• Smogon Premier League is here and the team collection is now available. Support your team!

Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [ survey results -- see post 21,221 ]

-Again, not true. Cinderace and hatteren also fit on BO and balance teams, which Lando can fit on as well so most teams are not forced to stack grounds to accomidate Lando-T. even then Great Tusk+lando-T on the same team isn't the end of the world.
Hatt yea, but its quite greedy to just use hatt as a hazard check. Ace/Hatt def does exist and in those situations you could use lando for sure.
https://pokepast.es/77a8c79637600715
cool ace/hatt/lando team I used that WOULD have kept me in OST if my poor, blind iron crown wore his glasses and didn't miss 5 back-to-back focus blasts.
-in terms of pivoting, it's not really a competition for lando. also your definition of better hasn't been clear.
Yea lando's def the best for pivoting, but here, by better I mean:
Gliscor: spikes, knock, toxic, longevity, sd sets, better for teams that want to last longer. It doesn't have intimidate or the ability to check ipress zama as well, but gliscor would almost always be the better pick on most archetypes that aren't offense (even HO can sometimes run sd gliscor screens but I honestly cant say I know much about that, or if its legit or not). Gliscor can also pivot which is a thing cos it forces quite a lot of switches

Tusk: spin, better vs gambit, stronger, has access to knock and way more coverage, can still rock, is overall bulkie, has more set variety. Lando can U-turn, and the flying type is def better than tusk's secondary in most situations. It also has taunt and intimidate is pretty nice to support its team.
The issue is unless you really want that freed 3rd moveslot on tusk, you can kind of just have tusk be your teams bulky ground who rocks (but can also spin)
lando tusk structures are real but most times you'd rather use a different mon as tusk can compress more than lando can.

Ting-Lu: highkey unfair to compare these two as they do almost totally different stuff; though lu is a lot bulkier, has spikes, uses ruination to chunk anything, phases, and checks half the tier, I'd say its better on most teams. and if you're to use two grounds on those teams for whatever reason 99% of the time you'd just use gliscor (sd scor + lu is pretty real on bootspam or hazard stack teams)

treads: I'd say its kind of close with this comparison here but its also somewhat like the Tusk argument. Treads is a spinner, who can rocks, knock, spinner, is marginally faster (tho tbh still not that fast), and can even pivot, but lets be fr, treads is NOT the better than lando in that role at all.
The two actually kind of perform a lot differently but overall the rare role of a spinner who can compress debatably more than any ground in the tier (rbolt check, volt absorber, spinner, rocker, knocker, steel-type, pivot) makes me lean towards it being a better mon in most situations. Is treads exceptional at any of these roles? No, besides spinning, which its actually pretty good at, it's not. But it compresses so so much into one team slot and does those things decently well. It can also work for offense like lando does, but for even faster paced games. Steel beam also lets it potentially OHKO hatterene and then nearly guarantee rocks up after with the booster speed sets, which is pretty unique. (not really worth mentioning but still)

probs more to say but tired
 
What the Lando fraud advocates miss is that it's a ground type stealth rocker with taunt, so it beats Corv. Beating Corv + being a U-turn pivot is a niche that sets it apart from the other ground types, and a pretty good one. Is it a little hard to fit? Sometimes. But it's still a Lando.
 
Hello please forgive my english. I would like to ask people to consider something when talking about the utility of :landorus_therian: relative to other ground types and hazard options, which I don't think has been mentioned yet, and that is tempo. Maybe it has been mentioned I couldn't read all the posts, but lando by far gives the best tempo of all the ground types in the tier apart from perhaps steel beam booster :iron_treads:, which is one time use anyway, and doesn't have the benefit of intim and helmet chip.

What do I mean by tempo. By this I mean the ability to pivot in short, but also have utility and reason to switch in. :landorus_therian: has historically been one of the best options for this job, and in this generation continues to be. Whilst things like AV :alomomola: and a few others might be better at this job, you also want a ground type on every team to not get bullied by mainly :raging_bolt: and also gives no outplay potential for volt switch in general.

:great_tusk:, booster :iron_treads:, and even :ting_lu: are excellent options on offense builds, however they all lack in a few areas relative to :landorus_therian:. :great_tusk: cannot pivot outside the one time eject pack, booster :iron_treads: is one time use and volt switch on booster sets is not only blockable, but also means you aren't running one of rocks, ice spinner, knock off, or iron head (I like this for :clefable:, split :hatterene:, fairy :garganacl:, and surprising :iron_valiant: trying to set up on you). Usually it means no ice spinner though, allowing other ground types ( :landorus_therian: ) to come in on you and grab a free u-turn or pop rocks themselves or pop an eq if you have limited switches into it, which I will talk about next.

