Just hopping by to say that LO Melmetal is a goddamn cheat code for easy wins, bro is absolutely cracked in this meta
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Pokemon Legends: Z-A Combat/PVP Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Count Bleck
- Start date
The EVs cuts it from 4.7s cooldown to a 4.55s cooldown. Probs better reinvesting as 252 HP and 4 in Def or SpD. A fully speed invested starmie cuts the cooldown to 3.74s, but is it worth it when everything else is still fairly tanky, and you have other moves you can click in that time frame?
one of the only mons I’ve been thinking about in terms of this is morpeko
I’ve been trying it but it just feels bleh but like so close to being good
I was thinking about mixed with tbolt or maybe since it’s a sasher running some speed or both of the above but i don’t know the good thresholds
I’ve been trying it but it just feels bleh but like so close to being good
I was thinking about mixed with tbolt or maybe since it’s a sasher running some speed or both of the above but i don’t know the good thresholds
So this was what I used to climb all the way to Rank A in ladder. While I did change moves a couple of times, the team members stayed the same and I'm proud of myself for sticking to my guns for the whole climb.
Garchomp (M) @ Focus Sash
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
Normally I'd just leave a simple sentence and move on, but truth be told Garchomp is actually a placeholder. As of the time of writing this, I have yet to encounter and capture Latios (who would be a better option for this slot) so I had to make due with Garchomp. He still did Chomp things, but I really wished I managed to get Latios. Still working on getting it in fact at the time of writing this post.
Darkrai @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Dark Void
- Ice Beam
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
Darkrai was something I was really excited to try out when Season rules were released. I will admit he's not the best Mythical and there are better options for this slot, like Meloetta, but I still wanted to play around with Darkrai as he's one of my favorites. I tried out Calm Mind over Nasty Plot and Dark Pulse over Dark Void, but I found the most success with this setup. Dark Void in particular is pretty funny to fire into brawls thanks to its massive AoE when you Plus it. In fact, I found myself only using it Plus because it was at its best. It's true that the 60 BP made it a little lackluster, but Nasty Plot + Life Orb helped make up for it. Focus Blast was original Psychic, but I found having Steel coverage to be very useful (especially since originally I found myself struggling against Lucarios).
Melmetal @ Assault Vest
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
- Double Iron Bash
I wanted another good physical attacker for the team, as I don't like running more than one ranged fighter (especially a sniper). Melmetal fit in perfectly here, as it covered up the Fairy weakness shared by Garchomp and Darkrai and provided me a tanky mon that gave me an easy way to kill off Gardevoirs roaming the ladder. This thing is a chonk for sure. I was surprised at how well it soaked up hits from even Super Effective moves like Earthquake. I originally had Heavy Slam over one of the elemental punches to provided a sort of closing option, but I opted for the coverage as Double Iron Bash already has ridiculous range (especially when Plus).
Team Weaknesses:
While the general Fighting weakness it prominant, Marshadow in particular gives me the most grief due to Spectrial Thief. I even tried running Shadow Claw over Stone Edge on Chomp to help miligate this, but it failed in practice because it lacked power and it had a slow animation. Thankfully, I rarely ran into Marshadow on the climb so it wasn't that big of an issue.
Opposing Garchomp is a pain to deal with unless I played right. Ironically enough, I found Darkrai being my best answer to them thanks to Ice Beam as it was able to eat up Dragon Rushes and Earthquakes and a lot of them weren't Sashed so Ice Beam was a OHKO. Still, credit where its due.
Darkrai's worst nightmare, this thing would give me a lot of trouble if Melmetal wasn't out as its high physical defense allowed it to eat Garchomp's attacks quite well. First Impression is also a nuisance, though thankfully I didn't run into the issue on the climb.
And that's my team. Hope you all enjoy it.
Garchomp (M) @ Focus Sash
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
Normally I'd just leave a simple sentence and move on, but truth be told Garchomp is actually a placeholder. As of the time of writing this, I have yet to encounter and capture Latios (who would be a better option for this slot) so I had to make due with Garchomp. He still did Chomp things, but I really wished I managed to get Latios. Still working on getting it in fact at the time of writing this post.
Darkrai @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Dark Void
- Ice Beam
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
Darkrai was something I was really excited to try out when Season rules were released. I will admit he's not the best Mythical and there are better options for this slot, like Meloetta, but I still wanted to play around with Darkrai as he's one of my favorites. I tried out Calm Mind over Nasty Plot and Dark Pulse over Dark Void, but I found the most success with this setup. Dark Void in particular is pretty funny to fire into brawls thanks to its massive AoE when you Plus it. In fact, I found myself only using it Plus because it was at its best. It's true that the 60 BP made it a little lackluster, but Nasty Plot + Life Orb helped make up for it. Focus Blast was original Psychic, but I found having Steel coverage to be very useful (especially since originally I found myself struggling against Lucarios).
Melmetal @ Assault Vest
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
- Double Iron Bash
I wanted another good physical attacker for the team, as I don't like running more than one ranged fighter (especially a sniper). Melmetal fit in perfectly here, as it covered up the Fairy weakness shared by Garchomp and Darkrai and provided me a tanky mon that gave me an easy way to kill off Gardevoirs roaming the ladder. This thing is a chonk for sure. I was surprised at how well it soaked up hits from even Super Effective moves like Earthquake. I originally had Heavy Slam over one of the elemental punches to provided a sort of closing option, but I opted for the coverage as Double Iron Bash already has ridiculous range (especially when Plus).
Team Weaknesses:
While the general Fighting weakness it prominant, Marshadow in particular gives me the most grief due to Spectrial Thief. I even tried running Shadow Claw over Stone Edge on Chomp to help miligate this, but it failed in practice because it lacked power and it had a slow animation. Thankfully, I rarely ran into Marshadow on the climb so it wasn't that big of an issue.
