Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [ survey results -- see post 21,221 ]

[Eeveeto]

I really wanna love Keldeo.

Bro, you are Fire-Rock, you should hate that horse, it will kill you with both STABs!

Now, Rain is a style in which Keldeo could potentially be good. Waterpon is going to be a massive problem, but thats going to happen regardless of the Water Mons you use. Apart from the nuclear power of Specs Hydro Pump, Keldeo offers a good Kingambit check for Rain. A month ago, I had to build a Secret Santa team for SS OU with Specs Keldeo and after trying several things, the one that best worked for me was Rain, as seen in my post on the matter: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-ou-secret-santa-2025.3775395/page-2#post-10818256

Rain is harder to use in SV than in SS (but not much harder, SS Rain was a little overrated while SV one is underrated), but still I think the pony can work this generation too there.

 

[MomanNoamm]

I see Keldeo as almost a sidegrade to Wake. Specs Keld hits slightly harder, having priority is nice, and secret sword is nice for things like bliss, but Wake’s better type, sun synergy, access to knock on boots sets, and (very slightly) better phys bulk make it hard to justify boots or specs keldeo over wake, unless you really need the priority or a dark resist.

Really need to play up the things it does that Wake can’t:
Priority
Gambit resist
Hit phys def

 

[Magcargo]

I see Keldeo as almost a sidegrade to Wake. Specs Keld hits slightly harder, having priority is nice, and secret sword is nice for things like bliss, but Wake’s better type, sun synergy, access to knock on boots sets, and (very slightly) better phys bulk make it hard to justify boots or specs keldeo over wake, unless you really need the priority or a dark resist.

Really need to play up the things it does that Wake can’t:
Priority
Gambit resist
Hit phys def

Actually, that's rather interesting. I will admit I dismissed sunless wake as a bit of a fraud because it hits like a wet noodle, but its combination of traits certainly has some appeal. Scald, Knock Off, and STAB Draco are all pretty nice.

Interestingly, Modest Wake hits the same speed tier as Timid Kyurem. Modest Draco Plate boosted Draco also achieves some crazy calcs vs Gking, Ogerpon-W, and Knocked off Alomomola (though you need Tera Dragon to actually break through Gking / Mola). It's typing also makes the match-up better into Hydrappl and Torn-T.

(As an aside, I think Modest Wake also has potential on those teams running Specs Kyurem as an alternative, but I'll leave that to to a more creative builder to create).

That said, you run into a lot of the same issues as Keld - awkward MUs into some top tier mons, Draco Meteor being really exploitable, etc. Lacking Taunt, Vaccum Wave, and that Gambit beating typin also isn't great. I think its MU into screens is worse than Keldeo since that mon has Taunt, though you can at least run Roar or some shit so maybe its not hopeless.

 

[Heatranator]

I think its MU into screens is worse than Keldeo since that mon has Taunt, though you can at least run Roar or some shit so maybe its not hopeless.

So this just isn't a meme, I do think sunless wake has a niche, but it is specific. It has decent power, but not enough to wallbreak as well as it wants. Good bulk, but nothing spectacular. And a speed stat that is just below what it needs (base 109 is so close to 110, which speed ties moth and pon). Aside from knock and flip, its movepol is also depressingly small and it struggles to fit anything outside of STABs+the two afforementioned moves. You got like, roar, jet and maybe hurricane. I prefer keldeo a lot more since its typing and movepool feels a lot better. Vacuum wave, taunt, pain split, icy wind, calm mind are able to diversify what it does.

 

[MomanNoamm]

Actually, that's rather interesting. I will admit I dismissed sunless wake as a bit of a fraud because it hits like a wet noodle, but its combination of traits certainly has some appeal. Scald, Knock Off, and STAB Draco are all pretty nice.

Interestingly, Modest Wake hits the same speed tier as Timid Kyurem. Modest Draco Plate boosted Draco also achieves some crazy calcs vs Gking, Ogerpon-W, and Knocked off Alomomola (though you need Tera Dragon to actually break through Gking / Mola). It's typing also makes the match-up better into Hydrappl and Torn-T.

(As an aside, I think Modest Wake also has potential on those teams running Specs Kyurem as an alternative, but I'll leave that to to a more creative builder to create).

That said, you run into a lot of the same issues as Keld - awkward MUs into some top tier mons, Draco Meteor being really exploitable, etc. Lacking Taunt, Vaccum Wave, and that Gambit beating typin also isn't great. I think its MU into screens is worse than Keldeo since that mon has Taunt, though you can at least run Roar or some shit so maybe its not hopeless.

