Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [ new survey -- see post 21,148 ]

[AlbazBrand]

Enjoyment 4
Competitivenes 6
Im mostly a casual Gen 9 fan but have grinded to 1800~1900 on a few alts and while i think the meta game is often times not enjoyable due to a heavy reliance on match up fish, wich is both a good and bad thing.

1 Dragonite: While i do think Dnite is VERY strong and can be very hard to deal with, it does get shut down by quite a few mons in the meta. Preaty much every team has a way to check it. It also dosent help that if he runs CB you often loose multiscale due to hazard stack meta, while boot loses power and can be prone to knock off on predict crippling him in the long run. While dnite only needs one good predict to snowball, i think he is overall well balanced

1 Ligth Clay: Why is this even hear?

2~3: Ogerpon W: Ok so Waterpon is weird cuz he CAN be cheked but more often than not it will deal crippling damage to the oposing team or provide a win condition. Regardless as of rigth now i dont think shes trully ban worthy due to there being enougph other threaths and it being locked to only tera water. This could change but as of rn i think pon is fine

2 Kyurem: Good mon, but this guys allready heavily crippled by missing certains moves (ROOOST) Tera and sub can make this guy a win con but he is very item dependant as without HDB this guy enteres crippled, and if u wana set up usually u run loaded dice. Regardless this guy CAN be a threath but is decently countered

3~5: Tera blast: Tera blast is weird cuz ive had streaches of time where it dosent appear and then ive had moments where EVERY GAME has a tera blast spamer. I think Tblast is a bit broken. But i dont particularly think it should be banned. I do think maybe suspect testing it could be good to appeace the disscusion but i think its 50/50.

5 Kingambit: GET THIS GUY OUT OF THE TIER, YES HE IS A SCRUB KILLER, YES HE FORCES 50/50, YES ONLY TERA MAKES HIM BROKEN, YES U CAN AVOID PUTTING YOURSELF IN THE POSITION, BUT HE IS JUST NOT HEALTHY. This guy is the master of reverse sweeping after your team is worn out and i js dont think giving HO a tool to ass blast you when its been a war of atrition is cool.

Write in: Unban Terapagos, Unban Shifu

 

[Magcargo]

I really wanna love Keldeo. Mon has access to a lot of nice tools like Taunt, strong STABs into common rockers like Glimmora or Lando-T, a great speed tier, Vacuum Wave to pick of Various foes, and Flip Turn. Namely, its MUs into Great Tusk and Kingambit are great, its Darkrai / Weavile MU isn't bad. That said, a few little things just add up to make its life in the meta really annoying.

1. Big Regen + Defensive mons
Big Regen is a massive pain in the ass for Keldeo. The quartet of Mola, Torn-T, Gking, and Hydrapple all match up incredibly well against it, and it feels at times there is little it can do to make progress there. Now, things aren't all doom and gloom here - Keldeo does have some great partners to help in these match-ups - Tyranitar, Weavile, Kingambit, Meowscarada, and Darkrai. But it does make it feel like a massive 50/50 on whether or not it can safely click its STABs, as giving these Pokemon ANY momentum is not good imo. Tera Ting-Lu, Garg, and Spdef Dozo are other notable MUs I find it will struggle vs. For reference, this is how much a MODEST Fist Plate boosted Secret Sword is doing to Ting-Lu.

252+ SpA Fist Plate Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 224-266 (43.5 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Bear in mind, this is WITHOUT Tera. With Tera, the damage is even lesser, giving Ting-Lu ample time to do whatever tf it wants. Garganacl I think is an even worse MU, since that mon can start cursing up, spreading Salt Cure which 90% of Keldeo's partner's don't wanna take, etc. Keldeo itself can be a good answer to Garg fwiw with Covert Cloak, since Taunt largely shuts it down. Cloak also is nice in other MUs such as against Pecharunt, which Keldeo is also nuking for a decent amount damage and it might lure in, here and there.

252+ SpA Keldeo Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pecharunt: 178-211 (46.8 - 55.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO

Still, needing to waste an item slot on Cloak is a massive pain, esp since it'll notable weaken Keldeo's damage output w/ Secret Sword.

2. Awkward MUs against offensive mons.
Keldeo's MU against offensive mons is also a bit shaky. Now, I will preface by saying that I don't think Ogerpon-W completely shuts Keldeo down or anything. With the set I'm running (Modest Fist Plate). Keldeo is able to KO Ogerpon-W with the combination of Secret Sword and Vaccum Wave.

