Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [ survey results -- see post 21,221 ]

[UltraSword]

First post here in a while but in y'alls opinion, what is the worst mon currently ranked OU?
I think it's Iron Moth personally, almost every team has at least two mons that beat it, and the booster set is kinda useless after it switches
It kind of feels like a potential man kind of mon but I haven't seen anyone really do anything like that with it besides something like specs under sun

Iron Crown and I don't think it is really close. Imo it doesn't have very much to offer aside from being a good Kyurem check and even then, it doesn't really switch in well against earth power (it is cleanly 2hkoed by the sub+protect set without AV and still gets 3hkoed with it) and also has to worry about tera. I think it is too weak to dark types (especially Kingambit) to be truly great in OU especially when its best coverage against them is focus blast. That being said I don't think it is terrible since it has a good speed tier and tachyon cutter is a great STAB. It can definitely do some stuff in the right match up but I think overall it is not that good.

As for Iron Moth I feel like one of the reasons it is "bad" is because we aren't really seeing enough variation. I think it does have some genuinely untapped potential in certain areas (for example I don't know why no one uses booster SpA with agility and tb ground because I can see that cooking).

 

[ScribeofRevocis]

Iron Crown and I don't think it is really close. It isn't terrible but imo it doesn't have very much to offer aside from being a good Kyurem counter and even then, it doesn't really switch in well against earth power (it is cleanly 2hkoed by the sub+protect set without AV and still gets 3hkoed with it) and also has to worry about tera. I think it is too weak to dark types (especially Kingambit) to be truly great in OU especially when its best coverage against them is focus blast. That being said I don't think it is terrible since it has a good speed tier and tachyon cutter is a great STAB. It can definitely do some stuff in the right match up but I think overall it is not that good.

Oh fs crown is a good take on this. It kinda just does nothing at all to tinglu and most grounds. (Edit: just tinglu idk why I said most grounds) I think it's definitely a good mon tho, and I've had some success using it. I also think the future sight sets are kind of mid as its so much worse than glowking st the role. I would still be in ost if it didn't miss five whole ahh focus blasts, though, so high key send this guy to zu

As for Iron Moth I feel like one of the reasons it is "bad" is because we aren't really seeing enough variation. I think it does have some genuinely untapped potential in certain areas (for example I don't know why no one uses booster SpA with agility and tb ground because I can see that cooking).

I agree, but it's only in theory, because I haven't really seen it do much besides booster so far. The booster speed set is kinda mid anyway imo, it basically forces it to have only ~125 base spa and it's super reliant on stack raises from firey dance.

 

[UltraSword]

Oh yeah since I am here might as well drop my 2 cents regarding the surveys and related stuff. The thing that I immediately took away from the results of this survey is that there probably won't be any more suspects for the remainder of the gen. I was not surprised by the lack of support for anything in particular and it is clear that we are probably too divided for anything else to happen. I am not saying this because I think the tier is doomed or the tier can't ever change, I am just saying what I believe to be true. While it is a little disappointing to see the gen end on the metaphorical whimper, I am personally fine with the way the gen is currently, problems and all. I don't think there is anything banworthy and now that Solgaleo has proven to be unhealthy since it makes Wogerpon too good, I also don't think there are any pokemon that should be brought down from ubers (except Terapagos but since it is technically not possible it doesn't matter). Unless we have another major shift in the meta on the level of the rise of screens I don't think anything will change. But hey I would be glad to be proven wrong and if I am then ignore what I said here since my opinion will have obviously changed.

I agree, but it's only in theory, because I haven't really seen it do much besides booster so far. The booster speed set is kinda mid anyway imo, it basically forces it to have only ~125 base spa and it's super reliant on stack raises from firey dance.

Hey so PSA. Please don't use booster speed I am begging you. It is so ass and it is the biggest noob trap in the entire gen. Use actually good sets that leverage Iron Moth's entire special attack.

 

[ScribeofRevocis]

Hey so PSA. Please don't use booster speed I am begging you. It is so ass and it is the biggest noob trap in the entire gen. Use actually good sets that leverage Iron Moth's entire special attack.

Yea ik
I actually have never used moth before outside of sun and this one ho I randomly made a looong time. I just feel like I see it in team preview and almost never get worried

I'm probably gonna try and build smth around specs moth

 

[pixelpenguin]

First post here in a while but in y'alls opinion, what is the worst mon currently ranked OU?

