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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [ survey results -- see post 21,221 ]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
As promised here, I've decided to drop some teams I made and loaded during this SPL. As a metalhead, some names are directly linked to song titles from my preferred bands
https://pokepast.es/30dc8ffa4f8b5fc1 - I've always been confident in this 6, I faced an awful MU and this team shown it was able to win vs boots + skarm. Pretty funny my call was tspikes + weather ball tornt to break their team and their zapdos usage, and I faced blissey + boots team. I was kinda annoyed by garganacl there so I chose to use slowking-galar with -atk and 31iv speed and 44ev speed to outspeed it and psynoise to deal with.
https://pokepast.es/d0b41d15593962fe - This one is a revamp of my SPL week 4 vs ACR1, I just had garchomp > ceruledge but I do think it actually breaks better fat teams. In this game, manaphy woulda been decent regardless of haxx. It ended in a way I didnt want to but we move on. Screen is broken and I do think we should seriously hard look for suspect items like Light Clay and Heat Rock looking at how this has been strongly rewarded in this SPL.
https://pokepast.es/162987988442c1cf - We won't talk about this game, but this is prob my preferred build I've done by far this SPL. And yes; there's an other wball tornt, because I think this can be decent vs some teams. You can say Ogerpon is rough vs it but actually even if you tera Iron Hands you'll never regret it in that kind of mu as Tornadus-Therian or scarf tusk will make other mons to struggle, so I think that's fair. This Slowking-Galar is future sight because for me one of the rarest mons that come to Hands (without fifty/fifty move to click) is Pecharunt full def.
https://pokepast.es/83f49059b3739010 - Probably the coolest offense Ive built in this SPL, even though its a classic 6, I theorized it a few. Ting-Lu ohkoes Ogerpon after weakness policy with Payback, and I do live crit woger adamant. Samurott-Hisui is scarf sacred sword tera ghost in case zama idef becomes annoying. Liquidation on Iron Valiant helps to deal with moltres, and Iron Moth with energy ball tera grass deals well with garga teams overall. Ghold tera fight deals with stall a bit unless there's clodsire
https://pokepast.es/cecea15f5ce8c236 - Pcool grassy Ive built vs ATTRIBUTE, I think the team was fine but it ended to lose on full speed pecharunt, prob the only thing I didnt want to face there (and I wrote about it in my chan before the game as well), I'm a bit sad this one lost but pretty sure its a decent 6. Zama lorb adamant breaks pwell fat teams and benefits from grassy to extra turns. You can easily make it tera dark for pech, I made it fight for corviknight
https://pokepast.es/34df6433f597a28a - This one is one Ive built for entrocefalo in semifinals, he didnt load it at the end but then I shared it to several people on tours and they didnt drop any game. Here I targetted some garganacl so I decided to play covert nite. In addition, Ive made tusk head smash av to live some cool things like Kyurem/Darkrai ice beam and to kill moltres which can be rough there
I have like 50 more teams I did in SPL but for most of them I want to keep them for the moment. As you can see there's a lot of Dragonite because I chose to share them because that's the kind of team new players will understand easily how it works for most of the ones Ive put here and... I guess that's the reason of why I wanted to share this, I like seeing people loading offense and having fun with it
all right, it's time for me to bring something to the table that i've been thinking about for a long time. we've had an entire year with no tiering action whatsoever and this meta is still unsatisfactory in many ways. broken threats such as primarina and alomomola rule the tier, and zap-king-lu is running rampant with no answers to it whatsoever except for all the answers there are. what to do about this scenario? the answer is obvious: we must unban arena trap and shadow tag. this is my thesis statement.