252+ SpA Fist Plate Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 211-249 (70 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Fist Plate Keldeo Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 90-106 (29.9 - 35.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

That said, Ogerpon-W making it a gamble to click Keldeo's STABs is annoying and there are multiple other Pokemon commonly found on offensive teams that can make it tricky to play with Keldeo. Raging Bolt, Iron Valiant, Zamazenta, and Dragapult are also able to outspeed Keldeo and threaten it in various ways. Keldeo's MU against Dragonite isn't entirely bad - you can at least Taunt it - but it is also another major annoyance. Most of the offensive meta outspeeding Keldeo is a big reason why I'm running Modest over Timid. You do miss out on a few key targets like Iron Crown, Hydreigon, Kyurem, and Garchomp, but you also retain a good speed tier to outpace key relevant threats like Samu-H, Ghold, Tusk, Gambit, etc.

3. 4MSS
This is more of an issue on my end, but I feel Keldeo wants too many moves. Taunt IMO is almost mandatroy in this metagame to just stop all the BS that Lu, Garg, Gweezing, etc. wants to do IN addition to stopping other hazard setters like Glimm, Lando-T, etc. as well as setup from Dragonite, Gambit, etc. Secret Sword and Surf are no brainers as STAB, and usually Keldeo would like to run one Vaccum Wave, Flip Turn, or another option like Tera Blast, Icy Wind, or Calm Mind in the last slot. IMO Vaccum Wave is extremely nice to have just because revenge killing Darkrai, Weavile, Gambit, and more is just so good. Additional coverage is quite tempting though, espicially when you look at the damage calcs.

252+ SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 144-170 (39.7 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 173-204 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 132-156 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 132-156 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 158-187 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragapult: 168-198 (52.9 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hydrapple: 316-376 (75.9 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hydrapple: 379-451 (91.1 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Expert Belt Tera Electric Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-Therian: 115-137 (31.7 - 37.8%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Expert Belt Tera Electric Keldeo Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-Therian: 252-298 (69.6 - 82.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Expert Belt Tera Electric Keldeo Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 20 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Alomomola: 262-310 (55 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Expert Belt Tera Electric Keldeo Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dondozo: 324-382 (64.2 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Expert Belt Tera Ghost Keldeo Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 194-230 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Expert Belt Tera Ghost Keldeo Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pecharunt: 384-454 (101 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Tera Electric Keldeo Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 204+ SpD Tera Water Garganacl: 276-326 (68.3 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Running these options is pretty tempting, but you also are sacrificing some key flexibility without either Taunt or Vaccum Wave imo. Being a Tera Sink just to break also isn't too ideal imo. I don't think losing Flip Turn is all that big of a deal - it does make some interactions safer, but it also doesn't actually help Keldeo beat any of its critical poor MUs and can also be blocked by Ogerpon-W, which is rather common as a Keldeo check.

I kinda allude to it in my calcs, but a set worth exploring could be Expert Belt with Tera Blast Electric, Icy Wind, Secret Sword, Surf. If I recall correctly, this set was really good back in BW2 and I could see it still kicking ass with a good partner for anti-Gking support. Of course, Tera opp cost is certainly an issue, as is losing Taunt. Tera Blast Ghost sets are a tougher sell, since you become weak to a lot of mons you are suppose to check. I think you'd probably run something like Surf / Secret Sword / Vaccum Wave / TBGhold to still maintain decent MUs vs Darkrai, Weavile, and Gambit.

4. Conclusion
I think Keldeo is a good mon with a lot of room for exploration, but I find its flaws to be a bit difficult to overcome. Perhaps a new set, team comp, or some other kind of innovation is needed to make it a staple again.

 

[Eeveeto]

I really wanna love Keldeo.

Bro, you are Fire-Rock, you should hate that horse, it will kill you with both STABs!

Now, Rain is a style in which Keldeo could potentially be good. Waterpon is going to be a massive problem, but thats going to happen regardless of the Water Mons you use. Apart from the nuclear power of Specs Hydro Pump, Keldeo offers a good Kingambit check for Rain. A month ago, I had to build a Secret Santa team for SS OU with Specs Keldeo and after trying several things, the one that best worked for me was Rain, as seen in my post on the matter: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ou-secret-santa-2025.3775395/page-2#post-10818256

Rain is harder to use in SV than in SS (but not much harder, SS Rain was a little overrated while SV one is underrated), but still I think the pony can work this generation too there.

