(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

This has almost definitely been said before, but me and a friend were discussing it and I felt it'd be worth bringing up.

Unova's evolve times are really late. Like, notably so. They feel really arbitrary and all over the place, without much rhyme or reason.

Like, can someone explain why Klingklang is available at level 49? That's later than Haxorus for christ's sake, for a fairly weak mon. Meanwhile, you can go ham with a Zoroark from level 30 onwards.

Mandibuzz and Braviary are at level 54. Sure it's not terribly far off from when you get their pre-evos, but its still so pointless to have. Excadrill can just pop off at 31, with oftentimes similar level investment (i.e. not much).

It goes on. Ferrothorn? 40, not great in game. Beeheeyem? 42 for a slow ahh Psychic. Amoonguss? 39, when you can just catch it later as-is and when it sucks in game. But don't worry, Reuniclus is 41 with the useful Duosion at 32. Cinccino is shiny stone'd and you get to tail slap a ton of the game. Krookodile? 40, after a level 29 Krokorok.

The most egregious to me is Eelektrik being at level 39. Not a good mid-evo, not the final evo. A middling mid-evo, at level 39, from one of the rarest and most notoriously weak Pokemon in the game. And in BW1 you can't even catch Eelektrik as-is. You have to find and evolve Tynamo? WHY?

Hoenn has this issue too to a lesser extent, mostly because it has useful enough mid-evos and because it feels more, idk, natural to me? Like there's a clearer idea that better mons evolve later, etc. with some exceptions. But Unova just feels nonsensical, and lowkey a joke that GF pulled on us.

This has been discussed before in another thread - https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...y-levels-of-each-generations-pokemon.3676292/ - and it seems the only trend is when the mon is obtained. This evo level spread doesn't really factor in how much work it actually takes to evolve the mon, if there's a good mid-evo or not, or how useful the final evo actually is, unlike a lot of the other regions. I really wish Unova factored that in more.
 
I think it was to make sure you always use each pokemon in the line during the game even if they're late in the game. Which I can understand, but they really should have lowered a lot of them in later gens because random weak first stages evolving 10 levels after most pokemon in other gens is ridiculous.
 
This has almost definitely been said before, but me and a friend were discussing it and I felt it'd be worth bringing up.

Unova's evolve times are really late. Like, notably so. They feel really arbitrary and all over the place, without much rhyme or reason.

Like, can someone explain why Klingklang is available at level 49? That's later than Haxorus for christ's sake, for a fairly weak mon. Meanwhile, you can go ham with a Zoroark from level 30 onwards.

Mandibuzz and Braviary are at level 54. Sure it's not terribly far off from when you get their pre-evos, but its still so pointless to have. Excadrill can just pop off at 31, with oftentimes similar level investment (i.e. not much).

It goes on. Ferrothorn? 40, not great in game. Beeheeyem? 42 for a slow ahh Psychic. Amoonguss? 39, when you can just catch it later as-is and when it sucks in game. But don't worry, Reuniclus is 41 with the useful Duosion at 32. Cinccino is shiny stone'd and you get to tail slap a ton of the game. Krookodile? 40, after a level 29 Krokorok.

The most egregious to me is Eelektrik being at level 39. Not a good mid-evo, not the final evo. A middling mid-evo, at level 39, from one of the rarest and most notoriously weak Pokemon in the game. And in BW1 you can't even catch Eelektrik as-is. You have to find and evolve Tynamo? WHY?

Hoenn has this issue too to a lesser extent, mostly because it has useful enough mid-evos and because it feels more, idk, natural to me? Like there's a clearer idea that better mons evolve later, etc. with some exceptions. But Unova just feels nonsensical, and lowkey a joke that GF pulled on us.

This has been discussed before in another thread - https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...y-levels-of-each-generations-pokemon.3676292/ - and it seems the only trend is when the mon is obtained. This evo level spread doesn't really factor in how much work it actually takes to evolve the mon, if there's a good mid-evo or not, or how useful the final evo actually is, unlike a lot of the other regions. I really wish Unova factored that in more.
the thing that really gets me the most is often even the three stage lines have the first stage just be way too weak for how long you're expected to carry them around even relative to where you encounter them. Rufflet is caught on the penultimate route why on earth is it 350 BST.