Iron Crown or Iron Moth is probably the right answer, but it feels like Dondozo ngl. that guy's the weakest link in stall teams, it's even more passive than Blissey. it's a knock off magnet that loses immediately after getting knocked if you can keep hazards up. and Dondozo fits on no teams except stall which is ass. at least Iron Crown is a decent AV pivot and Iron Moth can occasionally sweep with the right Tera.

 

[Heatranator]

First post here in a while but in y'alls opinion, what is the worst mon currently ranked OU?
I think it's Iron Moth personally, almost every team has at least two mons that beat it, and the booster set is kinda useless after it switches
It kind of feels like a potential man kind of mon but I haven't seen anyone really do anything like that with it besides something like specs under sun

I don't think either Moth or Crown are actually the worst tbh. As UltraSword stated, theres a lot of variation for Moth with stuff like tspikes, wwind, toxic, m-beam etc. As for Iron Crown, I've actually been liking it a lot recently. AV and Specs aren't great, but I think that CM booster energy is currently really good, as its ability to beat mons such as Kyurem, Hatt, Glimm etc while posing an immense sweeping threat is great. Typically a lot of non Ting teams don't have great switch ins aside from Darks, which one Focus Blast to the cranium completely neutralises. Its honestly heavily underappreciated rn and I think it needs more respect put to its name.
If I had to give an answer, I'd say its Moltres ngl. Moltres is just stuck in a hard place rn. It wants to be spdef to actually check Kyurem (one of its main mons it can answer), but it also wants to be phys defense to check the variety of physical attackers like Gambit, Zama and Dnite. It also really hates recent meta trends with stuff such as Stedge Tusk, Ceru's whole shtick, heck even zarude who has popped up more can knock its boots and then not gaf about burn due to either leaf guard under sun or jungle healing. Its just in a pretty terrible spot rn.

 

[UltraSword]

Iron Crown or Iron Moth is probably the right answer, but it feels like Dondozo ngl. that guy's the weakest link in stall teams, it's even more passive than Blissey. it's a knock off magnet that loses immediately after getting knocked if you can keep hazards up. and Dondozo fits on no teams except stall which is ass. at least Iron Crown is a decent AV pivot and Iron Moth can occasionally sweep with the right Tera.

Bruh I can't believe I forgot about this thing. All Dondozo does is sit there and pray it doesn't instantly lose to Wogerpon. There is basically no variation aside from switching out the main attacking move and all of them are worse than waterfall for various reasons. The only reason this thing isn't in UU is because the only stall sample team uses it. Hopefully it drops to UU before the end of the gen so it can actually be interesting. So yeah this is definitely the worst OU ranked pokemon lol.

If I had to give an answer, I'd say its Moltres ngl. Moltres is just stuck in a hard place rn. It wants to be spdef to actually check Kyurem (one of its main mons it can answer), but it also wants to be phys defense to check the variety of physical attackers like Gambit, Zama and Dnite. It also really hates recent meta trends with stuff such as Stedge Tusk, Ceru's whole shtick, heck even zarude who has popped up more can knock its boots and then not gaf about burn due to either leaf guard under sun or jungle healing. Its just in a pretty terrible spot rn.

I highly disagree with this. Moltres is one of the best answers to Zama and it is great in general against a lot of physical attackers and pivots since they don't appreciate the burn. I also feel like unlike Zapdos with thunder wave it is much easier to drop will o wisp and because of that it allows Moltres to have more flexibility in its moveset with moves like hurricane, roar, and even scorching sands. I do think Zapdos is a bit better since paralysis is more useful overall but I think Moltres is great and definitely not the worst pokemon ranked OU.

 

[pixelpenguin]

If I had to give an answer, I'd say its Moltres ngl. Moltres is just stuck in a hard place rn. It wants to be spdef to actually check Kyurem (one of its main mons it can answer), but it also wants to be phys defense to check the variety of physical attackers like Gambit, Zama and Dnite. It also really hates recent meta trends with stuff such as Stedge Tusk, Ceru's whole shtick, heck even zarude who has popped up more can knock its boots and then not gaf about burn due to either leaf guard under sun or jungle healing. Its just in a pretty terrible spot rn.

there's no way Moltres is worse than Crown or Moth. it beats ID Zama, Valiant, Tusk (stone edge isn't real imo), Dragonite, Kingambit, Lando, HexPult, Kyurem, sometimes Ghold, etc.