 

[MomanNoamm]

I see Keldeo as almost a sidegrade to Wake. Specs Keld hits slightly harder, having priority is nice, and secret sword is nice for things like bliss, but Wake’s better type, sun synergy, access to knock on boots sets, and (very slightly) better phys bulk make it hard to justify boots or specs keldeo over wake, unless you really need the priority or a dark resist.

Really need to play up the things it does that Wake can’t:
Priority
Gambit resist
Hit phys def

 

[Magcargo]

I see Keldeo as almost a sidegrade to Wake. Specs Keld hits slightly harder, having priority is nice, and secret sword is nice for things like bliss, but Wake’s better type, sun synergy, access to knock on boots sets, and (very slightly) better phys bulk make it hard to justify boots or specs keldeo over wake, unless you really need the priority or a dark resist.

Really need to play up the things it does that Wake can’t:
Priority
Gambit resist
Hit phys def

Actually, that's rather interesting. I will admit I dismissed sunless wake as a bit of a fraud because it hits like a wet noodle, but its combination of traits certainly has some appeal. Scald, Knock Off, and STAB Draco are all pretty nice.

Interestingly, Modest Wake hits the same speed tier as Timid Kyurem. Modest Draco Plate boosted Draco also achieves some crazy calcs vs Gking, Ogerpon-W, and Knocked off Alomomola (though you need Tera Dragon to actually break through Gking / Mola). It's typing also makes the match-up better into Hydrappl and Torn-T.

(As an aside, I think Modest Wake also has potential on those teams running Specs Kyurem as an alternative, but I'll leave that to to a more creative builder to create).

That said, you run into a lot of the same issues as Keld - awkward MUs into some top tier mons, Draco Meteor being really exploitable, etc. Lacking Taunt, Vaccum Wave, and that Gambit beating typin also isn't great. I think its MU into screens is worse than Keldeo since that mon has Taunt, though you can at least run Roar or some shit so maybe its not hopeless.

 

[Heatranator]

I think its MU into screens is worse than Keldeo since that mon has Taunt, though you can at least run Roar or some shit so maybe its not hopeless.

So this just isn't a meme, I do think sunless wake has a niche, but it is specific. It has decent power, but not enough to wallbreak as well as it wants. Good bulk, but nothing spectacular. And a speed stat that is just below what it needs (base 109 is so close to 110, which speed ties moth and pon). Aside from knock and flip, its movepol is also depressingly small and it struggles to fit anything outside of STABs+the two afforementioned moves. You got like, roar, jet and maybe hurricane. I prefer keldeo a lot more since its typing and movepool feels a lot better. Vacuum wave, taunt, pain split, icy wind, calm mind are able to diversify what it does.

 

[MomanNoamm]

Actually, that's rather interesting. I will admit I dismissed sunless wake as a bit of a fraud because it hits like a wet noodle, but its combination of traits certainly has some appeal. Scald, Knock Off, and STAB Draco are all pretty nice.

Interestingly, Modest Wake hits the same speed tier as Timid Kyurem. Modest Draco Plate boosted Draco also achieves some crazy calcs vs Gking, Ogerpon-W, and Knocked off Alomomola (though you need Tera Dragon to actually break through Gking / Mola). It's typing also makes the match-up better into Hydrappl and Torn-T.

(As an aside, I think Modest Wake also has potential on those teams running Specs Kyurem as an alternative, but I'll leave that to to a more creative builder to create).

That said, you run into a lot of the same issues as Keld - awkward MUs into some top tier mons, Draco Meteor being really exploitable, etc. Lacking Taunt, Vaccum Wave, and that Gambit beating typin also isn't great. I think its MU into screens is worse than Keldeo since that mon has Taunt, though you can at least run Roar or some shit so maybe its not hopeless.

252+ SpA Draco Plate Walking Wake Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 20 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 464-549 (97.4 - 115.3%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO
So knock av alo once and now it can’t safely switch in

252+ SpA Draco Plate Walking Wake Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 277-326 (70.3 - 82.7%) -- not a KO
Glowking needs more chip but it can definitely be broken

252+ SpA Walking Wake Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 198-234 (38.5 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not really a switch in

252+ SpA Draco Plate Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-Therian: 198-234 (54.6 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Draco Plate Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 297-349 (82 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Knock av torn and it’s cooked

252+ SpA Draco Plate Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 159-187 (24.3 - 28.6%) -- 50% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Definitely adds up over time when you knock it then add hazards

252+ SpA Walking Wake Surf vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 228-270 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
(If they’re water absorb)
252+ SpA Draco Plate Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 196-232 (42.3 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO


0- Atk Walking Wake Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Crown: 108-128 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Walking Wake Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Crown: 147-174 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Crown gets worn down over time though it outspeeding can cause problems

252+ SpA Walking Wake Surf vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Tinkaton: 147-174 (39.3 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Walking Wake Surf vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 278-330 (78.9 - 93.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I hate this freak

252+ SpA Draco Plate Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 280-331 (93 - 109.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 242-286 (71.3 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I think these calcs in particular are funny as shit

252+ SpA Walking Wake Surf vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 69-82 (21.4 - 25.5%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
AV prim after it’s knocked

Prim still walls wake, fork in kitchen, ceruledge on screens


To me a set like this seems like it’ll need the perfect partners to support it. It’s not as hazard weak as a kyurem but it’ll definitely want hazard control, so maybe teammates like tusk + hatt to keep hazards off its side and on the enemy side. Hatt would also like Wake getting lots of chip on special walls like av mola, glowking.
Treads could also work well here.

Once hazards are taken care of you need to do something about how slow this thing is. Wake naturally being slower than 110 is a bit rough so going modest isn’t helping here. My initial thoughts are either something naturally fast like Zama, but I think this set could work well with some kind of special spam, so a scarfer like darkrai or ghold could be a good partner.

As Lokix’s strongest soldier I can’t forget to note it as a potential partner, who can further spread knock, and potentially form a flipturn vortex on slower teams, on top of being strong priority.

Other mons I think could be interesting include specs ival/dragapult, potentially over the ghold in pult’s case.

Uturn zapdos could be a good pivot, drawing in ground types to draw in ground types like the donphans, lando, tinglu, gliscor
Corv could do the same for fires like cinderace, moltres, heatran.

I think there’s definitely potential in this set but idk if I’m looking at it from the right angle.

My idea for a potential team comp:
https://pokepast.es/410f67171235f68d

 

[RoyalDispenser]

Enjoyment: 5
Competitive: 3

I just don't enjoy how crazy shit is atm. Is not unbearable in the hyper offense way, but games are so frustrating to lose because you feel like the real game hasn't started until both players use their tera and you no longer have to tip-toe around it, the game just becomes too unpredictable/random. I like versatile metas but it feels like so much shit in the game can be one of several different sets, I think its a cool niche for some pokemon to have all these viable sets but this generation has made me feel like most pokemon are gen 6 aegislash cause I can't fucking call their sets from team preview since it can be any number of sets that punish (win the entire game) fucking around and finding out.

D-Nite: 2 - I just do not find D-nite the sole offender, its a by-product of tera blast increasing its set variety and letting it brute force past would-be checks, I'm fucking tired and don't want to see the runner up that will do the same shit. We ban this we'll be here talking about kingambit, iron valiant, or some other bullshit a month later.

TB: 5 + wrote it in to further express my hatred to this. TB is just such an uncompetitive cheese move that maybe 12 years ago I would've been hyped for enabling creative shitmon sets but this backed by a mechanic that literally changes your typing *and* is always STAB *and* is actually strong unlike hidden power which is so hyper specific and sometimes even a random HP fighting wouldn't kill a tyranitar, is just so overbearing. What's also overlooked is just how adaptable it is in the sense its either a physical/special move depending on your pokemon's strengths and you can even just option to run it over weaker coverage they normally had. You never had to be concerned about hidden power on a non-special mon or if they did run it, it would be weak, but tera blast is so strong you can run it just to replace shittier STABs (tera blast flying D-nite for a physical STAB). Tier would just be better without it and it adds nothing positive besides keeping iron moth from falling to UU or some shit.

LC: 3 - I dont have an opinion on it tbh, went with 3 because I could be easily persuaded which side to go on.

Ogre/Kyurem: 2 - don't have much of an opinion on these either but i went with 2 cause I dont have a good rationalization for them either.

Kingambit: 1 - least frustrating of the other mentions imho.

Write-ins: I actually did write in tera blast lol, dry-passing as a 2nd semi-serious one cause I don't think it'd be problematic at all to give some pokemon a pivoting option in a meta like this. IMO anything that would be a good drop would best be post-tera blast ban while anything that would need removed would be post-tera blast not banned, cause it really is just warping the perception on which pokemon are actually broken or not since you have to consider the adaptive physical/special free coverage or more powerful STAB the move gives all of them.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

a lot of people seem to be skeeved out by ceruledge right now, at least enough to write it in on the survey. personally i'm not convinced it's a problem in and of itself, i think it's just yet another symptom of screens ho being the most unhealthy cheese since fried mozzarella and the ceruledge panic is simply the initial knee-jerk reaction to that. i do think the damage output might be something to watch out for but my opinion is still that light clay should be the main focus right now if we want to keep this screens epidemic under control

or digitize myself like tron and go into the forum and terminate daddybuzzwole's account myself

try it coward i've survived worse

 

[pixelpenguin]

I hear your Sunless Wake and I raise you, Ninetale-less Wake.