Ponyta isn't fantastic and no one is especially thrilled at its level 40 evolution level but you know what it does have? 410 BST. More than servicable. Yes this is likely because Puchicorn was cut later in development and Ponyta was originally a middle stage, but it happened and the result is being faster, stronger, bulkier than Rufflet basically across the board. You can do a lot with those extra 60. You can carry Ponyta through the game and its like, fine. You wish it was better but honestly that's more on movepool.
And I say this as someone who dragged Vullaby through Black 2 as an egg and had it perform "okay, i guess"; it's just way too long
 
didn't they add in Mandibuzz and Braviary as route 4 special encounters?

Mandibuzz level 25 on Thursdays in Black 2 and Braviary level 25 on Mondays in White 2
They did, which makes me think I was either
1. confusing it with Black 1
2. confusing it with White 2 and I used the Braviary you get alongside it

I think the former is more likely but I'd need to pull out my games again to check
 
Jacinthe's official art. Why tf is her skin so washed out?
Oh wow you know I forgot just how dark she is in game. I remember seeing her official art and just being impressed she was still so dark but its quite the degree huh?
If I'm charitable it also seems like her outfit & hair aren't as vibrant either so could just be an engine thing, since this is likely how she always looked in concept art. Like how a lot of Splatoon artwork is more washed out in general leading to Marina not being as dark as her in-game model but everyone isn't as dark (contrast with the horrible sanrio marina plush where that girl is just white now). Her full art in the TCG is darker and more vibrant over all probably to play into the holofoil effect while her SIR is more washed out because of all the gold lighting around her.

You see it with Canari too. Her skin is lighter in the artwork...but also so is everything else. Her yellows are brighter, her blues are brighter, even the black part of her outfit is brighter (interestingly, all her TCG cards veer closer to her in-game coloring though).



It's kind of interesting now that I'm really looking through all these...even putting aside possible biases from different members of the art team, I never noticed how much darker Z-A's game is. Even white boys like Ivor seem generally darker in game.
I decided to look at a few characters in SV and it's kind of the opposite situation. SV's lighting engine washes everything out more, so everyone's more faded. Nemona's not a very dark skinned character but her artwork/anime is consistently a noticeable tan-brown color meanwhile in some spots like the Mesagoza lighting girl looks nearly white.
 
You see it with Canari too. Her skin is lighter in the artwork...but also so is everything else. Her yellows are brighter, her blues are brighter, even the black part of her outfit is brighter (interestingly, all her TCG cards veer closer to her in-game coloring though).
Speaking of Canari why tf does she have green hair on her official art? It may be a very washed out yellow in game but as long as its not in the shadow its still yellow.
 
Honestly the levels so many Unova mons evolve at is like half the reason I just play rom hacks because so many Mons just aren’t good enough to lug around unevolved until the final boss.
I wish Gamefreak would just go back to those Mons and just drop their evolving level by like, 10 so that they’re fully evolved around Gyms 6/7.

Tbh, I quite like ZAs darker, more saturated colouring vs SVs paler colors, and I’m glad WIWA is leaning more towards the former than the latter. Pokémons design leans so much better into more brighter saturated colours on its characters and Mons. You put SV next to anything and it’s so washed out.
 
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Continuing on with the Festival Plaza gripe, Sophocles gave me the worst starting loadout of shops I have ever seen in Ultra Moon:
- Two dye houses
- Two fortune tents
- A General Store goody shop
- Treasure Hunt lotto

Zero food stalls, zero bouncy castles, zero haunted houses (which along with Pharmacy are the only ones that are actually good in playthroughs). And then his first three shops that he offered me through level-ups were a Ball Shop, a better Dye Tent, and the Gold Rush lotto stall. Bleh.

At least in B2W2's Join Avenue you got to choose which shops you could open by talking to people. Heck, all I'd love to see would be the game guaranteeing your starting loadout will be one of each of the categories (excluding the Switcheroo).
 
Tbh, I quite like ZAs darker, more saturated colouring vs SVs paler colors, and I’m glad WIWA is leaning more towards the former than the latter. Pokémons design leans so much better into more brighter saturated colours on its characters and Mons. You put SV next to anything and it’s so washed out.
agreed, imo it's one of the reasons I dislike SV's presentation. I get not having cutting edge graphics but the whole graphical direction felt super off to me. SV felt too pale and subdued to me, and without much distinct style that even SwSh had.
 
agreed, imo it's one of the reasons I dislike SV's presentation. I get not having cutting edge graphics but the whole graphical direction felt super off to me. SV felt too pale and subdued to me, and without much distinct style that even SwSh had.
My go to example for this is Iono and Canari, like it really shows just how washed out SV are compared to the rest of the series.
Granted, it’s probably because it got all of 2 years development time because COVID, but damn

IMG_2412.webp
 
Ironically we have a good example of a game on Switch that has more subdued colors than its predecessor but is still better looking in Smash Ultimate.

