Announcement SV National Dex UU Stage 8.5: Toxic

[Danbear02]

The council has decided to suspect Pecharunt!

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Yet another powerful Poison Type is on the chopping block with Pecharunt being suspected following NDCL! Pecharunt is a powerful defensive and offensive option for most teams, opting for Ghostium-Z alongside Nasty Plot on most sets, but being able to use utility options like Parting Shot or Foul Play to perform as a fantastic pivot and check to nearly every Physical attacker in the tier, even against Mons it has no business checking like Aegislash. These traits give Pecharunt many opportunities to switch in, which is very problematic given that it can make quite an impact each time it is able to launch an attack. This mix of defensive utility and offensive power have led us to suspect Pecharunt first over other problematic offensive threats like Mega Gardevoir, Bisharp, or Aegislash which lack the same defensive utility that Pecharunt has. Now, to get to the arguments

While Okidogi being gone makes it much easier to slot options like Garganacl and Blissey that can be adept at handling Pecharunt, Pecharunt’s combination of typing and stats can allow it to bypass a lot of typical counterplay for set-up sweepers. The main issue with Pecharunt is its stats; with a huge base defense and respectable stats elsewhere, Pecharunt’s customizability means that counterplay can often differ wildly, even for the most common Nasty Plot + Ghostium Z set. Pecharunt can run near max Physical defense to ensure it takes nothing even from super-effective hits like Mega Aerodactyl’s Earthquake. Speedy Pecharunt sets can outpace Adamant or Jolly Bisharp and Rillaboom to enable it to remove them with boosted attacks before they can retaliate. Pecharunt can even run Special Attack EVs to ensure KOs on Pokemon like the aforementioned Bisharp with Never-Ending Nightmare.

Speaking of Pecharunt’s Z move, this is where most of its threat comes from. Very few Pokemon are able to withstand a boosted Z move from Pecharunt; the list contains Blissey, Hydreigon, Tyranitar, Bisharp, and Garganacl. The issue with these switch-ins, however, is two-fold. Blissey and Garganacl are often unable to immediately threaten Pecharunt, with Blissey being forced to Teleport to a different check and Garganacl allowing Pecharunt to quite easily set up to +6. Hydreigon, Tyranitar, and Bisharp on the other hand absolutely hate switching into Pecharunt; in the case of the former two, Pecharunt’s other STAB move Malignant Chain could apply Poison and Confusion, making them unreliable answers. In the case of Bisharp, Pecharunt is able to OHKO Bisharp with +2 Never-Ending Nightmare after a bit of chip, or cleanly OHKO Bisharp at +4, while Bisharp does around 50% back with Knock Off, meaning you must be completely accurate with your Sucker Punch to ensure Pecharunt is at a low enough HP to be picked off afterwards. And given Pecharunt’s ability to switch into nearly every Physical attacker in the tier, it is quite important for your check to be able to reliably handle Pecharunt, as it can find many opportunities to switch in and heal back up after trading with its check.

However, Pecharunt does have some notable weaknesses. Pecharunt’s only real threatening set is Bulky Ghostium Z + Nasty Plot; each other set is either too frail or is not threatening. Given that other sets are not threatening, by extension a Pecharunt that is unboosted is often unthreatening; Celesteela is a fairly reliable check if Pecharunt does not find opportunities to grab a Nasty Plot, which can be challenging if it is constantly forced to Recover after switching into Physical attackers like Buzzwole and Mega Aerodactyl and eating Earthquakes that chunk it for about 1/3 HP. This is especially true given that Pecharunt cannot hold Heavy-Duty Boots if it wants to maintain its threat level, leaving it quickly worn down by entry hazards. Additionally, Pecharunt can struggle against teams that focus primarily on Special attackers, given it has lackluster special bulk and a typing that does not leave it with many significant resistances against the tier’s most common special attackers. These factors often leave many teams able to play around Pecharunt with a variety of “soft checks” that can pressure Pecharunt, alongside one harder check like Blacephalon, Special Attacking Victini, or Mega Gardevoir that cannot switch directly into Pecharunt but can find opportunities to force it out if needed.

Despite these flaws, Pecharunt is still an overwhelmingly difficult defensive Mon to check, primarily limiting Balance and Fat teams in their ability to check other problematic options like Mega Gardevoir. For this reason, Pecharunt is being tested over the aforementioned Mega Gardevoir given that its defensive utility lends itself to being used on more teams.


Suspect Test Information

The instructions to participate in this test are as follows:

• Create a new account OR use an existing one with no National Dex UU games played (resetting W/L does not count for this - the account you use must never have played National Dex UU before the test, ever.) You do not have to follow any specific naming rule but your suspect account must have never played a game in National Dex UU before this suspect test went up or you will not receive valid requirements.​
• At any point on your new account, use the command /linksmogon on Pokemon Showdown! You will receive instructions on what to do once you run this command.​
• After you linked your account, if you play one game with the alt, you have to play at least one game in order to verify and then do /rank in order to see the "Suspect Test eligible" message​
• Example

