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OU SPL XVII SM Discussion

Drachenkeule

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SM Cores (Starters in Bold + potential subs):

:Gardevoir-Mega: Congretation of the Classiest: Dj Breloominati♬, Piyu,
:Raikou: Circus Maximus Tiger: Tace, Noname6293, Zaza
:Lycanroc: Wi-Fi Wolfpack: Gondra, Bbeeaa, Sacri´
:Tyrantrum: Dragonspiral Tyrants: Vert, Tenebricite, Baddy
:Alakazam-Mega: Indie Scooters: Drachenkeule, Ox the Fox
:Garchomp: Stark Sharks: DeeJ, Fdmw
:Marowak-Alola: Team Raiders: Charmflash, Fc, Eternal Spirit
:Entei: Alpha Ruiners: Metallica, ChrisPBacon, Devin, PZZ
:Snorlax: Ever Grande BIGS: GeniusX, Larry, Stareal
:Suicune: Cryonicle: RobJr, C0mp, MGdos 16, Luigi

Hf with discussing!


 
FIRSTTT!!
Let’s get straight into it.


Congregation of the Classiest: DJ Breloominati♬, Piyu
Spitfire is a very solid SM player with consistent results, and this is clearly his comfort tier. He’s shown up well in Masters and other tours featuring SM OU. I’m honestly rooting for this slot—expecting some really good games. I’d say 5–6 wins is very doable. Support isn’t amazing, but he’s more than capable of prepping on his own.

Circus Maximus Tiger: Tace, Noname6293, Zaza
This slot is just fun to watch. Tace has a strong SM OU record, which shows in his tournament performances. This time around, he’s backed by rookie Noname and former SPL player Zaza. Zaza’s a known SM builder and a solid fallback option, while Noname is also quite competent in the tier. Overall, good support here—I’d expect Tace to finish positive.


Wi-Fi Wolfpack: Gondra, Bbeeaa, Sacri´
FREE MY GOAT BBEEAA. Gondra is basically an SPL regular at this point. He’s backed by Bbeeaa, who’s won SM Circuit and openly claims SM as his best tier—with results to back it up (great SM showings in OUPL). Gondra skipped the last SPL, and before that he was on ORAS OU, so I’m really excited to see what he brings to SM this season.

Dragonspiral Tyrants: Vert, Tenebricite, Baddy
This slot is… confusing, to say the least. Vert tier-locked himself out of SV OU and is now playing SM OU in SPL for the first time. That said, he did have a decent SM showing in Masters if I remember correctly. He’s supported by Tenebricite, a known SM mainer, and Baddy, who had an impressive Circuit run and made finals this year. Definitely an interesting slot to watch.


Indie Scooters: Drachenkeule, Ox the Fox
Drach had a great debut last time with the Sharks, going positive in a pretty tough pool at 8k. He also had strong support back then (Giannis, why ad, Star). This time, he’s on the Scooters with comparatively limited support, which could be an issue. Still excited to see how he adapts. Pais is available as a sub if needed.


Stark Sharks: DeeJ, Fdmw
DeeJ has been excellent in Masters for the past two years and finally finds himself on the Sharks. He’s a strong clicker and has tons of backing—Mind Gaming, Santu, Michael, and FDMW. Speaking of FDMW, he’s had great results across multiple OU tours with SM this year, all positive records. Hope he gets enough chances to really shine.

Team Raiders: Charmflash, Fc, Eternal Spirit
Charmflash had a rough last SPL (3–6), which probably explains the price drop from 12.5k to 3k. But people forget he once went 8–3 and is a very capable SM builder—even if some of his teams get a bit… experimental. With Fc and Eternal Spirit as support/sub options, this slot has more depth than it might seem.


Alpha Ruiners: Metallica, ChrisPBacon, Devin, PZZ
Easily my highest-rated slot. Metallica is insane, and the support here is just absurd—Chris, Devin, PZZ, Enzo, Ima, Empo and Nagol (who decked soulwind with freakin mantine). It’s stacked. I fully expect Metallica to farm this pool. Devin and PZZ are also very reliable subs if needed. Go Ruiners.


Ever Grande BIGS: GeniusX, Larry, Stareal
GeniusX has been consistently solid in SM OU over the years, and I don’t see that changing this SPL. Larry and Stareal are reliable backup options if the team needs flexibility.

