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VGC ADV Orre Colosseum
- Thread starter Akiak
- Start date
Orre: NAIC 2025
We had a turn-out of 1 organizer, 7 players, and 1 spectator at NAIC!
Full article: https://orrecolosseum.wordpress.com/2025/06/16/orre-naic-2025/
Open Team Sheets
We had a turn-out of 1 organizer, 7 players, and 1 spectator at NAIC!
Full article: https://orrecolosseum.wordpress.com/2025/06/16/orre-naic-2025/
Open Team Sheets
My team has been eliminated from ADVLTL so I figured I would make a post on my thoughts on this metagame since I've never really talked about Orre at length despite being *around* for quite a few years now. I'll open with the disclaimer that I'm not gonna talk too much about the tour itself. I was really busy for the regular season, I spent every week except week 2 in a different state (or country) and was making safe, rushed teams to load on mobile and click with. That being said I of course had fun and was happy to go positive given the environment I was playing in, both in terms of my location(s) and the strong quality of opponents in the field.
I found a tiermaker that I looked over for a few minutes and arrived at this after giving it some thought. I'll break it down by tier.
Tier 1:
Latios is just the best Pokemon in the format to me pretty simply, and I prefer the Calm Mind + Sub set that I started using a while back in whatever Mt. Battle tournament I played in. You really don't need much more than a fast and powerful Dragon Claw to rip through teams given there's very few viable resists in the tier. I like Substitute because it helps to avoid Paralysis and people putting you in checkmate positions with Explosion.
Metagross and Zapdos stand out almost equally to me but I think Metagross gets my #2 pick because it has the most important quality in this tier which is that it resists Dragon Claw (normal resist is also pretty important to not get owned by CB Tauros, and Clear Body is pretty important to not get nerfed to shit by Intimidate switchins, but I digress). Offensively it does great work with Lum/Persim + Swagger and potentially Agility, not to mention threatening Explosion. Metagross definitely feels like the most essential physical attacker in this meta every time I go to build.
Zapdos, currently the undisputed king of ADV DOU, still stands out excellently here in comparison even amidst the lati twins and boom users. A fast and powerful Thunderbolt + Hidden Power coverage of choice in addition to EQ immunity just makes building pretty simple. After adding a Lati and Metagross you really have to ask yourself why you wouldn't want a Zapdos. I like Sub + HP Grass the most to really maximize the strong Metagross matchup and gain leverage into Swampert, but HP Ice, Thunder Wave, and Light Screen are cool as well (hell I ran Drill Peck in week 5 to combat my Shedinja PTSD...)
Latias rounds out tier 1 to me but I do have it as #4 pretty firmly in my mind. Latias is a utility mon first and foremost, because if you wanted an offensive pick you'd be running the blue eon twin instead. That's not bad, but it often means you're gonna be putting more eggs into one basket, aiding them with a Swagger boost or screens support and a fast Dragon Claw or coverage move to throw in some chip damage. That being said, assuming you don't get crit at a untimely moment, fast screens support and something to enable your physical attackers is great, and there are many mons in the metagame that it can simply click Dragon Claw in front of because you've still got get through a bulky levitating Dragon.
Tier 2:
Snorlax is a special wall that can run Curse to turn itself into a sweeper that patches its below average PhysDef or can just lean into winning trades by running Self-Destruct and threatening kills every turn. I wrestled with putting it in tier 1, but I think the susceptibility to Intimidate, as well as being the most hax-prone mon in the metagame due to its Speed stat, are enough reasons to bring it down to 2. It also does run into some 4MSS, as you really want to run Protect on all sets to be safe from Boom but then miss out on some much appreciated coverage, often Shadow Ball for better output into Latis and the occasional Gengar.
Starmie gets to play above the 110 speed tier which is huge. It chunks the dragons and kills Arcanine with Hydro Pump, gets to click Reflect before CB Tauros can Double-Edge you to a pulp, works as a great revenge killer from the back. Simple and effective mon.
As someone who prefers Latios to Latias, I'm absolutely in love with Arcanine in this tier. If you wanna go for CM Latios sweeps, really the only two guys you need to immediately worry about are Snorlax and Metagross, so it's really nice that there's a Pokemon that can Charm Snorlax to death, one shot Metagross, and still have a free move left to run Helping Hand to further assist in Latios sweeps. It definitely has its bad matchups but I think the utility is so great that it goes above Tauros for me.
Tauros is still super threatening though. CB Tauros has a fast and immediately damage output that basically no one else in the tier has and still gets some utility out of having Intimidate. It can't really pivot like Arcanine can due to its mediocre bulk but it is just very easy to line up kills and trade favorably.
Tier 3:
Raikou is kind of funny because if you look at the mons I ranked ahead of it on paper it has some pretty questionable matchups and not much utility but in reality it's just another example of raw Speed being king in ADV. Either revenge kill a 40% lati or Metagross or set up a CM in the midgame and go for the win from there.
Clefable is the best Follow Me mon which I think was severely underrated the last time I played this metagame and it + Shedinja handed me a pretty bad L in week 4 so I stole it for week 5. Bright Powder redirection is super cringe and probably the worst part of the tier but it's legal and evil so why not utilize it. The attacking moves don't matter too much but it does get Seismic Toss, coverage options, and plenty more utility moves should you want them.
Swampert was one mon I really liked that I never got to bring this tour. In theory nothing kills him which is pretty neat, but if you wanna run Snorlax and Metagross then running Swampert can really drag down your speed tiers if you aren't smartly gameplanning how to get the advantage and I really did not have time to be in the lab like that. Still, great bulk and typing + solid offensive coverage will never be bad, even if it's not a full standout.
I personally don't like Tyranitar too much but I would feel cringe ranking it any lower than 3. Sand Stream enables Registeel which is evil but neat, and also cripples Leftovers setup guys or helps put things in revenge kill range for a Lati or Starmie theoretically. Also has a coveted Normal resist and decent lati/zap matchups so I think all that comes together to rank it here.
I debated putting Marowak 4 but I do think I wanna keep it in 3, there's a lot of mons that it enables through LRod and I think even though most people are over GyaraWak these days there's more to be done with Moltres and Suicune and the powerful EQ is nothing to ignore as well. (Also just briefly from what I recall skimming replays maybe people were sleeping on GyaraWak a little too hard this tour... we'll see if it makes a playoffs appearance)
Tier 4 and 5
Not gonna cover all these guys at length but these are basically the niche mons that I think can be viable and would maybe recommend looking into if you wanna play a more experimental build. Tier 4 has my demons registeel & shedinja + fringe viable gengar + marowak partners, tier 5 are guys I haven't used in ages or ever but I think can be neat, the other two regis in particular seem cool for their ability to wall the specials/physicals respectively, I assume everything in this tier can kinda be implied what their role is.
tl;dr
Latios > Latias
I don't remember a lot of Arcanine being used but I really love that fella
Swagger is less cringe than I expected, Brightpowder and especially Follow Me Brightpowder is Cringe
Dear god I never wanna see Shedinja again
Despite the above two comments I had a lot of fun, I hope I get to play this meta again sometime soon and not like another full year+ from now lol
I found a tiermaker that I looked over for a few minutes and arrived at this after giving it some thought. I'll break it down by tier.
Tier 1:
Latios is just the best Pokemon in the format to me pretty simply, and I prefer the Calm Mind + Sub set that I started using a while back in whatever Mt. Battle tournament I played in. You really don't need much more than a fast and powerful Dragon Claw to rip through teams given there's very few viable resists in the tier. I like Substitute because it helps to avoid Paralysis and people putting you in checkmate positions with Explosion.
Metagross and Zapdos stand out almost equally to me but I think Metagross gets my #2 pick because it has the most important quality in this tier which is that it resists Dragon Claw (normal resist is also pretty important to not get owned by CB Tauros, and Clear Body is pretty important to not get nerfed to shit by Intimidate switchins, but I digress). Offensively it does great work with Lum/Persim + Swagger and potentially Agility, not to mention threatening Explosion. Metagross definitely feels like the most essential physical attacker in this meta every time I go to build.
