Metagame SV UU Metagame Discussion - The Indigo Disk

[NDK]

It's been a while, but I wanted to comment on the projected shifts that are projected to affect UU:
UU to OU

Ogerpon's departure would sting a little for UU, but would not be seismic. 110 speed is very good in the tier, being able to outpace the likes of Keldeo and speed tying with Latios. It's a very good pivot and revenge killer, as after Tera, it can outspeed Greninja and booster energy mons such as Iron Jugulis and Sandy Shocks, while also having utility moves such as Encore to annoy setup sweepers such as Calm Mind Latios and Spikes to further support its team. Ogerpon also has a fantastic Choice Band set, which is great for its raw power. If Ogerpon were to rise, I think other pivots such as Zapdos-Galar would increase in popularity, and mons such as Greninja and Keldeo would become better as they don't fear Ogerpon revenge killing them.

If Excadrill were to rise, it would drastically change the tier. Excadrill is one of UU's two Rapid Spinners, and it is the only one that is fast. It naturally fits on many teams as a glue mon that can provide Rapid Spin and Stealth Rocks, which are vital in team support. Without Excadrill, players might resort to using Cyclizar as their Rapid Spinner of choice, as it is much faster than Donphan, UU's other rapid spin user. Pokemon such as Tinkaton, Rotom-W become much better, as Excadrill is no longer around to threaten them with boosted attacks. Teams are going to have to innovate, and the meta will be drastically different.

A rise that I don't really know how to feel about. Hydrapple serves as a great wincon with its Nasty Plot set, being able set up on mons such as Rotom-W, Sandy Shocks, and Slowking. It also serves as a check to Metagross, non-Icy Wind Keldeo, and the outgoing Excadrill. Its departure would greatly benefit the aforementioned Rotom-W and Shocks, as they can threaten more in the tier. Hydrapple leaving would change UU, but I think UU can manage.
OU to UU:

Heatran's return spells doom for contact Pokemon. Pivots such as Lokix, Scizor, and Zapdos-Galar all have to think twice about using U-turn, or else they risk suffering from a Flame Body burn. Heatran would also serve as UU's offensive Fire type, being a mon that you have to account for at all times in the builder. Heatran would be very good in UU, especially without Tornadus to regenerate the damage it might inflict.
RUBL to UU:

Hydreigon is pretty good in UU. While it competes with its future counterpart in Iron Jugulis as an offensive Dark-type mon, Hydreigon can run Nasty Plot or Specs sets that are extremely difficult to answer. With Tera and levitate Nasty Plot sets are extremely difficult to take down, and can tear through your team if unprepared, while Choice Specs sets have a high degree of immediate power that can greatly wear down a team.

Mamoswine is alright in UU. While it faces competition from Weavile, having a Ground-type is nice as you get STAB Earthquake, which can be used to defeat some mons that Weavile struggles to defeat, such as Cobalion and Tinkaton. Answers such as Skarm lose to flinches from Icicle Crash, and Trailblaze sets can be extremely dangerous.
RU to UU:

Idk why this is rising. While it supposedly serves as a check to Excadrill and is a defogger, it is currently unranked on the UU viability rankings. It also has bad matchups against the likes of Rotom-Wash and Sandy Shocks, two Pokemon that are only going to get better as their checks are projected to rise to OU. While it can pivot against those threats, it cannot switch into much with Excadrill also predicted to rise into OU.
Edit: This was used on a stall team that topped the ladder, which substancially increased it's usage.

I think Blissey is projected to rise because Stall is very good on the UU ladder. Blissey is the special sponge of stall teams. If it does rise to UU, Blissey would just be another piece on stall teams, not really fitting on other teams due to its passivity.

Mew is UU's designated HO lead, being able to use taunt to shut down other hazard leads while setting up its own hazards. If Mew rises, it will primarily fit as an HO lead.
I think Water-types such as Slowking and Rotom-W would benefit the most from the shifts, having many of their answers leave the tier.

 

[Yttoshirib]

It's been a while, but I wanted to comment on the projected shifts that are projected to affect UU:
UU to OU

Ogerpon's departure would sting a little for UU, but would not be seismic. 110 speed is very good in the tier, being able to outpace the likes of Keldeo and speed tying with Latios. It's a very good pivot and revenge killer, as after Tera, it can outspeed Greninja, and booster energy mons such as Iron Jugulis and Sandy Shocks, while also having utility moves such as Encore to annoy setup sweepers such as Calm Mind Latios and Spikes to further support its team. Ogerpon also has a fantastic Choice Band set, which is great for its raw power. If Ogerpon were to rise, I think other pivots such as Zapdos-Galar would increase in popularity, and mons such as Greninja and Keldeo would become better as they don't fear Ogerpon revenge killing them.

