Just wanted to chime in and say that there are other Knock Off users that don't care about burns, like Gliscor (if it's poisoned), Darkrai, and Walking Wake (who is actually a really good Moltres switch-in IMO). That being said, I do really like Moltres and prefer using it over Zapdos, as it has a much better matchup against Great Tusk and Iron Valiant. I also feel that burns are a lot more useful against Pokemon like Dragonite and Kingambit than paralysis.
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Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread - (update on post #1193))
- Thread starter Shaymin Sky
- Start date
I'm going to make a nomination to a mon that i think is very underrated right now
B → B+
The washing machine is not washed and i think it has a very interesting but unexplored niche in the meta, being a really good check to the plethora of bulky Ground types (
) while also being one of the most consistent checks to 
thanks to Wisp and being less of Encore fodder than pokemon like 
and 
. It is also really good into 
that has been gaining popularity these days, and it dominates the sand core of 
and 
, alongside with important defensive pieces like 
and . Overall is a very good soft check to many things like , 
, 
and 
for bulky offense teams.
Also almost none of it's checks like
or 
can really take advantage of it because of Volt Switch bringing a partner that can deal with those like 
or , without mentioning how the Grass types that can deal with it like 
or 
are terrified of burns. My only problem with this pokemon is that it is Spikes fodder for 
, but any competent team should have ways of dealing with the vessel
B → B+The washing machine is not washed and i think it has a very interesting but unexplored niche in the meta, being a really good check to the plethora of bulky Ground types (
) while also being one of the most consistent checks to thanks to Wisp and being less of Encore fodder than pokemon like and . It is also really good into that has been gaining popularity these days, and it dominates the sand core of and , alongside with important defensive pieces like and . Overall is a very good soft check to many things like , , and for bulky offense teams.Also almost none of it's checks like
or can really take advantage of it because of Volt Switch bringing a partner that can deal with those like or , without mentioning how the Grass types that can deal with it like or are terrified of burns. My only problem with this pokemon is that it is Spikes fodder for , but any competent team should have ways of dealing with the vessel
Awhile back I fooled around with Banded Boulder on a whim and it legitimately did feel substantially better. Accurate rockstab off an extremely good speed tier is no joke, and with some chip it was forcing out Corvs or making them tera to avoid a 2HK or OHK. I think it has potential, especially with Tera Blast to fortify its 'click big button and force them to react' style it kinda demanded. Definitely fragile and needed support though.
I don't disagree but you've said this like, 3 times already.Ok it's been 9 days let's talk
A+ → S
Need I explain? It holds the tier together
Rillas pure grass typing is too flawed too really be any more than an A- tier mon. Gterrain is good but the fact that almost everything resists it's priority really holds it backAnd
Excellent glue helping offensive teams
What makes
so good is its absurdly high physical defense and dual ghost/poison typing, which gives it a defensive boost because of how good poison is defensively. Even the poison stab helps it against fairies that threaten it, particularly 
.Its also able to act as a nasty plot user to patch up its low 88 sp. atk. Its able to act as an amazing defensive pivot and support pokemon like
, which offers a similar role. Even it's ability is greatI agree, there's alot more to pech, such as how it's an amazing spinblocker that, with max speed, beats great tusk, or even without it (tera ghost)What makes
Its also able to act as a nasty plot user to patch up its low 88 sp. atk. Its able to act as an amazing defensive pivot and support pokemon like
I absolutely think pech should be S/S-, I just pointed out that they've been saying this in like every post, you can literally scroll up one and see it. Repeating it doesn't add anything, especially if it's so close after the last nom.
I have usedI'm going to make a nomination to a mon that i think is very underrated right now
The washing machine is not washed and i think it has a very interesting but unexplored niche in the meta, being a really good check to the plethora of bulky Ground types (
Also almost none of it's checks like
a lot over last few months, and as much as I like the guy I don't agree. It's really hard to justify using over 
or which check similar things and have better recovery. Unlike the former two it gets 2HKO'd by the now common close combat after rocks, doesn't really check (2HKO'd by boots after rocks and has to hit pumps against substitute variants) and 
blocks its pain split healing. It lets substitute for free and gives specs 
a free hit if you don't volt switch, making it somewhat prediction reliant.Sorry bout that
Anyways can we at least get a "we're not yet sure when's the next update" ?