252+ SpA Draco Plate Walking Wake Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 20 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 464-549 (97.4 - 115.3%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO
So knock av alo once and now it can’t safely switch in

252+ SpA Draco Plate Walking Wake Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 277-326 (70.3 - 82.7%) -- not a KO
Glowking needs more chip but it can definitely be broken

252+ SpA Walking Wake Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 198-234 (38.5 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not really a switch in

252+ SpA Draco Plate Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-Therian: 198-234 (54.6 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Draco Plate Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 297-349 (82 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Knock av torn and it’s cooked

252+ SpA Draco Plate Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 159-187 (24.3 - 28.6%) -- 50% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Definitely adds up over time when you knock it then add hazards

252+ SpA Walking Wake Surf vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 228-270 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
(If they’re water absorb)
252+ SpA Draco Plate Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 196-232 (42.3 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO


0- Atk Walking Wake Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Crown: 108-128 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Walking Wake Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Crown: 147-174 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Crown gets worn down over time though it outspeeding can cause problems

252+ SpA Walking Wake Surf vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Tinkaton: 147-174 (39.3 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Walking Wake Surf vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 278-330 (78.9 - 93.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I hate this freak

252+ SpA Draco Plate Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 280-331 (93 - 109.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Walking Wake: 242-286 (71.3 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I think these calcs in particular are funny as shit

252+ SpA Walking Wake Surf vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 69-82 (21.4 - 25.5%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
AV prim after it’s knocked

Prim still walls wake, fork in kitchen, ceruledge on screens


To me a set like this seems like it’ll need the perfect partners to support it. It’s not as hazard weak as a kyurem but it’ll definitely want hazard control, so maybe teammates like tusk + hatt to keep hazards off its side and on the enemy side. Hatt would also like Wake getting lots of chip on special walls like av mola, glowking.
Treads could also work well here.

Once hazards are taken care of you need to do something about how slow this thing is. Wake naturally being slower than 110 is a bit rough so going modest isn’t helping here. My initial thoughts are either something naturally fast like Zama, but I think this set could work well with some kind of special spam, so a scarfer like darkrai or ghold could be a good partner.

As Lokix’s strongest soldier I can’t forget to note it as a potential partner, who can further spread knock, and potentially form a flipturn vortex on slower teams, on top of being strong priority.

Other mons I think could be interesting include specs ival/dragapult, potentially over the ghold in pult’s case.

Uturn zapdos could be a good pivot, drawing in ground types to draw in ground types like the donphans, lando, tinglu, gliscor
Corv could do the same for fires like cinderace, moltres, heatran.

I think there’s definitely potential in this set but idk if I’m looking at it from the right angle.

My idea for a potential team comp:
https://pokepast.es/410f67171235f68d

 

[RoyalDispenser]

Enjoyment: 5
Competitive: 3

I just don't enjoy how crazy shit is atm. Is not unbearable in the hyper offense way, but games are so frustrating to lose because you feel like the real game hasn't started until both players use their tera and you no longer have to tip-toe around it, the game just becomes too unpredictable/random. I like versatile metas but it feels like so much shit in the game can be one of several different sets, I think its a cool niche for some pokemon to have all these viable sets but this generation has made me feel like most pokemon are gen 6 aegislash cause I can't fucking call their sets from team preview since it can be any number of sets that punish (win the entire game) fucking around and finding out.

D-Nite: 2 - I just do not find D-nite the sole offender, its a by-product of tera blast increasing its set variety and letting it brute force past would-be checks, I'm fucking tired and don't want to see the runner up that will do the same shit. We ban this we'll be here talking about kingambit, iron valiant, or some other bullshit a month later.

TB: 5 + wrote it in to further express my hatred to this. TB is just such an uncompetitive cheese move that maybe 12 years ago I would've been hyped for enabling creative shitmon sets but this backed by a mechanic that literally changes your typing *and* is always STAB *and* is actually strong unlike hidden power which is so hyper specific and sometimes even a random HP fighting wouldn't kill a tyranitar, is just so overbearing. What's also overlooked is just how adaptable it is in the sense its either a physical/special move depending on your pokemon's strengths and you can even just option to run it over weaker coverage they normally had. You never had to be concerned about hidden power on a non-special mon or if they did run it, it would be weak, but tera blast is so strong you can run it just to replace shittier STABs (tera blast flying D-nite for a physical STAB). Tier would just be better without it and it adds nothing positive besides keeping iron moth from falling to UU or some shit.

LC: 3 - I dont have an opinion on it tbh, went with 3 because I could be easily persuaded which side to go on.

Ogre/Kyurem: 2 - don't have much of an opinion on these either but i went with 2 cause I dont have a good rationalization for them either.

Kingambit: 1 - least frustrating of the other mentions imho.

Write-ins: I actually did write in tera blast lol, dry-passing as a 2nd semi-serious one cause I don't think it'd be problematic at all to give some pokemon a pivoting option in a meta like this. IMO anything that would be a good drop would best be post-tera blast ban while anything that would need removed would be post-tera blast not banned, cause it really is just warping the perception on which pokemon are actually broken or not since you have to consider the adaptive physical/special free coverage or more powerful STAB the move gives all of them.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

a lot of people seem to be skeeved out by ceruledge right now, at least enough to write it in on the survey. personally i'm not convinced it's a problem in and of itself, i think it's just yet another symptom of screens ho being the most unhealthy cheese since fried mozzarella and the ceruledge panic is simply the initial knee-jerk reaction to that. i do think the damage output might be something to watch out for but my opinion is still that light clay should be the main focus right now if we want to keep this screens epidemic under control

or digitize myself like tron and go into the forum and terminate daddybuzzwole's account myself

try it coward i've survived worse

 

[pixelpenguin]

I hear your Sunless Wake and I raise you, Ninetale-less Wake.