Zapdos, currently the undisputed king of ADV DOU, still stands out excellently here in comparison even amidst the lati twins and boom users. A fast and powerful Thunderbolt + Hidden Power coverage of choice in addition to EQ immunity just makes building pretty simple. After adding a Lati and Metagross you really have to ask yourself why you wouldn't want a Zapdos. I like Sub + HP Grass the most to really maximize the strong Metagross matchup and gain leverage into Swampert, but HP Ice, Thunder Wave, and Light Screen are cool as well (hell I ran Drill Peck in week 5 to combat my Shedinja PTSD...)
Latias rounds out tier 1 to me but I do have it as #4 pretty firmly in my mind. Latias is a utility mon first and foremost, because if you wanted an offensive pick you'd be running the blue eon twin instead. That's not bad, but it often means you're gonna be putting more eggs into one basket, aiding them with a Swagger boost or screens support and a fast Dragon Claw or coverage move to throw in some chip damage. That being said, assuming you don't get crit at a untimely moment, fast screens support and something to enable your physical attackers is great, and there are many mons in the metagame that it can simply click Dragon Claw in front of because you've still got get through a bulky levitating Dragon.
Tier 2:
Snorlax is a special wall that can run Curse to turn itself into a sweeper that patches its below average PhysDef or can just lean into winning trades by running Self-Destruct and threatening kills every turn. I wrestled with putting it in tier 1, but I think the susceptibility to Intimidate, as well as being the most hax-prone mon in the metagame due to its Speed stat, are enough reasons to bring it down to 2. It also does run into some 4MSS, as you really want to run Protect on all sets to be safe from Boom but then miss out on some much appreciated coverage, often Shadow Ball for better output into Latis and the occasional Gengar.
Starmie gets to play above the 110 speed tier which is huge. It chunks the dragons and kills Arcanine with Hydro Pump, gets to click Reflect before CB Tauros can Double-Edge you to a pulp, works as a great revenge killer from the back. Simple and effective mon.
As someone who prefers Latios to Latias, I'm absolutely in love with Arcanine in this tier. If you wanna go for CM Latios sweeps, really the only two guys you need to immediately worry about are Snorlax and Metagross, so it's really nice that there's a Pokemon that can Charm Snorlax to death, one shot Metagross, and still have a free move left to run Helping Hand to further assist in Latios sweeps. It definitely has its bad matchups but I think the utility is so great that it goes above Tauros for me.
Tauros is still super threatening though. CB Tauros has a fast and immediately damage output that basically no one else in the tier has and still gets some utility out of having Intimidate. It can't really pivot like Arcanine can due to its mediocre bulk but it is just very easy to line up kills and trade favorably.
Tier 3:
Raikou is kind of funny because if you look at the mons I ranked ahead of it on paper it has some pretty questionable matchups and not much utility but in reality it's just another example of raw Speed being king in ADV. Either revenge kill a 40% lati or Metagross or set up a CM in the midgame and go for the win from there.
Clefable is the best Follow Me mon which I think was severely underrated the last time I played this metagame and it + Shedinja handed me a pretty bad L in week 4 so I stole it for week 5. Bright Powder redirection is super cringe and probably the worst part of the tier but it's legal and evil so why not utilize it. The attacking moves don't matter too much but it does get Seismic Toss, coverage options, and plenty more utility moves should you want them.
Swampert was one mon I really liked that I never got to bring this tour. In theory nothing kills him which is pretty neat, but if you wanna run Snorlax and Metagross then running Swampert can really drag down your speed tiers if you aren't smartly gameplanning how to get the advantage and I really did not have time to be in the lab like that. Still, great bulk and typing + solid offensive coverage will never be bad, even if it's not a full standout.
I personally don't like Tyranitar too much but I would feel cringe ranking it any lower than 3. Sand Stream enables Registeel which is evil but neat, and also cripples Leftovers setup guys or helps put things in revenge kill range for a Lati or Starmie theoretically. Also has a coveted Normal resist and decent lati/zap matchups so I think all that comes together to rank it here.
I debated putting Marowak 4 but I do think I wanna keep it in 3, there's a lot of mons that it enables through LRod and I think even though most people are over GyaraWak these days there's more to be done with Moltres and Suicune and the powerful EQ is nothing to ignore as well. (Also just briefly from what I recall skimming replays maybe people were sleeping on GyaraWak a little too hard this tour... we'll see if it makes a playoffs appearance)
Tier 4 and 5
Not gonna cover all these guys at length but these are basically the niche mons that I think can be viable and would maybe recommend looking into if you wanna play a more experimental build. Tier 4 has my demons registeel & shedinja + fringe viable gengar + marowak partners, tier 5 are guys I haven't used in ages or ever but I think can be neat, the other two regis in particular seem cool for their ability to wall the specials/physicals respectively, I assume everything in this tier can kinda be implied what their role is.
tl;dr
Latios > Latias
I don't remember a lot of Arcanine being used but I really love that fella
Swagger is less cringe than I expected, Brightpowder and especially Follow Me Brightpowder is Cringe
Dear god I never wanna see Shedinja again
Despite the above two comments I had a lot of fun, I hope I get to play this meta again sometime soon and not like another full year+ from now lol
ADVLTL Team Dump
Orre Colosseum was recently featured in the first edition of ADV Lower Tier League team tournament. It featured an elite lineup of top Orre players and I was lucky to be drafted myself by the Sky Pillar Sableyes.
My team: 
Larry's team: 
Game 1
Game 2
My team: 
zee's team: 
Game 1
Game 2
My team: 
Nnico’s team:
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
My team:
Noodle’s team:
Game 1
Game 2
My team: 
My team: 
Nnico’s team: 
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
My team: 
Finally, I would like to give a huge thanks to my teammates and in particular For 4LOM for helping me with teambuilding, test games and generally being a great team atmosphere for my first time taking part in a Smogon team tournament. Also thanks to the ADV community and ADVLTL hosts for including Orre in this tournament, I hope this can be the first of many such inclusions in ADV!
Orre Colosseum was recently featured in the first edition of ADV Lower Tier League team tournament. It featured an elite lineup of top Orre players and I was lucky to be drafted myself by the Sky Pillar Sableyes.
Week 1 vs Larry
I knew Akiak was the Orre main on this team but Larry was my opponent this week (but he had never previously played Orre to my knowledge), so I expected some kind of team that Akiak uses, but couldn't be sure it would not just be a random sample team.
Akiak is a big fan of Choice Banded bulky Metagross, as well as Gengar and Explosion spam teams in general. With this in mind, I had built a team with Hariyama, Raikou and Tauros for MB3 that I felt should work quite well without being too predictable as I hadn't used it since then. The structure is in my view quite solid and quite similar to Nnico Iosi's 'Blitzkrieg' team but with more of a balance flavour due to MetaLatiZap. Reflect on Latias was key to prevent Explosion mindgames dominating and Hariyama with Fake Out + Helping Hand would enable my pokemon to break through the slow bulky pokemon I anticipated from Larry.
Akiak is a big fan of Choice Banded bulky Metagross, as well as Gengar and Explosion spam teams in general. With this in mind, I had built a team with Hariyama, Raikou and Tauros for MB3 that I felt should work quite well without being too predictable as I hadn't used it since then. The structure is in my view quite solid and quite similar to Nnico Iosi's 'Blitzkrieg' team but with more of a balance flavour due to MetaLatiZap. Reflect on Latias was key to prevent Explosion mindgames dominating and Hariyama with Fake Out + Helping Hand would enable my pokemon to break through the slow bulky pokemon I anticipated from Larry.
Larry's team:
Game 1
Game 2
I correctly anticipated that Larry would use one of Akiak’s teams, the Hariyama was very effective but Larry played well. I think my experience helped me make better decisions within the time pressure but it was still close.
