I would be very happy if something is done about Kyurem honestly, but happens what happens i will continue to be addicted to this tier lol
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
I honestly feel like no mons warrant a ban rn. Kyurem and Woger are obviously very threatening but it's not too hard to out-offense them.
Woger is very easy to revenge kill and relatively predictable in its sets. While there's basically no specific counters to it outside of something super niche like tera grass pech / one of the birds, there's a plethora of checks who woger would need to tera to beat 1v1 in the first place
Kyurem is alot harder to wall and has some checks like ttar or crown but they're very easy to wear down, or somewhat harder to fit into a team. That being said, as long as your team doesn't give Kyurem too much free entry points you should be fine against it. It's not too hard to do and it doesn't really ohko alot back besides mons weak to freeze dry
Woger is very easy to revenge kill and relatively predictable in its sets. While there's basically no specific counters to it outside of something super niche like tera grass pech / one of the birds, there's a plethora of checks who woger would need to tera to beat 1v1 in the first place
Kyurem is alot harder to wall and has some checks like ttar or crown but they're very easy to wear down, or somewhat harder to fit into a team. That being said, as long as your team doesn't give Kyurem too much free entry points you should be fine against it. It's not too hard to do and it doesn't really ohko alot back besides mons weak to freeze dry
Gonna get laugh reacted for this, but at this stage I think I would like Mola gone. Both AV and the standard wishtect shit have become cancerous to deal with, especially since Wellspring isn't even a great long-term check (hazards just outlast it, Mola has Tickle to soften Wellspring's blow against an incoming Pecharunt or Grass-type like Ogerpon, and it gets chipped + Para'd by Body Slam eventually). U can't even pretend that this mon is carrying balanced or stall when this mon enables nearly every single trade demon balance breaker known to man between Ursaluna, Hoopa-U, probably 5 others I am missing right now - either via free pivots with AV or full heals with WishTect. It does some cool shit tbf - being a blanket special check is great, slow pivoting into breakers is cool, and Wishtect can enable a lot of cool lower tier mons, but it also makes many of the strongest mons in the tier more difficult to deal with - either via the free pivots or by making them unbreakable. Planning on mentioning it in the survey.
On the flipside, I think offense could be nerfed asw with Light Clay ban (think screens are a bit too MU fishy for my liking) and I suppose an Ogerpon-W suspect asw (though I personally think its on the finer side, many other players don't like its presence and the positives it does bring would be lessoned if mola suspect is also considered). Tera Blast ban would be ideal but not likely. I'm thinking Deo-S could perhaps be looked at over Light Clay since it is the best screens setter from what I've seen + has a few very annoying sets for Fat due to its speed tier and versatility, but it is also a bit fishy itself and I think screens are the bigger issue anyways. w/ other mons like Dragapult also being solid setters.
That said at this stage I don't expect anything to be looked at. Maybe Kyurem #3 if players want it. Tera Blast ship has sailed, Screens probably won't be looked at, and I feel most of the suspect targets are kinda edging the line a lot more than prior suspects.
On the flipside, I think offense could be nerfed asw with Light Clay ban (think screens are a bit too MU fishy for my liking) and I suppose an Ogerpon-W suspect asw (though I personally think its on the finer side, many other players don't like its presence and the positives it does bring would be lessoned if mola suspect is also considered). Tera Blast ban would be ideal but not likely. I'm thinking Deo-S could perhaps be looked at over Light Clay since it is the best screens setter from what I've seen + has a few very annoying sets for Fat due to its speed tier and versatility, but it is also a bit fishy itself and I think screens are the bigger issue anyways. w/ other mons like Dragapult also being solid setters.
That said at this stage I don't expect anything to be looked at. Maybe Kyurem #3 if players want it. Tera Blast ship has sailed, Screens probably won't be looked at, and I feel most of the suspect targets are kinda edging the line a lot more than prior suspects.
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may I ask, what is the point of a survey in the first place if tournaments will just serve as an excuse to not do anything?
Tbh this is right on the money, mola is definitely an unhealthy mon that tends to exacerbate how difficult breakers are to deal with in this tier by giving them endless free switchins (including wellspring itself, funnily enough).