Walking Wake @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sunny Day
- Hydro Steam
- Draco Meteor
- Tera Blast

This is kind of a meme set but it's not all that terrible. Speed booster Wake with the Life Orb boost is terrifying. I choose Tera Blast Poison here to break past Primarina and Ogerpon as well as a nice defensive type switch into Valiant and Rillaboom, but Flamethrower/Knock/Flip are probably also decent options. Admittedly I've found that Wake is simultaneously great into several top mons and really awkward into others. Draco Meteor is needed for the damage but it kinda forces you out after which is not ideal for this Sunny Day sweeper set. You're also walled by AV Mola and Glowking without Specs or Tera Water. Honestly the tier is pretty well equipped to deal with offensive Water types (minus Ogerpon). I've had some success with Keldeo but it has similar road blocks to Wake.

 

[MomanNoamm]

I hear your Sunless Wake and I raise you, Ninetale-less Wake.

Walking Wake @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sunny Day
- Hydro Steam
- Draco Meteor
- Tera Blast

This is kind of a meme set but it's not all that terrible. Speed booster Wake with the Life Orb boost is terrifying. I choose Tera Blast Poison here to break past Primarina and Ogerpon as well as a nice defensive type switch into Valiant and Rillaboom, but Flamethrower/Knock/Flip are probably also decent options. Admittedly I've found that Wake is simultaneously great into several top mons and really awkward into others. Draco Meteor is needed for the damage but it kinda forces you out after which is not ideal for this Sunny Day sweeper set. You're also walled by AV Mola and Glowking without Specs or Tera Water. Honestly the tier is pretty well equipped to deal with offensive Water types (minus Ogerpon). I've had some success with Keldeo but it has similar road blocks to Wake.

Honestly I think this set could be cool on screens to give it time to set sun, and so that after it goes down ceruledge can come in and take advantage of any sun turns left.

 

[Rekka's Backend]

i think it's just yet another symptom of screens ho being the most unhealthy cheese since fried mozzarella

I'm gonna be honest yeah. The ghost isn't even that bad, its just 'bad' by the virtue of screens being kinda braindead to pilot at times. I don't think it really deserves to go when the issue is screens themselves and not the pokemon. There's a reason we don't really see it outside of screens or the occasional sun.

 

[mcribs]

Oh my god wacky mons and neat sets here again

Talonflame @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
was something i was somewhat interested. Granted, is def better, but i wanted to see how this guy would work outside of those old stall teams. turns out it wasnt too bad. 126 speed is really neat for outspeeding , sending off a wisp or uturn. You could go lower to just 352 speed but and is nice to outspeed with and messes with non max speed . Tera grass is here to go against . neat bootleg

Samurott-Hisui @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Atk / 164 SpD / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ceaseless Edge
- Flip Turn
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off

Magcargo mentioned flip turn and i was somewhat interested. It def felt different from what im used to with razor shell but i did like the pivoting. Lets me pivot out of stuff like and . I decided i should put more evs in bulk here. idt theres anything specific, but it does have an over 80% to tank proto boosted tbolt now, so thats nice.

Some other sets i like to shout out
av was smth i thought was washed and it sorta is yeah. but i did enjoy what it brought. in general is becoming more common which crown handles pretty well, even if its not specs tera steel here. being everywhere makes crown better here, and you annoy pech a lot with psynoise. I opted for psynoise here since its immediate dmg is more useful for me against and compared to fsight. it also has a neat quirk of blocking bitter blade, forcing it to poltergeist and at worst trade. fun guy

encore is way too underutilized atm. currently, the way stuff like and variants of handle wellspring is to roost to full and hit back on the second turn. This really falls apart when encore is included, so you get to waste the valuable 8pp recovery, or just punish stuff like a greedy dnite. its lowkey cheap as shit and can really make or break the wellspring mirror.

https://pokepast.es/5bdd89cdd200613d
https://pokepast.es/90af36a705344789
these are the two teams i used to get into top 40. also replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2536519663-j91vik6yvtl1j3n2ny005datjltshjxpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2536582399-uwso2tvrv6p7j9ut6d0tc61rxxfonblpw

 

[Hon07rial]

Good Morning, Smogon!
I have been meaning to talk about this pokemon for quite a while but I always procastinated and forgot about it.




Weezing-Galar @ Leftovers
Ability:  Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Strange Steam / Sludge Bomb
- Defog
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic / Toxic Spikes

By opting for Levitate over Neutralizing Gas on Weezing you add this to its defensive portfolio:


Tera Blast Fairy, Tera Ground, Bulky Dragon Tail, and Choice Band are Walled.
You can switch on +1 Tera Normal Extreme Speed but +2 and higher require you to consume Tera Steel.
Tera Blast Flying requires you to consume Tera Steel and Tera Fire Fire Punch will beat you eitherway..

Calcs

+5 252 Atk Tera Fairy Dragonite Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 148-174 (44.3 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 124-147 (37.1 - 44%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 155-183 (46.4 - 54.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 141-166 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 186-220 (55.6 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 141-166 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

You wall every Great Tusk set other than Bulk Up as +2 Tera Ice Ice Spinner which requires you to consume Tera steel

Calcs

+2 4 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Ice Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Weezing-Galar: 180-213 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You become significantly way more difficult to handle for it as it can no longer deal direct damage to you and Whirlwinding into hazards does minimal damage as you do not take spikes and are not weak to rocks


You wall everything it can throw at you but Substitute, Smack Down, or Tera Fire sets can be problematic to handle.