Week 2 vs zee
Zee is a very strong opponent, only recently coming off a strong 9-3 NAIC performance in SV VGC, but he does not play Orre very often. I knew that I should expect something very standard, I had seen that zee has used a lot of CM Latios but given that it was only week 2 I expected a
zee's team:
Game 1
Game 2
I got quite unlucky in this set but I made some mistakes in prep. My team was strong into 3 attacks Latios but not very good into SubCM Latios. Overall a solid team but I used it at the wrong time.
Week 3 vs Nnico Iosi
Nnico Iosi is an Orre Colosseum veteran with numerous tournament wins, I knew I had to be very intentional in my team selection as he has particular preferences that are varied but possibly exploitable. I certainly expected Raikou as that is one of Nnico’s most used choices, which immediately made me want to run either Swampert or Marowak. In my previous matches with Nnico I have usually brought Swampert and I am generally known for using Swampert in all Orre Cups (live team locked tournaments) and so I felt Marowak was the best option.
With this in mind I felt that either Mosquito’s OC12 winning team or some variant of it would be solid and favourable into Nnico’s preferred choices. I made some slight changes, in particular swapping out Raikou as Mosquito used for Starmie, which seemed like a better choice against Nnico’s AeroBlitz team.
This also happened to be the 6 that For 4LOM (my teammate) used to reach the finals of OC12, but with significantly different movesets.
With this in mind I felt that either Mosquito’s OC12 winning team or some variant of it would be solid and favourable into Nnico’s preferred choices. I made some slight changes, in particular swapping out Raikou as Mosquito used for Starmie, which seemed like a better choice against Nnico’s AeroBlitz team.
This also happened to be the 6 that For 4LOM (my teammate) used to reach the finals of OC12, but with significantly different movesets.
Nnico’s team:
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
This was a very close match, Nnico brought a solid team which I didn’t really want to see, but I still feel like it was a pretty even matchup all things considered.
Week 4 vs 2xNoodle
Having seen that Shiritu (Noodle’s teammate) had been using a lot of Tyranitar and Noodle also had a history of sand teams, I felt it would be a good time to drop Snorlax for Hariyama once more. With this in mind I basically used my W1 team but with Tauros over Aerodactyl but they fill pretty similar roles.
Noodle’s team:
Game 1
Game 2
It was a close set but I think it exposed the weakness of HP Fire CM Latios, it fundamentally needs to be maximum speed to function against Tauros who can otherwise outspeed and KO it with no risk.
Week 5 vs FBISurveillanceMan
My team had pretty much guaranteed playoffs qualification already, so I didn’t feel like it was worth building an entirely new team. I expected Josh to bring a standard MetaLatiZap and so I was mostly between a Registeel team or Shedinja. Since Josh is known for using Shedinja I just thought it would be funnier to bring that.
Josh didn’t show up :(
Semifinals vs Nnico Iosi
I had a rematch against Nnico, who had been struggling so far in ADVLTL but is nonetheless one of the strongest and most consistent Orre players. I knew I wanted to bring something unexpected but solid, and so my mind instantly went to Arcanine, a pokemon I rate very highly but had for some reason never brought to an Orre game. Arcanine is great against Metagross and Heracross which I felt were quite likely for Nnico to bring, as well as having access to Charm to cripple Snorlax and Extreme Speed to deal some chip damage or break a substitute.
After that I was debating between Starmie and Swampert due to their synergy with Arcanine, I went with Swampert as I felt the most likely pokemon I would see is Raikou as Nnico is a huge proponent of it. With those settled I felt like I needed Latias and Zapdos to add ground immunities and check Metagross. Zapdos in particular was constructed to live a strong hit (in particular Choice Band Aerodactyl HP Rock) and then activate the Salac berry which would be strong against the more offensive teams Nnico uses. Latias with Reflect and Thunder Wave I felt added a solid check to the normals; Snorlax and Tauros, who are usually checked by Metagross, but in this case I felt Metagross was not needed and preferred the utility of Latios in the 6th slot to check Zapdos (who with HP Grass would otherwise be a big threat), Heracross and Hariyama. Arcanine and Zapdos were EVed to outpace Smeargle and Snorlax was EVed to maximise bulk whilst still OHKOing Raikou with Double Edge.
After that I was debating between Starmie and Swampert due to their synergy with Arcanine, I went with Swampert as I felt the most likely pokemon I would see is Raikou as Nnico is a huge proponent of it. With those settled I felt like I needed Latias and Zapdos to add ground immunities and check Metagross. Zapdos in particular was constructed to live a strong hit (in particular Choice Band Aerodactyl HP Rock) and then activate the Salac berry which would be strong against the more offensive teams Nnico uses. Latias with Reflect and Thunder Wave I felt added a solid check to the normals; Snorlax and Tauros, who are usually checked by Metagross, but in this case I felt Metagross was not needed and preferred the utility of Latios in the 6th slot to check Zapdos (who with HP Grass would otherwise be a big threat), Heracross and Hariyama. Arcanine and Zapdos were EVed to outpace Smeargle and Snorlax was EVed to maximise bulk whilst still OHKOing Raikou with Double Edge.
Nnico’s team:
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
This set was very close and Nnico brought an interesting combo which I had not anticipated: Clefable + CM Latios. This was definitely a counterpick but thankfully my Extreme Speed Arcanine was extremely useful against the Latios, as well as checking Heracross and CB Tauros.
I made a mistake by bringing Swampert game 1, I failed to consider how Substitute Latios + Follow Me would make my Swampert totally useless on lead, which caused me to fall behind early. Thankfully with some good reads and careful play in games 2 and 3 I managed to get through the boosted Latios and win, but Nnico as always did not make it easy, ggswp.
I made a mistake by bringing Swampert game 1, I failed to consider how Substitute Latios + Follow Me would make my Swampert totally useless on lead, which caused me to fall behind early. Thankfully with some good reads and careful play in games 2 and 3 I managed to get through the boosted Latios and win, but Nnico as always did not make it easy, ggswp.
Finals vs FBISurveillanceMan
I was very busy this whole week visiting family, so my prep was not as in depth as ideally would have wanted for a finals match. However, I knew to be prepared for the possibility of some trademark Josh cheese like Registeel or Shedinja, and so given my extremely low Gengar usage I opted for a Taunt WoW support gengar with no boom. I had used a similar set to win Orre Cup 17 in the limited format. My teammate For 4LOM had innovated Gengar during TPP VI and so I decided to take one of his EV spreads. From there I just went with solid team with CB Snorlax, MetaLatiZap and added Raikou as the 6th which felt synergistic but I had considered some alternatives as well such as Arcanine or Hariyama.
Josh dodged me again :( (because my team had already won the tournament)
Finally, I would like to give a huge thanks to my teammates and in particular For 4LOM for helping me with teambuilding, test games and generally being a great team atmosphere for my first time taking part in a Smogon team tournament. Also thanks to the ADV community and ADVLTL hosts for including Orre in this tournament, I hope this can be the first of many such inclusions in ADV!
ADVLTL Teams moment
https://pokepast.es/c191ea79e7c0701a VS Nnico
https://pokepast.es/70a5116892e4f401 VS Larry
https://pokepast.es/f07d4f915f91c955 VS Shiritu
https://pokepast.es/8e38f7ef1f6de247 VS Zee
https://pokepast.es/bb79141ed1cfb1b5 VS Oops
https://pokepast.es/6833950efb0e66c1 VS Shiritu
https://pokepast.es/ee8eadcfe698eca6 VS Oops
Shoutout Wingulls, Nnico/Shiritu for practice games and Radio Free Nerd Side for helping me build
https://pokepast.es/c191ea79e7c0701a VS Nnico
https://pokepast.es/70a5116892e4f401 VS Larry
https://pokepast.es/f07d4f915f91c955 VS Shiritu
https://pokepast.es/8e38f7ef1f6de247 VS Zee
https://pokepast.es/bb79141ed1cfb1b5 VS Oops
https://pokepast.es/6833950efb0e66c1 VS Shiritu
https://pokepast.es/ee8eadcfe698eca6 VS Oops
Shoutout Wingulls, Nnico/Shiritu for practice games and Radio Free Nerd Side for helping me build
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The next major Orre tournament on August 24, Orre Cup 18, is going to celebrate the 20th anniversary of XD's first official format and be held using the Pokémon League 2005 ruleset, what many consider to be the first doubles VGC format! Rules-wise, it's the same as Orre Colossem, but played with max level set to 50 instead of 100. This means that Dragonite and Tyranitar are not permitted, nor are certain level-up-only moves, such as Agility on Metagross.
