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Suspect SV BH Suspect #7: Stone Axe

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:SV/Kleavor: STONE AXE SUSPECT :SV/Kleavor:

Stone Axe has been one of the most influential moves in BH since the Ceaseless Edge ban. Being able to guarantee setup Stealth Rock while being splashable onto RegenVest Pokemon has cemented it as an autoinclude on any team and shapes the entry hazard meta around it. Due to dealing damage and having 24 PP, Stone Axe wins the exchange against guaranteed hazard removal tools like Defog and Tidy Up, while its common presence on Regenerator Pokemon means its commonly run alongside moves like Knock Off and Nuzzle, which deter -ate Rapid Spin users. This leaves Mortal Spin and Rapid Spin as the reliable removal options, both of which are blockable and thus mandating at least 2 on bulkier teams, with one also usually being on a RegenVest Pokemon. As a result of the ease of setting and maintaining Rocks, RegenVest Pokemon are able to make progress reliably while being hard to punish, and thus Balance vs Balance gameplay often involve long pivoting sequences between RegenVests and repeated exchanges of Stone Axe and Spin, assuming one side doesn't straight up have a significant advantage by having the right spinblocker. The near-permanent presence of Stealth Rocks also impacts the viability and set diversity of any Rocks-weak Pokemon, especially offensive ones like Kyurems.

Stone Axe does have its merits in the meta. While it is very easy to use it to set up Rocks and influences the Spins + Spinblock matchups, it also avoids a Magic Bounce vs Hazard Setter matchup roulette. Despite benefitting from a guaranteed progress move, RegenVest Pokemon also cannot run Heavy-Duty Boots and lose on a lot of healing if hazards are up, limiting the most common users to Rocks/Hazard resilient Pokemon like Ting-Lu and Celesteela. The ease of setting rocks also helps limit offensive powerhouses like Blaziken and Alakazam from repeatedly coming in to eventually break past teams, and the limiting of Rocks-weak Pokemon can be considered a positive in limiting threat oversaturation.

These factors combined makes Stone Axe a controversial element in the current BH meta. Is it too polarizing and encourages unhealthy gameplay loops and matchup elements, or is it a fair presence with positive benefits and reasonable counterplay? As such, Stone Axe is being suspected.

Requirements:

Create a new account on PS. You do not have to follow any specific naming convention, but your suspect account must have never played a game in Gen 9 Balanced Hackmons before this suspect test went up or you will not receive valid requirements (resetting W/L does not count for this - the account you use must never have played BH before the test, full stop.)
At any point on your new account, use the command /linksmogon on Pokemon Showdown! You will receive instructions on what to do once you run this command.
Double check that you're listed as a voter here! If you aren't listed as a voter despite having valid reqs, please contact April, Giagantic, dhelmise or a member of staff.

The requirement to vote in this suspect test is a COIL value of 2900 (b-value 5). The deadline for getting requirements will be <t:1772254800:f>.

Voting:
Once the suspect period is over, everyone who has obtained reqs will be tagged. The post will then outline a process of blind voting, which will be clarified once the time arrives. For now, follow the above "Requirements" subheading to ensure that you have achieved requirements and linked your account.

A supermajority (>=60%) of ban votes is required to ban Stone Axe from Balanced Hackmons.

TL;DR:
- The COIL value is 2900
- You must ladder on a newly-created alt of any name
- You must link your suspect alt with your smogon account using /linksmogon
- The suspect test will run conclude on <t:1772254800:f>
 
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If you need teams I direct you to this extremely useful beginner-friendly teambuilding guide:

I have curated a list of 10 sample teams that you can try yourself, all 100% untested, completely original and ready to win ladder games.
:arceus-steel::eternatus::flutter mane::chansey::zacian::celesteela:
:arceus-ghost::eternatus::flutter mane::chansey::ting-lu::registeel:
:arceus-electric::eternatus::flutter mane::chansey::ting-lu::celesteela:
:arceus-steel::eternatus::flutter mane::chansey::zamazenta::celesteela:
:arceus-water::eternatus::flutter mane::chansey::ting-lu::registeel:
:arceus-steel::eternatus::flutter mane::chansey::zacian::celesteela:
:arceus-steel::eternatus::flutter mane::chansey::zacian::celesteela:
:arceus-steel::eternatus::flutter mane::chansey::zamazenta::celesteela:
:arceus-ground::eternatus::flutter mane::chansey::zamazenta::celesteela:
:arceus-electric::eternatus::flutter mane::chansey::ting-lu::celesteela:

Bonus 2 teams for feet enjoyers below:
:gardevoir-mega::koraidon::celesteela::chansey::arceus-ghost::dialga-origin:
:gardevoir-mega::koraidon::registeel::chansey::arceus-water::miraidon:


MEGA METAGROSS IS REAL IN 2026
:METAGROSS-MEGA::PALKIA-ORIGIN::REGISTEEL::ZACIAN::CHANSEY::ARCEUS-DARK:
 
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got reqs. here are teams

1. 1 vcreate sun
heatran.png
fluttermane.png
koraidon.png
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Heatran @ Earth Plate
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Growth
- Steel Beam
- Judgment
- Solar Blade

Flutter Mane @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Volt Switch
- Mortal Spin
- Pain Split

Koraidon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Combat Torque
- Glaive Rush
- Electro Drift
- Gigaton Hammer

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Knock Off
- Judgment
- Spikes
- Shore Up

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Swords Dance
- Bolt Strike
- Poison Powder

Charizard-Mega-X @ Eject Button
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Destiny Bond
- V-create
- Copycat
- Glare
2. Summoning Snow
dialga.png
shaymin-sky.png
arceus.png
fluttermane.png
shuckle.png
kyogre-primal.png

Dialga @ Adamant Crystal
Ability: Slush Rush
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Dragon Energy
- Gigaton Hammer
- Headlong Rush
- Final Gambit

Shaymin-Sky @ Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seed Flare
- Hurricane
- Magma Storm
- Zap Cannon

Arceus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Axe Kick
- Chilly Reception
- Diamond Storm
- Psycho Boost

Flutter Mane @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Endeavor
- Boomburst
- Will-O-Wisp
- Head Smash

Shuckle @ Eject Button
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
- Recover
- Salt Cure
- Encore
- Glare

Kyogre-Primal @ Leftovers
Ability: Slush Rush
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Take Heart
- Revelation Dance
- Leech Seed
- Earth Power
3. legend of webs balance
xerneas-neutral.png
gholdengo.png
koraidon.png
chansey.png
arceus-water.png
miraidon.png

Xerneas-Neutral @ Leftovers
Ability: Fairy Aura
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Magical Torque
- V-create
- Baneful Bunker
- Sticky Web

Gholdengo @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Well-Baked Body
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nuzzle
- Strength Sap
- Infernal Parade
- Knock Off

Koraidon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Combat Torque
- Mortal Spin
- Knock Off
- Strength Sap

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block
- Heal Bell
- Roost
- Topsy-Turvy

Arceus-Water @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Take Heart
- Revelation Dance
- Magma Storm
- Strength Sap

Miraidon @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Knock Off
- Draco Meteor
- Electro Drift
- Mortal Spin
4. diglett bullshit
diglett-alola.png
arceus-ghost.png
blaziken-mega.png
palkia-origin.png
chansey.png
meloetta.png

Psychic Driving (Diglett-Alola) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Spe
Serious Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Pain Split
- Leech Seed
- Ice Shard
- Toxic Spikes

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Simple
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Judgment
- Secret Sword
- Malignant Chain

Blaziken-Mega @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Desolate Land
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Trick
- Headlong Rush
- U-turn

Palkia-Origin @ Lustrous Globe
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Draco Meteor
- Sticky Web
- Lunar Dance

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Roost
- Topsy-Turvy
- Block

Meloetta @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Ice Scales
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Cage
- Mortal Spin
- Take Heart
- Strength Sap
5. MY GRANDPA'S DECK HAS NO PATHETIC CARDS (GEN9 VERSION)
calyrex-ice.png
garchomp-mega.png
arceus-fairy.png
kyogre-primal.png
zamazenta.png
magearna-original.png

GARDEN DISTRICT (Calyrex-Ice) @ Quick Claw
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Glacial Lance
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Mortal Spin

USELESS DROPOUT (Garchomp-Mega) @ Quick Claw
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Darts
- Electro Drift

FANTASY CHRONICLE (Arceus-Fairy) @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Strength Sap
- Magical Torque
- Stone Axe
- High Jump Kick