 

[ScribeofRevocis]

there's no way Moltres is worse than Crown or Moth. it beats ID Zama, Valiant, Tusk (stone edge isn't real imo), Dragonite, Kingambit, Lando, HexPult, Kyurem, sometimes Ghold, etc.

Ultra agree with this take, saying molt is the worst is a really crazy take
But head smash / stone edge tusk is pretty real imo, it's a good moltres lure and it's an option on the occasional scarf sets ig

 

[Heatranator]

there's no way Moltres is worse than Crown or Moth. it beats ID Zama, Valiant, Tusk (stone edge isn't real imo), Dragonite, Kingambit, Lando, HexPult, Kyurem, sometimes Ghold, etc.

Okay, going to adress this, but it really struggles with a good amount of these IMO. ID Zama it straight up loses to if its Tera Fire, an extremely common Tera type since it also can help beat HexPult and resist the multiple Fairy type attacks aimed at it. Dnite commonly runs either Tera Blast Flying (which straight up 2hkos so if Molt doesn't have Wisp it just loses on the spot, nevermind Lum variants) or Rock Slide/Stedge which also nukes Moltres. Kingambit also runs Tera Fire a decent amount of the time and it can STILL lose to burned Gambit if its not physically defensive (+2 burned with like, two overlord boosts 2HKO's). Val can commonly run Tbolt on its Calm Mind sets (the primary set Molt is answering, SD it just hates Knock Off) which either 2HKO's it or nearly OHKO's depending on the spread. Stedge is definetely a set, particularly on Booster Speed BU sets with Taunt, which are incredibly scary for faster paced teams but can also put in work against defensive teams. Molt just loses to this so the Tusk player has a lot easier time clicking Headlong. Lando can just Taunt Molt but people have even started experimenting with options such as Rock Tomb or Smack Down, which just completely ruin Molt. Hexpult is indeed its best MU, but if its spdef molt, then its struggling to switch in consistently against Darts, as they are doing 35-40% consistently, forcing Molt to Roost in order to stay healthy enough to answer it. Kyurem has been running AV a lot more which it just HATES. Not only does Flamethrower do less, but also Kyurem can commonly run Modest, which means that Moltres is also taking way more damage, where phys def is getting 2HKO'd by Ice Beam while Spdef is still taking 30% and doing a measly 20% back. Nevermind that if it has Draco, it can just nuke it from half health. And ghold IDT I have to explain, since you already said its only sometimes.

The primary issue with Molt currently is that its very easy to get around it without even trying, a lot of the techs to beat Moltres are also techs you would just naturally fit on teams because they are good techs. People didn't use Stedge Tusk just because it nails Molt, but it also hits Zapdos, Waterpon, Kyurem, Torn-T etc. Val is running Tbolt to help against AV Mola, Torn, Spdef Corv etc. I think you get the point. I'm not saying that Molt is some dogshit mon that should be C rank, rather that it heavily struggles in the current meta because a lot of the techs and general trends do not favour it. Compare that to Crown and Moth, both of which I think are much more favourable into current trends (Crown really likes Kyurem being popular and also enjoys Hatt/Val being good rn. While Moth appreciate Ghold, Pecha, Sun etc.) and I think Molt is kinda just worse then the other two.

 

[Wigglytuff]

Would you trust health advice coming from your drunk friend over 300 pounds who eats Cheetos religiously or would you trust a medical health professional with decades of experience?

what if medical health professional is also a drunk fat

 

[Magcargo]

I'm kinda mixed on calling Dozo the worst mon in the tier - it definitely can feel like a fish + exploitable, but there are also a lot of match-ups where a well-played Dozo can feel like ID Zama & there is little that can be done to stop it from winning. I've had games where Tera Dark Spdef Dozo was a menace, beating what-would-be checks like Ogerpon-W effortlessly & taking 15% from Zamazenta Body Press when its at +6. I also don't think Dozo balance is really as bad as people say - with there being multiple configurations of it with various partners like Ting-Lu, G-Weezing, Ogerpon, etc. Hell the famous blimax team even runs dozo lol. Same also applies to clod btw, which isn't OU, but I think its an underrated mon as well.