If Excadrill were to rise, it would drastically change the tier. Excadrill is one of UU's two Rapid Spinners, and it is the only one that is fast. It naturally fits on many teams as a glue mon that can provide Rapid Spin and Stealth Rocks, which are vital in team support. Without Excadrill, players might resort to using Cyclizar as their Rapid Spinner of choice, as it is much faster than Donphan, UU's other rapid spin user. Pokemon such as Tinkaton, Rotom-W become much better, as Excadrill is no longer around to threaten them with boosted attacks. Teams are going to have to innovate, and the meta will be drastically different.

A rise that I don't really know how to feel about. Hydrapple serves as a great wincon with its Nasty Plot set, being able set up on mons such as Rotom-W and Sandy Shocks, and Slowking. It also serves as a check to Metagross, non-Icy Wind Keldeo, and the outgoing Excadrill. Its departure would greatly benefit the aforementioned Rotom-W and Shocks, as they can threaten more in the tier. Hydrapple leaving would change UU, but I think UU can manage.
OU to UU:

Heatran's return spells doom for contact Pokemon. Pivots such as Lokix, Scizor, and Zapdos-Galar all have to think twice about using U-turn, or else they risk suffering from a Flame Body burn. Heatran would also serve as UU's offensive Fire type, being a mon that you have to account for at all times in the builder. Heatran would be very good in UU, especially without Tornadus to regenerate the damage it might inflict.
RUBL to UU:

Hydreigon is pretty good in UU. While it competes with its future counterpart in Iron Jugulis as an offensive Dark-type mon, Hydreigon can run Nasty Plot or Specs sets that are extremely difficult to answer. With Tera and levitate Nasty Plot sets are extremely difficult to take down, and can tear through your team if unprepared, while Choice Specs sets have a high degree of immediate power that can greatly wear down a team.

Mamoswine is alright in UU. While it faces competition from Weavile, having a Ground-type is nice as you get STAB Earthquake, which can be used to defeat some mons that Weavile easily defeats, such as Cobalion and Tinkaton. Answers such as Skarm lose to flinches from Icicle Crash, and Trailblaze sets can be extremely dangerous.
RU to UU:

Idk why this is rising. While it supposedly serves as a check to Excadrill and is a defogger, it is currently unranked on the UU viability rankings. It also has bad matchups against the likes of Rotom-Wash and Sandy Shocks, two Pokemon that are only going to get better as their checks are projected to rise to OU. While it can pivot against those threats, it cannot switch into much with Excadrill also predicted to rise into OU.

I think Blissey is projected to rise because Stall is very good on the UU ladder. Blissey is the special sponge of stall teams. If it does rise to UU, Blissey would just be another piece on stall teams, not really fitting on other teams due to its passivity.

Mew is UU's designated HO lead, being able to use taunt to shut down other hazard leads while setting up its own hazards. If Mew rises, it will primarily fit as an HO lead.
I think Water-types such as Slowking and Rotom-W would benefit the most from the shifts, having many of their answers leave the tier.

I agree with Mamoswine in UU. Although it isn’t as consistent as other Pokémon in the tier due to its constant reliance on momentum from pivots to bring it in safely, given its low Speed and fairly poor bulk, it is still one of the best stallbreakers in the entire tier. The combination of Ice- and Ground-type STAB is absurdly strong, meaning there is no consistent switch-in that can repeatedly come in without real risk, especially since it can run sets like Tera Grass + Trailblaze for Rotom-Wash, which would theoretically be its perfect check by resisting or being immune to both of its STABs. This also allows Mamoswine to snowball thanks to the +1 Speed boost, patching up one of its biggest weaknesses.

 

[NDK]

There is one thing that really stands out from looking at the SV UU stats from Week 1 of UUPL, and that is Weavile's high usage and winrate. Here is the SV UU usage stats for Week 1 of UUPL.