Cryonicle: RobJr, C0mp, MGdos16, Luigi
Rob had a strong start last year but couldn’t end positive—clearly looking for redemption this time. He’s backed by C0mp (Masters winner), MGdos (SS/SV main but a strong SM player too), and Luigi as another sub option. This slot has more support than most teams outside of Ruiners, which could really help them edge ahead.




As always, this was done purely for fun (and to like-whore). None of this is meant to be personal—don’t take it to heart.


Biggest snub in this tier has to be Abele not getting drafted despite winning Circuit and having a great showing. Your time will come, brother. (Drink some water.)


Wishing everyone a great SPL season—looking forward to clean games and some exciting new team dynamics
:reshiram:
 
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FIRSTTT!!
Let’s get straight into it.


Congregation of the Classiest: DJ Breloominati♬, Piyu
Spitfire is a very solid SM player with consistent results, and this is clearly his comfort tier. He’s shown up well in Masters and other tours featuring SM OU. I’m honestly rooting for this slot—expecting some really good games. I’d say 5–6 wins is very doable. Support isn’t amazing, but he’s more than capable of prepping on his own.

Circus Maximus Tiger: Tace, Noname6293, Zaza
This slot is just fun to watch. Tace has a strong SM OU record, which shows in his tournament performances. This time around, he’s backed by rookie Noname and former SPL player Zaza. Zaza’s a known SM builder and a solid fallback option, while Noname is also quite competent in the tier. Overall, good support here—I’d expect Tace to finish positive.


Wi-Fi Wolfpack: Gondra, Bbeeaa, Sacri´
FREE MY GOAT BBEEAA. Gondra is basically an SPL regular at this point. He’s backed by Bbeeaa, who’s won SM Circuit and openly claims SM as his best tier—with results to back it up (great SM showings in OUPL). Gondra skipped the last SPL, and before that he was on ORAS OU, so I’m really excited to see what he brings to SM this season.

Dragonspiral Tyrants: Vert, Tenebricite, Baddy
This slot is… confusing, to say the least. Vert tier-locked himself out of SV OU and is now playing SM OU in SPL for the first time. That said, he did have a decent SM showing in Masters if I remember correctly. He’s supported by Tenebricite, a known SM mainer, and Baddy, who had an impressive Circuit run and made finals this year. Definitely an interesting slot to watch.


Indie Scooters: Drachenkeule, Ox the Fox
Drach had a great debut last time with the Sharks, going positive in a pretty tough pool at 8k. He also had strong support back then (Giannis, why ad, Star). This time, he’s on the Scooters with comparatively limited support, which could be an issue. Still excited to see how he adapts. Pais is available as a sub if needed.


Stark Sharks: DeeJ, Fdmw
DeeJ has been excellent in Masters for the past two years and finally finds himself on the Sharks. He’s a strong clicker and has tons of backing—Mind Gaming, Santu, Michael, and FDMW. Speaking of FDMW, he’s had great results across multiple OU tours with SM this year, all positive records. Hope he gets enough chances to really shine.

Team Raiders: Charmflash, Fc, Eternal Spirit
Charmflash had a rough last SPL (3–6), which probably explains the price drop from 12.5k to 3k. But people forget he once went 8–3 and is a very capable SM builder—even if some of his teams get a bit… experimental. With Fc and Eternal Spirit as support/sub options, this slot has more depth than it might seem.


Alpha Ruiners: Metallica, ChrisPBacon, Devin, PZZ
Easily my highest-rated slot. Metallica is insane, and the support here is just absurd—Chris, Devin, PZZ, Enzo, Ima, Empo and Nagol (who decked soulwind with freakin mantine). It’s stacked. I fully expect Metallica to farm this pool. Devin and PZZ are also very reliable subs if needed. Go Ruiners.


Ever Grande BIGS: GeniusX, Larry, Stareal
GeniusX has been consistently solid in SM OU over the years, and I don’t see that changing this SPL. Larry and Stareal are reliable backup options if the team needs flexibility.

Cryonicle: RobJr, C0mp, MGdos16, Luigi
Rob had a strong start last year but couldn’t end positive—clearly looking for redemption this time. He’s backed by C0mp (Masters winner), MGdos (SS/SV main but a strong SM player too), and Luigi as another sub option. This slot has more support than most teams outside of Ruiners, which could really help them edge ahead.