Opposing Garchomp is a pain to deal with unless I played right. Ironically enough, I found Darkrai being my best answer to them thanks to Ice Beam as it was able to eat up Dragon Rushes and Earthquakes and a lot of them weren't Sashed so Ice Beam was a OHKO. Still, credit where its due.
Darkrai's worst nightmare, this thing would give me a lot of trouble if Melmetal wasn't out as its high physical defense allowed it to eat Garchomp's attacks quite well. First Impression is also a nuisance, though thankfully I didn't run into the issue on the climb.
And that's my team. Hope you all enjoy it.
Today, I wanted to talk about a Pokemon that essentially all of us had written off. It was initially seen as food for Golisopod, being 4x weak to First Impression, which we already know is a kill stealing machine, but the nail in the coffin was that upon every move use, this Pokemon would pause for almost a full second before actually casting. Today, we're talking about...
First, lets take a second to look at what casting on Hoopa Unbound normally looks like.
You can see in this clip that Hoopa Unbound takes half a second to unfurl its arms out first, then casting, only to refurl its arms back. This slight pause will constantly give you a massive disadvantage against other opponents, despite your massive offensive stats, and will be slow to the punch on every single engagement. We obviously have every reason to write this Pokemon off, despite its sheer stats. In a pinch, it can't react in time and get the kills you need it to, and is stuck stuttering every single cast, so why bother using it?
Because you can circumvent it entirely. Introducing: actually spacing with your ranged casters! This interaction has been in the game this entire time, it's a tiny micro-optimization you can do on ranged casters which allows them to cast slightly earlier and faster. The general logic is, when you used a ranged attack, your Pokemon will be to the top right of the direction you're facing. If they happen to already be there, they don't have to enter the whole rigmarole of walking to the correct position, they are already there, and as such, they cast and fire their move instantly. It was already good tech to practice, and most strong players did it subconsciously without even thinking about it. It works the same way for Hoopa Unbound too, only this time, you also skip the arms unfurling animation, allowing it to cast instantly as well. This is a tech that is required to make it operable, and you can now actually explore the sheer power behind this Pokemon.
Some fun calcs for you:
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psychic+ vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 183-216 (88.4 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psychic+ vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 191-225 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury+ vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Armarouge: 205-255 (106.7 - 132.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury+ vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 205-255 (105.6 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury+ vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 255-315 (123.1 - 152.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Focus Blast+ vs. 108 HP / 148 SpD Assault Vest Melmetal: 249-295 (111.1 - 131.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And all it took was a little bit of positioning. For what it's worth, many of us in the Discord server have already put this Pokemon to the test, and can consistently get this to work on ranked matches, it simply just takes a bit of practicing. If you never used this tech before on your ranged casters, now's a good time to put it into practice, as it quite literally is required for Hoopa Unbound.
Now, for the set:
Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
EVs: 92 HP / 164 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Psychic
- Hyperspace Fury
- Thunderbolt / Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
Credit to ThatOneApple for this spread, which lets you live a Dragon Rush+ from a +1 Garchomp (not mega), as well as just offering some general physical bulk and not sacrificing any power for it. I urge you all to actually give this Pokemon a go, because its power is quite unhinged.
I want to give a massive shoutout to Detrik in the Smogon Battle Club Discord server for putting the two and two together and discovering that using the ranged caster tech on Hoopa Unbound completely circumvents its issues. Without this discovery, this Pokemon would forever remain unranked.
First, lets take a second to look at what casting on Hoopa Unbound normally looks like.
You can see in this clip that Hoopa Unbound takes half a second to unfurl its arms out first, then casting, only to refurl its arms back. This slight pause will constantly give you a massive disadvantage against other opponents, despite your massive offensive stats, and will be slow to the punch on every single engagement. We obviously have every reason to write this Pokemon off, despite its sheer stats. In a pinch, it can't react in time and get the kills you need it to, and is stuck stuttering every single cast, so why bother using it?
Because you can circumvent it entirely. Introducing: actually spacing with your ranged casters! This interaction has been in the game this entire time, it's a tiny micro-optimization you can do on ranged casters which allows them to cast slightly earlier and faster. The general logic is, when you used a ranged attack, your Pokemon will be to the top right of the direction you're facing. If they happen to already be there, they don't have to enter the whole rigmarole of walking to the correct position, they are already there, and as such, they cast and fire their move instantly. It was already good tech to practice, and most strong players did it subconsciously without even thinking about it. It works the same way for Hoopa Unbound too, only this time, you also skip the arms unfurling animation, allowing it to cast instantly as well. This is a tech that is required to make it operable, and you can now actually explore the sheer power behind this Pokemon.
Some fun calcs for you:
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psychic+ vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 183-216 (88.4 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psychic+ vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 191-225 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury+ vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Armarouge: 205-255 (106.7 - 132.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury+ vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 205-255 (105.6 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury+ vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 255-315 (123.1 - 152.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Focus Blast+ vs. 108 HP / 148 SpD Assault Vest Melmetal: 249-295 (111.1 - 131.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And all it took was a little bit of positioning. For what it's worth, many of us in the Discord server have already put this Pokemon to the test, and can consistently get this to work on ranked matches, it simply just takes a bit of practicing. If you never used this tech before on your ranged casters, now's a good time to put it into practice, as it quite literally is required for Hoopa Unbound.
Now, for the set:
Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
EVs: 92 HP / 164 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Psychic
- Hyperspace Fury
- Thunderbolt / Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot
Credit to ThatOneApple for this spread, which lets you live a Dragon Rush+ from a +1 Garchomp (not mega), as well as just offering some general physical bulk and not sacrificing any power for it. I urge you all to actually give this Pokemon a go, because its power is quite unhinged.