One thing I've noticed when running BO teams is that, unless you're running a :tornadus_therian:, your earthquake switch ins are not very good. Many teams I've encountered will run :dragonite: as their only ground immune (see sample teams for several examples), which, unless you are leftovers, is not something you can switch into u turn ever, because the opponent just goes into something which forces you to switch or tera if you want to roost back to multiscale. Having lando allows you to not only come in on the eq u turn combo, but also get rocky helmet chip, which can be instrumental in setting up the endgame for your :kingambit:.

Any Pokémon can hold a rocky helmet, but why use :landorus_therian: uniquely is also a ground switch in, anti removal (anti-defog and forces corv to take chip, helping your team) and the ability to pivot into offensive breakers. In a tier with such a saturated threat count where every utility and defensive role needs to be very compressed, having a generally bulky mon that can take a hit, or multiple if played well, get helmet chip, set up rocks, and pivot out quite freely, is very strong when paired with something like :hatterene: for double hazard control and potentially double helmet chip, whilst also making :hatterene: and other team members more annoying to kill after the opponent is at -1 atk, giving you more entry points versus using other pivots!

Next we can talk about taunt, which I lowkenuinely think is the best move in the game outside Hazards. Or atleast it is the most fun to use. Being able to force chip to stay Vs bulkier teams by blocking defog and recovery to enable your sweepers is a very powerful tool, and it also stops the otherwise free tera + setup combo on mons like dnite or gambit in the endgame, allowing you to keep them at -1 or +0 atk for the rest of your team (and get helmet chip!). Outside the niche options of booster speed bulk up :great_tusk: sets, which I think are also very good on offensive builds for the same reasons, but lack rocks, or max speed jolly :ting_lu: (try it out if you haven't it's very fun into fat) but apart from these I don't think taunt is really used outside :landorus_therian: or :iron valiant: (but Val runs everything so that doesn't count). Standard :great_tusk: would be giving up rocks or ice spinner or knock or whatever other coverage you run on it if you slotted taunt, which creates the same issue as :iron_treads: that I discussed earlier for slotting volt switch on

This isn't even discussing the potential of offensive :landorus_therian: sets, which is mainly just scarf tb right now unless you're trying to snipe fat with smack down sd sub or something like this. But these mainly fit on different team architypes than the one I'm discussing so I won't mention them anymore. Side note though I do love banded sets on teams that have a way of dealing with :corviknight: and :gliscor:.

For a fun building exercise, throw a choiced :landorus_therian: onto an AV :alomomola: + :pecharunt: + :cinderace: pivot slop team alongside another choice user with a pivot move + a way to lure or beat the aforementioned flying mons, and you can probably farm a lot of points. Maybe this team is ass though I just made it up haha.

Ok thank you for reading this all please let me know if I am missing any nuance but I do think :landorus_therian: is very good and useful in the current meta! I recently got top 10 on the ladder for the first time using a team that I plan on RMTing soon if I can push a bit higher with it, and :landorus_therian: has been instrumental in many of the areas that I discussed in this post in a way that no other mon could have been!

A buddy of mine pointed out that I neglected to mention defensive u-turn :gliscor: which is very true. :gliscor: being able to come in frequently and grab momentum as well is something worth considering, but the lack of helmet and immediate damage in base atk difference + immediate softening of threats through intimidate create enough differentiation in this case, I think, and still justifies using :landorus_therian: on offense teams who prefer the faster traunt on things like :ceruledge: or :dragonite: behind screens, since u-turn :gliscor: to the best of my knowledge, correct me if I am wrong please, often runs less speed and more bulk to get better entry and u-turns off!

Ultimately the ground types overlap a lot, but their unique traits enable them all to be viable depending on what your team needs. I still prefer :landorus_therian: on my BO teams just because that -1atk is such a good crutch to enable the rest of the guys in many situations I've been in haha.
 
Last edited:
Hello please forgive my english. I would like to ask people to consider something when talking about the utility of :landorus_therian: relative to other ground types and hazard options, which I don't think has been mentioned yet, and that is tempo. Maybe it has been mentioned I couldn't read all the posts, but lando by far gives the best tempo of all the ground types in the tier apart from perhaps steel beam booster :iron_treads:, which is one time use anyway, and doesn't have the benefit of intim and helmet chip.

What do I mean by tempo. By this I mean the ability to pivot in short, but also have utility and reason to switch in. :landorus_therian: has historically been one of the best options for this job, and in this generation continues to be. Whilst things like AV :alomomola: and a few others might be better at this job, you also want a ground type on every team to not get bullied by mainly :raging_bolt: and also gives no outplay potential for volt switch in general.