Tournament takes place August 24, 1700 GMT.
$70 Prize Pool paid across Top Four.
Please use this link for the announcement page on the Orre website for full details on the tournament and rules.
Follow this link to register for the tournament.
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Seeing the recent ladder, I'm particularly concerned that the format has an issue with RNG. Item Clause promoting quick claw and bright powder is one thing, but standard clauses like Evasion Clause aren't even in effect, meaning it is possible to run Double Team to cheese games. Heck, OHKO Clause isn't even a thing, meaning you can run Sheer cold or Fissure!
I'm personally appealing here, asking for various standard clauses (Evasion Clause, OHKO Clause, Sand Veil Ban) to improve the building/playing experience, so players don't feel forced to run weird specific stuff like Haze Gengar to get around Double Team Cacturne. This, I feel, would make the format more competitive (important to consider when there's a large tourney going on and an RoA ladder).
I'm personally appealing here, asking for various standard clauses (Evasion Clause, OHKO Clause, Sand Veil Ban) to improve the building/playing experience, so players don't feel forced to run weird specific stuff like Haze Gengar to get around Double Team Cacturne. This, I feel, would make the format more competitive (important to consider when there's a large tourney going on and an RoA ladder).
That's not gonna be possible since this is an official ruleset from the XD Gales of Darkness game. In essence Orre Colosseum is the predecessor of the VGC we know today. That's why there are no Smogon clauses except for sleep clause which is actually implemented in the game
Orre Colosseum has been implemented as an official Showdown ladder courtesy of Ruins of Alph! You can hop onto Showdown and immediately start battling!
For everyone's awareness, Showdown has several bugs/glitches that make it inaccurate to actual Pokémon XD mechanics. These are overall ADV mechanics bugs that haven't been corrected for years and probably won't be corrected this month. They marginally change gameplay from the intended experience, so for now the best way to play this format is still in-person on an actual GameCube/Wii with a copy of Colosseum or XD.
ADV Spread Damage Bug ("Screens Glitch") - On Showdown, if Reflect/Light Screen (whichever is relevant to the attack) is active and a multi-hit move KOs the left slot, the right slot will have Singles damage modifier (x0.5) instead of Doubles damage modifier (x0.66). On XD, Reflect/Light Screen always provides x0.66 damage modifier. This is highly relevant to Orre Colosseum because a Latias setting Reflect on the left side can reduce the damage its partner takes from Explosion/Self-Destruct.
Shell Bell Bug - On Showdown, Shell Bell heals for the last target hit. On XD, Shell Bell heals for each target hit.
(lack of) XD Perish/Destiny Mod - On Showdown ladder, there is no Perish/Destiny Mod or clause. If all Pokémon left in the game are KOed by Perish Song, the user of the last Pokémon to faint is the winner. This is a mechanic taken from Gen. V+ and is not how Gen. III works. On XD, if there is only one Pokémon left and it uses Perish Song or Destiny Bond, the move simply fails. That's it. If used by the 2nd to last Pokémon, the game just ends in a tie.
For everyone's awareness, Showdown has several bugs/glitches that make it inaccurate to actual Pokémon XD mechanics. These are overall ADV mechanics bugs that haven't been corrected for years and probably won't be corrected this month. They marginally change gameplay from the intended experience, so for now the best way to play this format is still in-person on an actual GameCube/Wii with a copy of Colosseum or XD.
ADV Spread Damage Bug ("Screens Glitch") - On Showdown, if Reflect/Light Screen (whichever is relevant to the attack) is active and a multi-hit move KOs the left slot, the right slot will have Singles damage modifier (x0.5) instead of Doubles damage modifier (x0.66). On XD, Reflect/Light Screen always provides x0.66 damage modifier. This is highly relevant to Orre Colosseum because a Latias setting Reflect on the left side can reduce the damage its partner takes from Explosion/Self-Destruct.
Shell Bell Bug - On Showdown, Shell Bell heals for the last target hit. On XD, Shell Bell heals for each target hit.
(lack of) XD Perish/Destiny Mod - On Showdown ladder, there is no Perish/Destiny Mod or clause. If all Pokémon left in the game are KOed by Perish Song, the user of the last Pokémon to faint is the winner. This is a mechanic taken from Gen. V+ and is not how Gen. III works. On XD, if there is only one Pokémon left and it uses Perish Song or Destiny Bond, the move simply fails. That's it. If used by the 2nd to last Pokémon, the game just ends in a tie.
Probably won't ever be relevant to your format but fyi Sleep Talk mechanics work correctly with switches in XD, not funky like in Emerald/standard play.
To add onto what's been said above, evasion and OHKO strategies are not really particularly viable in this format and are not really seen as problematic.
The primary difference with Showdown and how the format is usually played, is the lack of a game timer or turn limit implementation. In an IRL setting, the game would be played with a game timer (usually 20 minutes) like VGC, so that games can conclude in a reasonable amount of time. When the time runs out, the player with more Pokemon, or more HP%, wins.
This affects the metagame primarily when it comes to Registeel, a Pokemon that can rack up defense boosts and sweep entire teams with Seismic Toss, if given enough time.
On Dawn, the Showdown side server that hosts our formats, we implemented a (rather lenient) turn limit of 18 turns, to emulate the effects of a 20 minute game timer. It was not possible to implement the timer itself, due to the differences in animation times between Showdown and XD.
Showdown needs to implement some kind of solution, as this affects numerous metagames, causing them to be different from how they would be played IRL.
Until that happens, we're playing the "timer-less version" of the format on Showdown. Most of our sample teams are not built to deal with matchups such as Registeel, so keep that in mind.
The primary difference with Showdown and how the format is usually played, is the lack of a game timer or turn limit implementation. In an IRL setting, the game would be played with a game timer (usually 20 minutes) like VGC, so that games can conclude in a reasonable amount of time. When the time runs out, the player with more Pokemon, or more HP%, wins.
This affects the metagame primarily when it comes to Registeel, a Pokemon that can rack up defense boosts and sweep entire teams with Seismic Toss, if given enough time.
On Dawn, the Showdown side server that hosts our formats, we implemented a (rather lenient) turn limit of 18 turns, to emulate the effects of a 20 minute game timer. It was not possible to implement the timer itself, due to the differences in animation times between Showdown and XD.
Showdown needs to implement some kind of solution, as this affects numerous metagames, causing them to be different from how they would be played IRL.
Until that happens, we're playing the "timer-less version" of the format on Showdown. Most of our sample teams are not built to deal with matchups such as Registeel, so keep that in mind.
I'm sure it depends on the host, but generally how is timer stall for HP win viewed in in-person events? Is it still controversial or has it become an acceptable strategy (or frowned upon)?
I don't think we've yet had a case yet of someone playing for timer stall in an in-person event.
Many in-person events have also been run on GBA or hybrid between GBA and XD, so that makes planning out for timer-stall even more difficult.
I imagine if it were to happen, we'd have a mix of people thinking it's lame and people thinking it's acceptable but unenjoyable.