I want to give a massive shoutout to Detrik in the Smogon Battle Club Discord server for putting the two and two together and discovering that using the ranged caster tech on Hoopa Unbound completely circumvents its issues. Without this discovery, this Pokemon would forever remain unranked.
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I just hit rank A today. I was in first place for a surprisingly high number of my matches, too! I wasn't expecting that with the team that I used, but I'm very happy to be proven wrong. I made some minor adjustments to the team I shared before, though the literal star of the show is still the same: Starmie.
Starmie @ Expert Belt
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Meteor Beam
I ended up using Starmie as my lead most of the time. Meteor Beam puts in serious work! We all know it's a powerful sniping move. It gave Starmie exactly what it needed: stat boosting! Starmie has excellent coverage, which made it easy to constantly get super effective hits. Expert Belt definitely helped out there! It may not have the raw nuking power to OHKO the tankiest threats, but I definitely recommend not underestimating SpongeBob's best friend.
Starmie was my MVP in most of my games.
I imagine Keldeo would do similarly well, though it lacks Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt puts in a lot of work! It also has to rely on Calm Mind for boosts, which doesn't last as long as Meteor Beam. I would've tried it in my climb to rank A if I had it.
Garchomp (Alpha) @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Rush
- Stone Edge/Fire Fang/Thunder Fang
- Swords Dance
Should Life Orb have been replaced with Focus Sash or Yache Berry? Probably. Did Life Orb still put in a lot of work? Absolutely!
I really don't like Stone Edge in this game. It's too easy to dodge. When it hits, though? I still often felt like I needed Fire Fang or Thunder Fang...
I want to give Dual Chop another shot. I tried it for a little while during this run and wasn't super impressed, but it charges more quickly than Dragon Rush, isn't too much weaker, and can secure OHKOs past Focus Sashes. Needing to hit twice and not being able to use it to jump onto an opposing 'Mon does make it feel like a potential waste of a slot, though.
Garchomp was the weakest member of the team.
Magearna @ Magearnite
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Steel Beam
- Fleur Cannon
- Focus Blast/Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
I usually kept Magearna waiting until I was ready to mega evolve it. It did still come in handy from time to time without that, though. I didn't like relying on Fleur Cannon for Fairy damage, but without Moonblast, Magearna really has no other reliable options. Dazzling Gleam just doesn't cut it with how easy it is to dodge. I don't like that Fleur Cannon drops Magearna's SpA, but Magearna was mainly there to be a missile launcher.
There were plenty of times where I felt like Magearna had major 4MSS. I wanted to have both Focus Blast and Thunderbolt. I just didn't have room. Thankfully, +1 Steel Beam and +1 Fleur Cannon from Mega Magearna OHKOd many things that they shouldn't have been able to scratch. Resistances? Nah. Steel Beam and Fleur Cannon don't care.
I considered trying Diancie out since it gets Meteor Beam, Moonblast, and Earth Power. It lacks immediate power, but it looks like it would've performed relatively similarly to Magearna on paper after mega evolving. Rock is a much worse type than Steel, though. Base 50 HP also really sucks.
Overall, this was a fun team to use and a great climb to rank A!
Starmie @ Expert Belt
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Meteor Beam
I ended up using Starmie as my lead most of the time. Meteor Beam puts in serious work! We all know it's a powerful sniping move. It gave Starmie exactly what it needed: stat boosting! Starmie has excellent coverage, which made it easy to constantly get super effective hits. Expert Belt definitely helped out there! It may not have the raw nuking power to OHKO the tankiest threats, but I definitely recommend not underestimating SpongeBob's best friend.
Starmie was my MVP in most of my games.
I imagine Keldeo would do similarly well, though it lacks Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt puts in a lot of work! It also has to rely on Calm Mind for boosts, which doesn't last as long as Meteor Beam. I would've tried it in my climb to rank A if I had it.
Garchomp (Alpha) @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Rush
- Stone Edge/Fire Fang/Thunder Fang
- Swords Dance
Should Life Orb have been replaced with Focus Sash or Yache Berry? Probably. Did Life Orb still put in a lot of work? Absolutely!
I really don't like Stone Edge in this game. It's too easy to dodge. When it hits, though? I still often felt like I needed Fire Fang or Thunder Fang...
I want to give Dual Chop another shot. I tried it for a little while during this run and wasn't super impressed, but it charges more quickly than Dragon Rush, isn't too much weaker, and can secure OHKOs past Focus Sashes. Needing to hit twice and not being able to use it to jump onto an opposing 'Mon does make it feel like a potential waste of a slot, though.
Garchomp was the weakest member of the team.
Magearna @ Magearnite
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Steel Beam
- Fleur Cannon
- Focus Blast/Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
I usually kept Magearna waiting until I was ready to mega evolve it. It did still come in handy from time to time without that, though. I didn't like relying on Fleur Cannon for Fairy damage, but without Moonblast, Magearna really has no other reliable options. Dazzling Gleam just doesn't cut it with how easy it is to dodge. I don't like that Fleur Cannon drops Magearna's SpA, but Magearna was mainly there to be a missile launcher.
There were plenty of times where I felt like Magearna had major 4MSS. I wanted to have both Focus Blast and Thunderbolt. I just didn't have room. Thankfully, +1 Steel Beam and +1 Fleur Cannon from Mega Magearna OHKOd many things that they shouldn't have been able to scratch. Resistances? Nah. Steel Beam and Fleur Cannon don't care.