This is the only thing outside of select mons I'd appreciate. Having played a lot more recently, I find the sheer numbers of screens usage to be more suffocating as a trend than not. Sure defog can help, but these teams are often very easy to pilot unless you decide to yoink them with Cinderace lmao
I'm going to delve into the unrealistic and unexpected, regardless of the reacts, it's good to see different opinions like Eeveeto and Magcargo.
I agree about Gholdengo, my biggest regret is that we didn't have an experience without Gholdengo in SV. The hazard war is very unbalanced in SV, you put it with near-zero risk and you need to set up real complexes for removal/prevention with double Defog cores, Ace + Elephant Spinner, Hatterene, etc.
I also agree about Gliscor. I can't count how many times Gliscor was unable to return to the game due to Stealth Rock -12.5% health, but then Protect, Protect and ended the game at full health. In addition to providing progress with Knock Off, Toxic and Spikes while also ignoring the same 3.
Alomomola provides long-term support for things that shouldn't exist in the long term like Ursaluna, without a cost as high as Healing Wish (although Alomomola still has access).
I agree about Light Clay, but here's my take:
. Remember how many of us wondered in the last survey why the hell Walking Wake is listed here? And it's not just WW, we have a whole list of solid abusers, and 8 (7) turns of Sun support is way too oppressive. WW and friends can overwhelm several other playstyles without much thought, or without any thought at all.
So the line of thinking is similar to Light Clay, nerfing something where nothing individually seems that urgent, but combined it becomes something almost non-interactive and mu fish.
I still wanted to see some action about Ceruledge, Kyurem, Kingambit, Waterpon and Dragonite (not necessarily a ban), but we don't have a schedule for all of that until generation 10.
And if anyone has Ting Lu stuck in their throat wanting to write about it, feel free, I understand the feeling.
I just hope I stay in the top 250 of the ladder (or the list wasn't made before I peak in last night) to vote survey as qualified, since my enjoyment isn't very good to keep playing anymore.
I agree about Gholdengo, my biggest regret is that we didn't have an experience without Gholdengo in SV. The hazard war is very unbalanced in SV, you put it with near-zero risk and you need to set up real complexes for removal/prevention with double Defog cores, Ace + Elephant Spinner, Hatterene, etc.
I also agree about Gliscor. I can't count how many times Gliscor was unable to return to the game due to Stealth Rock -12.5% health, but then Protect, Protect and ended the game at full health. In addition to providing progress with Knock Off, Toxic and Spikes while also ignoring the same 3.
Alomomola provides long-term support for things that shouldn't exist in the long term like Ursaluna, without a cost as high as Healing Wish (although Alomomola still has access).
I agree about Light Clay, but here's my take:
. Remember how many of us wondered in the last survey why the hell Walking Wake is listed here? And it's not just WW, we have a whole list of solid abusers, and 8 (7) turns of Sun support is way too oppressive. WW and friends can overwhelm several other playstyles without much thought, or without any thought at all.So the line of thinking is similar to Light Clay, nerfing something where nothing individually seems that urgent, but combined it becomes something almost non-interactive and mu fish.
I still wanted to see some action about Ceruledge, Kyurem, Kingambit, Waterpon and Dragonite (not necessarily a ban), but we don't have a schedule for all of that until generation 10.
And if anyone has Ting Lu stuck in their throat wanting to write about it, feel free, I understand the feeling.
I just hope I stay in the top 250 of the ladder (or the list wasn't made before I peak in last night) to vote survey as qualified, since my enjoyment isn't very good to keep playing anymore.
I super agree with this, these days I never make a team that's not double hazard control or bootspam. I will say that those are pretty effective tools against these kind of teamstyles for the most part
I also agree w/ this take here, theres so much brainless stuff (like screens/weather) that just encourages more matchup-fish teamstyles.I agree about Light Clay, but here's my take:
So the line of thinking is similar to Light Clay, nerfing something where nothing individually seems that urgent, but combined it becomes something almost non-interactive and mu fish.
I still wanted to see some action about Ceruledge, Kyurem, Kingambit, Waterpon and Dragonite (not necessarily a ban), but we don't have a schedule for all of that until generation 10.