  View attachment 686604
  
  [*]If this field says "No" then you have either not set up the account correctly or need to use a different/new account. You do not need to complete your entire reqs for this field to say "Yes"
• After you believe that you have achieved reqs, double check that you're listed as a voter here! If you aren't listed as a voter despite having valid reqs, please contact Danbear02, Niadev, or any staff member.​
• If you have any questions about this new process, feel free to PM me or post here!​
• Laddering with an account that impersonates, mocks, or insults another Smogon user or breaks Pokemon Showdown! rules may be disqualified from voting and infracted.​
• We will be using the regular National Dex UU ladder for this suspect test, and Pecharunt will remain legal throughout the entire suspect test.​
• Any form of voting manipulation will result in swift and severe punishment. You are more than welcome to state your argument to as many people as you so please, but do not use any kind of underhanded tactics to get a result you desire. Bribery, blackmail, or any other type of tactic used to sway votes will be handled and sanctioned.​
• Do not attempt to cheat the ladder. We will know if you did not actually achieve voting requisites, so don't do it. Harsh sanctions will be applied.​
• The requirement to vote in this suspect test is a COIL value of 2900 with a B-Value of 3.​
• ​
  estimated games required

  75​	62​
  76​	45​
  77​	35​
  78​	30​
  79​	25​
  80​	22​
  81​	18​
  82​	16​

  
  

  
  
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The suspect test will last until March 23rd 11:59 PM GMT -8.

For those of you wondering about the Suspect Tours, due to limited interest and player quantity, we will not be continuing with these Tours.​

 

[MTB'er Ben]

I'm the fence with pech being broken or not. I place more emphasis on its ability and signature move as being the inciting reason for its indictment into suspect testing, however its stats and typing really do wrap into one nice package. The coin flip of landing an effective Malignant Chain's toxic and confusion status 50% of the time are probably what set it just over the edge for most players. And case in point, half the time the move doesnt proc, and then other times it opens the game up to clutch the win. Ive been both on receiving end of its bullshit, and then as a user, walled dastardly by a few pink blobs here and there with their wish support/SpD investment. Im going to make a run this week for more testing to see if my opinion gets swayed, but right now I lean Do Not Ban.

 

[Bobsican]

I think it seems worthwhile to talk about statistics when it comes to Malignant Chain, more specifically, it's not unheard of that with a large sample pool of tries, the overall odds for something to happen increase, so instead of just expecting a constant 50% chance of Malignant Chain poisoning or not, this seems worth bringing up:

Tries	Cumulative Probability
1	50%
2	75%
3	87.5%
4	93.75%
5	96.875%
6	98.437%
7	99.219%
8	99.61%

As we can see here, it's quite fair to expect that the move will eventually badly poison something, especially as Pecharunt's longevity and bulk does mean that it can use Malignant Chain multiple times across a match. That said, let's explore the main forms of counterplay:


Eviolite variants of Bisharp are the best Pecharunt answer the tier has to offer, resisting both of its STABs while also having great bulk and the capability to threaten it out with Dark STAB or even Pursuit, even discouraging Pecharunt from using Parting Shot as then it'll just most likely enable a sweep for Bisharp otherwise, however, it's not a hard counter as it can still get worn down given its lack of reliable recovery, so clever players can just keep Pecharunt for the late-game once Bisharp is in KO range for Pecharunt or has otherwise fainted already.


Specially defensive Steel-types (namely Celesteela and Hisuian Goodra) can come into Malignant Chain with no issue and wear down Pecharunt, but at the same time these Pokemon have longevity issues and can get worn down by its Ghost STAB or get pivoted on with Parting Shot for an ally to flip the momentum over them. Offensive Pecharunt variants can also try using them as setup fodder once worn down.


These Pokemon don't care about Malignant Chain because of their abilities, thus enabling them to easily pressure Pecharunt and the rest of its team, but at the same time Garganacl is rather niche and difficult to fit on a team (especially in lack of Tera), while Ursaluna has even more longevity issues than other answers by being a burn-reliant wallbreaker, thus limiting it to an aggressive answer that'd demand ending the game ASAP.


Bulky Poison-types and the pink blobs can easily PP stall Malignant Chain as to eventually enable an ally to more comfortably answer Pecharunt without having to worry about Malignant Chain hindering them for the rest of the game, but these are rendered unreliable answers the moment Pecharunt reveals Nasty Plot, as then it can overwhelm them.

While Chansey can wall even a +6 Pecharunt, the confusion + badly poisoning (which is statistically something to expect as explained before) forces it into unhealthy mind games as to heal its status by switching out (if it wastes a turn by confusion over healing it just loses the game), namely as there's nothing else that can "reliably" take on a +6 Pecharunt as well.



These are more on-paper answers as while they can switch into Pecharunt multiple times, they all dislike being badly poisoned, and the former 2 (Tyranitar and Swampert) also have longevity issues (namely lack of reliable HP recovery options) on top and thus can quickly get worn down regardless of Malignant Chain triggering or not.



While the amount of offensive answers is much more varied, especially as Pecharunt is rather slow and almost trivial to outspeed by offensive breakers, none of these can comfortably switch into it, and thus are often limited as revenge killers unless they're complemented by Teleport Blissey or Flip Turn Swampert.


Tapu Fini can prevent status altogether with Misty Terrain, but it's forced out by Pecharunt, thus not being an ideal form of counterplay as it'd demand a proper answer on top to actually check it.

From here, it's quite evident that outside dedicated answers (most of which can easily get worn down), Pecharunt presents a concern for the metagame by its capability to cheese past a good portion of its answers with status while attacking, not too unlike Okidogi, so I'd advocate for a ban.