Calcs

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Weezing-Galar: 76-90 (22.7 - 26.9%) -- possible 5HKO

With Tera Steel, you get to wall every Dragon Dance set lacking Substitute barring Tera Fire Blast assuming you do not get frozen by Freeze Dry.
Choice Specs sets guarantee a 2hko with blizzard and get a chance significant to 2hko with draco meteor and require minimal chip to 2hko with ice beam.

Calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Tera Steel Weezing-Galar: 146-172 (43.7 - 51.4%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Tera Steel Weezing-Galar: 211-249 (63.1 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Tera Steel Weezing-Galar: 146-172 (43.7 - 51.4%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
168 Atk Never-Melt Ice Tera Ice Kyurem Icicle Spear (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Tera Steel Weezing-Galar: 80-96 (23.9 - 28.7%) -- approx. possible 5HKO
252 Atk Kyurem Icicle Spear (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Tera Steel Weezing-Galar: 52-64 (15.5 - 19.1%) -- approx. possible 8HKO
252 Atk Tera Fire Kyurem Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Tera Steel Weezing-Galar: 168-200 (50.2 - 59.8%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You wall every move barring Steel beam.

Calcs

252 Atk Iron Treads Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Weezing-Galar: 152-180 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You wall Power Herb sets if Power Herb is consumed but not regular Utility sets.
Every option for it is completely blanked by Tera Steel.

Calcs

252 SpA Glimmora Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Weezing-Galar: 174-205 (52 - 61.3%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You beat sets that use Giga Drain over Leaf Storm but lose to the later.

Calcs

+2 0 SpA Hydrapple Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Weezing-Galar: 125-147 (37.4 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 SpA Hydrapple Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Weezing-Galar: 216-255 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Weezing-Galar Strange Steam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Hydrapple: 204-242 (49.1 - 58.3%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO

You wall and cripple Rock Slide sets lacking substitute but Iron Head sets require you to consume Tera Steel.

Calcs

252+ Atk Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Weezing-Galar: 59-70 (17.6 - 20.9%) -- possible 7HKO
252+ Atk Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Weezing-Galar: 188-224 (56.2 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

However, this isn't without cost.
You have a worse mu into Regenerator users, you exhert no pressure on anymore, can't Toxic or drop Toxic Spikes on anymore, and very notably can't use Defog on anymore.

...And that's about it!
I find it very neat how a single ability change dramatically changes a Pokemon's defensive profile and wanted to share this to hopefully perhaps inspire more exploration of it.

 

[kerosne]

Hi everyone,

I’m completely new to Smogon and competitive Pokémon. I actually discovered Smogon very recently after a viewer mentioned it while I was streaming Pokémon on Twitch.

I’m playing on Pokémon Showdown and I want to start learning the OU format properly. As a beginner, I’d like to start with a meta or good offensive / sweeping team, and later on I’m interested in learning how stall teams work as well.

If anyone is willing to share a basic OU team (even just a Showdown text file)

Thanks a lot, looking forward to learning!

 

[toshimelonhead]

If anyone is willing to share a basic OU team (even just a Showdown text file)

Welcome to Smogon! Your best bet is to look at the Sample Teams page and see if any of those fit your needs.

 

[kerosne]

Welcome to Smogon! Your best bet is to look at the Sample Teams page and see if any of those fit your needs.

thank u so much

 

[Baharoth]

Good Morning, Smogon!
I have been meaning to talk about this pokemon for quite a while but I always procastinated and forgot about it.




Weezing-Galar @ Leftovers
Ability:  Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Strange Steam / Sludge Bomb
- Defog
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic / Toxic Spikes

By opting for Levitate over Neutralizing Gas on Weezing you add this to its defensive portfolio:


Tera Blast Fairy, Tera Ground, Bulky Dragon Tail, and Choice Band are Walled.
You can switch on +1 Tera Normal Extreme Speed but +2 and higher require you to consume Tera Steel.
Tera Blast Flying requires you to consume Tera Steel and Tera Fire Fire Punch will beat you eitherway..

Calcs

+5 252 Atk Tera Fairy Dragonite Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 148-174 (44.3 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 124-147 (37.1 - 44%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 155-183 (46.4 - 54.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 141-166 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 186-220 (55.6 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 141-166 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

You wall every Great Tusk set other than Bulk Up as +2 Tera Ice Ice Spinner which requires you to consume Tera steel

Calcs

+2 4 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Ice Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Weezing-Galar: 180-213 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You become significantly way more difficult to handle for it as it can no longer deal direct damage to you and Whirlwinding into hazards does minimal damage as you do not take spikes and are not weak to rocks


You wall everything it can throw at you but Substitute, Smack Down, or Tera Fire sets can be problematic to handle.

Calcs

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Weezing-Galar: 76-90 (22.7 - 26.9%) -- possible 5HKO

With Tera Steel, you get to wall every Dragon Dance set lacking Substitute barring Tera Fire Blast assuming you do not get frozen by Freeze Dry.
Choice Specs sets guarantee a 2hko with blizzard and get a chance significant to 2hko with draco meteor and require minimal chip to 2hko with ice beam.

Calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Tera Steel Weezing-Galar: 146-172 (43.7 - 51.4%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Tera Steel Weezing-Galar: 211-249 (63.1 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Tera Steel Weezing-Galar: 146-172 (43.7 - 51.4%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
168 Atk Never-Melt Ice Tera Ice Kyurem Icicle Spear (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Tera Steel Weezing-Galar: 80-96 (23.9 - 28.7%) -- approx. possible 5HKO
252 Atk Kyurem Icicle Spear (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Tera Steel Weezing-Galar: 52-64 (15.5 - 19.1%) -- approx. possible 8HKO
252 Atk Tera Fire Kyurem Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Tera Steel Weezing-Galar: 168-200 (50.2 - 59.8%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You wall every move barring Steel beam.

Calcs

252 Atk Iron Treads Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Weezing-Galar: 152-180 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You wall Power Herb sets if Power Herb is consumed but not regular Utility sets.
Every option for it is completely blanked by Tera Steel.

Calcs

252 SpA Glimmora Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Weezing-Galar: 174-205 (52 - 61.3%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You beat sets that use Giga Drain over Leaf Storm but lose to the later.

Calcs

+2 0 SpA Hydrapple Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Weezing-Galar: 125-147 (37.4 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 SpA Hydrapple Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Weezing-Galar: 216-255 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Weezing-Galar Strange Steam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Hydrapple: 204-242 (49.1 - 58.3%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO

You wall and cripple Rock Slide sets lacking substitute but Iron Head sets require you to consume Tera Steel.

Calcs

252+ Atk Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Weezing-Galar: 59-70 (17.6 - 20.9%) -- possible 7HKO
252+ Atk Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Weezing-Galar: 188-224 (56.2 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

However, this isn't without cost.
You have a worse mu into Regenerator users, you exhert no pressure on anymore, can't Toxic or drop Toxic Spikes on anymore, and very notably can't use Defog on anymore.

...And that's about it!
I find it very neat how a single ability change dramatically changes a Pokemon's defensive profile and wanted to share this to hopefully perhaps inspire more exploration of it.

I considered using this set a few times but the problem with using levitate is that at this point you are better off just using Corviknight instead. Can wall pretty much everything levitate Weezing can wall but has access to reliable recovery rather than Painsplit. It's superior in just about every way at this point. What makes Weezing worth using is the ability to defog against ghold, if it can no longer do that you are better off using other mons.

 

[toshimelonhead]

If I wanted Levitate on G-Weezing I would just use Tera Flying instead. As mentioned upstream Neutralizing Gas is too potent to pass up.

 

[Bold School]

Life has been busy. Sadly, I don't have any time to ladder before the end of the day. Either way, I wanted to get my survey thoughts out late that they are.

Enjoyment: 6

I find a way to have some fun with niche stuff, but I don't think I'll miss this gen when it is no longer newest. Too much matchup flipping and fishing.

Competitiveness: 4

I don't think it is that competitive. Too many things break too easily, even after banning a tiers worth of mons. There are fundemental mechanics issues that stop things from being right. I think targeting mechanics of some sort to take even the smallest edge off of power creep would help.

2

I know it is kinda nuts to predict the set, but that's kind of what we bargained for with Tera. We have already banned Volc so many DD mons. The only reason this one stayed as long as it has no BE on top of the DD. D-nite is one of the few mons I don't think would be too impacted by a TB ban, though. So those who want it banned probably see it as a separate issue.

I do think the E-speed from it is healthy for a tier where priority is super important. Multiscale can also be at least as important for stopping opposing sweeps as it is for setting up.

4

I was more neutral on this before changing my mind. Screens are really abusable in a gen where you can already brute force setup turns with Tera. Adding screen to this, which also helps you brute force set up turns, is really potent. Screen aren't unusuable without LC, but they become a bit crazy with them. At least limiting the turns makes playing around them more manageable.

I also really would like to see us solve a problem from a mechanics perspective than banning yet another mon that will likely have something else take its place as broken. That's another reason why I rate this so high a priority.

5

The combination of things is too much. You don't know if it is special wallbreaker, physical sweeper, mixed, PP stall, or what. I don't think Sub/Tect in of itself is broken. There is some counterplay against Sub and Freeze. The debates have been had before, but I will just remind people that we were one prank vote away from getting it banned.

Building balance this gen is kinda of tragic. On one side, you need to break stall. On the other, you get pounded by Wellspring and outright farmed by Kyurem. I don't think the player base will do it, but I would love to see this gone. It would free up a lot.

3

In spite of what I just said about this thing in the last section, I don't think it is impossible to manage by itself. There was a time in the gen where I wanted it ban. Now I am more neutral. I see possitives to it being banned, but I also kind of like how bot Alo Flip Turn is stopped cold. It is also hazard weak. This one is borderline to me. It's dumb, but I could take it or leave it.

Tera Blast: 5

It would be higher if I could. Who would have guessed giving STAB coverage moves to mons that were supposed to have it would break setup sweeper after setup sweeper? It's just too difficult too account for everything in the builder when any setup sweeper can blast you with any coverage. This is made worse when players realize some of the most potent two move coverage combinations, such as Dark/Fairy or Flying/Ground.