As always, this was done purely for fun (and to like-whore). None of this is meant to be personal—don’t take it to heart.


Biggest snub in this tier has to be Abele not getting drafted despite winning Circuit and having a great showing. Your time will come, brother. (Drink some water.)


Wishing everyone a great SPL season—looking forward to clean games and some exciting new team dynamics
:reshiram:
s/o chatgpt
 
In week 3 of the SPL, we had at least two "interesting" team's bring by Charmflash and Pzz. On both occasions, we had a Pokémon in common, Manectric. But why? I tried to understand what was behind this prep.
1770165491870.png
Starting with Charmflash, who brought us a team with Mimikyu +
M-Manectric, two Pokémon that are theoretically unviable in the current SM meta, the team lacks of power, synergy and structure as a whole is also flawed. Charm would need to play precisely correctly, from turn 1 to the end, without any mistakes; even then, it's still a difficult scenario to see a win. Charmflash's gameplay itself wasn't all bad; he managed to make some plays and apply pressure at certain moments. However, even numerous "good" plays can't save a ambitious team, especially against a tough opponent like GeniusX, and the ending was what any viewer who watched expected.

1770165565950.png
Pzz brought us a fat team with M-Manectric, cosmic power-encore clefable, and bossnite. At first glance, it's very difficult to understand what this mega manectric is doing in this structure. It's possible to see M-Lopunny, M-Zam, or even an M-Scizor being much better used in this team. To be honest, any mega OU would be better placed.Regarding the game in general, there isn't much to say. Pzz played a very lackluster game, basically missing all the plays or predictions he attempted. The result was fair based on the gameplay.

Finally, I understand the players' desire to innovate on big stages like the SPL, but bringing in random Pokémon isn't the way to go, especially when the Ruiners desperately needed to win this week. SM already has a stable meta; there's no need to reinvent the wheel, and sometimes the simplest approach works best.
 
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Finally, I understand the players' desire to innovate on big stages like the SPL, but bringing in random Pokémon isn't the way to go, especially when the Ruiners desperately needed to win this week. SM already has a stable meta; there's no need to reinvent the wheel, and sometimes the simplest approach works best.
Mega Manectric is an unviable mon and should stay in 2018. You got niche garbage doing more than a mon taking up an entire mega slot. Using it in SPL Stage represents mediocrity and bad prep.

That's what I'm saying, what the fuck are we doing loading Mega-Manetric in 2026, on sixes that happen to be obliterated by the common weather structures of the tier? Of course, neither PZZ nor Charmflash is the only one guilty of this, as sacrificing specific match-ups for a strategic advantage is commonplace for Bo1 formats. However, by that metric, it has become similarly common to take it to the eleventh degree. While I remain critical in context to those instances (of which there have been numerous), I acquiesce that it is the nature of the Bo1 that players look to the novel for the competitive jump against the opposition.

But what are we doing loading 6-0 or get 6-0d sixes? Are we really resorting to this level of match-up fishing in what supposedly is the most prestigious team tour on the site? Is this the skill level that should be indicative of the competitive standard? Why are we fucking fishing while forfeiting some of the most important match-ups in the tier? Oh, whoops, the opponent loaded a VIABLE team, guess I'll roll over and die. Should the goal of prep not be to maximize your odds of winning? This is the peak?

As SM continues to be the most underwhelming of the SPL tiers, any game review of this godforsaken season would be boiled down to me bashing both players, cause guess what, when the competitive standards of the tier are set to nonmainers and fishers, the tier's gonna be fucking rank. Initially, I did intend to write a dissertation breaking down these issues, particularly in the context of the nuances of prep and game-sense that seem to be universal issues with the general SM pool; however, I have been busy with IRL shit (fuck college), so unfortunately, I probably will be saving that write-up after this SPL (though I also plan on writing up a rudimentary guide for newer players and probably something about EVs in the meantime, so it probably just lines up better lol).