This is Lucario in SSB4:
1774224649806.png


This is Lucatio in Ultimate:
1774224629195.png


I vastly prefer the look of Ultimate, it feels more detailed and I think the subdued colors are a little less... overbearing on the design, yet still bright and pop out enough. It has quite a bit of soul, imo more than SSB4. (I'm using a Pokemon example so the mods don't have my head, tho imo the best examples are in other, more detailed characters. Bowser and Lucina to me are better examples)

I really wish Pokemon had followed that same path, even with its lesser budget & dev time I don't think there's much of an excuse for just how bad SV looks. It feels soulless and like there was genuinely no love in its design. Even SwSh, hell even Gen 7 (my least favorite gen by far) had more personality.
 
This has almost definitely been said before, but me and a friend were discussing it and I felt it'd be worth bringing up.

Unova's evolve times are really late. Like, notably so. They feel really arbitrary and all over the place, without much rhyme or reason.

Like, can someone explain why Klingklang is available at level 49? That's later than Haxorus for christ's sake, for a fairly weak mon. Meanwhile, you can go ham with a Zoroark from level 30 onwards.

Mandibuzz and Braviary are at level 54. Sure it's not terribly far off from when you get their pre-evos, but its still so pointless to have. Excadrill can just pop off at 31, with oftentimes similar level investment (i.e. not much).

It goes on. Ferrothorn? 40, not great in game. Beeheeyem? 42 for a slow ahh Psychic. Amoonguss? 39, when you can just catch it later as-is and when it sucks in game. But don't worry, Reuniclus is 41 with the useful Duosion at 32. Cinccino is shiny stone'd and you get to tail slap a ton of the game. Krookodile? 40, after a level 29 Krokorok.

The most egregious to me is Eelektrik being at level 39. Not a good mid-evo, not the final evo. A middling mid-evo, at level 39, from one of the rarest and most notoriously weak Pokemon in the game. And in BW1 you can't even catch Eelektrik as-is. You have to find and evolve Tynamo? WHY?

Hoenn has this issue too to a lesser extent, mostly because it has useful enough mid-evos and because it feels more, idk, natural to me? Like there's a clearer idea that better mons evolve later, etc. with some exceptions. But Unova just feels nonsensical, and lowkey a joke that GF pulled on us.

This has been discussed before in another thread - https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...y-levels-of-each-generations-pokemon.3676292/ - and it seems the only trend is when the mon is obtained. This evo level spread doesn't really factor in how much work it actually takes to evolve the mon, if there's a good mid-evo or not, or how useful the final evo actually is, unlike a lot of the other regions. I really wish Unova factored that in more.
That's very easy to answer.

Game Freak designed BW1 like RBY in many aspects. A big one was having it work more like a standalone, single-player RPG...

15 years after Pokémania, and while knowing that online is not only a big factor in those games, but also knowing that these mons would be appearing in future games outside of their original scope.

And then they had the brilliant idea of not retconning those evolution levels and it just makes them look like complete fucking buffoons when they added Rufflet to Route 2 in Alola.

It's the exact same principle they applied to pokémon like Grimer, Slowpoke and Noibat.

Grimer evolves at Lv. 38 because you find the dang thing in Pokémon Mansion at Lv. 30! So you get to use it for a good amount of time trying to grind it up to the level of your team for whatever godforsaken reason, and then by the time you face Blaine, it's a Muk and you actually get a payoff for your efforts.

But what happens when you don't find Grimer at Lv. 30. What happens if it's available at Lv... 8~ish?

Well, something better than Noibat's case, that's for sure.

They keep pigeonholing themselves into stupid situations like this, but Unova was RAMPANT with it. And then it turns out that they made a ridiculous amount of mons that are borderline unplayable! Either they're always late, or they're an absolute chore to carry for entire games, or they just do some silly tomfoolery like they did in BW2 and give people an underleveled wild evolved form as an apology.

Sane people would have cut Rufflet's evolution level by at least 20 levels, but for some reason that is truly inexplicable, Game Freak didn't!

They literally designed BW1 discarding 15 years of experience crafting those games.
 
This has almost definitely been said before, but me and a friend were discussing it and I felt it'd be worth bringing up.

Unova's evolve times are really late. Like, notably so. They feel really arbitrary and all over the place, without much rhyme or reason.

Like, can someone explain why Klingklang is available at level 49? That's later than Haxorus for christ's sake, for a fairly weak mon. Meanwhile, you can go ham with a Zoroark from level 30 onwards.

Mandibuzz and Braviary are at level 54. Sure it's not terribly far off from when you get their pre-evos, but its still so pointless to have. Excadrill can just pop off at 31, with oftentimes similar level investment (i.e. not much).

It goes on. Ferrothorn? 40, not great in game. Beeheeyem? 42 for a slow ahh Psychic. Amoonguss? 39, when you can just catch it later as-is and when it sucks in game. But don't worry, Reuniclus is 41 with the useful Duosion at 32. Cinccino is shiny stone'd and you get to tail slap a ton of the game. Krookodile? 40, after a level 29 Krokorok.

The most egregious to me is Eelektrik being at level 39. Not a good mid-evo, not the final evo. A middling mid-evo, at level 39, from one of the rarest and most notoriously weak Pokemon in the game. And in BW1 you can't even catch Eelektrik as-is. You have to find and evolve Tynamo? WHY?

Hoenn has this issue too to a lesser extent, mostly because it has useful enough mid-evos and because it feels more, idk, natural to me? Like there's a clearer idea that better mons evolve later, etc. with some exceptions. But Unova just feels nonsensical, and lowkey a joke that GF pulled on us.

This has been discussed before in another thread - https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...y-levels-of-each-generations-pokemon.3676292/ - and it seems the only trend is when the mon is obtained. This evo level spread doesn't really factor in how much work it actually takes to evolve the mon, if there's a good mid-evo or not, or how useful the final evo actually is, unlike a lot of the other regions. I really wish Unova factored that in more.

I think one key factor in the context of BW is the addition of the Eviolite. Yeah you have to wait until 49 for Vanilluxe, but throwing an Eviolite on it allows Vanillish to be a bit sturdier than it would be otherwise.

Similarly, BW are also the first games to just straight-up give you a Lucky Egg after Badge 5, and that in conjunction with Audino hunting can really help to put a dent into any mid-game Pokémon’s Exp. needs.

And there’s the post-game section (which has its own balancing issues, to be fair; everything jumps to 62-65, no ifs, ands, or buts) which means you could still be using your Pokémon for a good while after the main game.

That said, I think Volt-Ikazuchi is right about it being ridiculous that they don’t modify these levels in later games. In their native context I think they mostly work, sure, but that’s because they’re specifically tailored to that context. Take them out of it without adjustment, and it just falls apart.
 
I think one key factor in the context of BW is the addition of the Eviolite. Yeah you have to wait until 49 for Vanilluxe, but throwing an Eviolite on it allows Vanillish to be a bit sturdier than it would be otherwise.

Similarly, BW are also the first games to just straight-up give you a Lucky Egg after Badge 5, and that in conjunction with Audino hunting can really help to put a dent into any mid-game Pokémon’s Exp. needs.

And there’s the post-game section (which has its own balancing issues, to be fair; everything jumps to 62-65, no ifs, ands, or buts) which means you could still be using your Pokémon for a good while after the main game.

That said, I think Volt-Ikazuchi is right about it being ridiculous that they don’t modify these levels in later games. In their native context I think they mostly work, sure, but that’s because they’re specifically tailored to that context. Take them out of it without adjustment, and it just falls apart.

1000001816.jpg

1000001814.jpg


Cases in point, I would say
 
That's very easy to answer.

Game Freak designed BW1 like RBY in many aspects. A big one was having it work more like a standalone, single-player RPG...

15 years after Pokémania, and while knowing that online is not only a big factor in those games, but also knowing that these mons would be appearing in future games outside of their original scope.

And then they had the brilliant idea of not retconning those evolution levels and it just makes them look like complete fucking buffoons when they added Rufflet to Route 2 in Alola.

It's the exact same principle they applied to pokémon like Grimer, Slowpoke and Noibat.

Grimer evolves at Lv. 38 because you find the dang thing in Pokémon Mansion at Lv. 30! So you get to use it for a good amount of time trying to grind it up to the level of your team for whatever godforsaken reason, and then by the time you face Blaine, it's a Muk and you actually get a payoff for your efforts.

But what happens when you don't find Grimer at Lv. 30. What happens if it's available at Lv... 8~ish?

Well, something better than Noibat's case, that's for sure.

They keep pigeonholing themselves into stupid situations like this, but Unova was RAMPANT with it. And then it turns out that they made a ridiculous amount of mons that are borderline unplayable! Either they're always late, or they're an absolute chore to carry for entire games, or they just do some silly tomfoolery like they did in BW2 and give people an underleveled wild evolved form as an apology.

Sane people would have cut Rufflet's evolution level by at least 20 levels, but for some reason that is truly inexplicable, Game Freak didn't!

They literally designed BW1 discarding 15 years of experience crafting those games.
Thing is that while gets across
Ponyta or Grimer evolving at 40 or 38 is one thing, depending on the level you get it, it's not THAT far away. Ponyta can be found in the upper 20s but you can also find it in the mid 30s and Grimer's only 8 like you say. Annoying, but workable (there's even Wild Muk if you're REALLY lucky). You'll definitely have them evolved by the E4. And there's definitely a bunch of mons where you can see that same philosophy throughout the series much less this game and honestly I think a fair number of Unovan evolution levels, while high, fall into the "reasonable for the mon and the time you get with them" threshold still. Can definitely tweak them lower but I did manage to get Vanilluxe by end game so something went at least a little right here (& Vanillish is totally usable on its own) and anyone using a Vanillite in idk SWSH will probably be fine.

But then you pass a different threshold and now you get Rufflet at level 34 or 36. +18/20 levels to evolve a fresh caught end game mon is insane. Even if you opt to get it in Victory Road instead it'll still only be level 40.
Gen 1's worst situation (giving a pass to Dratini for design reasons) like this is probably Rhyhorn, which you get at ~20-25 in the Safari Zone and won't evolve until 42. & even then if you REALLY dedicated yourself to Rhydon, you'll still have it by E4.

So gen 5 wound up having a bunch of rhyhorns (both in power level of the base mon AND how long you have to drag it around) at a time where they should be ponytas.

I think one key factor in the context of BW is the addition of the Eviolite. Yeah you have to wait until 49 for Vanilluxe, but throwing an Eviolite on it allows Vanillish to be a bit sturdier than it would be otherwise.

Similarly, BW are also the first games to just straight-up give you a Lucky Egg after Badge 5, and that in conjunction with Audino hunting can really help to put a dent into any mid-game Pokémon’s Exp. needs.

And there’s the post-game section (which has its own balancing issues, to be fair; everything jumps to 62-65, no ifs, ands, or buts) which means you could still be using your Pokémon for a good while after the main game.

That said, I think Volt-Ikazuchi is right about it being ridiculous that they don’t modify these levels in later games. In their native context I think they mostly work, sure, but that’s because they’re specifically tailored to that context. Take them out of it without adjustment, and it just falls apart.
Eviolite is also only one-of and being a little sturdier can only carry so far

I also do not like the idea of the post-game offsetting the levels because it will still take time being unevolved at a time where all your other options ARE evolved and after you've carried through what's meant to be the final boss gauntlet you are up against like Bug Catchers with level 65 weedles.

If the idea is they really were tailored to these contexts then they kind of failed from the jump.
 
Friendly reminder that IVs suck ass.

My Typhlosion in Colosseum failed to OHKO a like level Spinarak with STAB Flame Wheel due to what I can only assume were bad IVs.
I was so curious about this I pulled out the damage calculator
Assuming equal level (I put them at 36), 0 IV 0 EV neutral nature vs 31 IV 0 IV +SpD Spinarak it should be a consistent OHKO

So did you roll a 0IV Typhlosion with a -SpA nature and also give it no EVs. And also did the enemy Spinarak have 31 IVs & a sp def nature
 
So did you roll a 0IV Typhlosion with a -SpA nature and also give it no EVs. And also did the enemy Spinarak have 31 IVs & a sp def nature
Mine's Naive and was even holding Charcoal. No idea what EVs it has tbh and can't check right now. I don't know how Colosseum handles handing out stats, but it was Kloak's Level 39 Spinarak in the Under if that helps. Might have been Typholsion was at 37, but still.
 
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my take on levels is that id rather main campaigns just go further in the level bracket than lowering evo levels (9f course thatd be a much larger change so ofc for current models their levels should be adjusted). in fact id push most level ups a bit higher, and have the campaign end up around lv 70s with post game covering 80s up to 90 and then the lv 100 being the final personal push with whatever grinding facilities there are around. I think a wider level expression in the main game would be really fun and also just solve many late level up problems lol
 
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