 

[Archer Kirby]

Calling Dozo the worse mon in the tier is such a bad take lol, It is the glue that hold stall teams together, acting as a superb check to so many physical attackers. It's not just a case of "only a stall sample team uses it", I don't think I've seen a stall team without it because it offers way too much in one slot.

Excluding Teras on both sides, we got Kingambit, DD Kyurem, Ceruledge, Cinderace, Physical Pult, Dragonite, SD Gliscor, BU Tusk, Zamazenta etc etc I could go on but you get the point. Sure some of these mons have potential ways to win, like Dnite running Encore or how Ace will always U-Turn (tbf Dozo shouldn't be your Ace button) but the point here is without this fish, stall gets run over so easily. I'd argue the fact that Dozo is as high as it is in usage despite being only on stall teams with stall being ROUGH to play this gen, really shows how vital it is to the playstyle.

Now if you want my opinion, I'd say its Ttar. Being honest, I don't even know how its OU, I think I've seen Ttar maybe once or twice. Maybe it helps out with dealing with Pech or something? So curious question, what does Ttar even do in this tier, is it not just a worse Ting Lu as a more bulky hazard setter or an outclassed physical attacker that can't even tera to avoid taking damage from its own ability.

 

[Eviolite Bisharp]

Calling Dozo the worse mon in the tier is such a bad take lol, It is the glue that hold stall teams together, acting as a superb check to so many physical attackers. It's not just a case of "only a stall sample team uses it", I don't think I've seen a stall team without it because it offers way too much in one slot.

Excluding Teras on both sides, we got Kingambit, DD Kyurem, Ceruledge, Cinderace, Physical Pult, Dragonite, SD Gliscor, BU Tusk, Zamazenta etc etc I could go on but you get the point. Sure some of these mons have potential ways to win, like Dnite running Encore or how Ace will always U-Turn (tbf Dozo shouldn't be your Ace button) but the point here is without this fish, stall gets run over so easily. I'd argue the fact that Dozo is as high as it is in usage despite being only on stall teams with stall being ROUGH to play this gen, really shows how vital it is to the playstyle.

To be fair i would put it among the most mediocre mons in the tier While it's true that Dozo is seen sometimes outside of stall, most teams that aren't stall do rather a physical wall with more utility like Alomomola with WishPass and pivoting, while Dondozo is too passive to work effectively. Curse sets are always walled by something, if you use Waterfall you give free switch into Wellspring, if you use BP then you do big fat nothing against any Ghost type, and even Crunch it's not that great since you give free turns to mons like special Iron Valiant or Roar Zamazenta toidisrupt your gameplan. You can still run two attacks but its still extremely passive

Now if you want my opinion, I'd say its Ttar. Being honest, I don't even know how its OU, I think I've seen Ttar maybe once or twice. Maybe it helps out with dealing with Pech or something? So curious question, what does Ttar even do in this tier, is it not just a worse Ting Lu as a more bulky hazard setter or an outclassed physical attacker that can't even tera to avoid taking damage from its own ability.

Tyranitar is not as bad as you seem to think it is. While defensive sets are basically budget Ting-Lu that has Knock Off and allows Excadrill with sand, i think the real potential it has is on it's CB set, which is one of the best wallbreakers of the tier while still having considerable defensive utility at checking Ghost types and Iron Moth alongside with disrupting weather based strategies

 

[Bold School]

First post here in a while but in y'alls opinion, what is the worst mon currently ranked OU?

I think all of them are at least pretty good, but it might be Enam. The speed tier just isn't impressive for a pure offensive mon. It is also really choiced reliant, making playing around it easier. The main thing that saves it is Specs Moonblast and EP coverage being hard to switch into. Some team structures just lose to that. Even then, it's pretty easy to RK. Scarf sets are a fraud. Stellar Scarf can catch you by surprise, maybe, but it still is highly situational and a Tera hog. Iron Valiant is just better most of the time.

I can't believe I am saying this, but Lando-T is probably the worst ground type left in OU. Tusk is a beast, Lu is the wall, and Gliscor is just the better Flying/Ground. Treads is a little closer, but the combination of utility and Treads switching into Bolt better really helps it.

Lando-T just hates not having Defog, so the role compression isn't what it used to be. And if you have to choose, hazard clear is rarer and more valuable in this meta than setting Rocks. It still has a place on some more offensive teams. But I also think most offensive teams have better options if they don't really need another pivot and/or Ground immunity.