Anyway, with the absolute dearth of any meaningful content in this barren-ass discussion thread, I would like to bring to attention a particular Clefable set that has started to find usage in the tier (don't worry, you will find more bitching later in this post lol):

Demon/Cosmic Clef:

clefable.gif


Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Cosmic Power
- Encore
This actually is a set I designed in 2023 while talking to Kustavan, who, for some godforsaken reason, had a fixation on incorporating Comic Power Clef on a six. Despite the snowball potential of the traditional Cosmic Clef (Charge Beam + Stored Power), it is inherently flawed as a wincon, necessitating consecutive turns of setup, often getting shut down before it could get the ball rolling to sweep, or getting outpaced and overwhelmed by the biggest threats in the tier. Note this is a time period where Type-Spam structures (particularly the likes of double-fire HO popularized by ABR and iterations of Psyspam) began to gain prominence, leading to a paradigm shift as the metagame progressively became more offensive, inciting the rise of type-spam structures, leading to the downfall of the old standards of Lati-Pex-Glisc Fats and inciting the usage of disruption such as weather and taunt, along with the popularization of base stat bullies (*cough cough* Cresselia) to counteract it. This led to a significantly higher octane metagame, with the dominant playstyles of the tier shifting to overwhelming the opposition versus outlasting them. While memories of getting swept by the stupid fuck in CG persisted, it was clear such a set would be nothing but a dead slot in the modern meta.

Around this time, I became hooked on DPP following the year's SPL, with bruno's fantastic post on his season being a huge source of inspiration as a builder. As I delved into the nuances of the tier, one thing became very clear: Encore is kinda fucking broken. Despite the numerous nerfs the move received in the following generations, locking the target onto its last used move for three straight turns opened a massive amount of possibilities for Clef, and I had my answer to the passivity issues of the set.

Reminiscent of DPP iterations of the bastard, Demon Clef combines the disruptive properties brought by Encore, alongside the defense-boosting Cosmic Power to shut down the litany of set-up sweepers that pervade SM. Seismic Toss might seem unusual as the sole damaging move; however, it provides the benefit of consistent damage against the number of fires, steels, and CMers that permeate the tier, allowing it to effectively take advantage of its defensive boosts and fulfill its role as an anti-offense engine, either as a self-sufficient wincon or a long-lasting disruptor, shutting down key threats and creating entries for its teammates to abuse the free entries provided by Encore.

In general, Demon Clef has been finding more uptick in usage as an anti-meta option, with two of the four uses of Clefable being this particular variation concurrent to this SPL (1, 2). While by no means anything indicative of dominance, it is nonetheless an interesting adjustment to the increasingly more offensively slated meta.

Ok, that's cool, you may be wondering, so what's the point of this egotistical chronicle about a cancer Clefable set?

While my introductory exposition seems self-indulgent, the context provided is a critical part of my next segment, particularly pertaining to the fundamental issues with the placement of Demon Clef on PZZ's week 3 team: synergy. This specific set was designed with the concept of abusing its capacity to generate switches through the disruptive nature of Encore, be it through hazards or immunities, and the teammates surrounding Clefable need to be chosen with the explicit intent of supplementing it. Mono-Seismic Toss is by no means self-sufficient in forcing progress, essentially being relegated to a dead slot against the numerous regen-cores, magic guard abusers, and hgh-health pools that permeate the meta. You NEED to pair this mon with spikes alongside external progress makers such as SD Gliscor alongside hazard setters than can consistently threaten the common defoggers of the tier such as Greninja; because otherwise Taunt Tornadus-T is going to cycle you infinitely, Toxapex is going to reset your boosts constantly, and Chansey is going to absorb all your fucking PP cause you can't dent it for shit. Not to mention, pairing Clef with bulky steel types (notably Heatran) is imperative to its success, because guess what, Z-moves are one of the few ways to bypass Encore besides switching out, and the vast majority of mons that can bypass this mechanic happen to be dangerous set-up sweepers that more often than not have some way to nuke Clef off the face of the earth with some prior set-up.