:great_tusk:, booster :iron_treads:, and even :ting_lu: are excellent options on offense builds, however they all lack in a few areas relative to? :landorus_therian:. :great_tusk: cannot pivot outside the one time eject pack, booster :iron_treads: is one time use and volt switch on booster sets is not only blockable, but also means you aren't running one of rocks, ice spinner, knock off, or iron head (I like this for :clefable:, split :hatterene:, fairy :garganacl:, and surprising :iron_valiant: trying to set up on you). Usually it means no ice spinner though, allowing other ground types ( :landorus_therian: ) to come in on you and grab a free u-turn or pop rocks themselves or pop an eq if you have limited switches into it, which I will talk about next.

One thing I've noticed when running BO teams is that, unless you're running a :tornadus_therian:, your earthquake switch ins are not very good. Many teams I've encountered will run :dragonite: as their only ground immune (see sample teams for several examples), which, unless you are leftovers, is not something you can switch into u turn ever, because the opponent just goes into something which forces you to switch or tera if you want to roost back to multiscale. Having lando allows you to not only come in on the eq u turn combo, but also get rocky helmet chip, which can be instrumental in setting up the endgame for your :kingambit:.

Any Pokémon can hold a rocky helmet, but why use :landorus_therian: uniquely is also a ground switch in, anti removal (anti-defog and forces corv to take chip, helping your team) and the ability to pivot into offensive breakers. In a tier with such a saturated threat count where every utility and defensive role needs to be very compressed, having a generally bulky mon that can take a hit, or multiple if played well, get helmet chip, set up rocks, and pivot out quite freely, is very strong when paired with something like :hatterene: for double hazard control and potentially double helmet chip, whilst also making :hatterene: and other team members more annoying to kill after the opponent is at -1 atk, giving you more entry points versus using other pivots!

Next we can talk about taunt, which I lowkenuinely think is the best move in the game outside Hazards. Or atleast it is the most fun to use. Being able to force chip to stay Vs bulkier teams by blocking defog and recovery to enable your sweepers is a very powerful tool, and it also stops the otherwise free tera + setup combo on mons like dnite or gambit in the endgame, allowing you to keep them at -1 or +0 atk for the rest of your team (and get helmet chip!). Outside the niche options of booster speed bulk up :great_tusk: sets, which I think are also very good on offensive builds for the same reasons, but lack rocks, or max speed jolly :ting_lu: (try it out if you haven't it's very fun into fat) I don't think taunt is really used outside :landorus_therian: or :iron valiant: (but Val runs everything so that doesn't count). Standard :great_tusk: would be giving up rocks or ice spinner or knock or whatever other coverage you run on it if you slotted taunt, which creates the same issue as :iron_treads: that I discussed earlier for slotting volt switch on

This isn't even discussing the potential of offensive :landorus_therian: sets, which is mainly just scarf tb right now unless you're trying to snipe fat with smack down sd sub or something like this. But these mainly fit on different team architypes than the one I'm discussing so I won't mention them anymore. Side note though I do love banded sets on teams that have a way of dealing with :corviknight: and :gliscor:.

For a fun building exercise, throw a choiced :landorus_therian: onto an AV :alomomola: + :pecharunt: + :cinderace: pivot slop team alongside another choice user with a pivot move + a way to lure or beat the aforementioned flying mons, and you can probably farm a lot of points. Maybe this team is ass though I just made it up haha.

Ok thank you for reading this all please let me know if I am missing any nuance but I do think :landorus_therian: is very good and useful in the current meta! I recently got top 10 on the ladder for the first time using a team that I plan on RMTing soon if I can push a bit higher with it, and :landorus_therian: has been instrumental in many of the areas that I discussed in this post in a way that no other mon could have been!
Damn, why does everyone put things in better words than I use?
 
Hello please forgive my english. I would like to ask people to consider something when talking about the utility of :landorus_therian: relative to other ground types and hazard options, which I don't think has been mentioned yet, and that is tempo. Maybe it has been mentioned I couldn't read all the posts, but lando by far gives the best tempo of all the ground types in the tier apart from perhaps steel beam booster :iron_treads:, which is one time use anyway, and doesn't have the benefit of intim and helmet chip.

What do I mean by tempo. By this I mean the ability to pivot in short, but also have utility and reason to switch in. :landorus_therian: has historically been one of the best options for this job, and in this generation continues to be. Whilst things like AV :alomomola: and a few others might be better at this job, you also want a ground type on every team to not get bullied by mainly :raging_bolt: and also gives no outplay potential for volt switch in general.

:great_tusk:, booster :iron_treads:, and even :ting_lu: are excellent options on offense builds, however they all lack in a few areas relative to :landorus_therian:. :great_tusk: cannot pivot outside the one time eject pack, booster :iron_treads: is one time use and volt switch on booster sets is not only blockable, but also means you aren't running one of rocks, ice spinner, knock off, or iron head (I like this for :clefable:, split :hatterene:, fairy :garganacl:, and surprising :iron_valiant: trying to set up on you). Usually it means no ice spinner though, allowing other ground types ( :landorus_therian: ) to come in on you and grab a free u-turn or pop rocks themselves or pop an eq if you have limited switches into it, which I will talk about next.