power creep has not been kind to these abilities. dugtrio may have been a legitimate threat in gen 6 or 7 or whenever the fuck arena trap was banned, i forget, but its damage output and speed tier are noticeably lacking in modern metas. it's outsped by meta staples such as dragapult, deoxys-speed and jolteon, and can do nothing against several common threats like chesnaught and dondozo. at -2, a scenario in which dugtrio often finds itself for what i hope are obvious reasons, it fails to even 2hko heatran in grassy terrain. what a loser! honestly i might even use wugtrio over it
relatively less affected by these problems, gothitelle is nonetheless plagued by a series of plagues that plague it. first of all, kingambit exists, even though it shouldn't. gothitelle has absolutely nothing against kingambit except for tricking it a choice item, and who would ever do that? you'd have to be a real dirtbag to pull off a move like that. have some decency. second of all, darkrai is legal now and can easily seduce gothitelle with its brooding and mysterious charms and easy access to cigarettes. third, ting-lu can wall anything gothitelle can do except for tricking it a choice item, and who would ever do that? you'd have to be a real dirtbag to pull off a move like that. have some decency. and last but not least, ou staple roaring moon can easily outspeed and ohko gothitelle with its powerful knock off, and gothitelle has no recourse against this. if there were some sort of mechanic that could allow it to change its type, maybe gothitelle would have a better time in these matchups, but fortunately there's no such thing (and even if there was, it would surely be banned)
i should also note here that wynaut, the best pokemon in the game by far, is not legal in this generation. thus, we have nothing to fear from it after a shadow tag unban unless it can afford a plane ticket to paldea, and air travel prices are only going up. i do have my reservations about trapinch, an arena trap user that's historically been way better than dugtrio due to its superior speed and power, but we can eat that bridge when we come to it. perchance.
let's go over some calcs: [remember to paste calcs here before posting]
furthermore, adding trapping abilities into the game has serious benefits. it punishes teams that switch a lot, which is something that no good pokemon in svou can probably do. this is good because i don't like it when my opponents switch. let me hit the thing in front of me! i clicked the super effective button and should be rewarded for it. in the anime there were limited amount of switch-ins a person could do especially the challenger, but since we can't implement that as part of our ruleset because of the tyrannical ou monarchy, our only solution to make the game more like the anime's ruleset (which is official and therefore far better than our fan-made one) is to unban these abilities. there are numerous unhealthy pokemon that become much easier to deal with if they can be trapped by arena trap, such as pecharunt, gholdengo, and gliscor
ornamental paragraph for filler. lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. i can just write whatever i want here because no one's going to read this paragraph. we must unite against the bourgeoisie. seize the means of production. you have nothing to lose but your chains. duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum
ok back to the essay. trapping has counterplay now that it's never had before. for example, you can run known viable item shed shell, because we all know that free item slots in svou are so abundant that you can just slap whatever on anything with no downside. you can also become immune from trapping by turning into a ghost. not tera ghost or anything, i mean turning into an actual ghost because your mon got trapped and fucking died
lastly, the april fools' sprites for dugtrio and gothitelle don't match up well against the modern meta. gothitelle is just the classic scribble gag. don't get me wrong, i do appreciate the scribbles and i think they should comprise a good number of sprites, but it's not often that i look at one and actually go "hah that's funny" unless it's really poorly drawn. and dugtrio is minions. now everyone knows that minions are objectively the funniest thing to ever exist, but we already have a minions joke. that's morpeko's whole deal. why do we need two sets of minions? gru only needed one set and he got plenty done with em
so in conclusion, i think an unban of these perfectly balanced and competitive abilities is long overdue and will have many beneficial effects on the meta that i'll think of later. if you still aren't convinced, then just read the first letter of each paragraph. and then go back and read the whole post because i know you skipped to the end looking for a tldr. i worked hard on this, shame on you
power creep has not been kind to these abilities. dugtrio may have been a legitimate threat in gen 6 or 7 or whenever the fuck arena trap was banned, i forget, but its damage output and speed tier are noticeably lacking in modern metas. it's outsped by meta staples such as dragapult, deoxys-speed and jolteon, and can do nothing against several common threats like chesnaught and dondozo. at -2, a scenario in which dugtrio often finds itself for what i hope are obvious reasons, it fails to even 2hko heatran in grassy terrain. what a loser! honestly i might even use wugtrio over it
relatively less affected by these problems, gothitelle is nonetheless plagued by a series of plagues that plague it. first of all, kingambit exists, even though it shouldn't. gothitelle has absolutely nothing against kingambit except for tricking it a choice item, and who would ever do that? you'd have to be a real dirtbag to pull off a move like that. have some decency. second of all, darkrai is legal now and can easily seduce gothitelle with its brooding and mysterious charms and easy access to cigarettes. third, ting-lu can wall anything gothitelle can do except for tricking it a choice item, and who would ever do that? you'd have to be a real dirtbag to pull off a move like that. have some decency. and last but not least, ou staple roaring moon can easily outspeed and ohko gothitelle with its powerful knock off, and gothitelle has no recourse against this. if there were some sort of mechanic that could allow it to change its type, maybe gothitelle would have a better time in these matchups, but fortunately there's no such thing (and even if there was, it would surely be banned)
i should also note here that wynaut, the best pokemon in the game by far, is not legal in this generation. thus, we have nothing to fear from it after a shadow tag unban unless it can afford a plane ticket to paldea, and air travel prices are only going up. i do have my reservations about trapinch, an arena trap user that's historically been way better than dugtrio due to its superior speed and power, but we can eat that bridge when we come to it. perchance.