 

[ScribeofRevocis]

Okay, going to adress this, but it really struggles with a good amount of these IMO. ID Zama it straight up loses to if its Tera Fire, an extremely common Tera type since it also can help beat HexPult and resist the multiple Fairy type attacks aimed at it.

True, hurricane/roar molt can kinda win tho. And if ur team can't handle tera fire Zama then you can always tera Ghost hurricane moltres

Dnite commonly runs either Tera Blast Flying (which straight up 2hkos so if Molt doesn't have Wisp it just loses on the spot, nevermind Lum variants) or Rock Slide/Stedge which also nukes Moltres. Kingambit also runs Tera Fire a decent amount of the time and it can STILL lose to burned Gambit if its not physically defensive (+2 burned with like, two overlord boosts 2HKO's). Val can commonly run Tbolt on its Calm Mind sets (the primary set Molt is answering, SD it just hates Knock Off) which either 2HKO's it or nearly OHKO's depending on the spread. Stedge is definetely a set, particularly on Booster Speed BU sets with Taunt, which are incredibly scary for faster paced teams but can also put in work against defensive teams. Molt just loses to this so the Tusk player has a lot easier time clicking Headlong.

I feel like all this stuff is super niche, like I've never seen rock slide Dnite ever and I commonly reside in 1800s ladder. Tera fire Gambit is also a lot more niche, it has like 10% usage atm since it only really helps versus like wisp pult, ace, and molt, versus the other things ghost/fairy provide. All this stuff doesn't rly make molt BAD it just makes it worse against really specific varients of mons

 

[Magcargo]

I think all of them are at least pretty good, but it might be Enam. The speed tier just isn't impressive for a pure offensive mon. It is also really choiced reliant, making playing around it easier. The main thing that saves it is Specs Moonblast and EP coverage being hard to switch into. Some team structures just lose to that. Even then, it's pretty easy to RK. Scarf sets are a fraud. Stellar Scarf can catch you by surprise, maybe, but it still is highly situational and a Tera hog. Iron Valiant is just better most of the time.

I can't believe I am saying this, but Lando-T is probably the worst ground type left in OU. Tusk is a beast, Lu is the wall, and Gliscor is just the better Flying/Ground. Treads is a little closer, but the combination of utility and Treads switching into Bolt better really helps it.

Lando-T just hates not having Defog, so the role compression isn't what it used to be. And if you have to choose, hazard clear is rarer and more valuable in this meta than setting Rocks. It still has a place on some more offensive teams. But I also think most offensive teams have better options if they don't really need another pivot and/or Ground immunity.

Well, Scarf compresses a lot of utility. Its a decent Great Tusk switch-in (lot of offensive teams don't like switching into Headlong Rush), probably the best set at handling Zamazenta since it doesn't have to deal with getting outsped & potentially one-shot, solid speed control in general since many of the best speed control options (zama, pult, Darkrai) are just weak to Moonblast, and Healing Wish utility is MASSIVE for some of your other Pokemon such as Zamazenta, Kingambit, or certain Dragonite to make it easier for them to clean the game. Tera Stellar also is just a nice tera punisher if you call out the teras on some targets like Zamazenta, though tera Ground is also effective vs many of the common Tera types that mons like Darkrai or Zama would go vs enam.

 

[ScribeofRevocis]

I think all of them are at least pretty good, but it might be Enam. The speed tier just isn't impressive for a pure offensive mon. It is also really choiced reliant, making playing around it easier. The main thing that saves it is Specs Moonblast and EP coverage being hard to switch into. Some team structures just lose to that. Even then, it's pretty easy to RK. Scarf sets are a fraud. Stellar Scarf can catch you by surprise, maybe, but it still is highly situational and a Tera hog. Iron Valiant is just better most of the time.

I don't totally agree with this but yea enamorus isn't allat. Specs is pretty shiest tho, but it's kinda easy to scout if they have a glowking.

I can't believe I am saying this, but Lando-T is probably the worst ground type left in OU. Tusk is a beast, Lu is the wall, and Gliscor is just the better Flying/Ground. Treads is a little closer, but the combination of utility and Treads switching into Bolt better really helps it.

Lando-T just hates not having Defog, so the role compression isn't what it used to be. And if you have to choose, hazard clear is rarer and more valuable in this meta than setting Rocks. It still has a place on some more offensive teams. But I also think most offensive teams have better options if they don't really need another pivot and/or Ground immunity.

