Resource ADV OU Viability Ranking and Metagame Discussion

[Kollin7]

Is it controversial to say that Glalie is a better offensive spiker than Cloyster?

Yes it is, but also I don't think they are *too* comparable.

Glalie can comfortably spike on Zapdos and its boom usually finds mons like Tyranitar and Metagross (good mons to boom on for a Dugtrio follow-up!)

Cloyster meanwhile has a lot more general utility as it can actually comfortably switch into things like Swampert and Snorlax and the mons it forces damage onto are things like Zapdos, Gengar, and Starmie. As a bonus, it can also sometimes find a time to Rapid Spin.

So really they just do different things.

 

[mielke]

Is it controversial to say that Glalie is a better offensive spiker than Cloyster?

Not only controversial but actually provably wrong (glalie has near 0% usage in tournaments, cloyster has a solid niche and is used often, even tho his usage isnt really that high)

 

[vapicuno]

Is it controversial to say that Glalie is a better offensive spiker than Cloyster?

Actually, I have a somewhat controversial take myself:

"Offensive" Spikers: Smeargle, Glalie, Forretress
"Balance" Spikers: Skarmory, Cloyster

"Offensive" spikers can be played in a momentum-maintaining way. "Balance" spikers should be played in a pivoting in-and-out way.

In general, the difference is that the "offensive" spikers mostly survive and have tools to gain momentum on early game fast stuff (Zap, Gar), but lose to bulky stuff (Tar, Meta, Pert)
The "balance" spikers can't do anything to fast stuff but have winning interactions against bulky stuff.

This means the "offensive" spikers can always do something to make progress. They can Spike and sac themselves on slow stuff that KOs them.
The "balance" spikers can only make more progress than the former if they pivot out of fast stuff and get multiple spikes or hits on slow stuff.

FJ2K if I have time I'll write about what I think about Dugtrio.

 

[goldmason]

Hello,

Going forward, Dugtrio ban discourse should be done in this thread. This thread has not been a place for ban discussion for a while. Thank you.

 

[Kahila911]

Dumb question, other than Starmie, what would be a good Calm Mind receiver? I've been waffling between Gengar, Zapdos, SpecialDDTar and a rain dancer

 

[Jhall99]

Dumb question, other than Starmie, what would be a good Calm Mind receiver? I've been waffling between Gengar, Zapdos, SpecialDDTar and a rain dancer

-Charizard is a pretty solid CM pass receiver, usually running Fire Blast/HP Grass/FP (Or Dragon Claw, but you do need solid Tar answers), & Beat Up. Zard is pretty scary on mixed cm pass offense once it gets the ball rolling.

-Jolteon is pretty underrated, access to Baton Pass & Roar means Zap can run more creative sets, HP Grass Jolt is strongly recommended now that SalacPert is rising.

-Swampert, overall solid mixed offense thanks to Water/Ground, can work with Curse sets to 1v1 Suicune better.

-Metagross, specifically MixGross. Can run Psychic to free up Celebi's movepool & deal with Gengar.

-Salamence, the OG mixed attacker.

-Vaporeon is another pick that imo is kinda underrated, also to promote a nice BP chain & hits exceptionally hard with Modest.

 

[vapicuno]

Dumb question, other than Starmie, what would be a good Calm Mind receiver? I've been waffling between Gengar, Zapdos, SpecialDDTar and a rain dancer

Good answers by Jhall99, and also Jirachi.

In general you will want to consider whether your CM pass is for breaking or sweeping. Not a strict rule but sets with longevity ie Leech help with passing to a sweeper.