One thing I've noticed when running BO teams is that, unless you're running a :tornadus_therian:, your earthquake switch ins are not very good. Many teams I've encountered will run :dragonite: as their only ground immune (see sample teams for several examples), which, unless you are leftovers, is not something you can switch into u turn ever, because the opponent just goes into something which forces you to switch or tera if you want to roost back to multiscale. Having lando allows you to not only come in on the eq u turn combo, but also get rocky helmet chip, which can be instrumental in setting up the endgame for your :kingambit:.

Any Pokémon can hold a rocky helmet, but why use :landorus_therian: uniquely is also a ground switch in, anti removal (anti-defog and forces corv to take chip, helping your team) and the ability to pivot into offensive breakers. In a tier with such a saturated threat count where every utility and defensive role needs to be very compressed, having a generally bulky mon that can take a hit, or multiple if played well, get helmet chip, set up rocks, and pivot out quite freely, is very strong when paired with something like :hatterene: for double hazard control and potentially double helmet chip, whilst also making :hatterene: and other team members more annoying to kill after the opponent is at -1 atk, giving you more entry points versus using other pivots!

Next we can talk about taunt, which I lowkenuinely think is the best move in the game outside Hazards. Or atleast it is the most fun to use. Being able to force chip to stay Vs bulkier teams by blocking defog and recovery to enable your sweepers is a very powerful tool, and it also stops the otherwise free tera + setup combo on mons like dnite or gambit in the endgame, allowing you to keep them at -1 or +0 atk for the rest of your team (and get helmet chip!). Outside the niche options of booster speed bulk up :great_tusk: sets, which I think are also very good on offensive builds for the same reasons, but lack rocks, or max speed jolly :ting_lu: (try it out if you haven't it's very fun into fat) but apart from these I don't think taunt is really used outside :landorus_therian: or :iron valiant: (but Val runs everything so that doesn't count). Standard :great_tusk: would be giving up rocks or ice spinner or knock or whatever other coverage you run on it if you slotted taunt, which creates the same issue as :iron_treads: that I discussed earlier for slotting volt switch on

This isn't even discussing the potential of offensive :landorus_therian: sets, which is mainly just scarf tb right now unless you're trying to snipe fat with smack down sd sub or something like this. But these mainly fit on different team architypes than the one I'm discussing so I won't mention them anymore. Side note though I do love banded sets on teams that have a way of dealing with :corviknight: and :gliscor:.

For a fun building exercise, throw a choiced :landorus_therian: onto an AV :alomomola: + :pecharunt: + :cinderace: pivot slop team alongside another choice user with a pivot move + a way to lure or beat the aforementioned flying mons, and you can probably farm a lot of points. Maybe this team is ass though I just made it up haha.

Ok thank you for reading this all please let me know if I am missing any nuance but I do think :landorus_therian: is very good and useful in the current meta! I recently got top 10 on the ladder for the first time using a team that I plan on RMTing soon if I can push a bit higher with it, and :landorus_therian: has been instrumental in many of the areas that I discussed in this post in a way that no other mon could have been!

A buddy of mine pointed out that I neglected to mention defensive u-turn :gliscor: which is very true. :gliscor: being able to come in frequently and grab momentum as well is something worth considering, but the lack of helmet and immediate damage in base atk difference + immediate softening of threats through intimidate create enough differentiation in this case, I think, and still justifies using :landorus_therian: on offense teams who prefer the faster traunt on things like :ceruledge: or :dragonite: behind screens, since u-turn :gliscor: to the best of my knowledge, correct me if I am wrong please, often runs less speed and more bulk to get better entry and u-turns off!

Ultimately the ground types overlap a lot, but their unique traits enable them all to be viable depending on what your team needs. I still prefer :landorus_therian: on my BO teams just because that -1atk is such a good crutch to enable the rest of the guys in many situations I've been in haha.
I definitely agree with all of this and stuff like taunt and being an actually good ground type pivot (u-turn on Gliscor is rare and volt switch on Iron Treads is not worth the trouble) make Lando T very unique. The scarf sets are also still good since TB Flying is like Flynium Z Lando T in gen 7 if it was actually fast (though I personally think in most cases you are better off saving your tera for something else). I still think Lando T is the worst ground type overall, but I can see the argument for it being better than Iron Treads because above all else intimidate is still an excellent ability to this day.

Anyway, this will probably be my last post about this topic (until it is brought up again like 6 months from now lol) because at that point I would just be repeating myself.
 