I NEED MORE CRACK! (Kyogre-Primal) @ Quick Claw
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Surging Strikes
- Ice Beam
- Headlong Rush
- Leech Seed

TABULA RASA (Zamazenta) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wicked Blow
- High Jump Kick
- Strength Sap
- Mortal Spin

SUBTERFUGE (Magearna-Original) (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Scales
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Burning Bulwark
- Salt Cure
- Teleport

ill try to come up with a stone axe opinion in the next 2 weeks or whatever idk i need to help my team reach playoffs in solopl
 
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First ever perfect run. Shoutouts Treeko928 for the excellent team, one of the most consistent teams I've used this gen for ladder (other than one speed tie into VD LO Gren).

I don't think Stone Axe is as egregious as most elements on our banlist, and everything on there that is tamer should IMO be given a revisit which makes Stone Axe the tamest if it joins the list. That being said, I'm probably still going to vote ban, but can be convinced the other way if good counterarguments are presented.

The OP highlights most of the reasoning why I would want to see it gone. I think the hazard gameplay revolving around Stone Axe is very imbalanced and monotonous for one side minimum: you put Stone Axe on whichever Pokemon can fit it best, you get that mon in safely, click Stone Axe and if it hits boom you get your rocks. Meanwhile your opponent has to then position their spinner (because Stone Axe invalidates non-spin removal more on that later) and not get spinblocked (which is in itself a matchup fish more on that later and can lead to 50/50s like Registeel against Zama do you click Mortal or STAB). Without Stone Axe we go back to a previous gen interaction of playing for hazard setting with offensive sets to bypass Magic Bounce except it would be unlike any other BH gen since we don't have Poison Heal which was the most common way to get them up, and personally I think that dynamic would be interesting. You can call it burn out too which is fully subjective and I won't deny it, with still a couple of months presumably of this gen I think having a new hazard dynamic would help with the staleness of the tier. Stone Axe making rocks up more often than not also heavily skews item meta in favour of items that can offset this, namely Boots and Lefties, personally I think having Cloak Helmet and friends be more viable creates for a more interesting meta while also counteracting some dishonest strategies.

Re: non-spin removal, the reason why I think (and most people would probably agree) they are unviable is because Stone Axe has 24 PP (effective >20) and deals some damage. The former means Tidy Up just gets outpped, and for both Tidy Up and Defog the setter is getting in minor chip unless you are fsr Regen with those moves, so on paper you will need to recover eventually and not remove on demand, especially for Defog which does nothing. Thus these moves just do not function as mono removal as you would like a guaranteed removal to do (ignore GaG) on bulkier teams and offensive teams don't really want to clear both sides, so if you need dual removal anyways you might as well run dual spin because they are just better.

Re: spinblock matchup, basically there's no really consistent spinner that doesn't get blocked by something viable. The most consistent is Rapid Ghostceus, since it threatens almost all Ghosts, but stuff like Ice Scales and offensive Flutters can dance around it. MG Spin Yveltal theoretically beats every Ghost but doesn't really do much and Flutter can still dance around it by forcing out with STAB. And then Mortal side you have the Ho-Oh getting blocked by Fire immunes, the Grounds by Ground immunes, the Fightings are generally more consistent especially with Arrows but you are still relying on RNG to deal with stuff like CeleMage and Ghold can just deny you in the short term if they commit. So basically Spins can feel frustrating when you look over your team and start seeing all the combos that deny you from removal.

Re: hazards being too hard to get up hypothetical post Axe ban, if Mortal Spin ends up being oppressive somehow we can always resuspect that. But also Bounce isn't that easy to fit and if people actually use non passive setters not like the ones we saw in the No Axe tour then bouncers cannot bounce easily.

Re: offensive breakers being held back, I think this is fair if you start theorizing the stuff like Kyurems that hate perma rocks but will they really be oppressive don't think so and otoh it adds some offensive diversity. Meanwhile the best breakers we have are Blaze which is pretty stupid on its own, Chomp who resists rocks and is the guy that needs to come in a lot more than Blaze usually, so like the main guy you limit is... Zam? Either way we can always tier out stuff if offensive guys start spiraling out of control, but they also miss rocks being able to chip stuff into range.
 
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