I considered trying Diancie out since it gets Meteor Beam, Moonblast, and Earth Power. It lacks immediate power, but it looks like it would've performed relatively similarly to Magearna on paper after mega evolving. Rock is a much worse type than Steel, though. Base 50 HP also really sucks.
Overall, this was a fun team to use and a great climb to rank A!
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Season 6 has been announced officially and legalizes the Weather Trio and returns the 1 Restricted limit per team, but more importantly excludes Mythicals from the Restricted list, with your Restricteds being:
Xerneas
Yveltal
Zygarde
Mewtwo
Kyogre
Groudon
Rayquaza
This seems to imply Mythicals from this season have a real shot of being solid partners for your Restricteds without actually eating into your Restricted slot!
(This is based off of both Serebii's postings, as well as the news posted in game, detailing "Only one of the following special Pokemon may be included on your team:", as well as stating Lumiose Pokedex 001-232 are legal, as well as Hyperspace Pokedex 001-132 are legal. If this somehow ages poorly and this isn't true then oops)
Ugh... I can't be the only one dreading this.
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Watchog Giga Impact+ vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rayquaza-Mega on a critical hit: 258-303 (121.6 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Flip a coin gecko boy
FLIP THAT COIN MOTHERFUCKER
Flip a coin gecko boy
FLIP THAT COIN MOTHERFUCKER
aright guys who's ready to see a bunch of funny clips propagating online consisting mainly of a small hitbox pokemon neatly dodging a close range origin pulse
Been procrastinating playing for a while, but for the first time since season 1 i decided to grind my way up to A Rank. Not dealing with Xerneas was really nice. Idk if the team was particularly unconventional, but I decided to put my hopes into Mega Staraptor, here are my thoughts on it.
First off, teammates were Life Orb SD/EQ/Dragon Rush/Poison Jab Garchomp and Magnet Screens/Charge/Thunderbolt Ampharos, and Staraptor was Bulk Up/Brave Bird/Close Combat/Blaze Kick. Blaze Kick was there for Gholdengo insurance and because I couldn't think of a better fourth move, EVs were standard max HP/Attack 4 Defense
Actual thoughts, team was definitely weak to some things, Magearna especially, and Staraptor is very much a glass cannon, but god it sometimes just goes on a rampage and gets me 4 or 5 KOs in a single life. Those times are what I live for. Does best as a late game cleaner, taking low hp enemies with large hitbox moves like CC and Brave Bird. Blaze Kick is the fast move on the set, but I didn't find myself clicking it that often, mostly against Magearna and Gholdengo, and the hitbox left a little to be desired. Garchomp was Garchomp, I'm sure you all know what that does, and Ampharos was mostly a setup mon, putting up the screens and generating mega charge to lead into Staraptor.
First off, teammates were Life Orb SD/EQ/Dragon Rush/Poison Jab Garchomp and Magnet Screens/Charge/Thunderbolt Ampharos, and Staraptor was Bulk Up/Brave Bird/Close Combat/Blaze Kick. Blaze Kick was there for Gholdengo insurance and because I couldn't think of a better fourth move, EVs were standard max HP/Attack 4 Defense
Actual thoughts, team was definitely weak to some things, Magearna especially, and Staraptor is very much a glass cannon, but god it sometimes just goes on a rampage and gets me 4 or 5 KOs in a single life. Those times are what I live for. Does best as a late game cleaner, taking low hp enemies with large hitbox moves like CC and Brave Bird. Blaze Kick is the fast move on the set, but I didn't find myself clicking it that often, mostly against Magearna and Gholdengo, and the hitbox left a little to be desired. Garchomp was Garchomp, I'm sure you all know what that does, and Ampharos was mostly a setup mon, putting up the screens and generating mega charge to lead into Staraptor.
iirc they immediately undergo Primal Reversion the first time they are sent out in battle and have finished their roaring animations. They also don't automatically use Plus Moves while continually depleting the Mega gauge, unlike regular Mega Evolutions.
There has been some testing in the Discord server where it's possible for them to immediately revert while bypassing their entrance animations, but it seems unreliable atm.
There has been some testing in the Discord server where it's possible for them to immediately revert while bypassing their entrance animations, but it seems unreliable atm.
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I use the Primals all the time in hyperspace versus rogue megas (particularly P.Groudon vs Rogue Mega Heatran, and P.Kyogre vs Rogue Mega Camerupt) and sometimes for lulz in hyperspace Battle Zones. They aren’t like megas at all really. They are simply Pokémon that have an alternate form enabled by their held item. They transform as soon as you send them out and they stay like that for the duration of the battle even if you recall them or whatever. They don’t use mega energy like a mega, and you have to plus moves like any other mon. I’m not sure if they are invulnerable while transforming upon first entry, but my guess is yes. That will be interesting to note in PVP.
Mega Rayquaza is more like a regular mega, in that it can only go mega when you have enough meter, and it uses plus moves automatically. The huge benefit, of course is that it does not need an mega stone. It simply needs dragon ascent in its move set. If it does not have dragon ascent in its moveset then it is like any other Pokémon that can go mega but is not holding it’s mega stone.
As season 5 wraps up and season 6 looms on the horizon, here is the team I used to reach A rank for the first time
Marshadow @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Spectral Thief
- Ice Punch
- Bulk Up
When it came to team building, I wanted to build around Marshadow, its stab combination allows it to threaten the many steels in the meta along with other threats such as Armarouge. Originally, Marshadow wasn't the lead and had Life Orb as the item, I found that while powerful, the long cooldowns made the high damage that life orb offered not as high as I was hoping, so Marshadow was made the lead as a duelist and given the focus sash.
Marshadow's Spectral Thief + Ice Punch combination decimates most ground type leads like Garchomp, and Close Combat is incredibly strong after a bulk up, even without life orb.