I will say there is one slight benefit to this move. It helps Normal special attackers, of which OU doesn't even really have any. I have had limited success with Indeedee, Porygon-Z, and H-Zoro, but there are all niche mons. I have heard Farigiraf can be good. Either way, the benefit clearly doesn't outweigh the problems created by the move.

3

This mon was always kind of silly. But the real silly stuff comes from Tera related nonsense. Without that, you can more easily deal with Gambit knowing what it can do. With that, Gambit can flip its bad matchups too easily. I do think there is a case to be made that this mon is too much for a Tera meta, but most of the worst nonsense comes from TB anyways. The rest of it is more or less solved even with Tera. You can force a Tera out if you aren't already too far behind.

 

[in minecraft]

I considered using this set a few times but the problem with using levitate is that at this point you are better off just using Corviknight instead. Can wall pretty much everything levitate Weezing can wall but has access to reliable recovery rather than Painsplit. It's superior in just about every way at this point. What makes Weezing worth using is the ability to defog against ghold, if it can no longer do that you are better off using other mons.

I used levitate gweez for a while and to be honest its really underrated but only fits on certain teams. Its incredible typing means that it walls nearly everything it wants without being at full, and it effectively has infinite recovery against fat guy like ting-lu and mola. It can sit on ting-lu and defog forever without worrying about roost PP. Unlike corv it can also spread status (i like toxic>wisp to beat ceruledge, roost dnite, and stop special breakers from coming in for free) and it has flamethrower and overheat to deter gholdengo from coming in making the defog still rather easy in practice.
The main problem IMO is being too passive, the opponent can always go glowking or mola for free momentum.

 

[brodiewhat]

Just wanted to discuss. Not a particularly good player. I use troll teams most of the time but I have tons of meta knowledge from trial and error and trial and error.

I think I gave this a 3. It's kinda hard to predict but none of the sets (to me) are specifically overpowered. Probably the most (?) versatile mon in the meta right now I want to say but most typical physical walls work. I think this is deserving of a suspect fs tho just because of how much controversy is rooted in this guy right now.

I think I gave this a 1 or 2. Ok so screens have admittedly been very annoying in the meta and it is extremely skill-less to abuse. That being said, I think this is just a meta trend that will fade away once we figure out consistent counterplay as a community.

This is a 1. Kyurem is not problematic to the tier, sorry. It is very predictable despite its 6(?) problem sets but I'll admit assault vest is kind of a dark horse. It is kind of hard to wall I won't lie but what isn't this gen? Tera blast definitely helps.

I might be alone on this and I will die on this hill: perennial 1. It's fast and can hit hard, but this thing usually has 4 MSS for sweeping sets. It's also not as hard as people make it seem to counter it (no you are not forced to hydrapple to counter ogerpon-w). I would argue that knock/spikes sets are actually better in the current meta and they did not seem as problematic to me.

tera blast: I think I marked this as a 2 but suspect it rfn so we can get the debate over with. At this point it has enabled (insert X) sweepers and I'd like to see what a metagame without it looks like to see if its impact is really that massive. My reason for it being a 2 now is, how many pokes in the format are still benefiting from it as heavily as before?

1/2. This is a balanced Pokemon but I can see where people are coming from since it has arguably one of the largest upsides in the meta. Encore and the common offensive types (fighting, fire, ground) are not hard to fit on a team and there are plenty more answers to gambit especially before tera.

 

[Achohermano]

I might be alone on this and I will die on this hill: perennial 1. It's fast and can hit hard, but this thing usually has 4 MSS for sweeping sets. It's also not as hard as people make it seem to counter it (no you are not forced to hydrapple to counter ogerpon-w). I would argue that knock/spikes sets are actually better in the current meta and they did not seem as problematic to me.

If that's the case, I think you should list the counters (Pokémon that can switch to any set comfortably and force Waterpon out without problem, that's what a counter is) and elaborate on why those Pokémon are, in fact, counters.

Because I can think of a few defensive checks;

Pecharunt: (gets worned down by knock + hazards from a easy team mate like Ting Lu, Gliscor or Landorus quite quickly in a game and forces tera from oger's side on SD sets to kill it).

Hydrapple: as you mentioned ( Knock + U- turn / SD Play Rough either destroys you or you have to tera)

Corv / Dondozo / Garganacl post Tera: As I mentioned, you have to tera into some types than make you weaker to other common Pokémon, and even then if Woger has tera or Encore she can unironically wins some of these matchups.

Toxapex: Closest one to a counter alongside Amoonguss, it can Haze, Baneful Bunker, Toxic or Recover stall. Really hard to fit outside of stall tho, really predictable and can also be worned down with knock + hazards but I think this is the closest one yet.

Amoonguss: Really good check, threats a Foul Play / Toxic and can Stun Spore switch ins for utility. Literally 0 utility asides from that tho, really bad typing outside of this matchup and, again, Waterpon can cheap it. This time even easier, since it can U turn without any fear. You can only fit it on Stall.

But counters? Not really.

 

[Eviolite Bisharp]

If that's the case, I think you should list the counters (Pokémon that can switch to any set comfortably and force Waterpon out without problem, that's what a counter is) and elaborate on why those Pokémon are, in fact, counters.