I'll be a bit of a contrarian here.
I don't think needing to tera in order to perform your role i.e spinblocking is something praiseworthy, never mind S rank worthy.
I honestly don't get the hype around it. It's shaky at best against Wpon and Dragonite as both of them can 2hko after a dd/sd and neither chain nor foul play is a ohko on them. If you don't run foul play there is a 50% Pecharunt will lose while doing barely any damage back against Dnite if poison doesn't trigger. It obviously can't do anything against Kinggambit and very little against Band Pult or Ceruledge. Against Tusk or Threads it needs to tera to have a fighting chance. It's a decent threat with max speed and NP but defensively speaking I find it rather lacking unless you are willing to almost constantly reserve your tera for it which i don't find appealing personally.. I think it's fine where it is.
UR -> C-/C . I've used maushold on psychic terrain and screens and I find it to be a decent hazard remover that isnt or 
. With tera normal it can do crazy things such as two hit ko 
and and with tera ghost+encore it can stop fighting sweepers like . It is a pure HO/cheese mon but it feel it defintely has a niche in the tier albiete small and only to a specific archetype.Sure with rocky helmet on mons it is annoying but there are plenty of good physical knockers in the tier such as
and in OU. Mons like will be pressured from these mons and helmet will be knocked off which opens up sweeping with population bombit is pretty much one of if not the best consistent wellspring check that is also splashable onto teams. Sure its poison typing makes it worse against tusk and treads but it also does so much as well, it can consistently check zama, its a tspike absorber, its a physical wall & like yeah obv pech is talking quite a bit from dragonite equake and wellspring tera boosted cudgels but it isnt passive as well unlike dondozo it can dish out poison or do a lot with foul play so revenge killers can ko and IT HAS PIVOTING with parting shot which makes it less passive.
while yes i do agree S is a bit too much, i think you're points arent the best established. by that logic something like zamazenta shouldnt be S because it doesnt do anything to mons like pech/gweez and its scared out by zapdos/moltres
Every sweeper is stopped by something so i don't think your comparison works. Especially since Zama has coverage/ways to deal with all 4 of the mons you mentioned. LO sets with Heavy Slam, Stone Edge and tera dark can break all 4 for example.
I don't know what people here are looking for when picking a physical wall for a team but to me the most important thing is "how many threats does it cover". Especially in a meta so oversatured with crazy offensive stuff. And the answer for Pech is: "Not that many", at least not the common ones.
Even if we ignore Wpon because realistically there is no good defensive answer to that thing, Tusk, Treads, Dnite and Gambit are like the most common phys attackers in the tier, 3 of them being S/S- rank, there is hardly a team out there that isn't running at least 1 of them, usually it's two or more. Pech is unreliable at best against all of them unless it uses tera which means after picking Pech as your physical wall you have to go and pick another physical wall to cover those guys. Not to mention other less common threats like Ceruledge, Dragapult or Weavile.
It's actually hard to find a physical attacker that doesn't hit Pech for supereffective damage with how widespread dark, ghost and ground attacks are this gen. The fact that it can still wall a bunch of them despite that along with the other perks you mentioned are among the reasons why i think it's current rank is justified but as you said, S is a bit much and imo S- is too much as well. It simply doesn't compare favorably against the other mons in S- in my eyes. You and all those "haha" jerks are free to disagree.
Ill bring this up later but it's funny how you mention tera as a way to overcome a check and somehow pech's defensive tera is a sin now
Absolutely insane thing to say btw. Here, let me list out the mons pech stops, or at least helps contribute to stopping, that are currently over A- in the VR.
Dnite, Waterpon, Tealpon, Zama, Ival, Enamorus, Rillaboom, DD Versions of Kyurem, Cinderace, and even Ceruledge if you run balloon pech and position it right.
Genuinely how is a reliably strong defensive mon with a very crazy ability bad into a meta like this? Id argue it's ability to almost always stifle a physical attacker with toxic or foul play (even if, yes, it's sometimes reliant on tera, but not always) is what makes it so great rn
Crazy to state that something needs to beat EVERYTHING in a tier to be considered good. Same logic with zamazenta, just because it doesn't beat everything doesn't mean it's good.
Going back to your za point, you literally mentioned "tera dark" and then go on to say pech needing tera sometimes makes it bad.
Also tusk loses 1v1 to max speed pech which isn't even a random niche set, it's quite common on hazard stack.
Also, "needing tera" is a very flawed argument. With that logic terablast Dnite, some setup zamazenta sets, etc, are also "unreliable."
Pech w/tera can easily beat anything in needs to for its team.
One more thing I want to include is parting shot, which is huge for supporting set-up teammates or just keeping momentum on the (again) many switches it forces.
Tldr, extremely reliable pivot who will almost always have value on a team.
Gonna skim over this because I already responded to this in my earlier argument but just wanted to say that mfs who laugh react and don't reply are kind of obnoxious so this is the one statement I'll agree with you on
Wait what? How does Pecharunt need tera to spin block? With bulk investment even headlong rush from Great Tusk isn't doing that much. But even if it was it doesn't need to stay in on these spinners. It just needs to spin once and switch out to something that either punishes spin if they try to do it again or resists/is immune to ground type attacks (or does both in the case of rocky helmet users and the Kanto birds). Tbf that is the case for a lot of spinblockers but the difference is that it can stay in on both Great Tusk and Iron Treads in a pinch to tank their attacks and either parting shot or (in the case of Great Tusk) toxic/malignant chain. While it isn't as good as Gholdengo at this role it can do it and it does it pretty well considering it also has to check so many physical threats.
Pecharunt is easily the best check to Wogerpon in the meta. Sure it sometimes loses but most of the time it is very good at checking/beating Wogerpon.
I wouldn't go as far as to say S but I think S- is pretty justified. It is a great check to most of the overwhelming physical attackers that are common in OU while also being a threat of its own with toxic/malignant chain and more directly with nasty plot. It isn't perfect but it just does so much that I think it is justified.
I would like to nominateto C- as a usable side grade to rotom wash that can counter kyurem.
Also please don't just laugh react because that's just objectively mean. If you find this statement hilariously wrong please just respond to it
Okay so, on the OP it says that If you want to nominate a mon, it would be very helpfull for your case to accompany replays of high ladder or tournaments where it shows up and performs
And in general your arguments have been on the weaker side, for example your pecharunt one, it says "it holds the Tier together" okay, explain how. If you see a Lot of the competent players will say a Lot More than just that
Rotom-Heat is in theory a good answer to Kyurem yes, but in practice it will struggle a lot to actually check it.I would like to nominate
Also please don't just laugh react because that's just objectively mean. If you find this statement hilariously wrong please just respond to it
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-Heat: 219-258 (72.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As this calc shows, Specs sets do a trillion with Draco Meteor, and thats using a Calm nature, so with one prediction right the Kyurem user will destroy the Rotom. Also, SubTect sets will beat it through PP stall with Pressure and the fact that Overheat lowers your Special Attack so you can use Substitute repeatedly to the point that Rotom will do very little damage. Don't get me started on how Sub DD sets beat it really easily thanks to Scale Shot
Another problem is that because of it's Stealth Rock weakness you will be forced to use Boots or having to include a lot of support in the form of hazard control cores like Hatt + Tusk. This in and of itself wouldn't be terrible, a lot of great pokemon need support in the form of hazard removal in order to work at it's full potential like AV Torn or Ceruledge, but the lack of reliable recovery makes this a real problem. It also struggles to do progress against any Tera Fire user like Zamazenta, Scale Shot Dragonite or Kingambit, or even the same Kyurem it's tasked with handling defensively.
And with the rest of the metagame, Rotom will do very little progress against common pokemon like Slowking-Galar, Heatran or AV Mola. If you don't predict right every time you are also giving entry to very scary wallbreakers like Wellspring, and the Water weakness means that you will have a bad time switching against the offensive waters and spamming Volt Switch
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I try to not ramble endlessly but it seems my arguments might be to on the short side. And yes, I'm not high ladder.
And yeah. Guess it ain't even that good.
Seems like rotom-heat is to remain unranked.
The rocks weakness wouldn't really hurt it much because of removal. I understand being weak to rock sucks because stealth rock is on virtually every team and with
seeing some use it could hurt . Still tho electric/fire is a great typing that is just as good as electric/water (I would still say electric/water is better).But like even then there's not much reason to use heat-tom over
because of it's (arguably) better typing and STAB hpump to destroy ground-types.
--> B+I tested this mon slot and it's a very excellent pokemon with a surprisingly versatile movepool and a decent amount of viable sets. It has a very powerful knock off when boosted by choice band, amazing speed tier, and a super solid move in flower trick.
Many might compare it to tealpon who's a tad stronger and faster when teraed. However I definitely think meows has strong niches over her. For example, it has a much stronger knock off and uturn, and a far greater base speed stat, meaning without tera it's going to be better in most situations. Triple axel also let's it very easily destroy most fly mons such as torn, or zap, torn being the better target as you can immediately threaten a knockout on it off rip due to how fast meows is. The dark type is also pretty solid for resisting ghost in a pinch. Finally, it has access to things like Trick to disrupt opponents (on scarf sets and some band sets) and spikes for boots sets. Il
Tldr, meows is very fast and surprisingly strong.
--> A-This pokemon is excellent. While its sets are somewhat similar in nature they're all effective nonetheless.
Swords dance is a very threatening breaker that can also function as a great revenge killer with ice shard (and tera). It's also a great knock off user, capable of first knocking, then eventually muscling through checks throughout the course of a game.
+2 252 Atk Tera Ice Weavile Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 346-412 (86.7 - 103.2%) -- 99.9% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 259-308 (64.9 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
It's tera types are also rather versatile as well, with ghost to take bpresses or Dnite espeed, ice for more damage, or fire to absorb moltres burns.
The set that really made me want to make this post, however, is choice band- not much outside of Alo (easy to account for with the right teammates) or the rare toxapex wants to take this thing on.
For example, heres an example of how strong this is:
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 196-233 (49.1 - 58.3%) -- 99.9% chance to 2HKO
I recently laddered up to 1810 with band Weavile + hatt & kingambit, and with the right plays, it's very easy to keep rocks off the field for most of the game.
Tldr: I think it's frailty and rock weakness of the mon is easily worth considering it's damage output, unique and strong stab type, and amazing speed tier.
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would like to nominate
UR -->C/C+
do I even need to explain people already know me as the jolteon guy however jolteon has been very useful for me
I have gotten #1 on ladder 5 times with it(yes 5 times not kidding)
Jolteon's speed tier is very good and can actually outspeed a surprising amount of the unboosted tier also it's superior to thundurus therian as a tera fairy user to wall raging bolt as it gets a fairy move naturally and outspeeds a lot of things thundurus can'tjolteon's rmt
(can share replays if needed however most replays in rmt)
UR -->C/C+do I even need to explain people already know me as the jolteon guy however jolteon has been very useful for me
I have gotten #1 on ladder 5 times with it(yes 5 times not kidding)
Jolteon's speed tier is very good and can actually outspeed a surprising amount of the unboosted tier also it's superior to thundurus therian as a tera fairy user to wall raging bolt as it gets a fairy move naturally and outspeeds a lot of things thundurus can'tjolteon's rmt
(can share replays if needed however most replays in rmt)