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Unpopular opinions

I once saw someone describe the Wild Area as a glorified Safari Zone, and ever since then, that’s the only way I’ve been able to think of it. I don’t consider it to be “open” in any meaningful sense, like the two DLC areas are. It’s entirely closed-off from the rest of the region, has absolutely no impact on the progression of the rest of the game, and is itself limited by that very same progression in regards to both the areas that require water biking and the wild Pokémon above your badge level being uncatchable and not worthwhile to engage with. I’m sure it provided the devs with some useful experience for their later, actual open-world endeavors, but the Wild Area itself is essentially just a big, featureless route designed for catching a wide variety of Pokémon.
I think there were potential elements of the Wild Area that could have worked better but didn't for various reasons. GF's insistence on dumping features instead of iterating on them is extremely frustrating.
I rather see the Wild Area as their first experimentation with "what if openworld".

It probably was the first step toward what became SV: you can clearly see how it progressively became more complex going from the original wild area (which was, pretty much just a glorified safari zone) to the Isle of Armor being a single "wild area with some caves" to the Crown Tundra already sporting varied biomes and proper vertical exploration.

It was a starting point: something to see if 1) it works 2) people liked it.
 
With nearly 700 pages it's probably been posted before but... I like Gen 2 and Gen 4's "useless" mons. I don't mind that they're weak or w/e. I actually like that. I think it makes'em feel more like they're really in the world, as existing animals, and not artificially overtuned. They add a lot to the worldbuilding in my eyes. I've seen a lot of hate for mons like Ledyba line, Finneon line, Burmy line, Slugma line... I appreciate them a ton and they feel more real and in-place than most later gen mons for me.
 
With nearly 700 pages it's probably been posted before but... I like Gen 2 and Gen 4's "useless" mons. I don't mind that they're weak or w/e. I actually like that. I think it makes'em feel more like they're really in the world, as existing animals, and not artificially overtuned. They add a lot to the worldbuilding in my eyes. I've seen a lot of hate for mons like Ledyba line, Finneon line, Burmy line, Slugma line... I appreciate them a ton and they feel more real and in-place than most later gen mons for me.

I genuinely believe that shitmons are a vital part of the series, and I hope we always get a few. Like you said, it’s good for the worldbuilding, and it also makes for a lot of fun challenge options.

(I’d still like Lumineon to get Quiver Dance though)
 
I genuinely believe that shitmons are a vital part of the series, and I hope we always get a few. Like you said, it’s good for the worldbuilding, and it also makes for a lot of fun challenge options.

(I’d still like Lumineon to get Quiver Dance though)
Lumineon is not a Bug with large wings and it is not a dancer. Those are the only two kinds of Pokemon that get Quiver Dance.
 
The main issue with Johto's shitmons is that a bunch of them are super rare for no good reason. It makes them really unfulfilling to hunt down. You'd expect the rarer stuff to be better, not worse.
I think its cool that Dunsparce is a rare shitmon because that's the entire joke but it is quite weird that they make a lot of the mons that aren't supposed to be jokes really bad and rare.
 
I think its cool that Dunsparce is a rare shitmon because that's the entire joke but it is quite weird that they make a lot of the mons that aren't supposed to be jokes really bad and rare.
I'm absolutely fine with it being a one-off joke. It's just the same problem as Nurse Joy's continued existence in the anime: they forgot it was supposed to be a joke at some point but kept doing it.
 
The main issue with Johto's shitmons is that a bunch of them are super rare for no good reason. It makes them really unfulfilling to hunt down. You'd expect the rarer stuff to be better, not worse.
And too many “shitmons” can end up making a dex feel underwhelming, and felt like worldbuilding got undermined by how weaker they are than the average Pokémon. A few of those are fine and all; a dozen or more can end up spoiling the experience, and double-whammy by making half of them excessively rare despite their lack of strengths like the case of Johto.