Agreed tbh. It's not even that lando is bad or anything it's just like, why use this guy when you have gliscor, who has WAY more longevity, spikes, knock, and the same other tools, and even the same typing? It's also just hard to find a slot for it over the other ground mons yea

 

[Eviolite Bisharp]

First post here in a while but in y'alls opinion, what is the worst mon currently ranked OU?
I think it's Iron Moth personally, almost every team has at least two mons that beat it, and the booster set is kinda useless after it switches
It kind of feels like a potential man kind of mon but I haven't seen anyone really do anything like that with it besides something like specs under sun

Dragonite is the worst to face on team preview so i will vote for him

Ok seriously, this is a very interesting question and i think there are many candidates that could fit in

First, Iron Clown has some nice tools going for it, but it doesn't live to them and Gholdengo it's a better choice overall, although it's one of the best checks to Kyurem with AV and that has value considering how hard Kyurem destroys half of the meta lol

I'm also tempted to say Iron Moth but it's not the fault of the mon that people are still using that Booster Speed shit when you can have a proto Chi-Yu in sun teams with Modest Specs or a Booster SpA in Webs. As amphibians riseup/658greninja said "The sooner you drop that speed booster garbage, the sooner you unlock Iron Moth's true potential"

I already mentioned the funny fish on my upper comment so i wont speak again

This is probably a hot take, but Galarian Weezing is kind of one of the most mediocre mons in the tier, and i think the meta and hazard control options have evolved enough for teams to be able to handle the golden cheese and the hazards it's withstanded with tasking. Still i think it has a good niche on fat teams but it's not that great even on those. While it's typing is really good in this meta, it doesn't have recovery outside of Pain Split and it struggles a lot to do progress against common mons like Garganacl or Heatran (i put gliscor but i forgot that neutralizing gas nullifies poison heal so...). I would even seriously argue that Fezandipiti is better as a defensive mon than Weezing if you only are looking for a Fairy/Poison mon

 

[UltraSword]

I think all of them are at least pretty good, but it might be Enam. The speed tier just isn't impressive for a pure offensive mon. It is also really choiced reliant, making playing around it easier. The main thing that saves it is Specs Moonblast and EP coverage being hard to switch into. Some team structures just lose to that. Even then, it's pretty easy to RK. Scarf sets are a fraud. Stellar Scarf can catch you by surprise, maybe, but it still is highly situational and a Tera hog. Iron Valiant is just better most of the time.

I disagree but I see where you are coming from since I used to think similarly. It is definitely on the (much) lower end of viability of pokemon ranked OU, but I think it is pretty good despite that. It is an alright answer to Zamazenta and Great Tusk and also has some great tools like earth power, mystical fire, and healing wish. The only good set imo is scarf since specs is too slow and the faster you use healing wish when it is time the better.

I can't believe I am saying this, but Lando-T is probably the worst ground type left in OU. Tusk is a beast, Lu is the wall, and Gliscor is just the better Flying/Ground. Treads is a little closer, but the combination of utility and Treads switching into Bolt better really helps it.

Lando-T just hates not having Defog, so the role compression isn't what it used to be. And if you have to choose, hazard clear is rarer and more valuable in this meta than setting Rocks. It still has a place on some more offensive teams. But I also think most offensive teams have better options if they don't really need another pivot and/or Ground immunity.

Lando T is definitely the worst ground type yeah. It is definitely carried a lot by both intimidate and a serviceable special attack, but I can definitely see it drop to UU in the next gen unless it gets a really big buff.

Calling Dozo the worse mon in the tier is such a bad take lol, It is the glue that hold stall teams together, acting as a superb check to so many physical attackers. It's not just a case of "only a stall sample team uses it", I don't think I've seen a stall team without it because it offers way too much in one slot.

Excluding Teras on both sides, we got Kingambit, DD Kyurem, Ceruledge, Cinderace, Physical Pult, Dragonite, SD Gliscor, BU Tusk, Zamazenta etc etc I could go on but you get the point. Sure some of these mons have potential ways to win, like Dnite running Encore or how Ace will always U-Turn (tbf Dozo shouldn't be your Ace button) but the point here is without this fish, stall gets run over so easily. I'd argue the fact that Dozo is as high as it is in usage despite being only on stall teams with stall being ROUGH to play this gen, really shows how vital it is to the playstyle.