Week 1 Stats

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Latios | 10 | 41.67% | 30.00% |
| 2 | Weavile | 9 | 37.50% | 66.67% |
| 3 | Skarmory | 9 | 37.50% | 44.44% |
| 4 | Slowking | 7 | 29.17% | 42.86% |
| 5 | Excadrill | 6 | 25.00% | 50.00% |
| 6 | Conkeldurr | 5 | 20.83% | 60.00% |
| 7 | Mandibuzz | 5 | 20.83% | 20.00% |
| 8 | Fezandipiti | 5 | 20.83% | 60.00% |
| 9 | Tinkaton | 5 | 20.83% | 40.00% |
| 10 | Donphan | 5 | 20.83% | 60.00% |
| 11 | Arcanine-Hisui | 5 | 20.83% | 60.00% |
| 12 | Hydreigon | 5 | 20.83% | 60.00% |
| 13 | Clodsire | 5 | 20.83% | 20.00% |
| 14 | Keldeo | 5 | 20.83% | 40.00% |
| 15 | Thundurus | 4 | 16.67% | 75.00% |
| 16 | Metagross | 4 | 16.67% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Scizor | 4 | 16.67% | 75.00% |
| 18 | Lokix | 4 | 16.67% | 25.00% |
| 19 | Sandy Shocks | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 20 | Sinistcha | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 21 | Keldeo-Resolute | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 22 | Ogerpon | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 23 | Thundurus-Therian | 3 | 12.50% | 100.00% |
| 24 | Slither Wing | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 25 | Hydrapple | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 26 | Gastrodon | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 27 | Skeledirge | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 28 | Toxapex | 2 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 29 | Gardevoir | 2 | 8.33% | 50.00% |
| 30 | Revavroom | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 31 | Volcanion | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Swampert | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Gligar | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 34 | Cobalion | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 35 | Salamence | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 36 | Bisharp | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 37 | Talonflame | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 38 | Enamorus-Therian | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Raikou | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 40 | Greninja | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |

We can see here that Weavile has the second most usage at 37.50%, meaning that of the 24 teams brought to UUPL, 9 of which had a Weavile on it. Of those 9 teams, 6 of them won, making it so that Weavile has a winrate of 66.67%. This is an extremely high winrate for such a high usage mon, and is the highest winrate of any mon with over 4 uses in UUPL. I would not be surprised if a suspect test for Weavile would happen soon.

 

[Magcargo]

There is one thing that really stands out from looking at the SV UU stats from Week 1 of UUPL, and that is Weavile's high usage and winrate. Here is the SV UU usage stats for Week 1 of UUPL.

Week 1 Stats

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Latios | 10 | 41.67% | 30.00% |
| 2 | Weavile | 9 | 37.50% | 66.67% |
| 3 | Skarmory | 9 | 37.50% | 44.44% |
| 4 | Slowking | 7 | 29.17% | 42.86% |
| 5 | Excadrill | 6 | 25.00% | 50.00% |
| 6 | Conkeldurr | 5 | 20.83% | 60.00% |
| 7 | Mandibuzz | 5 | 20.83% | 20.00% |
| 8 | Fezandipiti | 5 | 20.83% | 60.00% |
| 9 | Tinkaton | 5 | 20.83% | 40.00% |
| 10 | Donphan | 5 | 20.83% | 60.00% |
| 11 | Arcanine-Hisui | 5 | 20.83% | 60.00% |
| 12 | Hydreigon | 5 | 20.83% | 60.00% |
| 13 | Clodsire | 5 | 20.83% | 20.00% |
| 14 | Keldeo | 5 | 20.83% | 40.00% |
| 15 | Thundurus | 4 | 16.67% | 75.00% |
| 16 | Metagross | 4 | 16.67% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Scizor | 4 | 16.67% | 75.00% |
| 18 | Lokix | 4 | 16.67% | 25.00% |
| 19 | Sandy Shocks | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 20 | Sinistcha | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 21 | Keldeo-Resolute | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 22 | Ogerpon | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 23 | Thundurus-Therian | 3 | 12.50% | 100.00% |
| 24 | Slither Wing | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 25 | Hydrapple | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 26 | Gastrodon | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 27 | Skeledirge | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 28 | Toxapex | 2 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 29 | Gardevoir | 2 | 8.33% | 50.00% |
| 30 | Revavroom | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 31 | Volcanion | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Swampert | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Gligar | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 34 | Cobalion | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 35 | Salamence | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 36 | Bisharp | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 37 | Talonflame | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 38 | Enamorus-Therian | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Raikou | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 40 | Greninja | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |

We can see here that Weavile has the second most usage at 37.50%, meaning that of the 24 teams brought to UUPL, 9 of which had a Weavile on it. Of those 9 teams, 6 of them won, making it so that Weavile has a winrate of 66.67%. This is an extremely high winrate for such a high usage mon, and is the highest winrate of any mon with over 4 uses in UUPL. I would not be surprised if a suspect test for Weavile would happen soon.