Some players value a Pokémon’s in-game viability for a good reason; if they wasted a lot of time and resource trying to find and catch a Pokémon only to be a “shitmon” more than once, it can cause their confidence and faith on rare Pokémon to plummet and not bother with rare Pokémon anymore for the sake of their sanity.
 
And too many “shitmons” can end up making a dex feel underwhelming, and felt like worldbuilding got undermined by how weaker they are than the average Pokémon. A few of those are fine and all; a dozen or more can end up spoiling the experience, and double-whammy by making half of them excessively rare despite their lack of strengths like the case of Johto.

Some players value a Pokémon’s in-game viability for a good reason; if they wasted a lot of time and resource trying to find and catch a Pokémon only to be a “shitmon” more than once, it can cause their confidence and faith on rare Pokémon to plummet and not bother with rare Pokémon anymore for the sake of their sanity.
This only gets compounded by the common stuff being what way more people have experience with to share, while Rare encounters are less documented. So if it's a "Shitmon" it self-fulfills because players will be discouraged from trying it by the negative word, which in turn means less chance for endorsements to pop out.

Look at how games like Colosseum and XD are such major exceptions to people finding uses for conventionally lame Pokemon, because they're not more effort to get, moreso figuring out what they do well after having them as accessible as most things.
 
Lilligant is also a stone evo so uhhhhh :wo:
Eh, maybe its giant pineapple body just isn't graceful enough to "lightly perform a beautiful, mystic dance" then. Slither Wing can't even though Volcarona can, so that might have something to do with it.

Frankly, this is probably the wrong thread for this, we have a thread specifically for weird moveset stuff like this.
 
Considering Liligant was the only non-Bug Pokémon to get Quiver Dance for the longest time before Oricorio received it as an egg move, I feel like there's some aspect that we're missing and/or was lost in translation to explain why Ludicolo can't have it.

Lombre isn't and Ludicolo is a stone evo so learns basically nothing.
Game Freak has kind of changed their design philosophy on stone evos over the years, so that can't be it. SV gives a few of them access to a bunch of moves via the changed reminder system.
 
Considering Liligant was the only non-Bug Pokémon to get Quiver Dance for the longest time before Oricorio received it as an egg move, I feel like there's some aspect that we're missing and/or was lost in translation to explain why Ludicolo can't have it.

I mean, the description is “a beautiful, mystical dance”. Considering the other non bugs who get it - Bellossom, Lilligant, Oricorio, seems specifically reserved for graceful mons known for dancing. There’s a lot of words you can describe Ludicolo with, but I wouldn’t include graceful. I can’t see it imitating a butterfly/moth’s flight at all.
 
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As much as I love using Swampert in a Pokémon Emerald playthrough, being that it’s my favourite water starter (if not my favourite starter), I will say that it can be overhyped, though I can definitely understand why. Water/Ground typing is an incredible typing as it grants immunity to Electric-type moves and Thunder Wave (gains 4x weakness to grass, but the only notable threat is Wally’s Roselia). This is useful against Wattson, a tough Electric-type Gym leader who can be challenging with Magneton’s and Manectric’s Thunder Waves. The only other ground type you can get is Geodude at Granite Cave, so a team without any ground types can be challenging. Marshtomp can be pretty good against Flannery (although she does have Sunny Day and Body Slam to slow down your stampede). As a bulky water type, Marshtomp can learn Ice Beam via TM to take down Winona’s Altaria, and when it evolves into Swampert, it uses its bulk to use super-effective moves against Tate and Liza, Maxie’s Camerupt and Drake’s Dragons. It also helps that Mudkip is considered to be the best of the three starters.