It might be a hot take to say that Ceruledge is the one I want gone the most. This mon is genuinely so oppressive to fight, and sometimes straight up discourages you from hitting it because of weak armor. Its existence in the match alone can pressure you to make moves you probably wouldn't before
Lu's obviously good, but it doesn't feel banworthy. It holds the tier together in a lot of ways (It literally checks like half of it) and I think removing it would definitely be more of a negative than a positive
We are discussing the potential inclusion of Light Clay on the survey, but I doubt Heat Rock or Walking Wake make it on.
For the ppl wanting to suspect Light Clay, consider the alternative of suspecting Deo. Light Clay was never a talking point for bans up until ppl realized Deoxys was a way better screens setter with its unmatched speed and endless utility options that Alolatales couldn’t even dream of.
With that said I wouldn’t suspect screens. Screens has seen shockingly low usage in SPL thus far (only two uses with a 50/50 winrate, and tho we cannot make metagame judgements off of 2 weeks worth of SPL, it does show how players are prepping for Screens.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-902733
Screens like any HO structure is susceptible to anti-offense options like Zapdos, Dtail Dnite, Ting-Lu, etc. Heileone’s 2024 ahh team is also packing options like Scarf Ghold, T-Wave Clef, and Encore Samu which can disrupt Kate’s legion of setup sweepers. Even just having one of these would be enough for the matchup.
The screens/Ceruledge scare was the result of a playstyle/mon exploiting common trends at the time. Now we’ll expect to see another meta shift during the SPL era of 2026 SV OU in response to it. Ceruledge was a Pokemon that wasn’t accounted for, and it thus wrecked unprepared team structures. It was the same with Darkrai back in early 2024 and with SD Gliscor before G-Weez became a popular Balance staple.
I’d also like to say that hazard stack is more tame nowadays. It is still an incredibly popular piece of the SV OU meta, but the popularity of Treads and Hatt from last year continues to prosper in the Big 26 meta.
Mola is a cheap fuck but I don’t think its textbook broken. Molaluna-esche cores haven’t been relevant for like a year so idk where the complaints are coming from. I think AV Mola is a great glue that has helped free up teambuilding by blanket checking half the specially oriented threats and letting you run offensive Dark types like speedy Kingambit, Specs Rai, etc. Its still vulnerable to hazards and Knock which most teams running special spam should be running anyways. AV Mola is also worse at tanking Tusk Headlong and other strong physical hits. This is also without mentioning its worst matchups, Wellspring, Specs Kyurem, and G-Weez.
With that said I wouldn’t suspect screens. Screens has seen shockingly low usage in SPL thus far (only two uses with a 50/50 winrate, and tho we cannot make metagame judgements off of 2 weeks worth of SPL, it does show how players are prepping for Screens.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-902733
Screens like any HO structure is susceptible to anti-offense options like Zapdos, Dtail Dnite, Ting-Lu, etc. Heileone’s 2024 ahh team is also packing options like Scarf Ghold, T-Wave Clef, and Encore Samu which can disrupt Kate’s legion of setup sweepers. Even just having one of these would be enough for the matchup.
The screens/Ceruledge scare was the result of a playstyle/mon exploiting common trends at the time. Now we’ll expect to see another meta shift during the SPL era of 2026 SV OU in response to it. Ceruledge was a Pokemon that wasn’t accounted for, and it thus wrecked unprepared team structures. It was the same with Darkrai back in early 2024 and with SD Gliscor before G-Weez became a popular Balance staple.
I’d also like to say that hazard stack is more tame nowadays. It is still an incredibly popular piece of the SV OU meta, but the popularity of Treads and Hatt from last year continues to prosper in the Big 26 meta.
Mola is a cheap fuck but I don’t think its textbook broken. Molaluna-esche cores haven’t been relevant for like a year so idk where the complaints are coming from. I think AV Mola is a great glue that has helped free up teambuilding by blanket checking half the specially oriented threats and letting you run offensive Dark types like speedy Kingambit, Specs Rai, etc. Its still vulnerable to hazards and Knock which most teams running special spam should be running anyways. AV Mola is also worse at tanking Tusk Headlong and other strong physical hits. This is also without mentioning its worst matchups, Wellspring, Specs Kyurem, and G-Weez.