EDIT: Although, an example of in-person Gen 3 having a meta around playing to timer would be JAA 2006 (not Orre Colosseum, but essentially Orre with restricteds allowed). Time settings were 8min game time, 30sec move time and given animation lengths playing to timer instead of KO's was achievable (or even came about naturally even if someone wasn't trying to play to timer). I believe the winner of the event from back then stated that only one of his matches in JAA went to time. I would imagine that people didn't' begrudge other players though as many matches going to time was likely more the strict time settings naturally bringing about games ending on time rather than someone purposefully trying to run out the time from the start.
Yeah I don't think it's happened yet. But I would imagine it being seen as normal. It would be a pretty rare occurrence, as most games in our format end in around 6-7 turns. The only time you really see games approaching 15+ turns (which is what you would need to reach the limits of the game timer) is when someone is running a strategy such as Registeel. And Registeel has generally only been used when there isn't a game timer or turn limit, as its goal is to sweep the opposing team after boosting, not win due to timer stall.
2025 was a very successful year for the Orre Colosseum community and format. We organised offline in-person meetups/tournaments in London, New Orleans and New York. Other communities hosted Gen 3 VGC/Orre tournaments in Osaka, Malmö, Lima and Cincinnati. In addition the format was officially added to the Pokemon Showdown main server, including a RoA spotlight ladder in December and we hosted our first individual Smogon tournament. Thank you to everyone involved in the community, it will be hard to match all that in 2026!
After the Orre Colosseum spotlight ladder and Smogon Kickoff tournament (our largest tournament yet by signups), we have more data on the format than ever before. As a finalist in the latter tournament, I would like to share my thoughts on the recent trends we have seen in the metagame (no teamdump this time sorry).
Analysis
Smeargle has always been seen as a Pokemon with a great deal of potential. Some players experimented with Smeargle + CM Raikou, especially on Nnico Iosi’s version of ‘Blitz’, the moveset was almost always Fake Out/Spore/Follow Me/Helping Hand, this was strong but struggled due to low Speed and the ubiquity of Lum Berry Metagross, which heals the sleep inflicted by Smeargle’s Spore and returns with an easy OHKO and Substitute (particularly from Zapdos) also blocks Spore and behind the substitute Smeargle can be freely ignored.
In the Smogon Kickoff tournament, we saw a significant rise in Smeargle usage especially thanks to innovation from Smeargle’s endless movepool. I would like to highlight Super Fang and Encore, which excellently capitalise on the usual counters to Smeargle. Super Fang when paired with a strong attacker with a speed stat lying between Smeargle and Metagross that can also deal at least 50% to Metagross turns the tables on Smeargle’s usually unassailable counter. Encore punishes the Substitutes, or any other set up moves, that Smeargle encourages.
The pairing of Calm Mind Latios and Arcanine has shown great potential, in ADVLTL zee and others used the duo multiple times to success and in OC18 (PL2005 format, which is Level 50 Orre) I won using a double Lati team with Arcanine. The pair has strong synergy, with Arcanine shutting down the greatest threats to Latios; Metagross (with Fire STAB) and Snorlax as well as any other physical attacker with its combination of Intimidate and Charm. Arcanine also uses Helping Hand to give Latios the power boost it needs to OHKO. Latios with Arcanine’s support becomes an incredibly dominant wincon, my personal preference is to set up behind a substitute with leftovers to outlast the opponent, but Dragon Fang can reach some critical damage calcs with Helping Hand support and Calm Mind boosts. Dragon Claw + Overheat is perfect coverage in Orre, I expect we will see more of this duo in the year to come.
Gengar has historically been the biggest ‘Noob Trap’ mon in Orre, it has high usage and atrocious winrates consistently. But in the Smogon Kickoff tournament we saw some inventive movesets which utilised some of Gengar’s underused traits (despite Gengar’s winrate remaining below par). My observation is that the most successful players have highly defensively invested Gengar or bulkless physical Gengar. Gengar has the invaluable Normal type immunity which infers immunity to Fake Out and Explosion, with bulk investment, Gengar is an excellent check to both Snorlax and Metagross, particularly when using a moveset with Fire Punch and Will-O-Wisp. Skill Swap was used by several players to enable strong wincons such as Levitate Registeel, Raikou and Slaking while others opted for coverage moves like Giga Drain to target specific threats like Swampert.
Overall, this tournament proved that Gengar is a definitive A tier threat in closed teamsheet Orre. However, once Gengar has revealed its hand it is as exploitable as ever.
After the Orre Colosseum spotlight ladder and Smogon Kickoff tournament (our largest tournament yet by signups), we have more data on the format than ever before. As a finalist in the latter tournament, I would like to share my thoughts on the recent trends we have seen in the metagame (no teamdump this time sorry).
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Metagross | 954 | 80.71% | 49.58% |
| 2 | Zapdos | 920 | 77.83% | 50.65% |
| 3 | Snorlax | 697 | 58.97% | 50.07% |
| 4 | Latias | 669 | 56.60% | 50.82% |
| 5 | Latios | 492 | 41.62% | 50.61% |
| 6 | Gengar | 342 | 28.93% | 45.91% |
| 7 | Arcanine | 328 | 27.75% | 51.22% |
| 8 | Starmie | 282 | 23.86% | 53.19% |
| 9 | Swampert | 275 | 23.27% | 46.18% |
| 10 | Raikou | 260 | 22.00% | 53.08% |
| 11 | Tauros | 246 | 20.81% | 46.34% |
| 12 | Marowak | 179 | 15.14% | 54.19% |
| 13 | Aerodactyl | 164 | 13.87% | 54.88% |
| 14 | Tyranitar | 111 | 9.39% | 36.94% |
| 15 | Moltres | 92 | 7.78% | 56.52% |
| 16 | Suicune | 87 | 7.36% | 48.28% |
| 17 | Heracross | 82 | 6.94% | 53.66% |
| 18 | Hariyama | 78 | 6.60% | 42.31% |
| 19 | Smeargle | 65 | 5.50% | 55.38% |
| 20 | Kingdra | 56 | 4.74% | 55.36% |
| 21 | Salamence | 56 | 4.74% | 39.29% |
| 22 | Ludicolo | 54 | 4.57% | 59.26% |
| 23 | Regirock | 53 | 4.48% | 41.51% |
| 24 | Regice | 50 | 4.23% | 48.00% |
| 25 | Clefable | 48 | 4.06% | 39.58% |
| 26 | Gyarados | 40 | 3.38% | 45.00% |
| 27 | Articuno | 31 | 2.62% | 51.61% |
| 28 | Alakazam | 31 | 2.62% | 58.06% |
| 29 | Shedinja | 30 | 2.54% | 60.00% |
| 30 | Registeel | 23 | 1.95% | 34.78% |
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage % | Raw | % | Real | % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1 | Metagross | 73.76921% | 5664 | 73.769% | 2981 | 86.502% |
| 2 | Zapdos | 53.37327% | 4098 | 53.373% | 1826 | 52.986% |
| 3 | Snorlax | 42.30268% | 3248 | 42.303% | 1625 | 47.154% |
| 4 | Latios | 41.57333% | 3192 | 41.573% | 1589 | 46.109% |
| 5 | Gengar | 38.78614% | 2978 | 38.786% | 1249 | 36.243% |
| 6 | Latias | 34.05835% | 2615 | 34.058% | 962 | 27.915% |
| 7 | Starmie | 22.11513% | 1698 | 22.115% | 637 | 18.484% |
| 8 | Arcanine | 21.78953% | 1673 | 21.790% | 625 | 18.136% |
| 9 | Tauros | 19.88799% | 1527 | 19.888% | 685 | 19.877% |
| 10 | Swampert | 18.61162% | 1429 | 18.612% | 673 | 19.529% |
| 11 | Aerodactyl | 16.08492% | 1235 | 16.085% | 567 | 16.453% |
| 12 | Raikou | 13.84475% | 1063 | 13.845% | 468 | 13.580% |
| 13 | Marowak | 13.34983% | 1025 | 13.350% | 465 | 13.493% |
| 14 | Tyranitar | 11.96926% | 919 | 11.969% | 382 | 11.085% |
| 15 | Hariyama | 10.08075% | 774 | 10.081% | 358 | 10.388% |
| 16 | Moltres | 9.75514% | 749 | 9.755% | 267 | 7.748% |
| 17 | Salamence | 7.38474% | 567 | 7.385% | 263 | 7.632% |
| 18 | Clefable | 7.09820% | 545 | 7.098% | 249 | 7.225% |
| 19 | Regirock | 6.12139% | 470 | 6.121% | 179 | 5.194% |
| 20 | Medicham | 5.61344% | 431 | 5.613% | 191 | 5.542% |
| 21 | Heracross | 5.37900% | 413 | 5.379% | 172 | 4.991% |
| 22 | Gyarados | 5.22271% | 401 | 5.223% | 191 | 5.542% |
| 23 | Ludicolo | 4.89711% | 376 | 4.897% | 190 | 5.513% |
| 24 | Shedinja | 4.36312% | 335 | 4.363% | 115 | 3.337% |
| 25 | Smeargle | 4.19380% | 322 | 4.194% | 123 | 3.569% |
| 26 | Alakazam | 3.94634% | 303 | 3.946% | 117 | 3.395% |
| 27 | Kingdra | 3.93332% | 302 | 3.933% | 154 | 4.469% |
| 28 | Dusclops | 3.89424% | 299 | 3.894% | 109 | 3.163% |
| 29 | Houndoom | 3.76400% | 289 | 3.764% | 132 | 3.830% |
| 30 | Electrode | 3.72493% | 286 | 3.725% | 80 | 2.321% |Smeargle has always been seen as a Pokemon with a great deal of potential. Some players experimented with Smeargle + CM Raikou, especially on Nnico Iosi’s version of ‘Blitz’, the moveset was almost always Fake Out/Spore/Follow Me/Helping Hand, this was strong but struggled due to low Speed and the ubiquity of Lum Berry Metagross, which heals the sleep inflicted by Smeargle’s Spore and returns with an easy OHKO and Substitute (particularly from Zapdos) also blocks Spore and behind the substitute Smeargle can be freely ignored.