The problem arises when Swampert falls off after the mid-game, where its Ground sub-type makes it take neutral damage against Water and Ice moves. This can be noticeable when facing off against Juan, Glacia and Wallace, who are definitely more difficult with Wattson, with Juan’s Kingdra having good bulk and an excellent typing, Glacia’s Walrein being a fat tank, and all of Wallace’s mons being individually threatening that can hit Swampert neutrally. The ground typing isn’t that useful after Wattson, as the only trainers that have mons weak to Ground are Wally’s Magneton and Maxie’s Camerupt (which can really be taken down by any other water type). Swampert also can’t really do much against them except for Wallace’s Tentacruel. A strong Water-type in the later parts of the game would need to resist Water and Ice moves to be a great tank for the later parts of the game.

There are some water types that even if they are not necessarily better than Swampert, can also provide value as a good water type whilst also resisting Water and Ice:
  • Gyarados: starts out weak as a Magikarp, but it gets very good after evolving. It is a consistent counter to Torkoal, thanks to its high special defence that helps it take a sun-boosted Overheat easily, and its Dragon Rage will 3HKO Torkoal and won’t be hindered by the Sun. Gyarados has Intimidate for Slaking and can handle Winona like Marshtomp with Ice Beam but also Thunderbolt via TMs. After learning Dragon Dance at Level 50, it can sweep well with Return and Earthquake. Gyarados has always been great since it can learn Dragon Dance, making it a high bar to compare with other water mons.
  • Tentacruel: Also starts out too weak to take hits and to deal damage (good against Flannery, though it needs to watch out for Torkoal’s Body Slam). Once it evolves though it can have great returns. Its Poison Type can help to take down Wallace’s Ludicolo with a TM Sludge Bomb (unless the darn thing gets lucky with Double Team), and its Milotic thanks to its Toxic Immunity and great special defence. It’s also deceptively fast for a special tank. Clear Body can help it against Sidney’s Mightyena spamming Sand Attack or Drake’s Kingdra’s Smokescreen.
  • Walrein: Feel like it’s overlooked a lot. You get it in Shoal Cave, which is pretty late, but also has great returns. A fat tank that has Encore that forces opponents to lock themselves into a move indefinitely (in theory), has Rest to heal itself up (though you can use a Full Restore). Thick Fat, giving it a quadruple Ice Resistance, can be very useful against Juan’s Kingdra as well as some of Wallace’s mons like Milotic or Wailord, who only have Ice and Water coverage. It also doesn’t risk being frozen due to being an Ice type.
Honourable Mentions:
  • Wailord: May not be as bulky as Swampert or Walrein because of its low defences. However, it can hit hard, thanks to Water Spout coming off a respectable 90 special attack. It also has Rest to heal up, so after waking up (or using a Chesto Berry or Awakening), it can use Water Spout again.
  • Pelipper: Pretty Underrated too, with Protect to wall Slaking and to waste Flannery’s Overheat attacks. Keen Eye can actually be useful against Winona’s Skarmory that has Sand Attack, so none of its attacks will miss like Ice Beam or Shock Wave. It falls off sadly after Winona, but I say it’s pretty impressive for a Hoenn Water bird mon.
  • Sharpedo: An anti-setup good mon against Tate and Liza with Taunt denying the duo from setting up screens or Xatu using Confuse Ray, giving Sharpedo to strike back with Crunch (Swampert can attack with Surf but double battles weaken spread moves). Sharpedo does have to watch out for Claydol’s Earthquake. Not as useful as Swampert or the others, but I thought it would be interesting and funny to bring it up, considering the only offensive non-psychic moves they have are Claydol’s Earthquake, Solrock’s Flamethrower and Sunny Day.
Milotic is pretty good too, but I’m not counting it as from what I understand, catching and evolving a Feebas in Emerald could be pretty complicated for someone playing it casually on their first try.

Even though Swampert isn’t S-tier material, that’s not a knock against his strengths. Swampert is still great from the early to mid-game, and is still one of the best mons you can have in Pokémon Emerald.

You'll still be my favourite Water Starter, Swampert.
pokemon-swampert.gif


Edit: Shock Wave actually never misses, so Pelipper's Keen Eye would be redundant against Skarmory. Also Walrein's Thick Fat ability would give it a 8x ice resistance, not a 4x.
 
