Bored of Talking about tiering action because obviously nothing stands out as "broken" or "unbeatable". although I see we were discussing who the worst OU mon is and I have seen some absolute horrendus takes
First post here in a while but in y'alls opinion, what is the worst mon currently ranked OU?
I think it's Iron Moth personally, almost every team has at least two mons that beat it, and the booster set is kinda useless after it switches
It kind of feels like a potential man kind of mon but I haven't seen anyone really do anything like that with it besides something like specs under sun
The worst OU mon is obviously Dondozo. lacks splashable outside of stall and certain fat balance teams. HO dozo is fake. Dondozo is not even mandatory on stall as we have seen developments of foul play usage on mons like mandibuzz, pecharunt, etc for example. The real glue to stall is gliscor+regen mon(mola/pex)+blissey/clodsire, not dozo.
Honourable Mention: Gweezing. Broken ability, but very lame mon. maybe If I see some heat like offensive gweez with overheat I will change my mind, but to me its nothing but a defog and status spam defensive bot with no reliable recovery. tspikes is also broken too but still, lame pokemon. last mon I would ever look at to put on my team.
Iron Crown and I don't think it is really close. Imo it doesn't have very much to offer aside from being a good Kyurem check and even then, it doesn't really switch in well against earth power (it is cleanly 2hkoed by the sub+protect set without AV and still gets 3hkoed with it) and also has to worry about tera. I think it is too weak to dark types (especially Kingambit) to be truly great in OU especially when its best coverage against them is focus blast. That being said I don't think it is terrible since it has a good speed tier and tachyon cutter is a great STAB. It can definitely do some stuff in the right match up but I think overall it is not that good.
As for Iron Moth I feel like one of the reasons it is "bad" is because we aren't really seeing enough variation. I think it does have some genuinely untapped potential in certain areas (for example I don't know why no one uses booster SpA with agility and tb ground because I can see that cooking).
Iron crown disrespect is so lame. obviously its a fringe but but I see a lot of narrow minded POVs about iron crown. if you actually utilize it as an attacker instead of a kyurem check bot with AV you will actually value out of it. speed booster calm mind, very threatening set, specs is still scary if you're not careful, still forces a decent amount of chip. maybe next time explore its good sets instead of using slop like AV iron crown to pretend you have a good kyurem check in the builder.
I think it's Iron Moth personally, almost every team has at least two mons that beat it, and the booster set is kinda useless after it switches
It kind of feels like a potential man kind of mon but I haven't seen anyone really do anything like that with it besides something like specs under sun
Iron Moth may feel mid, but it has decent set variety. even though speed booster moth may feel mid, a well positioned one can effeciently clean teams. There is also other decent sets like spatk booster, agility variants, tspikes variants, meteor beam variants, iron moth does indeed have a bag and is a decent edition on threat spam HO teams. we are very lucky this mon doesnt have real set up moves like quiver dance or nasty plot, otherwise it will be terrorizing the meta even more.
If I had to give an answer, I'd say its Moltres ngl.
Calling one of the Premier defensive mons in the tier the worst OU ranked mon, absolute insanity.
Moltres is just stuck in a hard place rn. It wants to be spdef to actually check Kyurem (one of its main mons it can answer), but it also wants to be phys defense to check the variety of physical attackers like Gambit, Zama and Dnite.
no its not. if it has good defensive partners (pecharunt,tusk for example), spdef moltres is free to run. if moltres has to carry the team, it runs physdef, it's not rocket science.
Okay, going to adress this, but it really struggles with a good amount of these IMO. ID Zama it straight up loses to if its Tera Fire, an extremely common Tera type since it also can help beat HexPult and resist the multiple Fairy type attacks aimed at it. Dnite commonly runs either Tera Blast Flying (which straight up 2hkos so if Molt doesn't have Wisp it just loses on the spot, nevermind Lum variants) or Rock Slide/Stedge which also nukes Moltres. Kingambit also runs Tera Fire a decent amount of the time and it can STILL lose to burned Gambit if its not physically defensive (+2 burned with like, two overlord boosts 2HKO's). Val can commonly run Tbolt on its Calm Mind sets (the primary set Molt is answering, SD it just hates Knock Off) which either 2HKO's it or nearly OHKO's depending on the spread. Stedge is definetely a set, particularly on Booster Speed BU sets with Taunt, which are incredibly scary for faster paced teams but can also put in work against defensive teams. Molt just loses to this so the Tusk player has a lot easier time clicking Headlong. Lando can just Taunt Molt but people have even started experimenting with options such as Rock Tomb or Smack Down, which just completely ruin Molt. Hexpult is indeed its best MU, but if its spdef molt, then its struggling to switch in consistently against Darts, as they are doing 35-40% consistently, forcing Molt to Roost in order to stay healthy enough to answer it. Kyurem has been running AV a lot more which it just HATES. Not only does Flamethrower do less, but also Kyurem can commonly run Modest, which means that Moltres is also taking way more damage, where phys def is getting 2HKO'd by Ice Beam while Spdef is still taking 30% and doing a measly 20% back. Nevermind that if it has Draco, it can just nuke it from half health. And ghold IDT I have to explain, since you already said its only sometimes.