Walking Wake @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sunny Day
- Hydro Steam
- Draco Meteor
- Tera Blast

This is kind of a meme set but it's not all that terrible. Speed booster Wake with the Life Orb boost is terrifying. I choose Tera Blast Poison here to break past Primarina and Ogerpon as well as a nice defensive type switch into Valiant and Rillaboom, but Flamethrower/Knock/Flip are probably also decent options. Admittedly I've found that Wake is simultaneously great into several top mons and really awkward into others. Draco Meteor is needed for the damage but it kinda forces you out after which is not ideal for this Sunny Day sweeper set. You're also walled by AV Mola and Glowking without Specs or Tera Water. Honestly the tier is pretty well equipped to deal with offensive Water types (minus Ogerpon). I've had some success with Keldeo but it has similar road blocks to Wake.

 

[MomanNoamm]

I hear your Sunless Wake and I raise you, Ninetale-less Wake.

Walking Wake @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sunny Day
- Hydro Steam
- Draco Meteor
- Tera Blast

This is kind of a meme set but it's not all that terrible. Speed booster Wake with the Life Orb boost is terrifying. I choose Tera Blast Poison here to break past Primarina and Ogerpon as well as a nice defensive type switch into Valiant and Rillaboom, but Flamethrower/Knock/Flip are probably also decent options. Admittedly I've found that Wake is simultaneously great into several top mons and really awkward into others. Draco Meteor is needed for the damage but it kinda forces you out after which is not ideal for this Sunny Day sweeper set. You're also walled by AV Mola and Glowking without Specs or Tera Water. Honestly the tier is pretty well equipped to deal with offensive Water types (minus Ogerpon). I've had some success with Keldeo but it has similar road blocks to Wake.

Honestly I think this set could be cool on screens to give it time to set sun, and so that after it goes down ceruledge can come in and take advantage of any sun turns left.

 

[Rekka's Backend]

i think it's just yet another symptom of screens ho being the most unhealthy cheese since fried mozzarella

I'm gonna be honest yeah. The ghost isn't even that bad, its just 'bad' by the virtue of screens being kinda braindead to pilot at times. I don't think it really deserves to go when the issue is screens themselves and not the pokemon. There's a reason we don't really see it outside of screens or the occasional sun.

 

[mcribs]

Oh my god wacky mons and neat sets here again

Talonflame @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
was something i was somewhat interested. Granted, is def better, but i wanted to see how this guy would work outside of those old stall teams. turns out it wasnt too bad. 126 speed is really neat for outspeeding , sending off a wisp or uturn. You could go lower to just 352 speed but and is nice to outspeed with and messes with non max speed . Tera grass is here to go against . neat bootleg

Samurott-Hisui @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Atk / 164 SpD / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Flip Turn
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off

Magcargo mentioned flip turn and i was somewhat interested. It def felt different from what im used to with razor shell but i did like the pivoting. Lets me pivot out of stuff like and . I decided i should put more evs in bulk here. idt theres anything specific, but it does have an over 80% to tank proto boosted tbolt now, so thats nice.

Some other sets i like to shout out
av was smth i thought was washed and it sorta is yeah. but i did enjoy what it brought. in general is becoming more common which crown handles pretty well, even if its not specs tera steel here. being everywhere makes crown better here, and you annoy pech a lot with psynoise. I opted for psynoise here since its immediate dmg is more useful for me against and compared to fsight. it also has a neat quirk of blocking bitter blade, forcing it to poltergeist and at worst trade. fun guy

encore is way too underutilized atm. currently, the way stuff like and variants of handle wellspring is to roost to full and hit back on the second turn. This really falls apart when encore is included, so you get to waste the valuable 8pp recovery, or just punish stuff like a greedy dnite. its lowkey cheap as shit and can really make or break the wellspring mirror.

https://pokepast.es/5bdd89cdd200613d
https://pokepast.es/90af36a705344789
these are the two teams i used to get into top 40. also replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2536519663-j91vik6yvtl1j3n2ny005datjltshjxpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2536582399-uwso2tvrv6p7j9ut6d0tc61rxxfonblpw