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As much as I love using Swampert in a Pokémon Emerald playthrough, being that it’s my favourite water starter (if not my favourite starter), I will say that it can be overhyped, though I can definitely understand why. Water/Ground typing is an incredible typing as it grants immunity to Electric-type moves and Thunder Wave (gains 4x weakness to grass, but the only notable threat is Wally’s Roselia). This is useful against Wattson, a tough Electric-type Gym leader who can be challenging with Magneton’s and Manectric’s Thunder Waves. The only other ground type you can get is Geodude at Granite Cave, so a team without any ground types can be challenging. Marshtomp can be pretty good against Flannery (although she does have Sunny Day and Body Slam to slow down your stampede). As a bulky water type, Marshtomp can learn Ice Beam via TM to take down Winona’s Altaria, and when it evolves into Swampert, it uses its bulk to use super-effective moves against Tate and Liza, Maxie’s Camerupt and Drake’s Dragons. It also helps that Mudkip is considered to be the best of the three starters.

The problem arises when Swampert falls off after the mid-game, where its Ground sub-type makes it take neutral damage against Water and Ice moves. This can be noticeable when facing off against Juan, Glacia and Wallace, who are definitely more difficult with Wattson, with Juan’s Kingdra having good bulk and an excellent typing, Glacia’s Walrein being a fat tank, and all of Wallace’s mons being individually threatening that can hit Swampert neutrally. The ground typing isn’t that useful after Wattson, as the only trainers that have mons weak to Ground are Wally’s Magneton and Maxie’s Camerupt (which can really be taken down by any other water type). Swampert also can’t really do much against them except for Wallace’s Tentacruel. A strong Water-type in the later parts of the game would need to resist Water and Ice moves to be a great tank for the later parts of the game.

There are some water types that even if they are not necessarily better than Swampert, can also provide value as a good water type whilst also resisting Water and Ice:
  • Gyarados: starts out weak as a Magikarp, but it gets very good after evolving. It is a consistent counter to Torkoal, thanks to its high special defence that helps it take a sun-boosted Overheat easily, and its Dragon Rage will 3HKO Torkoal and won’t be hindered by the Sun. Gyarados has Intimidate for Slaking and can handle Winona like Marshtomp with Ice Beam but also Thunderbolt via TMs. After learning Dragon Dance at Level 50, it can sweep well with Return and Earthquake. Gyarados has always been great since it can learn Dragon Dance, making it a high bar to compare with other water mons.
  • Tentacruel: Also starts out too weak to take hits and to deal damage (good against Flannery, though it needs to watch out for Torkoal’s Body Slam). Once it evolves though it can have great returns. Its Poison Type can help to take down Wallace’s Ludicolo with a TM Sludge Bomb (unless the darn thing gets lucky with Double Team), and its Milotic thanks to its Toxic Immunity and great special defence. It’s also deceptively fast for a special tank. Clear Body can help it against Sidney’s Mightyena spamming Sand Attack or Drake’s Kingdra’s Smokescreen.
  • Walrein: Feel like it’s overlooked a lot. You get it in Shoal Cave, which is pretty late, but also has great returns. A fat tank that has Encore that forces opponents to lock themselves into a move indefinitely (in theory), has Rest to heal itself up (though you can use a Full Restore). Thick Fat, giving it a quadruple Ice Resistance, can be very useful against Juan’s Kingdra as well as some of Wallace’s mons like Milotic or Wailord, who only have Ice and Water coverage. It also doesn’t risk being frozen due to being an Ice type.
Honourable Mentions:
  • Wailord: May not be as bulky as Swampert or Walrein because of its low defences. However, it can hit hard, thanks to Water Spout coming off a respectable 90 special attack. It also has Rest to heal up, so after waking up (or using a Chesto Berry or Awakening), it can use Water Spout again.
  • Pelipper: Pretty Underrated too, with Protect to wall Slaking and to waste Flannery’s Overheat attacks. Keen Eye can actually be useful against Winona’s Skarmory that has Sand Attack, so none of its attacks will miss like Ice Beam or Shock Wave. It falls off sadly after Winona, but I say it’s pretty impressive for a Hoenn Water bird mon.
  • Sharpedo: An anti-setup good mon against Tate and Liza with Taunt denying the duo from setting up screens or Xatu using Confuse Ray, giving Sharpedo to strike back with Crunch (Swampert can attack with Surf but double battles weaken spread moves). Sharpedo does have to watch out for Claydol’s Earthquake. Not as useful as Swampert or the others, but I thought it would be interesting and funny to bring it up, considering the only offensive non-psychic moves they have are Claydol’s Earthquake, Solrock’s Flamethrower and Sunny Day.
Milotic is pretty good too, but I’m not counting it as from what I understand, catching and evolving a Feebas in Emerald could be pretty complicated for someone playing it casually on their first try.