Hello please forgive my english. I would like to ask people to consider something when talking about the utility of :landorus_therian: relative to other ground types and hazard options, which I don't think has been mentioned yet, and that is tempo. Maybe it has been mentioned I couldn't read all the posts, but lando by far gives the best tempo of all the ground types in the tier apart from perhaps steel beam booster :iron_treads:, which is one time use anyway, and doesn't have the benefit of intim and helmet chip.

What do I mean by tempo. By this I mean the ability to pivot in short, but also have utility and reason to switch in. :landorus_therian: has historically been one of the best options for this job, and in this generation continues to be. Whilst things like AV :alomomola: and a few others might be better at this job, you also want a ground type on every team to not get bullied by mainly :raging_bolt: and also gives no outplay potential for volt switch in general.

:great_tusk:, booster :iron_treads:, and even :ting_lu: are excellent options on offense builds, however they all lack in a few areas relative to :landorus_therian:. :great_tusk: cannot pivot outside the one time eject pack, booster :iron_treads: is one time use and volt switch on booster sets is not only blockable, but also means you aren't running one of rocks, ice spinner, knock off, or iron head (I like this for :clefable:, split :hatterene:, fairy :garganacl:, and surprising :iron_valiant: trying to set up on you). Usually it means no ice spinner though, allowing other ground types ( :landorus_therian: ) to come in on you and grab a free u-turn or pop rocks themselves or pop an eq if you have limited switches into it, which I will talk about next.

One thing I've noticed when running BO teams is that, unless you're running a :tornadus_therian:, your earthquake switch ins are not very good. Many teams I've encountered will run :dragonite: as their only ground immune (see sample teams for several examples), which, unless you are leftovers, is not something you can switch into u turn ever, because the opponent just goes into something which forces you to switch or tera if you want to roost back to multiscale. Having lando allows you to not only come in on the eq u turn combo, but also get rocky helmet chip, which can be instrumental in setting up the endgame for your :kingambit:.

Any Pokémon can hold a rocky helmet, but why use :landorus_therian: uniquely is also a ground switch in, anti removal (anti-defog and forces corv to take chip, helping your team) and the ability to pivot into offensive breakers. In a tier with such a saturated threat count where every utility and defensive role needs to be very compressed, having a generally bulky mon that can take a hit, or multiple if played well, get helmet chip, set up rocks, and pivot out quite freely, is very strong when paired with something like :hatterene: for double hazard control and potentially double helmet chip, whilst also making :hatterene: and other team members more annoying to kill after the opponent is at -1 atk, giving you more entry points versus using other pivots!

Next we can talk about taunt, which I lowkenuinely think is the best move in the game outside Hazards. Or atleast it is the most fun to use. Being able to force chip to stay Vs bulkier teams by blocking defog and recovery to enable your sweepers is a very powerful tool, and it also stops the otherwise free tera + setup combo on mons like dnite or gambit in the endgame, allowing you to keep them at -1 or +0 atk for the rest of your team (and get helmet chip!). Outside the niche options of booster speed bulk up :great_tusk: sets, which I think are also very good on offensive builds for the same reasons, but lack rocks, or max speed jolly :ting_lu: (try it out if you haven't it's very fun into fat) but apart from these I don't think taunt is really used outside :landorus_therian: or :iron valiant: (but Val runs everything so that doesn't count). Standard :great_tusk: would be giving up rocks or ice spinner or knock or whatever other coverage you run on it if you slotted taunt, which creates the same issue as :iron_treads: that I discussed earlier for slotting volt switch on

This isn't even discussing the potential of offensive :landorus_therian: sets, which is mainly just scarf tb right now unless you're trying to snipe fat with smack down sd sub or something like this. But these mainly fit on different team architypes than the one I'm discussing so I won't mention them anymore. Side note though I do love banded sets on teams that have a way of dealing with :corviknight: and :gliscor:.

For a fun building exercise, throw a choiced :landorus_therian: onto an AV :alomomola: + :pecharunt: + :cinderace: pivot slop team alongside another choice user with a pivot move + a way to lure or beat the aforementioned flying mons, and you can probably farm a lot of points. Maybe this team is ass though I just made it up haha.

Ok thank you for reading this all please let me know if I am missing any nuance but I do think :landorus_therian: is very good and useful in the current meta! I recently got top 10 on the ladder for the first time using a team that I plan on RMTing soon if I can push a bit higher with it, and :landorus_therian: has been instrumental in many of the areas that I discussed in this post in a way that no other mon could have been!

A buddy of mine pointed out that I neglected to mention defensive u-turn :gliscor: which is very true. :gliscor: being able to come in frequently and grab momentum as well is something worth considering, but the lack of helmet and immediate damage in base atk difference + immediate softening of threats through intimidate create enough differentiation in this case, I think, and still justifies using :landorus_therian: on offense teams who prefer the faster traunt on things like :ceruledge: or :dragonite: behind screens, since u-turn :gliscor: to the best of my knowledge, correct me if I am wrong please, often runs less speed and more bulk to get better entry and u-turns off!