Armarouge @ Expert Belt
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Psychic
- Solar Beam
- Meteor Beam
Its Armarouge, it does armarouge things, snipe opponents from afar with its great coverage, use meteor beam to boost and solar beam to destroy any grass weak mon on the field. Given the items I had the other two members hold, Expert belt was given to increase the power of the supereffective hits while not losing HP in the process.
Golisopod @ Life Orb
Ability: Emergency Exit
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Waterfall
- Close Combat
- Drill Run
Golisopod was the last member of the team to be added, it was originally lead Garchomp, but I switched to Golisopod after realizing how weak the team was to opposing Garchomp. Golisopod is a very fun mon to use in Legends ZA, switch in, plus First Impression some poor fool, and then use the other three moves to finish off the target or hit something else for weakness. CC and Drill Run are here to hit the different steels of the tier for SE while also having a decent amount of AOE.
One major weakness for this team is Electric types, while they weren't super common this season, I've got no Electric Resist/immunity so anytime an opponent had an electric type I needed to be careful around them.
Going into season 6, I wonder how the weather trio will adapt to Legends ZA meta, especially with Groudon and Kyogre as I have a feeling the base forms might see a bit more use than their primal forms due to the time wasted by the transformation. Though only time will tell.
Marshadow @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Spectral Thief
- Ice Punch
- Bulk Up
When it came to team building, I wanted to build around Marshadow, its stab combination allows it to threaten the many steels in the meta along with other threats such as Armarouge. Originally, Marshadow wasn't the lead and had Life Orb as the item, I found that while powerful, the long cooldowns made the high damage that life orb offered not as high as I was hoping, so Marshadow was made the lead as a duelist and given the focus sash.
Marshadow's Spectral Thief + Ice Punch combination decimates most ground type leads like Garchomp, and Close Combat is incredibly strong after a bulk up, even without life orb.
Armarouge @ Expert Belt
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Psychic
- Solar Beam
- Meteor Beam
Its Armarouge, it does armarouge things, snipe opponents from afar with its great coverage, use meteor beam to boost and solar beam to destroy any grass weak mon on the field. Given the items I had the other two members hold, Expert belt was given to increase the power of the supereffective hits while not losing HP in the process.
Golisopod @ Life Orb
Ability: Emergency Exit
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Waterfall
- Close Combat
- Drill Run
Golisopod was the last member of the team to be added, it was originally lead Garchomp, but I switched to Golisopod after realizing how weak the team was to opposing Garchomp. Golisopod is a very fun mon to use in Legends ZA, switch in, plus First Impression some poor fool, and then use the other three moves to finish off the target or hit something else for weakness. CC and Drill Run are here to hit the different steels of the tier for SE while also having a decent amount of AOE.
One major weakness for this team is Electric types, while they weren't super common this season, I've got no Electric Resist/immunity so anytime an opponent had an electric type I needed to be careful around them.
Going into season 6, I wonder how the weather trio will adapt to Legends ZA meta, especially with Groudon and Kyogre as I have a feeling the base forms might see a bit more use than their primal forms due to the time wasted by the transformation. Though only time will tell.
What teams are you all brewing up? I'm thinking of opening with Primal Kyogre with CM + Hydro Pump/Origin Pulse/Surf + BoltBeam since I had a massive amount of success with a similar Starmie set in this last season. Mega Magearna or Mega Diancie will take my fairy slot. I'm not sure what to run in the last slot. I hesitate to pick Garchomp again because of Kyogre, Rayquaza, and Xerneas. Some kind of flying Pokémon might be good for dodging Groudon's Earthquake/Precipice Blades.
Garchomp
Kyogre (non Primal) / Xerneas
Gholdengo / Melmetal (if not restricted)
Should be a generally safe approach for d1.
Some tech options to consider
- Defense investment on Kyogre to survive +1 Mega Ray Dragon Ascent
- Physical Life Orb Solar Blade Xerneas to beat opposing Kyogre
- Surf on Gholdengo to bait and defeat Primal Groudon (may be risky due to Heat Crash; might be worth considering Occa)
I've opted to not make Kyogre Primal, because the Primal Reversion animation wastes valuable time, and the i-frames are surprisingly short. You can run Primal if you want to run Icicle Spear to OHKO Ray/Garchomp through Sash, though.
Kyogre (non Primal) / Xerneas
Gholdengo / Melmetal (if not restricted)
Should be a generally safe approach for d1.
Some tech options to consider
- Defense investment on Kyogre to survive +1 Mega Ray Dragon Ascent
- Physical Life Orb Solar Blade Xerneas to beat opposing Kyogre
- Surf on Gholdengo to bait and defeat Primal Groudon (may be risky due to Heat Crash; might be worth considering Occa)
I've opted to not make Kyogre Primal, because the Primal Reversion animation wastes valuable time, and the i-frames are surprisingly short. You can run Primal if you want to run Icicle Spear to OHKO Ray/Garchomp through Sash, though.
Kyogre @ Mystic Water / Expert Belt
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Def / 164 SpA
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Origin Pulse / Thunderbolt
Melmetal @ Assault Vest
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Heavy Slam
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
Garchomp @ Focus Sash
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Rush
- Stone Edge / Poison Jab
This will be my day 1 team. Thankfully, the OG Melmetal spread looks to remain relevant for S6, as non-Life Orb Xerneas's +1 +Focus Blast won't KO from full, and even LO sets only KO 50% of the time. If LO's more common, I might invest some more into SpDef, but I see Babiri to be the standard with all the good Steels we have now. No EQ on this set as I feel Steel/Electric/Ice coverage will be necessary for the restricteds, with double Steel being nice for Babiri Xern.
I'm also not running Blue Orb on Kyogre, and running enough defensive investment to survive not only Mega Ray's non-LO +1 +Dragon Ascent, but Adamant Life Orb Xerneas's +Solar Blade, as well. I'll be experimenting with either Mystic Water + 2 Water moves for strong neutral Water STABs, or Expert Belt + Thunderbolt for opposing Kyogre and Electric-weaks.
Sash Chomp needs no detailed explanation, but I might slot Poison Jab in the event Xerneas becomes omnipressent again (it will once new weather trio toy syndrome dies down).
I can see
also being hella strong against most of the restricteds. I might give that a whirl again, too.
What is the best team for mega-golisopod? And what moves and distribution of iv/ev do they use in it?
Been a while since I used Mega Golisopod as nowadays I prefer using regular w/ Life Orb, but a good and basic Mega Golisopod team would look something like this:
Golisopod-Mega @ Golisopite
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leech Life
- Waterfall
- Drill Run
Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Rush
- Stone Edge
Armarouge @ Life Orb
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Heat Wave
- Psychic
- Meteor Beam
- Solar Beam
Garchomp's one of the best defensive partners for Mega Golisopod. Not only does it resist Fire, but it's Electric-immune and a Rock-resist, which helps standard Golisopod as it's Bug/Water. Armarouge gives you a secondary Fire-resist and a ranged attacker that can melt Mega Skarmory, which both Garchomp and Golisopod struggle with. You could probably slot First Impression somewhere on Mega Golisopod, but the Life Orb set does that way better since it's not concerned with preserving mega meter. If you didn't know, First Impression with Plus Power always lands a critical hit, and this trait has elevated non-Mega Golisopod into a meta threat. I highly recommend regular Golisopod over its Mega, but if you want to use its Mega, the team above should compliment it well.
Season 6 is approaching, though, and I don't see Mega Golisopod having any relevance once that starts, so use it now before the new season lol
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Tier list time.
Yeah these two definitely still define the S5 meta for me and the new additions to the meta have generally been favorable to them. Garchomp has more Fire-types to check with the addition of Volcanion (and the unviable Heatran) and faces a decline in multi-hit moves with OHKO potential with past threats such as Porygon-Z taking a hit in viability because of the comparison with Meloetta. It doesn't win 1 on 1 against the new Steels, but this is where Armarouge has shined even more, being able to check Steels, new and old, as well as blow up just about anything with its perfect coverage. It has even mandated the creation of a specific Melmetal spread in this community, showing its influence.
Melmetal has been introduced as the newest sturdy glue Steel-type which can just be swapped in to force people to disengage or grab kills in crowded environments with its hard to avoid Double Iron Bash. It's like if Metagross were good, as it leverages much the same effective coverage but actually gets kills off of not being blown up by stray Heat Waves right away. People often won't want to engage this thing because it will eat whatever you threw at it and give another person a point, which helps it deter people from going after you. This has prompted people to look for OHKO calcs on Melmetal, with the exact Melmetal spread I was talking about earlier making some Armarouge adapt Armor Cannon into their movesets on ladder just for that purpose. Yeah, we all went in with the idea that this thing would be very good and quite influent and were very right.
Golisopod feasts off of the Psychic-type snipers introduced this season and the subsequent rise in those, what with Armarouge, Meloetta and the Hoopas being pretty significant presences on ladder. First Impression+ has proven as effective as last meta in keeping non-Steel snipers and weakened glues alike in check by punishing poor positioning with kills. Less Thunderbolt (at least, in my experience) means less risk of getting sniped while doing your thing, though it is sometimes present on Psychic-types' sets so watch out.
I have seen much less Gholdengo on ladder this season off of people often preferring Melmetal or Magearna, which makes me unwilling to put it in A+, but it still is the same slippery fucker it has always been and its typing gives it key resistances to Golisopod's First Impression, Meloetta's STABs and Magearna and Clefable's whatever while outrunning EQs for days or stomaching them with Shuca Berry. The new Volcanion and Marshadow, as well as Hoopa-Unbound which has been taken up by our community, have added to its unkind matchups this season, but overall it still is pretty strong!
Meloetta has taken up Porygon-Z's mantle of a Hyper Beam user being able to blast off many Pokémon at the blink of an eye but also to leverage other great sniping options, namely Psychic and Thunderbolt here. And much like Porygon-Z, it hates being dived on by physical threats such as Garchomp and especially Golisopod, but holds its own against Special threats off of a high Special bulk bolstered by Calm Mind. Its typing alone also makes it a workable answer to Marshadow. A bit sad I couldn't test this Pokémon more off of finding its rift a bit late but what I've used and seen of it was scary. It can and WILL blow you up if you're not on your Steel-type.
Magearna is the other great sniper of this season, leveraging its great coverage and strong Fleur Cannon into opportunities to take favorable trades with Shuca Berry and get kills. With its Fairy/Steel defensive typing, it holds the niche of being a Steel-type that doesn't lose to Marshadow, which has made me put it in more teams than I'd care to admit, but it lacks Melmetal's raw bulk and Gholdengo's speed, making it the least viable of our top Steel-types in my view.
I have been loving Marshadow this season as a great anti-lead to Garchomp, its tracking Spectral Thief answering stuff like Armarouge and Gholdengo (and even less viable stuff like Dondozo which I am not a fan of), and nuclear Close Combats netting one of the only Melmetal one-shot calcs. It excels best in giving you early leads to solidify later in the game but can be called upon to trade off of being a Sashed mon with perfect neutral coverage if need be.
You'd think the rise in Steels would make Clefable take a harder hit but here it is in A-! Turns out being a great answer to Garchomp, a sniper resistant to First Impression, and wielding coverage for days, among which Meteor "Best move in the game" Beam for Fire-types, still makes it very viable. I don't have much else to say about Clefable, it's still very solid.
Volcanion has solidified itself as the second best Fire-type in the tier. When Season 6 dropped, I said it left me unimpressed. How wrong I was. Its wide coverage and great bulk coupled with a chance to burn Pokémon with Steam Eruption have made it surprisingly tricky to deal with since Garchomp as an answer may get punished for switching in.
Swampert and Marowak figure in this spot of the tier list off of being alternate Ground-type picks to Garchomp that win against Melmetal but pale in comparison because of their matchup into Solar Beam-wielding Fire-types. They are still very workable and I've been seeing them a lot. Marowak in particular bypasses Shuca Berry strats thanks to its two-hit tracking move Bonemerang.
Very viable mons end here imo.
I would describe Hoopa-Unbound as an A-tier mon with C tier maneuverability. Its matchup spread into top metagame mons is immaculate: you get OHKOs against pretty much everything except Magearna between nuclear Psychics, Hyperspace Fury decimating Psychic resists, and your coverage choice between Focus Blast and Thunderbolt giving you either the jump on Melmetal or further sniping opportunities. That makes it a very interesting mon on paper. But in practice, it is riddled with the arm dance disability meaning taking it up is quite a learning curve, on top of low physical bulk and a high susceptibility to Golisopod. Missing autocasts with it can as such be game losing as you will miss your move then get dived on easily, so while it is a very great mon once it has been learned, I wouldn't actually advise friends unversed in competitive to play it. Hence it leads the B+ tier instead purely off of how hard it is to get a hang on.
Screens with its poster child Ampharos and Mega-Pokémon have definitely taken a hit in a Plus Move-hungry meta like this one, though Absol-Z and Skarmory-Mega still have very interesting matchup spreads into the meta, while I have seen Garchomp-Mega and Lucario-Z pop off and Ampharos adapting with offensive sets, so they still have to be respected.
Hoopa-Confined, Charizard and Corviknight are both sidegrades of very viable Pokémon (Meloetta, Armarouge and Skarmory respectively) that do a specific thing differently. Hoopa-Confined leverages Shadow Ball to get the jump on Armarouge, as well as a faster speed and Hyperspace Hole iframes if you're using that, while Charizard cleanly one-shots Melmetal with Blast Burn, leveraging its immunity to Earthquake to come in more easily, and chunks resists for a lot. As for Corviknight, it leverages Curse/Bulk Up and Plus Flying attacks into repositioning and bringing defensive utility over Skarmory's offense. As such, those are good choices on specific comps.
Sirfetch'd is Sirfetch'd. You still just crit through everything but now there are Melmetals, but also Magearnas and Meloettas which are awkward.
Poster child of Japan Porygon2 still does not die and therefore can run around and get snipes on weakened Pokémon. However, its efficiency in high pressure lobbies is low because opposing OHKOes means it doesn't snipe and it will get ignored, and it doesn't like Marshadow and Calm Mind Pokémon being relevant.
For the upcoming season, I intend on using a comp that has been discussed at length already: Garchomp + Kyogre + Steel, but I will be using a variant with Gholdengo over Melmetal. I'd like to thank Vengeance417 for the very interesting Kyogre spread! I will definitely be using it.
I have my eyes on pretty much every restricted aside from Zygarde and Yveltal, on Armarouge (whose viability might be affected by the arrival of stuff like Kyogre and Groudon, wondering how it will fare), and on Screens making a grand comeback, maybe with Rotom variants to either threaten Groudon with Hydro Pump (Wash) or be immune to its Earthquakes and take advantage of less Stone Edge Garchomp with the return of Xerneas mandating Poison Jab (Fan). I'll have to bother friends to get MMX though since that's on my radar of things to test.
Yeah these two definitely still define the S5 meta for me and the new additions to the meta have generally been favorable to them. Garchomp has more Fire-types to check with the addition of Volcanion (and the unviable Heatran) and faces a decline in multi-hit moves with OHKO potential with past threats such as Porygon-Z taking a hit in viability because of the comparison with Meloetta. It doesn't win 1 on 1 against the new Steels, but this is where Armarouge has shined even more, being able to check Steels, new and old, as well as blow up just about anything with its perfect coverage. It has even mandated the creation of a specific Melmetal spread in this community, showing its influence.
Melmetal has been introduced as the newest sturdy glue Steel-type which can just be swapped in to force people to disengage or grab kills in crowded environments with its hard to avoid Double Iron Bash. It's like if Metagross were good, as it leverages much the same effective coverage but actually gets kills off of not being blown up by stray Heat Waves right away. People often won't want to engage this thing because it will eat whatever you threw at it and give another person a point, which helps it deter people from going after you. This has prompted people to look for OHKO calcs on Melmetal, with the exact Melmetal spread I was talking about earlier making some Armarouge adapt Armor Cannon into their movesets on ladder just for that purpose. Yeah, we all went in with the idea that this thing would be very good and quite influent and were very right.
Golisopod feasts off of the Psychic-type snipers introduced this season and the subsequent rise in those, what with Armarouge, Meloetta and the Hoopas being pretty significant presences on ladder. First Impression+ has proven as effective as last meta in keeping non-Steel snipers and weakened glues alike in check by punishing poor positioning with kills. Less Thunderbolt (at least, in my experience) means less risk of getting sniped while doing your thing, though it is sometimes present on Psychic-types' sets so watch out.