Because I can think of a few defensive checks;

Pecharunt: (gets worned down by knock + hazards from a easy team mate like Ting Lu, Gliscor o Landorus quite quickly in a game and forces tera from oger's side on SD sets to kill it).

Hydrapple: as you mentioned ( Knock + U- turn / SD Play Rough either destroys you or you have to tera)

Corv / Dondozo / Garganacl post Tera: As I mentioned, you have to tera into some times than make you weaker to other common Pokémon, and even then if Woger has tera or Encore she can unironically wins some of these matchups.

Toxapex: Closest one to a counter alongside Amoonguss, it can Haze, Baneful Bunker, Toxic or Recover stall. Really hard to fit outside of stall tho, really predictable and can also be worned down with knock + hazards but I think this is the closest one yet.

Amoonguss: Really good check, threats a Foul Play / Toxic and can Stun Spore switch ins for utility. Literally 0 utility asides from that tho, really bad typing outside of this matchup and, again, Waterpon can cheap it. This time even easier, since it can U turn without any fear. You can only fit it on Stall.

But counters? Not really.

Foul Play Sinistcha also works as a really good check to non Knock-Off Ogerpon. While it's true that Knock + U-Turn can worn down it's checks, these moves aren't usually used on SD sets that are the main threats to stall, being the most common SD Cudgel, Grass move and Play Rough for dragons. Without it, Ogerpon doesn't have the inmediate wallbreaking power to beat it's checks, and stall teams already have really good anti-hazard techs to avoid being overwhelmed by hazards like Iron Treads or Galarian Weezing

 

[JackRG]

Foul Play Sinistcha also works as a really good check to non Knock-Off Ogerpon. While it's true that Knock + U-Turn can worn down it's checks, these moves aren't usually used on SD sets that are the main threats to stall, being the most common SD Cudgel, Grass move and Play Rough for dragons. Without it, Ogerpon doesn't have the inmediate wallbreaking power to beat it's checks, and stall teams already have really good anti-hazard techs to avoid being overwhelmed by hazards like Iron Treads or Galarian Weezing

I'd rather just run colbur on a more standard CM set tbh. Colbur sinistcha is definitely a underrated set tho

 

[eliana[]samia]

Hi
I want to make a post here again to share my experience/teams in OST.

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I joined OST as my first tournament, and it was really fun to build teams for a specific purpose and play against other players who are actually trying to win. These are the teams I made:

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Round 1
I was paired against heileone who I heard is a very good player. I knew I would not be able to beat him by bringing a traditional team, as he would likely outplay me. So I decided to build some more unique sets that he might not be prepared for.

For the first game, I used a team with similar pokemon to the team I was building but with more proven sets (paste). This team worked surprisingly well but it was very standard, so there is not a whole lot to explain. He used his tera very early and I actually managed to win the game.

For the second game it was time to bring the team I had made.
Paste: -----
with Expert Belt is a mixed attacker who is very good at breaking slow and bulky teams early. Earthquake and Stone Edge obviously hit hard, and with 44 special attack EVs, will fall to Grass Knot. Tera Blast ice can get around , enemy and some other pokemon. While it is a great tera that offers a lot offensively, you should only use it if your other pokemon cannot break a certain structure since other team members would rather have the tera otherwise.
with Life Orb and Trick Room might seem like a weird set on a team like this at first, but the team is not actually that fast compared to other offense teams. This makes it hard to regain the upper hand after the opponent knocks out one of your pokemon. The solution is Trick Room Hatterene. She can get trick room up quite easily, and with a very high special attack stat + Life Orb she can force KO's. Tera Stellar is there to get extra damage and allow you to OHKO things like , and . Even if Hatterene dies, most of the teams attackers prioritize bulk rather than speed, so they might still move first in Trick Room, flipping some matchups on their head.
is an obvious pick for where this team is heading. It is an amazing offense pokemon already and it pairs well with Trick Room and Grassy Terrain. I went with Tera Ghost and Air Balloon to beat bulky + structures since they are hard to break. The set is pretty flexible though.
it can set spikes and hit hard. It is a great partner for Kingambit being able to overwhelm each others checks. I like to Swords Dance early and just click Ceaseless Edge until it dies. Black Glasses Sucker Punch hits harder than people expect too.
with Grassy Seed has fantastic staying power and is the best partner for Rillaboom on offense teams. It is very good after the opponents team has been weakened a bit. With high bulk and Focus Blast you beat things like and . Gholdengo does it's thing of keeping Samurott's hazards up. Great set that makes the team much better against BO without tera, though it can still make good use of that.
I mentioned it a few times prior but this team benefits a lot from Grassy Terrain. I opted for a bulkier Rillaboom with Bulk Up and Miracle Seed. It is not as explosive, but many of the team already is. This set is much less prone to getting revenge killed and still hits hard. High Horsepower is an option but I prefer Knock Off since most of the things you want to click High Horsepower on the team has switch ins for.

Many of the choices made in this team double up on certain structures, with the idea being that you utilize one 'tech' to open up the rest of the team. I managed to win the game and the set utilizing this idea. Overall very happy with this team.

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Round 2
I was paired against halzz and I was building a hyper offense team with Stored Power Iron Crown. Unfortunately he missed our time and told me I could call act, so I didn't get to play.