Ultimately the ground types overlap a lot, but their unique traits enable them all to be viable depending on what your team needs. I still prefer :landorus_therian: on my BO teams just because that -1atk is such a good crutch to enable the rest of the guys in many situations I've been in haha.
This is a great post. I just wanted to add that Taunt + Intimidate alone are enough to give Lando-T the ability to have good tempo compared to some of its competition. Occasionally, I will want to run another coverage move on Lando-T - whether it be Stone Edge, Psychic, Grass Knot, etc. Even in those cases, I find myself dropping U-Turn more than Taunt. Taunt is just too crucial of a move in so many situations. Not only in preventing mons like Corv from recovering, Pecharunt / Gking from pivoting, but also denying hazards from Pokemon like Ting-Lu and setup from Pokemon like Dragonite - which often does use Lando-T as a way to begin setting up once its Knocked something out. For offensive teams, I find that if you don't want to use Pokemon like Treads, Cinderace, Tusk to remove hazards (all of which are good Pokemon but feel a bit restricting to use + generally need to run specific sets to even spin against webs or Spikes), then just outright preventing hazards with fast Taunt users is a must, espicially against Ting-Lu. And of course, outright preventing setup is amazing against many of the popular sweepers we see like Dragonite, Ceruledge, and Gambit -regardless of and Tera shenanigans these guys may want to pull off.

Lando-T's main weakness compared to its competitions IMO is just its Rocks vulnerability. I feel it and Corviknight have this issue where Rocks chip is extremely annoying - even if it affects them far less than it would other mons + they don't need to care about Spikes. They can feel like Rocks-weak mons at times against aggressive players.
 
hey so i was talking with kopv18 and they came up with a very nice alternative to scarf great tusk in sun. The set is the following:
1772839058099.png

Great Tusk @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Ice Spinner
- Headlong Rush

The idea behind it being, that in sun, it's only around 5% weaker than scarf adamant great tusk, but in return you get a LOT OF HP, which is very useful in specific situations. I tested it out, and while outside of sun, it's obviously worse, in sun, it created some interesting plays where I was able to make decisions now because i could live a faster attack or 2hko something that could previously 1hko me. what do you think? I think it's a very viable alternative to traditional adamant scarf tusk in sun
 
hey so i was talking with kopv18 and they came up with a very nice alternative to scarf great tusk in sun. The set is the following:
View attachment 814237
Great Tusk @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Ice Spinner
- Headlong Rush

The idea behind it being, that in sun, it's only around 5% weaker than scarf adamant great tusk, but in return you get a LOT OF HP, which is very useful in specific situations. I tested it out, and while outside of sun, it's obviously worse, in sun, it created some interesting plays where I was able to make decisions now because i could live a faster attack or 2hko something that could previously 1hko me. what do you think? I think it's a very viable alternative to traditional adamant scarf tusk in sun
This is a cool idea! Althought i would replace a movement with Rapíd Spin to get more utility out of this set, maybe Knock Off, otherwise it could work if you are using Torkoal instead of Ninetales
 
This is a cool idea! Althought i would replace a movement with Rapíd Spin to get more utility out of this set, maybe Knock Off, otherwise it could work if you are using Torkoal instead of Ninetales
The moves aren't that much the main focus you could put different moves on it. The main idea is just using band instead of scarf and changing the evs. Besides that it could have any moveset that you would put on scarf tusk in sun.
 
hey so i was talking with kopv18 and they came up with a very nice alternative to scarf great tusk in sun. The set is the following:
View attachment 814237
Great Tusk @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Ice Spinner
- Headlong Rush

The idea behind it being, that in sun, it's only around 5% weaker than scarf adamant great tusk, but in return you get a LOT OF HP, which is very useful in specific situations. I tested it out, and while outside of sun, it's obviously worse, in sun, it created some interesting plays where I was able to make decisions now because i could live a faster attack or 2hko something that could previously 1hko me. what do you think? I think it's a very viable alternative to traditional adamant scarf tusk in sun
This looks really cool, and probably is consistent on sun teams. However, have you considered the following?

252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 468-552 (87.6 - 103.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

(I want to build this extremely greedy set but it'll probably end badly lmao)
This set does have some insane calcs besides the above, such as:

252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 370-436 (73.4 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 226-266 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 394-464 (98.7 - 116.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 226-266 (59 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Interesting in theory. I think tusk has a lot more potential besides just being a spinner and utility mon but using it for those pretty much required roles is just so good on most teams
 
This looks really cool, and probably is consistent on sun teams. However, have you considered the following?