Ngl, this sample size is WAY too low to draw any meaningful conclusion.

 

[Yttoshirib]

There is one thing that really stands out from looking at the SV UU stats from Week 1 of UUPL, and that is Weavile's high usage and winrate. Here is the SV UU usage stats for Week 1 of UUPL.

Week 1 Stats

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Latios | 10 | 41.67% | 30.00% |
| 2 | Weavile | 9 | 37.50% | 66.67% |
| 3 | Skarmory | 9 | 37.50% | 44.44% |
| 4 | Slowking | 7 | 29.17% | 42.86% |
| 5 | Excadrill | 6 | 25.00% | 50.00% |
| 6 | Conkeldurr | 5 | 20.83% | 60.00% |
| 7 | Mandibuzz | 5 | 20.83% | 20.00% |
| 8 | Fezandipiti | 5 | 20.83% | 60.00% |
| 9 | Tinkaton | 5 | 20.83% | 40.00% |
| 10 | Donphan | 5 | 20.83% | 60.00% |
| 11 | Arcanine-Hisui | 5 | 20.83% | 60.00% |
| 12 | Hydreigon | 5 | 20.83% | 60.00% |
| 13 | Clodsire | 5 | 20.83% | 20.00% |
| 14 | Keldeo | 5 | 20.83% | 40.00% |
| 15 | Thundurus | 4 | 16.67% | 75.00% |
| 16 | Metagross | 4 | 16.67% | 50.00% |
| 17 | Scizor | 4 | 16.67% | 75.00% |
| 18 | Lokix | 4 | 16.67% | 25.00% |
| 19 | Sandy Shocks | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 20 | Sinistcha | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 21 | Keldeo-Resolute | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 22 | Ogerpon | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 23 | Thundurus-Therian | 3 | 12.50% | 100.00% |
| 24 | Slither Wing | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 25 | Hydrapple | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 26 | Gastrodon | 3 | 12.50% | 66.67% |
| 27 | Skeledirge | 3 | 12.50% | 33.33% |
| 28 | Toxapex | 2 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 29 | Gardevoir | 2 | 8.33% | 50.00% |
| 30 | Revavroom | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 31 | Volcanion | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 32 | Swampert | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 33 | Gligar | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 34 | Cobalion | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 35 | Salamence | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 36 | Bisharp | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 37 | Talonflame | 1 | 4.17% | 0.00% |
| 38 | Enamorus-Therian | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Raikou | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |
| 40 | Greninja | 1 | 4.17% | 100.00% |

We can see here that Weavile has the second most usage at 37.50%, meaning that of the 24 teams brought to UUPL, 9 of which had a Weavile on it. Of those 9 teams, 6 of them won, making it so that Weavile has a winrate of 66.67%. This is an extremely high winrate for such a high usage mon, and is the highest winrate of any mon with over 4 uses in UUPL. I would not be surprised if a suspect test for Weavile would happen soon.

I don’t see Weavile as a major issue in the tier. While it obviously forces teams to run at least one check, this is more due to its consistency rather than it being inherently broken. Its weakness to priority and Tera also keeps it in check, and there are plenty of both offensive and defensive answers available

 

[NDK]

Ngl, this sample size is WAY too low to draw any meaningful conclusion.

Very true, however, I have been seeing some grumblings about Weavile being potentially broken, so tiering action might happen. Personally, I don't think Weavile is broken. It is very, very good, but not broken as it is frail and easy to offensively check with mons such as Lokix and Scizor, which either forces Weavile to burn Tera or lose momentum.

 

[LRB]

Just want to throw out that maybe Revavroom should be looked at. Its the biggest gamerobber ever and its incredibly one-dimensional, providing no defensive utility and mostly just waiting in the back on screens teams for the right opportunity to come in, click shift gear, and run away with the game given that it doesnt miss an untimely gunk shot.