Even though Swampert isn’t S-tier material, that’s not a knock against his strengths. Swampert is still great from the early to mid-game, and is still one of the best mons you can have in Pokémon Emerald.

You'll still be my favourite Water Starter, Swampert.
pokemon-swampert.gif

Well, I will give you the fact that saying Swampert is overhyped/not S-tier material in RSE is a very unpopular opinion, and some of your rationale is a bit confusing to follow if you want to elaborate there, because I'm not sure how you've come to some of these conclusions.

As much as I love using Swampert in a Pokémon Emerald playthrough, being that it’s my favourite water starter (if not my favourite starter), I will say that it can be overhyped, though I can definitely understand why. Water/Ground typing is an incredible typing as it grants immunity to Electric-type moves and Thunder Wave (gains 4x weakness to grass, but the only notable threat is Wally’s Roselia). This is useful against Wattson, a tough Electric-type Gym leader who can be challenging with Magneton’s and Manectric’s Thunder Waves. The only other ground type you can get is Geodude at Granite Cave, so a team without any ground types can be challenging. Marshtomp can be pretty good against Flannery (although she does have Sunny Day and Body Slam to slow down your stampede). As a bulky water type, Marshtomp can learn Ice Beam via TM to take down Winona’s Altaria, and when it evolves into Swampert, it uses its bulk to use super-effective moves against Tate and Liza, Maxie’s Camerupt and Drake’s Dragons. It also helps that Mudkip is considered to be the best of the three starters.
I would say the more important, unacknowledged aspect about Water/Ground is that it only has the one weakness to Grass, which makes it at worst neutrally useful in every other matchup, and also the combination of Surf/EQ is usually good for neutral offensive coverage aside from Grass. It seems like you are focusing on Swampert hitting super-effective more so than just being a very strong neutral STAB attacker.

Also Wattson is tough because he hits most mons hard neutrally with Shock Wave. Thunder Wave can be dealt with by Cheri Berry.

The problem arises when Swampert falls off after the mid-game, where its Ground sub-type makes it take neutral damage against Water and Ice moves. This can be noticeable when facing off against Juan, Glacia and Wallace, who are definitely more difficult with Wattson, with Juan’s Kingdra having good bulk and an excellent typing, Glacia’s Walrein being a fat tank, and all of Wallace’s mons being individually threatening that can hit Swampert neutrally. The ground typing isn’t that useful after Wattson, as the only trainers that have mons weak to Ground are Wally’s Magneton and Maxie’s Camerupt (which can really be taken down by any other water type). Swampert also can’t really do much against them except for Wallace’s Tentacruel. A strong Water-type in the later parts of the game would need to resist Water and Ice moves to be a great tank for the later parts of the game.
The Ground-type is actually very useful because you can press STAB Earthquakes to deal a large amount of damage to most enemies in neutral matchups when Water STAB doesn't cut it, and Swampert is better than this than the other Water mons who do not have Ground STAB and/or as high Attack. Even if it doesn't hit a weakness and have a textbox say "it's super effective" after your attack faints the enemy, Earthquake is still a very strong option coming from your best availability mon.