The primary issue with Molt currently is that its very easy to get around it without even trying, a lot of the techs to beat Moltres are also techs you would just naturally fit on teams because they are good techs. People didn't use Stedge Tusk just because it nails Molt, but it also hits Zapdos, Waterpon, Kyurem, Torn-T etc. Val is running Tbolt to help against AV Mola, Torn, Spdef Corv etc. I think you get the point. I'm not saying that Molt is some dogshit mon that should be C rank, rather that it heavily struggles in the current meta because a lot of the techs and general trends do not favour it. Compare that to Crown and Moth, both of which I think are much more favourable into current trends (Crown really likes Kyurem being popular and also enjoys Hatt/Val being good rn. While Moth appreciate Ghold, Pecha, Sun etc.) and I think Molt is kinda just worse then the other two.
Citing sets specifically designed to tech for moltres to try and argue in favour of moltres being the worst OU ranked mon, not optimal for base argument.
Calling Dozo the worse mon in the tier is such a bad take lol
No it's not, it's common sense.
It is the glue that hold stall teams together, acting as a superb check to so many physical attackers. It's not just a case of "only a stall sample team uses it", I don't think I've seen a stall team without it because it offers way too much in one slot.
Excluding Teras on both sides, we got Kingambit, DD Kyurem, Ceruledge, Cinderace, Physical Pult, Dragonite, SD Gliscor, BU Tusk, Zamazenta etc etc I could go on but you get the point. Sure some of these mons have potential ways to win, like Dnite running Encore or how Ace will always U-Turn (tbf Dozo shouldn't be your Ace button) but the point here is without this fish, stall gets run over so easily.
Dozo is Dozo on stall, but its not the glue. there have been stall teams without dondozo. not optimal for base argument.
I'd argue the fact that Dozo is as high as it is in usage despite being only on stall teams with stall being ROUGH to play this gen, really shows how vital it is to the playstyle.
?? how does this prove anything, nonsense argument.
Now if you want my opinion, I'd say its Ttar. Being honest, I don't even know how its OU, I think I've seen Ttar maybe once or twice. Maybe it helps out with dealing with Pech or something? So curious question, what does Ttar even do in this tier, is it not just a worse Ting Lu as a more bulky hazard setter or an outclassed physical attacker that can't even tera to avoid taking damage from its own ability.
calling Ttar the worst mon in the tier, insanity. calling Ttar budget ting lu when it has better attacking move options and access to knock off, insanity. Ttar also checks kyurem, somethign ting lu can't do unless it burns tera. The fact that pech is the first thing that comes to you mind when thinking about how Ttar impacts the meta should disregard your argument on this. The whole appeal of Ttar is that it's a strong attacker with good coverage, good defensive profile with +1 spdef boost in sand and utility moves in knock off, roar, twave, stealth rocks, synergizes well with a lot of mons like rillaboom,zapdos,etc and can disrupt playstyles and strategies with it's ability alone. not the worst pokemon in OU.
I think all of them are at least pretty good, but it might be Enam. The speed tier just isn't impressive for a pure offensive mon. It is also really choiced reliant, making playing around it easier. The main thing that saves it is Specs Moonblast and EP coverage being hard to switch into. Some team structures just lose to that. Even then, it's pretty easy to RK. Scarf sets are a fraud. Stellar Scarf can catch you by surprise, maybe, but it still is highly situational and a Tera hog. Iron Valiant is just better most of the time.
Calling one of the premier scarf users and moonblast spammers in a meta where a lot of teams don't pack proper fairy resist the worst OU ranked mon, insanity. calling scarf enam a fraud, insanity. saying iron valiant is better most of the time, not optimal for being honest.
I can't believe I am saying this, but Lando-T is probably the worst ground type left in OU.
Calling Lando-t the worst OU ground when iron treads exist, absolute insanity.
Gliscor is just the better Flying/Ground.
Calling gliscor the better flying/ground, absolute insanity.
Lando-T just hates not having Defog
Lando-T is fine without Defog.
It still has a place on some more offensive teams. But I also think most offensive teams have better options if they don't really need another pivot and/or Ground immunity.
saying offensive teams have better options, when there's no mons that can replicate what lando-T offers to offense, insanity.
Lando T is definitely the worst ground type yeah. It is definitely carried a lot by both intimidate and a serviceable special attack, but I can definitely see it drop to UU in the next gen unless it gets a really big buff.
Agreeing with this horrible take and adding more nonsense on top of that, not optimal for common sense.
Anything that drops webs is the worst mon in the tier.
Every web setter historically drops and raises all the way from NU to OU and vice versa depending on the popularity of webs playstyle itself. They’re all suicide leads and nothing else really.
