!
Starmie @ Expert Belt
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Meteor Beam
I ended up using Starmie as my lead most of the time. Meteor Beam puts in serious work! We all know it's a powerful sniping move. It gave Starmie exactly what it needed: stat boosting! Starmie has excellent coverage, which made it easy to constantly get super effective hits. Expert Belt definitely helped out there! It may not have the raw nuking power to OHKO the tankiest threats, but I definitely recommend not underestimating SpongeBob's best friend.
Starmie was my MVP in most of my games.
I imagine Keldeo would do similarly well, though it lacks Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt puts in a lot of work! It also has to rely on Calm Mind for boosts, which doesn't last as long as Meteor Beam. I would've tried it in my climb to rank A if I had it.
Garchomp (Alpha) @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Rush
- Stone Edge/Fire Fang/Thunder Fang
- Swords Dance
Should Life Orb have been replaced with Focus Sash or Yache Berry? Probably. Did Life Orb still put in a lot of work? Absolutely!
I really don't like Stone Edge in this game. It's too easy to dodge. When it hits, though? I still often felt like I needed Fire Fang or Thunder Fang...
I want to give Dual Chop another shot. I tried it for a little while during this run and wasn't super impressed, but it charges more quickly than Dragon Rush, isn't too much weaker, and can secure OHKOs past Focus Sashes. Needing to hit twice and not being able to use it to jump onto an opposing 'Mon does make it feel like a potential waste of a slot, though.
Garchomp was the weakest member of the team.
Magearna @ Magearnite
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Steel Beam
- Fleur Cannon
- Focus Blast/Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
I usually kept Magearna waiting until I was ready to mega evolve it. It did still come in handy from time to time without that, though. I didn't like relying on Fleur Cannon for Fairy damage, but without Moonblast, Magearna really has no other reliable options. Dazzling Gleam just doesn't cut it with how easy it is to dodge. I don't like that Fleur Cannon drops Magearna's SpA, but Magearna was mainly there to be a missile launcher.
There were plenty of times where I felt like Magearna had major 4MSS. I wanted to have both Focus Blast and Thunderbolt. I just didn't have room. Thankfully, +1 Steel Beam and +1 Fleur Cannon from Mega Magearna OHKOd many things that they shouldn't have been able to scratch. Resistances? Nah. Steel Beam and Fleur Cannon don't care.
I considered trying Diancie out since it gets Meteor Beam, Moonblast, and Earth Power. It lacks immediate power, but it looks like it would've performed relatively similarly to Magearna on paper after mega evolving. Rock is a much worse type than Steel, though. Base 50 HP also really sucks.
Overall, this was a fun team to use and a great climb to rank A!
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Season 6 has been announced officially and legalizes the Weather Trio and returns the 1 Restricted limit per team, but more importantly excludes Mythicals from the Restricted list, with your Restricteds being:
Xerneas
Yveltal
Zygarde
Mewtwo
Kyogre
Groudon
Rayquaza
This seems to imply Mythicals from this season have a real shot of being solid partners for your Restricteds without actually eating into your Restricted slot!
(This is based off of both Serebii's postings, as well as the news posted in game, detailing "Only one of the following special Pokemon may be included on your team:", as well as stating Lumiose Pokedex 001-232 are legal, as well as Hyperspace Pokedex 001-132 are legal. If this somehow ages poorly and this isn't true then oops)
Ugh... I can't be the only one dreading this.
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Watchog Giga Impact+ vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza-Mega on a critical hit: 258-303 (121.6 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Flip a coin gecko boy
FLIP THAT COIN MOTHERFUCKER
Flip a coin gecko boy
FLIP THAT COIN MOTHERFUCKER
aright guys who's ready to see a bunch of funny clips propagating online consisting mainly of a small hitbox pokemon neatly dodging a close range origin pulse
Been procrastinating playing for a while, but for the first time since season 1 i decided to grind my way up to A Rank. Not dealing with Xerneas was really nice. Idk if the team was particularly unconventional, but I decided to put my hopes into Mega Staraptor, here are my thoughts on it.
First off, teammates were Life Orb SD/EQ/Dragon Rush/Poison Jab Garchomp and Magnet Screens/Charge/Thunderbolt Ampharos, and Staraptor was Bulk Up/Brave Bird/Close Combat/Blaze Kick. Blaze Kick was there for Gholdengo insurance and because I couldn't think of a better fourth move, EVs were standard max HP/Attack 4 Defense
Actual thoughts, team was definitely weak to some things, Magearna especially, and Staraptor is very much a glass cannon, but god it sometimes just goes on a rampage and gets me 4 or 5 KOs in a single life. Those times are what I live for. Does best as a late game cleaner, taking low hp enemies with large hitbox moves like CC and Brave Bird. Blaze Kick is the fast move on the set, but I didn't find myself clicking it that often, mostly against Magearna and Gholdengo, and the hitbox left a little to be desired. Garchomp was Garchomp, I'm sure you all know what that does, and Ampharos was mostly a setup mon, putting up the screens and generating mega charge to lead into Staraptor.
First off, teammates were Life Orb SD/EQ/Dragon Rush/Poison Jab Garchomp and Magnet Screens/Charge/Thunderbolt Ampharos, and Staraptor was Bulk Up/Brave Bird/Close Combat/Blaze Kick. Blaze Kick was there for Gholdengo insurance and because I couldn't think of a better fourth move, EVs were standard max HP/Attack 4 Defense
Actual thoughts, team was definitely weak to some things, Magearna especially, and Staraptor is very much a glass cannon, but god it sometimes just goes on a rampage and gets me 4 or 5 KOs in a single life. Those times are what I live for. Does best as a late game cleaner, taking low hp enemies with large hitbox moves like CC and Brave Bird. Blaze Kick is the fast move on the set, but I didn't find myself clicking it that often, mostly against Magearna and Gholdengo, and the hitbox left a little to be desired. Garchomp was Garchomp, I'm sure you all know what that does, and Ampharos was mostly a setup mon, putting up the screens and generating mega charge to lead into Staraptor.
iirc they immediately undergo Primal Reversion the first time they're sent out in battle and finished their roaring animations. They also don't automatically use Plus Moves while continually depleting the Mega gauge, unlike regular Mega Evolutions.
There has been some testing in the Discord server where it's possible for them to immediately revert while bypassing their entrance animations, but it seems unreliable atm.
There has been some testing in the Discord server where it's possible for them to immediately revert while bypassing their entrance animations, but it seems unreliable atm.