In the Smogon Kickoff tournament, we saw a significant rise in Smeargle usage especially thanks to innovation from Smeargle’s endless movepool. I would like to highlight Super Fang and Encore, which excellently capitalise on the usual counters to Smeargle. Super Fang when paired with a strong attacker with a speed stat lying between Smeargle and Metagross that can also deal at least 50% to Metagross turns the tables on Smeargle’s usually unassailable counter. Encore punishes the Substitutes, or any other set up moves, that Smeargle encourages.
The pairing of Calm Mind Latios and Arcanine has shown great potential, in ADVLTL zee and others used the duo multiple times to success and in OC18 (PL2005 format, which is Level 50 Orre) I won using a double Lati team with Arcanine. The pair has strong synergy, with Arcanine shutting down the greatest threats to Latios; Metagross (with Fire STAB) and Snorlax as well as any other physical attacker with its combination of Intimidate and Charm. Arcanine also uses Helping Hand to give Latios the power boost it needs to OHKO. Latios with Arcanine’s support becomes an incredibly dominant wincon, my personal preference is to set up behind a substitute with leftovers to outlast the opponent, but Dragon Fang can reach some critical damage calcs with Helping Hand support and Calm Mind boosts. Dragon Claw + Overheat is perfect coverage in Orre, I expect we will see more of this duo in the year to come.
Gengar has historically been the biggest ‘Noob Trap’ mon in Orre, it has high usage and atrocious winrates consistently. But in the Smogon Kickoff tournament we saw some inventive movesets which utilised some of Gengar’s underused traits (despite Gengar’s winrate remaining below par). My observation is that the most successful players have highly defensively invested Gengar or bulkless physical Gengar. Gengar has the invaluable Normal type immunity which infers immunity to Fake Out and Explosion, with bulk investment, Gengar is an excellent check to both Snorlax and Metagross, particularly when using a moveset with Fire Punch and Will-O-Wisp. Skill Swap was used by several players to enable strong wincons such as Levitate Registeel, Raikou and Slaking while others opted for coverage moves like Giga Drain to target specific threats like Swampert.
Overall, this tournament proved that Gengar is a definitive A tier threat in closed teamsheet Orre. However, once Gengar has revealed its hand it is as exploitable as ever.
Note: This comment is about an event that has already happened!
I want to quickly add this since oopsgtg just mentioned Malmö and there's been result posts about EUIC and NAIC.
In the summer of 2025, I hosted an Orre Round Robin tournament at a speedrunning event in Malmö and it featured 5 players which didn't sound like much but perfect for round robin as every player played 4 sets.
The tournament overall had 10 sets, all best of 3. It was streamed live on my Twitch channel and eventually I got all of the match recordings and did a ton of edits to remove the decision phase footage meaning very little downtime, added on-screen effects similar to official VGC and PBR voice commentary without GEN AI ;)
There's a good chance it'll happen again at the summer of 2026.
I want to quickly add this since oopsgtg just mentioned Malmö and there's been result posts about EUIC and NAIC.
In the summer of 2025, I hosted an Orre Round Robin tournament at a speedrunning event in Malmö and it featured 5 players which didn't sound like much but perfect for round robin as every player played 4 sets.
The tournament overall had 10 sets, all best of 3. It was streamed live on my Twitch channel and eventually I got all of the match recordings and did a ton of edits to remove the decision phase footage meaning very little downtime, added on-screen effects similar to official VGC and PBR voice commentary without GEN AI ;)
There's a good chance it'll happen again at the summer of 2026.
It was nice to have a Smogon INDS tournament and a ladder and to watch the meta evolve.
Ignoring the cheesy 1100 Elo guys (Sand Veil and similar stuff), we were able to see some new sets (and a couple of old ones making an appearance in a new meta), which led the meta to a point that I think is still not fully settled.
The winners of this new meta iteration are Raikou, Smeargle, Latios, Swampert, and Safeguard, while the losers are Starmie and Snorlax.
Raikou:
He is the guy right now. CM Leftovers Raikou is probably the best win condition in the current meta and one of the best Pokémon overall—definitely the best Calm Mind user you can run right now and the best Electric-type. It completely destroys the current meta, and many teams cannot deal with him once he reaches +1 or when his only “counter” (usually Snorlax and/or the boom user) is weakened enough. Half of the new meta evolution I expect will simply be new ways to deal with him because of how powerful and dominant he is in the current meta.
Latios:
Since Oops already talked about how pairing him with Arcanine allows him to shut down some of his greatest threats, I am only going to add that double Lati cores are slowly becoming a thing. There are already some really good teams using them, allowing Latios to be used more widely despite Latias still being the better option overall.
Swampert:
For its main set, Raikou being so popular means less Zapdos and therefore less HP Grass. For the offensive and faster sets, many Pokémon are now giving up Speed, which allows Swampert to capitalize on that and become faster than expected, turning him into a real threat.
Safeguard:
Thunder Wave is as popular as ever, Swagger is on nearly every team, and for many teams the only way to shut down new win conditions like CM Raikou or Curse Snorlax is Thunder Wave or Will-O-Wisp. Safeguard is already at the value level of Reflect and Light Screen, if not higher.
Starmie:
He has lost some of his former selling points (such as being fast, now that Raikou and Aerodactyl are more popular) and did not gain any new ones, so there is little point in picking him. I think there is still value in support sets with screens and Psychic (to deal with Gengar and some other Pokémon), but that direction is not explored enough right now.
Snorlax:
While still a very good Pokémon and S-tier, the rise of Charm Arcanine, Will-O-Wisp Moltres, Gengar, and Smeargle has made him less splashable.