Context is essential when considering the criteria of building, and it is evident that the vast majority of starters and their support structures are unfamiliar with these nuances. Oh gee, I wonder why, maybe it's because they don't play this fuckass tier besides the few times it manifests in officials or team tours, and that's why we are using Heat Wave Zapdos as our fogger on a six that shits the bed versus SD Grounds. All the details and intricacies native to the tier just get relegated to nothing more than "just match-up fish: it's the tier lmao". If you slot in someone who doesn't play RBY into RBY, they aren't going to be able to pick up all the nuances in-game necessary to play at a top level, an issue that, believe it or not, translates to two other fundamental pillars of comp: prep and building. Despite its comparatively plug-and-play nature, between the depth of the mechanics present in the gen, the fine details that form the core metagame of the tier, the capacity for player expression, and the variety of viable mons to consider in the builder, SM is fucking hard tier to master. Yes, there have been cases where players have managed to adjust to the meta, and there are certainly noteworthy performances in this current SPL, done by players who do not main the tier, but there are far more who have failed to make the necessary adjustments in the madhouse of SM. However, this is a topic for another day, and as I alluded to earlier in the post, I will eventually revisit the subject with something more substantial in the future.

------------------------------------------

There still is an SPL season left to be played, and to not just end on doomer shit, its only week 3 of SPL. Games will be won and lost, players will get swapped, cool, funny shit like Scarf Hoopa-U might pop up again, and who knows, maybe we might be able to see the pinnacle of competition in what is supposedly most prestigious tour on site. Nonetheless, I feel SM has, albeit somewhat deserved, earned a reputation that precedes it. After all, what use is there in finding consistency when its all just a game of match-up fishing? Who cares about innovation, as long as I can win the game in front of me, what matters? Who needs to know nuances of the tier when its just big button beats smaller button? Why even bother with the meta at all?

The tier is full of potential, and as a competitor, a builder, a prepper, and someone who has burned thousands of hours into the tier, I can't help but feel like its all being squandered. But again, I am getting ahead of myself.

Pretentious as it may be, the culmination of my Pokémon journey is SM, and while it probably won't matter in the long run, hopefully this rant has provided a worthwhile lens into the metagame I spent so long trying to master. Although I am not optimistic, so it goes. We shall see what we shall see. But well, for the time being, that's all I got (hopefully I can stop procrastinating like a motherfucker when I actually have some time to write those guides in the near future, who knows, maybe if I can get something going it might be worthwhile in the end).

Until next time, peace y'all.
 
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You did not invent this Clefable set. It is called mannatclef and MANNAT came up with it.

I understand that people like to take credit for “inventing” sets, but making a claim like this when the set was invented by someone else is just strange lol.
Ngl i think u might be wrong. My buddy zRyan74 came up with it then MANNAT stole the credit on sum coco type shi
 

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Cant be having the less competitive format(bo1) in favor of the 'spectacle' or preparing less teams and then solely blame the players for 'bad' brings imo
Me and some others havent been super happy with a lot of the oras brings/plays(mainly people reusing too much and the odd not-so-great team) but as someone who has already experienced how ass it can be to prep in spl for this shitty bo1 format fishy brings are gonna end up happening, it just is what it is. Especially when youre playing against someone with a diverse scout, if you spend all week trying to figure out the perfect team, that has at least counterplay to everything you might face even your own teammates will tell you you just need to tank some matchups and thats how the greats do it.
I know everyone wants their shot at the 'best tour on the site' badly, esp those who main these fairy gens that you can only really play in masters like ORAS and soon also SM. Trust me this is all coming from the guy who didnt get in spl this year and is blocked from playing in wcop for my country, i basically only have 1 third of masters games to play my main tier. But publicly bashing the players actually competing is just gonna make you look even worse to managers unless you are putting up prime tesung numbers in oficial individuals or something. Just complain about it privately like all of us :pirate:
Conversations around bo3 in spl for old gens always goes into the dumbest places and i know ill get flamed for even mentioning it but it really is the culprit for the worse quality of games in the more power crept tiers like ORAS and SM.
tl:dr be nice and keep playing well and you will get your shot at the tournament, bashing the people actually competing publicly only makes you come off as a jerk even if i sympathize and even agree with some of the points brought up
Also also im pretty sure the manectric team coulda won that with a bit cleaner play? Its not like the guy loaded it and was 6-0ed from lead, he was playing a human opponent.
 
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After all, what use is there in finding consistency when its all just a game of match-up fishing? Who cares about innovation, as long as I can win the game in front of me, what matters? Who needs to know nuances of the tier when its just big button beats smaller button? Why even bother with the meta at all?
1770254945496.png
 
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