There are some water types that even if they are not necessarily better than Swampert, can also provide value as a good water type whilst also resisting Water and Ice:
  • Gyarados: starts out weak as a Magikarp, but it gets very good after evolving. It is a consistent counter to Torkoal, thanks to its high special defence that helps it take a sun-boosted Overheat easily, and its Dragon Rage will 3HKO Torkoal and won’t be hindered by the Sun. Gyarados has Intimidate for Slaking and can handle Winona like Marshtomp with Ice Beam but also Thunderbolt via TMs. After learning Dragon Dance at Level 50, it can sweep well with Return and Earthquake. Gyarados has always been great since it can learn Dragon Dance, making it a high bar to compare with other water mons.
  • Tentacruel: Also starts out too weak to take hits and to deal damage (good against Flannery, though it needs to watch out for Torkoal’s Body Slam). Once it evolves though it can have great returns. Its Poison Type can help to take down Wallace’s Ludicolo with a TM Sludge Bomb (unless the darn thing gets lucky with Double Team), and its Milotic thanks to its Toxic Immunity and great special defence. It’s also deceptively fast for a special tank. Clear Body can help it against Sidney’s Mightyena spamming Sand Attack or Drake’s Kingdra’s Smokescreen.
  • Walrein: Feel like it’s overlooked a lot. You get it in Shoal Cave, which is pretty late, but also has great returns. A fat tank that has Encore that forces opponents to lock themselves into a move indefinitely (in theory), has Rest to heal itself up (though you can use a Full Restore). Thick Fat, giving it a quadruple Ice Resistance, can be very useful against Juan’s Kingdra as well as some of Wallace’s mons like Milotic or Wailord, who only have Ice and Water coverage. It also doesn’t risk being frozen due to being an Ice type.

Gyarados doesn't resist Ice, and also you have pointed out that it sweeps with neutral non-STAB Return/Earthquake after saying Ground is not a useful attacking type after Wattson because it hits 2 mons super effectively. Also Magikarp grows slower in the Slow EXP Group and contributes less than Mudkip does on join, so if you're babying Magikarp to level 20 then imagine what Mudkip could do if you fed the equivalent 10,000 EXP to it instead and snowballed.

This last sentence also kind of applies to Tentacool though I feel like you are overvaluing Clear Body against random accuracy debuffs which the AI will stop using once Clear Body is revealed (also Mightyena has Intimidate which will proc it) but also undervaluing Clear Body as a way to prevent random debuff hax and setup freely.

Walrein is probably overlooked because you can't look at it until gym 7, but I think it's a respectable lategame addition. Though I have to point out that Thick Fat gives Walrein an 8x Ice resistance, and also even without Thick Fat I do not think those enemies would be pressing Ice moves on it instead of Water moves.

Honourable Mentions:
  • Wailord: May not be as bulky as Swampert or Walrein because of its low defences. However, it can hit hard, thanks to Water Spout coming off a respectable 90 special attack. It also has Rest to heal up, so after waking up (or using a Chesto Berry or Awakening), it can use Water Spout again.
  • Pelipper: Pretty Underrated too, with Protect to wall Slaking and to waste Flannery’s Overheat attacks. Keen Eye can actually be useful against Winona’s Skarmory that has Sand Attack, so none of its attacks will miss like Ice Beam or Shock Wave. It falls off sadly after Winona, but I say it’s pretty impressive for a Hoenn Water bird mon.
  • Sharpedo: An anti-setup good mon against Tate and Liza with Taunt denying the duo from setting up screens or Xatu using Confuse Ray, giving Sharpedo to strike back with Crunch (Swampert can attack with Surf but double battles weaken spread moves). Sharpedo does have to watch out for Claydol’s Earthquake. Not as useful as Swampert or the others, but I thought it would be interesting and funny to bring it up, considering the only offensive non-psychic moves they have are Claydol’s Earthquake, Solrock’s Flamethrower and Sunny Day.