I am not going to talk about Smeargle because I never play it myself, and the main Smeargle player already did so two posts ago. Instead, I will talk about Registeel:
Registeel:
I have always said that he was secretly overpowered and not just cheese, but after seeing more people play him, the only thing I can say is that—unless I am the one playing it—his performance is disappointing. I still believe in him, but I think people need to understand how to play and build with him. He is never the Pokémon you build around; he is just another gear in the machine. You do not build around him—you build a structure that can use him alongside other win conditions. In fact, half of his work is done in team preview, forcing the opponent to pick Pokémon that do not really work well against your other options. The correct play most of the time is only picking him two or three times in a BO5.
To finish this discussion about the new meta, I want to say that the old teams still work. This is not a total revolution, and proof of that is my ladder run:
I had a strong ladder run with a 35–5 record, reaching around 1400 Elo, rank 1 until my Pokémon break started, and the highest Glicko on the ladder—all while using only old teams built for older metas (most of them are at least one year old).
Examples of team i used on ladder:
Ignoring the cheesy 1100 Elo guys (Sand Veil and similar stuff), we were able to see some new sets (and a couple of old ones making an appearance in a new meta), which led the meta to a point that I think is still not fully settled.
The winners of this new meta iteration are Raikou, Smeargle, Latios, Swampert, and Safeguard, while the losers are Starmie and Snorlax.
Raikou:
He is the guy right now. CM Leftovers Raikou is probably the best win condition in the current meta and one of the best Pokémon overall—definitely the best Calm Mind user you can run right now and the best Electric-type. It completely destroys the current meta, and many teams cannot deal with him once he reaches +1 or when his only “counter” (usually Snorlax and/or the boom user) is weakened enough. Half of the new meta evolution I expect will simply be new ways to deal with him because of how powerful and dominant he is in the current meta.
Latios:
Since Oops already talked about how pairing him with Arcanine allows him to shut down some of his greatest threats, I am only going to add that double Lati cores are slowly becoming a thing. There are already some really good teams using them, allowing Latios to be used more widely despite Latias still being the better option overall.
Swampert:
For its main set, Raikou being so popular means less Zapdos and therefore less HP Grass. For the offensive and faster sets, many Pokémon are now giving up Speed, which allows Swampert to capitalize on that and become faster than expected, turning him into a real threat.
Safeguard:
Thunder Wave is as popular as ever, Swagger is on nearly every team, and for many teams the only way to shut down new win conditions like CM Raikou or Curse Snorlax is Thunder Wave or Will-O-Wisp. Safeguard is already at the value level of Reflect and Light Screen, if not higher.
Starmie:
He has lost some of his former selling points (such as being fast, now that Raikou and Aerodactyl are more popular) and did not gain any new ones, so there is little point in picking him. I think there is still value in support sets with screens and Psychic (to deal with Gengar and some other Pokémon), but that direction is not explored enough right now.
Snorlax:
While still a very good Pokémon and S-tier, the rise of Charm Arcanine, Will-O-Wisp Moltres, Gengar, and Smeargle has made him less splashable.
I am not going to talk about Smeargle because I never play it myself, and the main Smeargle player already did so two posts ago. Instead, I will talk about Registeel:
Registeel:
I have always said that he was secretly overpowered and not just cheese, but after seeing more people play him, the only thing I can say is that—unless I am the one playing it—his performance is disappointing. I still believe in him, but I think people need to understand how to play and build with him. He is never the Pokémon you build around; he is just another gear in the machine. You do not build around him—you build a structure that can use him alongside other win conditions. In fact, half of his work is done in team preview, forcing the opponent to pick Pokémon that do not really work well against your other options. The correct play most of the time is only picking him two or three times in a BO5.
To finish this discussion about the new meta, I want to say that the old teams still work. This is not a total revolution, and proof of that is my ladder run:
I had a strong ladder run with a 35–5 record, reaching around 1400 Elo, rank 1 until my Pokémon break started, and the highest Glicko on the ladder—all while using only old teams built for older metas (most of them are at least one year old).
Examples of team i used on ladder:
Last edited:
Post-Kickoff & RoA Spotlight Team Dump + Metagame Thoughts
There has been a lot of Orre Colosseum action these past few months and after my good performances in both the Kickoff and the RoA spotlight tour, I wanted to share all the teams that I've used, hoping that they will inspire other players to push the metagame further, because Orre still has so much room to grow. CTS definitely allowed me a lot of flexibility and I've come to like it more after these 2 CTS tours. I will see how well some of these sets can translate to OTS, but I am confident they can still put in work.
Before I post the teams, let me just mention a few mons that I have grown fond of.
Give it up for Protectless Latias!
Latias is without a doubt the most disgusting mon with its ability to shrug off more hits than it should. And yet it often feels like there's smth lacking in its ability to contribute to the game when it can only choose 2 support moves and it doesn't have great damage output. So we put 2 and 2 together and drop Protect. It lives many hits anyways and this way it does everything I want it to do. I suggest trying this out. Works particularly well with Bright Powder attached :)
Shoutouts to Snowpoint Music, Sabaku and MISSINGNO for pioneering protectless Latias.
I absolutely love Screens Starmie!
Latias is certainly the best screens setter in the game, but that doesn't mean you can't use other mons for the job. Especially on a team where Latias needs to run other moves, it can delegate the task of setting screens to Starmie, which can do a very good job at it as well.
Starmie's main advantage is the speed, allowing it to get a guaranteed screen up before moves from the Latis, Tauros and Gengar. Another crucial aspect is that with Light Screen and a minimum of 160 HP EVs, Starmie can live a Magnet Zapdos Tbolt. Hydro Pump and Ice Beam offer great coverage and still deal significant enough damage, which allows Screens Starmie to retain its offensive presence quite well and as such offers more damage output than a mono DClaw Latias. Yes, this Starmie is also protectless.
Shoutouts to Zee for first coming up with this set that I copied and only made small changes to.
The best matchup fish: Bulky Gengar!
Infamous for being a Noob Trap, Gengar has had a complicated past in Orre. In the format's infancy, it was an auto-include on every team. As time went on, most players passed it over for more consistent options whose viability wasn't so dependent on winning speedties and making every right call. That was when the only Gengars we really considered most of the time were max speed and offensive. And I was no different. It must have been at least a year that Gengar hadn't seen the inside of my teambuilder, so used was I to running other mons and having never really learnt how to make the most of this little trickster. But after getting my ass beaten by CurseLax more than once, I couldn't help but look for answers that could make this matchup trivial. Lo and behold, Gengar became very attractive. In addition to that I grew more and more fond of Raikou and wanted to revisit Levitate Raikou as the ultimate Orre wincon. It all came together when I took the time to do some calcs and finally managed to settle on just 4 moves that would be enough for bulky Gengar to be a mon worth bringing in many matchups.
I feel especially vindicated with highlighting this development after seeing both Kickoff finalists run Gengar in their Finals match (although to be fair, only one of them was bulky).
Shoutouts to For 4LOM who to my knowledge was the first person to ever build a truly bulky Gengar in Orre.
You can teach an old rock new tricks: Curse Regirock!
I have used Regirock quite rarely throughout my time playing Orre. First it was CB, then TWave+Rock Slide. But it is not a mon that has ever felt very strong. I've seen Akiak use a 3 attacks Regirock with Boom, which seems like the most natural way to run it and it certainly synergizes well with Metagross as an answer to Fire types, but that also wasn't what I was looking for. As I said, CurseLax has mopped the floor with me more than once. Few mons come close to leaving the kind of impression a Lax does that has stacked up boosts, enjoys Screens support and just seems completely unbreakable. And I don't know how exactly that thought came to me, I know it had to do with Radio telling me that he and Josh had started building with Regirock, but I ended up thinking "Couldn't Regirock become just as unbreakable?". But not only that, with Clear Body it would also be immune to one of the most common CurseLax counterplays which is to drop its Attack with Charm for example.
So I put it in the builder and combined it with another idea I had which was Safeguard Swagger.
When I finally used it for the first time against Mosquito in the RoA Spotlight Finals, it proved that it wasn't just a theory. CurseRock was indeed an unbreakable behemoth.