let's go over some calcs: [remember to paste calcs here before posting]
furthermore, adding trapping abilities into the game has serious benefits. it punishes teams that switch a lot, which is something that no good pokemon in svou can probably do. this is good because i don't like it when my opponents switch. let me hit the thing in front of me! i clicked the super effective button and should be rewarded for it. in the anime there were limited amount of switch-ins a person could do especially the challenger, but since we can't implement that as part of our ruleset because of the tyrannical ou monarchy, our only solution to make the game more like the anime's ruleset (which is official and therefore far better than our fan-made one) is to unban these abilities. there are numerous unhealthy pokemon that become much easier to deal with if they can be trapped by arena trap, such as pecharunt, gholdengo, and gliscor
ornamental paragraph for filler. lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. i can just write whatever i want here because no one's going to read this paragraph. we must unite against the bourgeoisie. seize the means of production. you have nothing to lose but your chains. duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum
ok back to the essay. trapping has counterplay now that it's never had before. for example, you can run known viable item shed shell, because we all know that free item slots in svou are so abundant that you can just slap whatever on anything with no downside. you can also become immune from trapping by turning into a ghost. not tera ghost or anything, i mean turning into an actual ghost because your mon got trapped and fucking died
lastly, the april fools' sprites for dugtrio and gothitelle don't match up well against the modern meta. gothitelle is just the classic scribble gag. don't get me wrong, i do appreciate the scribbles and i think they should comprise a good number of sprites, but it's not often that i look at one and actually go "hah that's funny" unless it's really poorly drawn. and dugtrio is minions. now everyone knows that minions are objectively the funniest thing to ever exist, but we already have a minions joke. that's morpeko's whole deal. why do we need two sets of minions? gru only needed one set and he got plenty done with em
so in conclusion, i think an unban of these perfectly balanced and competitive abilities is long overdue and will have many beneficial effects on the meta that i'll think of later. if you still aren't convinced, then just read the first letter of each paragraph. and then go back and read the whole post because i know you skipped to the end looking for a tldr. i worked hard on this, shame on you
Dugtrio Is Broken isn't gonna like this proposition...
You know I’m really glad you guy brought back 
into the tier. I think the movepool additions of Heavy Slam that’s almost always 120 BP before Tough Claws and Psychic Fangs that does like fucking 75% minimum to 
are really healthy. Being able to sweep the entire Metagame after only some chip if that while effortlessly tanking most super effective hits and outspeeding all but the fastest Pokemon which it has Bullet Punch for is what this Metagame needs.
into the tier. I think the movepool additions of Heavy Slam that’s almost always 120 BP before Tough Claws and Psychic Fangs that does like fucking 75% minimum to are really healthy. Being able to sweep the entire Metagame after only some chip if that while effortlessly tanking most super effective hits and outspeeding all but the fastest Pokemon which it has Bullet Punch for is what this Metagame needs.
Is this your goat?You know I’m really glad you guy brought back
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Ground Gogoat Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Metagross-Mega: 346-408 (95 - 112%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock