Lower Tiers GSC PU Discussion Thread (Trap Pass Banned Post #55)

[BigFatMantis]

Following the major drops to PU and rise from PU, the GSC PU council have voted to Quickban Baton Pass. This vote was carried out after Baton Pass emerged as a major issue in testing and it was agreed immediate action was needed for tier stability.

We will be revisiting action on Baton Pass in the near future with the possibility of a resuspect or some other action, we are interested to hear people's take on it as we move forward with the tier.

Voting

Aurist: Ban
BeeOrSomething: Ban
DD Joe: Ban
Estarossa: Ban
torkonpeter: Ban

Tagging Marty and dhelmise for implementation, thank you.

I understand the need for stability but that is a major change for something that was not an issue pre-drops. Testing is extremely early right now, and Farfetch’d was a better target preliminarily speaking. Doing this completely changes the tier and I sincerely hope the council is sincere about resuspecting it soon rather than removing a major element of the game in a quickban without player input.

TLDR I hope the “resuspect” talk is not BS just to push this through

 

[Shengineer]

COWARDS!

Basically, my thoughts echo those of BFM: Farfetchd would be a far better ban target as none of the other new mons (bar Hitmonchan as a curse recipient?) really alter what was already a fine element of the tier. I personally find baton pass very fun to use and am saddened by its overeager ban.

 

[BigFatMantis]

COWARDS!

Basically, my thoughts echo those of BFM: Farfetchd would be a far better ban target as none of the other new mons (bar Hitmonchan as a curse recipient?) really alter what was already a fine element of the tier. I personally find baton pass very fun to use and am saddened by its overeager ban.

Don’t mean to dogpile or anything but just want to add that baton pass is indeed extremely fun and the council is taking the joy away from a big part of the tier right before PUCL starts but after the draft which is a bit upsetting. A lot of the excitement was literally pulled from underneath and there’s was little reason to not simply target Farfetch’d for now. I hope this decision can be reconsidered but I doubt it will. I really hope it is revisited also but these things rarely seem to do so

 

[BloodAce]

Ban farfetchd, free baton pass. I agree with the above, this was a premature ban of what has been a valid and fun strategy.

The only thing that fundamentally changed for it was the addition of one agility sd pass merchant. Ban that guy instead and reevaluate bp later if need be.

 

[torkonpeter]

I understand the need for stability but that is a major change for something that was not an issue pre-drops. Testing is extremely early right now, and Farfetch’d was a better target preliminarily speaking. Doing this completely changes the tier and I sincerely hope the council is sincere about resuspecting it soon rather than removing a major element of the game in a quickban without player input.

TLDR I hope the “resuspect” talk is not BS just to push this throug

Ban farfetchd, free baton pass. I agree with the above, this was a premature ban of what has been a valid and fun strategy.

The only thing that fundamentally changed for it was the addition of one agility sd pass merchant. Ban that guy instead and reevaluate bp later if need be.

COWARDS!

Basically, my thoughts echo those of BFM: Farfetchd would be a far better ban target as none of the other new mons (bar Hitmonchan as a curse recipient?) really alter what was already a fine element of the tier. I personally find baton pass very fun to use and am saddened by its overeager ban.

3 things
Bp isnt suddenly only after the drops in contention last meta there was alredy an survey for bp and it was the issue seen as the most problematic of the things surveyed and mentioned as the most common issue of pu in the free write part of the survey

The second thing is farfetched isnt the only new advantage bpgot. the tier got farfetch as an new yes but we also got hitmonchan and dundparce as good curse pass recipiants and azu as another agility pass recipient that works even without sd pass from farfetched and dunsparce that works good with farfetched. lastly anti bp tech was made worse trough the drops before the drops spikes was better which gave more teams an valid reason to use roar or whirlwind and 3 of the hazers left have completely left the meta

Last thing farfetched also isnt the best bp users this and last meta the best bp users stays venomoth because of its good stats status moves and better/more common bp recipants farfetched is just an upgrade frail new agility sd pass user which makes its bp pass shenanigans an more variable on its effectiveness

 

[BigFatMantis]

3 things
Bp isnt suddenly only after the drops in contention last meta there was alredy an survey for bp and it was the issue seen as the most problematic of the things surveyed and mentioned as the most common issue of pu in the free write part of the survey

The second thing is farfetched isnt the only new advantage bpgot. the tier got farfetch as an new yes but we also got hitmonchan and dundparce as good curse pass recipiants and azu as another agility pass recipient that works even without sd pass from farfetched and dunsparce that works good with farfetched. lastly anti bp tech was made worse trough the drops before the drops spikes was better which gave more teams an valid reason to use roar or whirlwind and 3 of the hazers left have completely left the meta

Last thing farfetched also isnt the best bp users this and last meta the best bp users stays venomoth because of its good stats status moves and better/more common bp recipants farfetched is just an upgrade frail new agility sd pass user which makes its bp pass shenanigans an more variable on its effectiveness

My point though is not that BP is fine, it’s that this was premature and it’s not something that should be quickbanned. Let the players play, and let the players decide. It feels like the drops simply provided an opportunity for the council to ban something they already wanted to ban and get an easy to use justification, just very dishonest imo and I’m quite disappointed

 

[Aurist]

To be clear the intent is very much to have a retest of some sort and the council were not discussing what action to take on BP before the drops, the only discussion going on at all was the direction of the shifts.

What we WERE doing was playing and viewing games and BP was very obviously going to be taking over play throughout the upcoming tournaments to the point that we felt it would stifle meta development majorly during an important period for the tier. The council voted unanimously to do this and didn't do so lightly. From my personal POV it's better to take action prior to a major tour than to end up in a situation where we have to take action mid way through a tour.

Regarding Farfetch'd it was indeed seeming like a problem but Venomoth was emerging to be as much of a problem if not even more, as a mon with all the same tools as it had before shifts.

I'm sorry that the approach has made some of you unhappy, we had the discussion in public rooms which anyone could have chimed in on and we got next to 0 backlash to the idea until after the post finally got made. This decision was never going to be permanent though, we were always going to revisit BP asap and I'm glad this has galvanised people to get involved if nothing else.