252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 468-552 (87.6 - 103.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

(I want to build this extremely greedy set but it'll probably end badly lmao)
This set does have some insane calcs besides the above, such as:

252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 370-436 (73.4 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 226-266 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 394-464 (98.7 - 116.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 226-266 (59 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Interesting in theory. I think tusk has a lot more potential besides just being a spinner and utility mon but using it for those pretty much required roles is just so good on most teams
lol this is biblical greed.. i like it as scarf but you know.... this is amazing haahha i can absolutely see myself using this.
 
This looks really cool, and probably is consistent on sun teams. However, have you considered the following?

252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 468-552 (87.6 - 103.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

(I want to build this extremely greedy set but it'll probably end badly lmao)
This set does have some insane calcs besides the above, such as:

252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 370-436 (73.4 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 226-266 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 394-464 (98.7 - 116.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 226-266 (59 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Interesting in theory. I think tusk has a lot more potential besides just being a spinner and utility mon but using it for those pretty much required roles is just so good on most teams
if you are committing to using tusk as a pure breaker, I've found 4-attacks adamant life orb to be better than band. It still OHKOs most of the tier on a good click and it doesn't have the inherent risk of locking into STAB moves that have immunities, nor do you have to blow tera. It's pretty impossible for fat to pivot around.

Great Tusk @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
- Temper Flare
- Ice Spinner
Rock tomb is also a nice low-risk click against dragonite or zapdos that try to be funny with their pivots

252+ Atk Life Orb Protosynthesis Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Fairy Raging Bolt: 395-465 (101 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
nice tera, nerd
252+ Atk Life Orb Protosynthesis Tera Fire Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 228+ Def Tera Ghost Pecharunt: 191-226 (50.2 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Spinner KOs Gliscor SD gliscor out of sun
Temper Flare is for stunting on em

Tera Fire is so you don't get burned and resist some good stuff. STAB on temperflare is just a bonus.
 
if you are committing to using tusk as a pure breaker, I've found 4-attacks adamant life orb to be better than band. It still OHKOs most of the tier on a good click and it doesn't have the inherent risk of locking into STAB moves that have immunities, nor do you have to blow tera. It's pretty impossible for fat to pivot around.

Great Tusk @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
- Temper Flare
- Ice Spinner
Rock tomb is also a nice low-risk click against dragonite or zapdos that try to be funny with their pivots

252+ Atk Life Orb Protosynthesis Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Fairy Raging Bolt: 395-465 (101 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
nice tera, nerd
252+ Atk Life Orb Protosynthesis Tera Fire Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 228+ Def Tera Ghost Pecharunt: 191-226 (50.2 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Spinner KOs Gliscor SD gliscor out of sun
Temper Flare is for stunting on em

Tera Fire is so you don't get burned and resist some good stuff. STAB on temperflare is just a bonus.
Oooh wow this looks really fun lmao
Might have to try this as well, looks hella scary
Do you have any teams with this?
 
Oooh wow this looks really fun lmao
Might have to try this as well, looks hella scary
Do you have any teams with this?
yes, but it's also kind of a whack team:
:enamorus::ceruledge::ninetales::leavanny::raging bolt::great tusk:
https://pokepast.es/8e65fb39ed121907
(oh, my bad. the ceruledge ev's are broke. these ones are for weak armor. go max speed adamant for flash fire. also, try facade + blade + sneak, tera normal)

Double healing wish, double weather ball and some life orb crackheads. I think there was an :arcanine hisui: in place of ceruledge at one point if you want rocks. That would be 3a+rock with life orb, of course. Decent ladder team, though. Webs get free wins and most boots teams aren't prepared for the raw power.
 
Last edited:
This looks really cool, and probably is consistent on sun teams. However, have you considered the following?

252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 468-552 (87.6 - 103.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

(I want to build this extremely greedy set but it'll probably end badly lmao)
This set does have some insane calcs besides the above, such as:

252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 370-436 (73.4 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 226-266 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 394-464 (98.7 - 116.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fighting Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 226-266 (59 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Interesting in theory. I think tusk has a lot more potential besides just being a spinner and utility mon but using it for those pretty much required roles is just so good on most teams
If you want real greedy stuff go with Modest Specs Iron Moth in sun. That thing is truly cracked if you can deal with Heatran and Tyranitar (which most Sun teams already do)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor in Sun: 404-476 (114.7 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 266-314 (40.7 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Alomomola: 260-308 (48.6 - 57.6%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu in Sun: 284-336 (55.2 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina in Sun: 135-159 (42 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Overheat vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire in Sun: 532-626 (114.9 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Last edited:
If you want real greedy stuff go with Modest Specs Iron Moth in sun. That thing is truly cracked if you can deal with Heatran and Tyranitar (which most Sun teams already do)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor in Sun: 404-476 (114.7 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 266-314 (40.7 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Alomomola: 260-308 (48.6 - 57.6%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu in Sun: 284-336 (55.2 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina in Sun: 135-159 (42 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Overheat vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire in Sun: 532-626 (114.9 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I just want to make sure did you do these calcs with booster SpA also active? If you didn't then this has the potential to be really funny
 
I just want to make sure did you do these calcs with booster SpA also active? If you didn't then this has the potential to be really funny

Bro, if its Specs, it can,t be booster SpA. You would need to use Pincurchin + the Sun setter (Sun setter = bad Mon, Pincurchin = Another bad Mon, so you have to use 2 bad Mons).