I have seen much less Gholdengo on ladder this season off of people often preferring Melmetal or Magearna, which makes me unwilling to put it in A+, but it still is the same slippery fucker it has always been and its typing gives it key resistances to Golisopod's First Impression, Meloetta's STABs and Magearna and Clefable's whatever while outrunning EQs for days or stomaching them with Shuca Berry. The new Volcanion and Marshadow, as well as Hoopa-Unbound which has been taken up by our community, have added to its unkind matchups this season, but overall it still is pretty strong!
Meloetta has taken up Porygon-Z's mantle of a Hyper Beam user being able to blast off many Pokémon at the blink of an eye but also to leverage other great sniping options, namely Psychic and Thunderbolt here. And much like Porygon-Z, it hates being dived on by physical threats such as Garchomp and especially Golisopod, but holds its own against Special threats off of a high Special bulk bolstered by Calm Mind. Its typing alone also makes it a workable answer to Marshadow. A bit sad I couldn't test this Pokémon more off of finding its rift a bit late but what I've used and seen of it was scary. It can and WILL blow you up if you're not on your Steel-type.
Magearna is the other great sniper of this season, leveraging its great coverage and strong Fleur Cannon into opportunities to take favorable trades with Shuca Berry and get kills. With its Fairy/Steel defensive typing, it holds the niche of being a Steel-type that doesn't lose to Marshadow, which has made me put it in more teams than I'd care to admit, but it lacks Melmetal's raw bulk and Gholdengo's speed, making it the least viable of our top Steel-types in my view.
I have been loving Marshadow this season as a great anti-lead to Garchomp, its tracking Spectral Thief answering stuff like Armarouge and Gholdengo (and even less viable stuff like Dondozo which I am not a fan of), and nuclear Close Combats netting one of the only Melmetal one-shot calcs. It excels best in giving you early leads to solidify later in the game but can be called upon to trade off of being a Sashed mon with perfect neutral coverage if need be.
You'd think the rise in Steels would make Clefable take a harder hit but here it is in A-! Turns out being a great answer to Garchomp, a sniper resistant to First Impression, and wielding coverage for days, among which Meteor "Best move in the game" Beam for Fire-types, still makes it very viable. I don't have much else to say about Clefable, it's still very solid.
Volcanion has solidified itself as the second best Fire-type in the tier. When Season 6 dropped, I said it left me unimpressed. How wrong I was. Its wide coverage and great bulk coupled with a chance to burn Pokémon with Steam Eruption have made it surprisingly tricky to deal with since Garchomp as an answer may get punished for switching in.
Swampert and Marowak figure in this spot of the tier list off of being alternate Ground-type picks to Garchomp that win against Melmetal but pale in comparison because of their matchup into Solar Beam-wielding Fire-types. They are still very workable and I've been seeing them a lot. Marowak in particular bypasses Shuca Berry strats thanks to its two-hit tracking move Bonemerang.
Very viable mons end here imo.
I would describe Hoopa-Unbound as an A-tier mon with C tier maneuverability. Its matchup spread into top metagame mons is immaculate: you get OHKOs against pretty much everything except Magearna between nuclear Psychics, Hyperspace Fury decimating Psychic resists, and your coverage choice between Focus Blast and Thunderbolt giving you either the jump on Melmetal or further sniping opportunities. That makes it a very interesting mon on paper. But in practice, it is riddled with the arm dance disability meaning taking it up is quite a learning curve, on top of low physical bulk and a high susceptibility to Golisopod. Missing autocasts with it can as such be game losing as you will miss your move then get dived on easily, so while it is a very great mon once it has been learned, I wouldn't actually advise friends unversed in competitive to play it. Hence it leads the B+ tier instead purely off of how hard it is to get a hang on.
Screens with its poster child Ampharos and Mega-Pokémon have definitely taken a hit in a Plus Move-hungry meta like this one, though Absol-Z and Skarmory-Mega still have very interesting matchup spreads into the meta, while I have seen Garchomp-Mega and Lucario-Z pop off and Ampharos adapting with offensive sets, so they still have to be respected.
Hoopa-Confined, Charizard and Corviknight are both sidegrades of very viable Pokémon (Meloetta, Armarouge and Skarmory respectively) that do a specific thing differently. Hoopa-Confined leverages Shadow Ball to get the jump on Armarouge, as well as a faster speed and Hyperspace Hole iframes if you're using that, while Charizard cleanly one-shots Melmetal with Blast Burn, leveraging its immunity to Earthquake to come in more easily, and chunks resists for a lot. As for Corviknight, it leverages Curse/Bulk Up and Plus Flying attacks into repositioning and bringing defensive utility over Skarmory's offense. As such, those are good choices on specific comps.
Sirfetch'd is Sirfetch'd. You still just crit through everything but now there are Melmetals, but also Magearnas and Meloettas which are awkward.
Poster child of Japan Porygon2 still does not die and therefore can run around and get snipes on weakened Pokémon. However, its efficiency in high pressure lobbies is low because opposing OHKOes means it doesn't snipe and it will get ignored, and it doesn't like Marshadow and Calm Mind Pokémon being relevant.
For the upcoming season, I intend on using a comp that has been discussed at length already: Garchomp + Kyogre + Steel, but I will be using a variant with Gholdengo over Melmetal. I'd like to thank Vengeance417 for the very interesting Kyogre spread! I will definitely be using it.
I have my eyes on pretty much every restricted aside from Zygarde and Yveltal, on Armarouge (whose viability might be affected by the arrival of stuff like Kyogre and Groudon, wondering how it will fare), and on Screens making a grand comeback, maybe with Rotom variants to either threaten Groudon with Hydro Pump (Wash) or be immune to its Earthquakes and take advantage of less Stone Edge Garchomp with the return of Xerneas mandating Poison Jab (Fan). I'll have to bother friends to get MMX though since that's on my radar of things to test.
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