Wailord is slow and will take hits that will make Water Spout weaker. Also if you're using Awakening midbattle then you may as well use Max Potion.

I think most people would agree Pelipper is a solid earlygame mon, though once again Keen Eye is basically good for blocking one potential turn before the AI stops trying the move. Also Shock Wave already has perfect accuracy regardless.

I don't really have anything to say about your Sharpedo use case, but I think it would be more interesting and funny to bring up Azumarill as a unique, Fast EXP grower, self-sufficient and early-joining/contributing/evolving/move-learning Water-type who hits really strong physically/neutrally even off-STAB, or a Thick Fat user who resists both Fire and Ice. Personally I think one of these is a more valuable role but I wanted to acknowledge both for the sake of it since Thick Fat and Ice resistance were brought up anyway.
 
Thanks for the clarifications regarding Thick Fat and Shock Wave's accuracy, I do want to clarify a few things:
The Ground-type is actually very useful because you can press STAB Earthquakes to deal a large amount of damage to most enemies in neutral matchups when Water STAB doesn't cut it, and Swampert is better than this than the other Water mons who do not have Ground STAB and/or as high Attack. Even if it doesn't hit a weakness and have a textbox say "it's super effective" after your attack faints the enemy, Earthquake is still a very strong option coming from your best availability mon.
I agree that Swampert's Earthquake can be solid considering its good attack and there are very few trainers with mons that resist or are immune to Earthquake. However, when I was earlier stating that Swampert isn't S Material, the mons that would be placed there to have a more consistent advantageous matchup against the opponents, not neutral matchups. Its ground typing does not provide a advantageous matchup in the lategame against trainers like Juan, Glacia or Wallace when considering it loses its Water and Ice Resistance.

Gyarados doesn't resist Ice, and also you have pointed out that it sweeps with neutral non-STAB Return/Earthquake after saying Ground is not a useful attacking type after Wattson because it hits 2 mons super effectively.
I should have clarified that when I mentioned Gyarados using Earthquake, I was referring specifically to sweeping Phoebe, where Return doesn’t work because their immunity to Normal Type moves. After Dragon Dance, Earthquake is simply the better option there. Outside of that matchup, Return is usually the main sweeping tool.
My point wasn’t that Gyarados is better overall, only that Swampert’s Ground typing stops being defensively helpful in the late‑game, while other Water types happen to line up better into Water/Ice‑heavy teams.
Whilst Gyarados doesn't resist Ice, but imo resisting Water is just as great and being able to be self sufficient with Dragon Dance can give it useful edge over Swampert.

Wailord is slow and will take hits that will make Water Spout weaker.
Wailord has a speed stat of 60 like Swampert is. Plus even if Wailord's Water Spout would be weakened due to not being in full health it can still use Surf.
Also Magikarp grows slower in the Slow EXP Group and contributes less than Mudkip does on join, so if you're babying Magikarp to level 20 then imagine what Mudkip could do if you fed the equivalent 10,000 EXP to it instead and snowballed.

Yes, Magikarp and Tentacool contribute less early on, and that’s exactly why I emphasized Swampert’s strength in the early‑mid game. Mudkip’s immediate usefulness is a big part of why it’s such a strong starter. I didnt state that Gyarados, Tentacruel, or Walrein outperform Swampert overall — only that they offer more favorable late‑game matchups due to their typings, especially against Juan, Glacia, and Wallace.
Swampert is still one of the best pokemon to have in Emerald, it's that is relative advantage of having an Electric immunity is neutralised after the mid-game where you would have to face Water and Ice attacks from Juan, Glacia or Wallace.