Stall is a pretty bad team style this gen overall which is why all of the other dedicated stall mons are UU or below. Dondozo is a great stall mon sure but what does it actually accomplish outside of stall? There is no place on it on any other team style since it is so passive. It is perhaps the biggest one trick pony in OU as its only set variety is changing which attacking move you use, all of which have various problems. Dondozo holds stall together somewhat but idk how that helps its case when stall is probably the worst it has ever been. Dondozo is not a gen 7/8 Toxapex or a gen 3 Blissey that almost manage to make stall good on its own while also being good outside of it. As I mentioned before, I hope Dondozo also drops to UU because I feel like there it can be a lot more relevant.

 

[RoyalDispenser]

Anything that drops webs is the worst mon in the tier.

Every web setter historically drops and raises all the way from NU to OU and vice versa depending on the popularity of webs playstyle itself. They’re all suicide leads and nothing else really.

And even if webs is some op strat, then there comes a game where even the webs are useless cause everything is boots/levitate/flying and you’re essentially playing 6v5 with an NU mon.

Back when araquanid had toxic you could say the game is less of a 6v5 cause araquanid could do some silly shit either with it’s damage or crippling beyond just webs but araquanid is not doing much of value besides spooking gliscors if it’s not getting webs up.

It’s kinda testament to webs themselves how valuable they are when a Pokémon flip flops between NU and OU depending on how many web players are active that month and there isn’t even enough with access to webs to just play a consistent OU one over something that doesn’t even stick in nearby tiers below OU. Iron moth and friends would at least stick UU or BL.

 

[658Greninja]

First post here in a while but in y'alls opinion, what is the worst mon currently ranked OU?
I think it's Iron Moth personally, almost every team has at least two mons that beat it, and the booster set is kinda useless after it switches
It kind of feels like a potential man kind of mon but I haven't seen anyone really do anything like that with it besides something like specs under sun

Big Don Bozo is such an easy pick. Though there are other candidates like Iron Crown and Iron (mid) Moth, Dondozo feels more MU fishy and less consistent in said matchups.

Even in SV OU, matchup consistency is sought after. Having multiple common matchups where you are deadweight is awful for your track record. There is a reason Zamazenta manages to be Top 3 in the metagame despite having multiple matchups where it is unable to make progress. Its bad matchups can be circumvented easily in the builder. It struggles with physically fat pivots, Pech, and others depending on the set, but that’s fine because Zama works well with several relevant breakers and mons that MU well into Pech anyways.

Dondozo’s shortcomings are harder to work around. Its over reliant on Rest to stay healthy. It’s very passive as many things can swap into Dozo and threaten it out, and it has no ways of forcing process. This severely limits the structures Dondozo finds itself on. Its either Stall or very specific Balance structures. It doesn’t help that Stall is bad in this current meta. Too many MU either crack open Stall like an egg, or outlast Stall.

 

[Eviolite Bisharp]

Big Don Bozo is such an easy pick. Though there are other candidates like Iron Crown and Iron (mid) Moth, Dondozo feels more MU fishy and less consistent in said matchups.

Moth is only mid when people use Booster speed, but if you don't have something like Heatran then Specs Modest Overheat under sun becomes the closest thing to a Chi-Yu level wallbreaker on this tier

 

[ScribeofRevocis]

Moth is only mid when people use Booster speed, but if you don't have something like Heatran something like Specs Modest Overheat under sun becomes the closest thing to a Chi-Yu level wallbreaker on this tier

Ehh it's definitely not bad but it's not without flaws, and it fights vs wake for a place in a sun team anyways. Again, Moth is kind of just a mon thats hypothetically good, but nobody has really shown that it's powerful yet

 

[Eviolite Bisharp]

Ehh it's definitely not bad but it's not without flaws, and it fights vs wake for a place in a sun team anyways. Again, Moth is kind of just a mon thats hypothetically good, but nobody has really shown that it's powerful yet

Well, i'm not saying that it doesn't, but you can try to fulfill two different roles with both of these pokemon: you can use a less inmediatly threatening set of WW like Wise Glasses with Booster Speed to be better against offense since you have another really inmediatly strong wallbreaker with Specs Moth that can make better the matchup against fat. In fact, check this calc:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Fiery Dance over 2 turns vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 532-628 (81.5 - 96.3%) -- not a KO. Not even Blissey can wall this set because Fiery dance can grab a SpA boost