I have actually tried doing this like a year ago, but it didn,t work too well: https://pokepast.es/e6991c9be020e9a9
 
I just want to make sure did you do these calcs with booster SpA also active? If you didn't then this has the potential to be really funny
No no, this is without Booster Energy, just pure funny Chi-Yu aura under sun

Honestly i'm kind of surprised that people don't use this that often in sun considering how stupid are the calcs lol
 
Bro, if its Specs, it can,t be booster SpA. You would need to use Pincurchin + the Sun setter (Sun setter = bad Mon, Pincurchin = Another bad Mon, so you have to use 2 bad Mons).

I have actually tried doing this like a year ago, but it didn,t work too well: https://pokepast.es/e6991c9be020e9a9
My bad I forgot it was quark drive and not protosynthesis lol.

Honestly i'm kind of surprised that people don't use this that often in sun considering how stupid are the calcs lol
Probably because it gets outsped and subsequently destroyed by Wogerpon. Even in sun it is a roll to OHKO

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Moth in Sun: 278-330 (92.3 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

So if Iron Moth has taken even the tiniest bit of chip and Wogerpon manages to get in safely it gets destroyed.
 
My bad I forgot it was quark drive and not protosynthesis lol.


Probably because it gets outsped and subsequently destroyed by Wogerpon. Even in sun it is a roll to OHKO

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Moth in Sun: 278-330 (92.3 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

So if Iron Moth has taken even the tiniest bit of chip and Wogerpon manages to get in safely it gets destroyed.
Fair enough lol. Still there are ways to play around Ogerpon with pokemon like Raging Bolt or Venusaur so i think it has potential if you can fit it on your team
 
If you want real greedy stuff go with Modest Specs Iron Moth in sun. That thing is truly cracked if you can deal with Heatran and Tyranitar (which most Sun teams already do)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor in Sun: 404-476 (114.7 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 266-314 (40.7 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Alomomola: 260-308 (48.6 - 57.6%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu in Sun: 284-336 (55.2 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina in Sun: 135-159 (42 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Overheat vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire in Sun: 532-626 (114.9 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I've used this (wasn't modest tho) and it's insanely funny
It also helps wake break through stuff it normally doesn't
I think the issue I'm seeing with this is rock weakness, and how while it's nowhere near slow, it's not really the fastest mon ever.
 
Bro, if its Specs, it can,t be booster SpA. You would need to use Pincurchin + the Sun setter (Sun setter = bad Mon, Pincurchin = Another bad Mon, so you have to use 2 bad Mons).

I have actually tried doing this like a year ago, but it didn,t work too well: https://pokepast.es/e6991c9be020e9a9
i edited the squad slightly and it's actually not that bad. Leavanny is bad yes. so is the sea urchin but that life orb tusk with tempre flare is good and so is the specs on the iron moth. I changed the tera on the dragon to be water
here are two quick replays from the 1700s-1800s
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2554109708-b5xjrlckjpknqiryoa9mlvworha5ctdpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2554096951-he8760hf5etq5ybycxvoy943r49i1xxpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2554122994
 
Last edited:
Iron Jugulis @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
Hurricane
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Knock Off

Opinions on Jugulis? I've seen it quite rarely on ladder but it feels like a decent tool for offensive teams, being a fast knocker and one of the fastest taunters in the game. It can totally disable deos screens leads, and also taunt and ko glimm without activating tspikes.

If you land canes it seems good offensively too, but this is all in theory as I haven't got a chance to try it (yet)
 
Iron Jugulis @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
Hurricane
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Knock Off

Opinions on Jugulis? I've seen it quite rarely on ladder but it feels like a decent tool for offensive teams, being a fast knocker and one of the fastest taunters in the game. It can totally disable deos screens leads, and also taunt and ko glimm without activating tspikes.

If you land canes it seems good offensively too, but this is all in theory as I haven't got a chance to try it (yet)
I had a lot of fun using Jugulis on a rain team. It is kind of underrated in my opinion, but it also feels sooooo specific that i understand why people don't use it more often.

Spamming Hurricane against the myriad of Grass and Fighting types in the meta feels so funny, but against more defensive teams it hits like a wet noodle, and not even Taunt can mess around with some defensive pokemon like Garganacl. I'm personally more fond of going all out special attack with Dark Pulse
 
Back
Top