And even if webs is some op strat, then there comes a game where even the webs are useless cause everything is boots/levitate/flying and you’re essentially playing 6v5 with an NU mon.
Back when araquanid had toxic you could say the game is less of a 6v5 cause araquanid could do some silly shit either with it’s damage or crippling beyond just webs but araquanid is not doing much of value besides spooking gliscors if it’s not getting webs up.
It’s kinda testament to webs themselves how valuable they are when a Pokémon flip flops between NU and OU depending on how many web players are active that month and there isn’t even enough with access to webs to just play a consistent OU one over something that doesn’t even stick in nearby tiers below OU. Iron moth and friends would at least stick UU or BL.
Common sense.
Ok. You have a point about Choice Scarf for Healing Wish. I would still rather use something like Latias for HW, though, since the speed tier and bulk is better. Latias also gets Trick, which is quite handy on choice sets.
Trying to imply that Latias is superior to enamorus, insanity.
That aside, Specs is just better on Enam. It's far harder to switch into. The reason why I stated Tera Stellar is because that is the one thing that has real snowball potential with Scarf Enam, gimmick though it may be. Tera Ground is good, but any Scarf that isn't running Stellar is just lacking in juice.
Both sets are equally good and server their own purposes.
Using a mon with less than 110 base speed for Scarf in this gen is very... Well, stuff like Tusk (even though it's more of a Net Dex thing) or Kyurem can work since they have power and bulk. But if you are going with paper defenses like Enam, it's kind of tragic to see yourself still get outsped by a Deo-S, BE speed Moth, Trailblaze Wellspring, or virtually every boosted mon that is actually fast this gen. And it's even worse if you don't run Timid because, let's face it, Scarf Timid hits like a wet paper bag by gen 9 OU standards.
Enam isn't as frail as you're making it out be, it can live hits like Ival after taking rock damage and Oger cudgel from full for example. considering how many teams lack proper fairy resist its pretty easy for scarf enam to clean late game.
Enamorus also gets revenge killed by most priority pretty easily, making the speed tier even less reliable. Many teams pack priority because of how threatening setup sweepers are this gen, so this isn't exactly a rare occurance.
Saying a mon that resist gambit sucker punch and rillaboom grassy glide is easily revenge killed by priority, insanity.
You might wonder why Specs would be better when it isn't as fast. The point of specs is damage, though. The point of Scarf is speed, which is sabotaged by your sub base 110 speed and fragile constitution making you vulnerable to priority. With Specs, all that matters is that your opponent has trouble switching into it when you bring it on something slow. You play it like a kinda fast wall breaker.
again, idk how a mon that resist the most common priority users is vulnerable to priority.
Tyranitar. It's almost always outclassed by another mon regardless of what set it's running.
Calling the only viable mon with the sandstorm ability outclassed, absolute nonsense.
Also, the fact that it's weak to 60% of the tier is pathetic.
doesn't mean much when you're bulky enough to take hits and trade with mons. also has a lot of important resistances like flying, ghost, and fire.
Haven,t played much OU recently, but if I had to choose a single worst Mon, I would go with Clef.
Calling a glue piece on bootspam and hazard stack teams the single worst ranked OU mon, bad opinion.
but rarely wins games by itself and rarely stops biggest offensive threats.
First of all, it can win games by itself. 2 winning games "by yourself" shouldn't be a criteria in the first place.
Another answer to consider:
Everything this 'mon does is exploitable. Grassy Terrain is cool, but in a screens meta it serves as a double edged sword, and often benefits the opponent more than its teammates. We're also seeing a ton of rocky helmets recently, which punishes pivot spamming (not to mention Rilla often just kills itself with wood hammer recoil into helmet). It hates facing common defensive staples like Pech, G-Weez, Hydrapple, or any of the birds. Offensive teams also have plenty of 'mons that can check it and exert pressure back (Zama, 'Nite, Kyurem, Moth, etc.).
All its sets have very exploitable downsides, which makes it hard to teambuild around.
- Band is heavily prediction reliant and serves as easy setup fodder even when you do click the correct move.
- SD Life Orb sets are powerful, but only ever get one chance for setup, and are easily answered by common anti-offense options due to limited coverage. You can run Tera Blast for this, but then the sets become extremely tera reliant.
- Terrain Extender enables some neat synergy, but gterrain teams are extremely mediocre and rarely worth the teambuilding restrictions.
- Boots helps with longevity problems, but you really feel the lack of power, and it needs specific support to work.
- Scarf exists only for the surprise factor, and suffers from the same damage issues Boots does. Once it's revealed it becomes even easier to play around than band.
It is not surprising at all that Rilla has by far the lowest winrate of any OU mon when you consider this SPL and last SCL. It was brought to 13 games this SPL and managed to only win one of them (7% winrate), with a 33% winrate last SCL over 18 games to boot. The meta is just not favorable to it at all right now.
Trying to include rillaboom in this argument, absolute insanity