I will mention that if grinding is a concern, you can use the exp share you get from Mr Stone after delivering the letter to Steven or leave them at the Day Care Center, so I believe training them can be manageable and the investment would not be tedious.

There is one pokemon that the player can get before taking on Juan, Staryu which can evolve into Starmie. It's also a late game mon and is frailer compared to the other entries but it makes it up by learning Thunderbolt to take care of the late water types, Recover (though it needs a heart scale to learn it), hits harder than most unboosted because of its good special attack and is very fast.
 
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In general, I think the universal advantage every single Water starter has over other Water-types without fail and without exception is the combination of being available early and being consistently good and reliable the whole way through. It's especially true with them because the games tend to offer solid albeit lesser alternatives to Grass and Fire fairly early on, so not choosing the Grass or Fire starter isn't always a dealbreaker, but Water starters always, and I mean always, have a very noticeable edge in availability and consistency, even if others may be technically better than them in the late game. Early and good alternatives to them are always hard to find, from my consistent experience in playing multiple Pokémon games over the years, as just about every non-starter alternative to a Water-type either takes more effort and struggle to reach the good final form, is only available late, and thus won't be of use in earlier portions of the game, or is just not very good at all (this case because there are a few Water-types who clearly aren't meant to be used, just fought as common Surf/fishing enemy spawns).

Water starters usually have the rather intricate combo of being available early, having a good EXP group and leveling rate (Medium Slow), and having a solid evolutionary progression. Funnily enough, three-stage Water-types outside of the starters are actually really rare, much less those in the Medium Slow EXP Group. This has been the case since Kanto, since from what I've played of that retroactively, the game is nice enough to offer usable alternatives to Bulbasaur and Charmander fairly early on, but good Water-types are much harder to find: Magikarp is the only one, and it takes a lot of investment to get it to become a Gyarados, meanwhile things like Vaporeon, Lapras, Starmie, and Cloyster won't even be catchable until mid-late to late game. This remains true in nearly every game that follows. The good non-starter ones tend to be in the Slow EXP Group as well, even if they don't evolve at a high evolution level.

Even though I think among the nine, Swampert and Primarina are the strongest in a vacuum because of their strong combination of stats and typing with their movepools which help them a lot in their respective games, the Water starters have a unique combination of traits that's really hard to find among the type outside of them despite how common the type is, and that gives them an edge in terms of their attractiveness in playthroughs. They're not always the most flashy to use, but they're reliable, and all nine of them are that moreso than 90% of the type's roster. Swampert itself is really reliable because of how good its type combo is, which I think makes it very consistent, not just compared to other Water-types (who may do better than Swampert late-game but are a bigger investment), but also compared to the other two Hoenn starters, since Sceptile mostly shines late-game but struggles early on while Blaziken has a much rougher late game despite the Torchic line having a good early and mid-game performance, mostly because late-game Hoenn is really mean to it.
 
Water mons in general occupy a very odd availability niche. You have the starter, which has excellent BST/movepool/growth rate as a rule. You get access to Magikarp extremely early, which turns into the broken Gyarados in most games, but is varying levels of annoying to get there. Other than that, there's usually a couple weird weak mons available early. And, crucially, you are required to pick up one of those mons because at some point, the game with give you a 90 BP Water move and tell you you have to add it to your team. AFTER you do so, the game throws a couple thousand water-type encounters at you for the next few hours, generally including every water-type in the game. The timeline of that is just messy.
 
I wish the Old Rod wasn’t just a Magikarp (and sometimes Tentacool and Krabby) spawning item; having access to more water types through the rods could have really helped with the balancing of Water types availability.
Instead you get the Old Rod at gym 2 and the Good Rod after getting surf.

Except for Sinnoh, which is the only one to give the Good Rod a few hours before getting the ability to use Surf. But Sinnoh has its own problems when it comes to Mon availability anyway so...
 
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