Some other mons that are much more niche, but I think have merit nonetheless, are:
Screech Sceptile
CB Ninjask
Please give these and other unorthodox mons a try so we can learn more about their true viability and continue to push the Orre meta to develop further. I strongly believe that we still have so much to discover in this format. MetaLatiZapLax isn't the end all be all. Dare to try out ideas that others dismiss without a second thought. There is always another rough diamond waiting to be unearthed.
And now for the main reason I'm making this post. I don't know how much time I'll have in the future to dedicate to Orre, but I hope this team dump can inspire others to continue making strides in the conquest of the unknown that lurks within the dark corners of Orre!
TEAM DUMP (Kickoff + RoA Spotlight)
Hoenn Starter Squad
Support Gyara
Rain
Skill Swap
Skill Swap 2.0
HeraDoom
CB Ninjask
HeraTar
Skill Swap 3.0
AeroMieWak Balance
Sableye Sauce
Safeguard Shenanigans
There has been a lot of Orre Colosseum action these past few months and after my good performances in both the Kickoff and the RoA spotlight tour, I wanted to share all the teams that I've used, hoping that they will inspire other players to push the metagame further, because Orre still has so much room to grow. CTS definitely allowed me a lot of flexibility and I've come to like it more after these 2 CTS tours. I will see how well some of these sets can translate to OTS, but I am confident they can still put in work.
Before I post the teams, let me just mention a few mons that I have grown fond of.
Give it up for Protectless Latias!
Latias (F) @ Bright Powder
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 228 HP / 28 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Claw
- Swagger
- Reflect
- Light Screen
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 228 HP / 28 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Claw
- Swagger
- Reflect
- Light Screen
Shoutouts to Snowpoint Music, Sabaku and MISSINGNO for pioneering protectless Latias.
I absolutely love Screens Starmie!
Starmie @ Mystic Water
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 160 HP / 96 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 160 HP / 96 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
Starmie's main advantage is the speed, allowing it to get a guaranteed screen up before moves from the Latis, Tauros and Gengar. Another crucial aspect is that with Light Screen and a minimum of 160 HP EVs, Starmie can live a Magnet Zapdos Tbolt. Hydro Pump and Ice Beam offer great coverage and still deal significant enough damage, which allows Screens Starmie to retain its offensive presence quite well and as such offers more damage output than a mono DClaw Latias. Yes, this Starmie is also protectless.
Shoutouts to Zee for first coming up with this set that I copied and only made small changes to.
The best matchup fish: Bulky Gengar!
Gengar @ Salac Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 112 Atk / 44 Def / 112 SpD
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Skill Swap
- Swagger
- Will-O-Wisp
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 112 Atk / 44 Def / 112 SpD
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Skill Swap
- Swagger
- Will-O-Wisp
I feel especially vindicated with highlighting this development after seeing both Kickoff finalists run Gengar in their Finals match (although to be fair, only one of them was bulky).
Shoutouts to For 4LOM who to my knowledge was the first person to ever build a truly bulky Gengar in Orre.
You can teach an old rock new tricks: Curse Regirock!
Regirock @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 204 HP / 140 Atk / 164 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Earthquake
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 204 HP / 140 Atk / 164 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Earthquake
So I put it in the builder and combined it with another idea I had which was Safeguard Swagger.
When I finally used it for the first time against Mosquito in the RoA Spotlight Finals, it proved that it wasn't just a theory. CurseRock was indeed an unbreakable behemoth.
Some other mons that are much more niche, but I think have merit nonetheless, are:
Screech Sceptile
Sceptile @ Miracle Seed
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 8 HP / 24 Def / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Detect
- Screech
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leaf Blade
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 8 HP / 24 Def / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Detect
- Screech
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leaf Blade
CB Ninjask
Ninjask @ Choice Band
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 96 SpD / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Silver Wind
- Shadow Ball
- Double-Edge
- Hidden Power [Rock]
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 96 SpD / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Silver Wind
- Shadow Ball
- Double-Edge
- Hidden Power [Rock]
And now for the main reason I'm making this post. I don't know how much time I'll have in the future to dedicate to Orre, but I hope this team dump can inspire others to continue making strides in the conquest of the unknown that lurks within the dark corners of Orre!
TEAM DUMP (Kickoff + RoA Spotlight)
Hoenn Starter Squad
Support Gyara
Rain
Skill Swap
Skill Swap 2.0
HeraDoom
CB Ninjask
HeraTar
Skill Swap 3.0
AeroMieWak Balance
Sableye Sauce
Safeguard Shenanigans
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really late but orre dump from altpl
here's my builder (first time actually building for this tier instead of stealing teams LMAO, had a lot of fun and glad I had the support from sheepie: https://pokepast.es/1c76418a43877864)
just wanted to drop some meta thoughts.
+ 
Bright Powder Latias is something that I believe should be explored more, as outlined in the post above mine. Bright Powder in general IMO doesn't receive the recognition is deserves. RNG is a big factor in Orre games (as I've learned) and having ways to take advantage of it is what truly separates a solid team from a great one; Bright Powder Latias is one of those things. Cheri Berry is probably generally better but it was great for me (avoiding ur own boom would be so funny LMAO).
+ Calm Mind (NO PSYCHIC)
I know most CM Latios run Psychic but I think a combo of Dragon Claw and Hidden Power Fire does wonders just to snipe Metagross. It sounds like not that much but can really be a gamechanger considering how often Metagross is on the field. I think Dragon Claw is more valuable that Psychic overall because of the opposing Lati matchup + niche mons like Salamence. CM Latios as a whole is something I think also deserves a bit more play considering most run AoA Latios instead. Getting just 1 Calm Mind up can let Latios run away with the game, especially with proper support in Reflect Latias and ways to remove Metagross.
While I understand the fear of Zapdos and Thunderbolt from Latios and even Raikou, I think Gyarados is super worth it. Just the sheer power of not only Intimidate but boosted Hidden Powers is insane (Flying or Rock depending on the team). Add on Marowak and decent play and you'll be in for a fun one, I have a gyara team in the dump above if you want to try it out for yourself.
Feels like a really strong Pokemon tbh. I feel this way about Fire-types in general, especially because Metagross + the access to HP Grass on such a strong Pokemon like Moltres. Additionally, Wisp is broken thanks for ready bye bye
here's my builder (first time actually building for this tier instead of stealing teams LMAO, had a lot of fun and glad I had the support from sheepie: https://pokepast.es/1c76418a43877864)
just wanted to drop some meta thoughts.
+ Bright Powder Latias is something that I believe should be explored more, as outlined in the post above mine. Bright Powder in general IMO doesn't receive the recognition is deserves. RNG is a big factor in Orre games (as I've learned) and having ways to take advantage of it is what truly separates a solid team from a great one; Bright Powder Latias is one of those things. Cheri Berry is probably generally better but it was great for me (avoiding ur own boom would be so funny LMAO).
+ Calm Mind (NO PSYCHIC)I know most CM Latios run Psychic but I think a combo of Dragon Claw and Hidden Power Fire does wonders just to snipe Metagross. It sounds like not that much but can really be a gamechanger considering how often Metagross is on the field. I think Dragon Claw is more valuable that Psychic overall because of the opposing Lati matchup + niche mons like Salamence. CM Latios as a whole is something I think also deserves a bit more play considering most run AoA Latios instead. Getting just 1 Calm Mind up can let Latios run away with the game, especially with proper support in Reflect Latias and ways to remove Metagross.
While I understand the fear of Zapdos and Thunderbolt from Latios and even Raikou, I think Gyarados is super worth it. Just the sheer power of not only Intimidate but boosted Hidden Powers is insane (Flying or Rock depending on the team). Add on Marowak and decent play and you'll be in for a fun one, I have a gyara team in the dump above if you want to try it out for yourself.
Feels like a really strong Pokemon tbh. I feel this way about Fire-types in general, especially because Metagross + the access to HP Grass on such a strong Pokemon like Moltres. Additionally, Wisp is broken thanks for ready bye bye