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Round 3
I was paired against txlix and for this round I wanted to make a team using Choice Scarf Landorus Therian. Unfortunately after days of teambuilding I couldn't get to a team I felt happy and comfortable with. I was pretty dissapointed but luckily Hon07rial gave me the idea to make a team around Choice Scarf Pecharunt instead.

I spent the whole day building the team since the game was the next day, and I am happy with the result.
Paste: -----
is not the strongest Choice Scarf holder, but with Malignant Chain you still threathen many switch ins with a poison + confusion. With Foul Play you outspeed and KO setup sweepers like and terastalized , as well as . Choice Scarf Parting Shot is also a very safe click that allows you to pivot around things much easier as well as stop Dragon Dance and Body Press . I think this set has a ton of potential.
has Heavy Duty Boots over the trending Choice Band. The speed boost + encore is very good to stop setup sweepers that Pecharunt can't handle, and in return Pecharunt hits the things Ogerpon does not like and creates Swords Dance opportunities with Parting Shot. I think Choice Band Ogerpon would still be a great parnter for Choice Scarf Pecharunt, but not on this team.
with Wish is the next team member and it makes a lot of sense here. Since Pecharunt has no defensive investment, a secondary physical wall is welcome. Wish can heal up Pecharunt and Ting-Lu since they lack recover. Also, it is pretty easy to predict switching in so you can Wish on that turn and then switch into Pecharunt and heal back to full. The other team members also benefit a lot from the slow pivot and Rocky Helmet helps with chipping opposing Rapid Spin or U-Turn users.
is the special wall of the team. The team loves hazards and Ting-Lu can set up spikes. It crucially switches into and who are major issues for the team otherwise. There is not much else to say about Ting-Lu, we all know he is good.
with Temper Flare benefits the team in many ways. Of course it has Rapid Spin, but I also wanted it to set up Stealth Rock since Ting-Lu can't afford to have both hazards on this team. Temper Flare is the way to make it work. I can hit without needing to predict as well as hitting very hard for Ogerpon. This move is very unique and I think it is much better than Ice Spinner if you want to have Stealth Rock + Rapid Spin on Great Tusk.
with Choice Specs is the teams main breaker. It also helps with who is a pretty bad matchup for the team otherwise. Volt Switch is amazing too, allowing you to reposition and chunking switch ins hard. It makes this team feel very complete.

The team worked well and I won game one with it, but unfortunately I was not prepared well for this round.
I brought a sun team in game two that someone was kind enough to send me for round two, but I wasn't familiar with how it worked and I lost pretty badly.
For game three I decided to change some sets of my game one team that I talked about last second, but this was a pretty bad choice as my team was not made around those sets. I might have had a better shot if I just brought the same team twice.
My poor preparation aside, my opponent played well and I hope he does well in the rest of the tournament.

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From this I have learned that it is important to prepare well, and to be familiar with what you are playing. I had a lot of fun partaking in the tournament, and I hope to join one again in the future. The atmosphere around the tournament was quite postitive. I think everyone should give it a shot even if you are not the most qualified player, we all start somewhere and the point of the game is to have fun. :)

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I hope this post can be helpful to someone. <3

 

[Magcargo]

Some thoughts on a few mons:
I've gotta apologize to this mon. I thought for the longest time it was mid, but on the right structure that's able to support it, its truly exceptional. Specifically most CM variants, because that set is crazy. A set I've been trying out is Wish / Protect / Moonblast / CM. I thought a set be flawed, but it has been managing just fine. Wish doesn't have many of the same issues that Moonlight does, so you can easily slap this set on a Sand / Slowking-G build with little issue. Protect in general is such a nice move on Clefable to rack up additional leftovers recovery, scout what choice locked mons like Raging Bolt / Ghold are planning, and stall out sun / screens turns depending on MU. I've even been able to beat a few mons like Pecharunt 1v1 because I was able to stall out their Malignant Chain PP with protect. Really nice set.

Been using this mon more and I've been kinda impressed by it. On paper, it loses to 90% of the metagame. This has been true in multiple past generations like 8 or 6 when threats like Urshifu, Lando-T, or Keldeo were running the metagame. It feels a fair bit worse now however with the threats TTar is facing now like Zamazenta, Ogerpon-W, etc. being difficult to dance around and other Pokemon its tasked with handling have pivoting moves to bring these threats in (which are also hitting TTar for super effective damage). That said, its got its own advantages. Sand chip is actually so amazing, esp combined with other sources of passive damage to wear down misc threats like Ogerpon-W, Zamazenta, Primarina, etc. in the long game. This pairs really well with Knock Off, which is similarly great at wearing down most of its switch-ins when supported with hazards. Sand itself is really nice against a lot of styles like Rain, Sun, etc. And of course, its movepool is very well rounded and customizable, with multiple tools like T-Wave, Roar, Rocks, and misc coverage like Low Kick for Gambit, Heavy Slam for Tera Fairy mons, Ice Punch for Gliscor, etc. And of course, while it is weak to everything, it can still take a hit in a pinch to deliver the killing blow to many mons. I think its speed tier - being above Kingambit - is also a very nice quality to have. I think its main flaw is really that horrible MU against Tusk since that mon feels very difficult to account for with the standard Ttar team.