Idk if thats enough to make it banworthy, but personally I think those annoying, almost identical HO builds, which plague both ladder and tournaments would be appropriately nerfed by its removal

 

[NDK]

New month new tier shifts:
UU to OU:

Ogerpon's rise isn't going to affect UU too much. While it was a good speed control option with Tera, being able to outspeed the entire unboosted meta, it became too much of a tera sink. With its departure other grasses such as Hydrapple and Sinistcha become more prevalent, and Serperior might see an uptick in usage as a grass type with Knock Off.
RUBL to UU:

Hydreigon gets its much-deserved rise up to UU. It's been very good in the tier, as after Tera few mons can break through it. Nasty Plot offers a level of power that is very difficult to take down, often forcing Skeledirge to tera and having an amazing matchup into Unaware Clodsire.
ThatOneApple explains more about Hydregion in the UU VR Discussion:

B to A-
Probably the best punish to Sinistcha Dependency with the fact that it resists both stabs, has Nasty Plot, and is immune to the spikes that Sinistcha is typically paired with. Similarly to Keldeo, its also just a generally good punish to fat styles with Sub and Tera, but is far more immediate with pressure due to getting +2 sp atk.

While on paper, Mamoswine is outclassed by Weavile, it does offer many unique traits. Earthquake lets it defeat Tinkaton, which Weavile struggles against, and set variety makes Mamoswine extremely unpredictable. However, Mamoswine has massive 4 moveslot syndrome, as it wants Earthquake, Icicle Crash, Trailblaze, Knock Off, Substitute, and Stealth Rock. While not completely slow, it only has 80 speed, which makes it struggle into many offensive teams.
RU to UU:

While Mew could run a variety of different sets, it most often sees usage as a lead on HO teams. With a set of Spikes, Stealth Rock, Taunt, Misty Explosion, Mew is a very effective hazard lead, being able to set hazards and either prevent opponents from getting their own hazards up or, with the help of either Taunt, Misty Explosion or Tera Ghost, prevent the opponent from getting rid of them. Mew can even swap out Spikes for Thunder Wave or Will-o-wisp if it needs it. This is probably Mew's best role, and while it can have other sets, this is probably the best one it has in UU.

If Kyle Kuzma were a Pokemon. Talonflame is not good in UU, primarily rising because of its usage on a popular stall team that topped the UU ladder. As Megastar54 explains in the UU VR discussion:

lets talk about the elephant in the room, Smogonbird itself. Now, this pokemon is not good. I see a lot of people trying it out and seeing some success but all in all, it is inferior to the other flying types in the tier. There is basically only one way to use Talonflame to moderate success. That being, is 252hp, 252spe, 4def. This set is specifically so that can utilise its bonkers high speed tier of 126, while being a usable wall. Immediately problems arise, however. Knock off is an OHKO move against you, which is not great for a physical wall whos claim to fame is flame body + being faster than . Roosting also makes you a pure fire type I.e weak to earthquake, so no roosting vs or unless you are feeling really risky. Using Talonflame on stall aliviates both of these to an extent, with stall stacking knock off switch ins, sometimes having multiple forms of removal/prevention of hazards, and other ground swap ins. Defog is also far more valuable for this type of team.

This largely sums up Talonflame in UU. I would not be surprised if Talonflame's usage started to drop off again after this month and it returns back to RU, where it was an integral part of the meta there.

I look forward to seeing how the meta develops during UUPL, UUFPL, and UU open.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Ou must have realized that we complained about HO, so therefore for the crimes of bullying RU they take away ogerpon and now make us suffer the full wrath of setup pokemon without having a fast encore to deal with them while getting nothing in return (no dondozo for full stall)

 

[Megastar54]

Ou must have realized that we complained about HO, so therefore for the crimes of bullying RU they take away ogerpon and now make us suffer the full wrath of setup pokemon without having a fast encore to deal with them while getting nothing in return (no dondozo for full stall)

Sinistcha is finally going to meet with its long lost cousin Polteageist in UUBL :)

 

[Bogamogo]

Few things can switch into boosted Sinistcha especially it thrives on hazard stack. You must know this Calm Mind set with Strength Sap that catches physical sweepers on the switch when you can't beat it with special sweepers. Immune to Sacred Sword too. And Psychic types have Psyshock but it hits you super effectively...At least we have Galarian Zapdos but seriously there's not enough in the tier that can stop it... you can revenge sure but it's annoying so be careful. And you think Blissey is gonna wall it but what can it do back? Skeledirge has Unaware so this might be an answer??

 

[scald spamm]

Few things can switch into boosted Sinistcha especially it thrives on hazard stack. You must know this Calm Mind set with Strength Sap that catches physical sweepers on the switch when you can't beat it with special sweepers. Immune to Sacred Sword too. And Psychic types have Psyshock but it hits you super effectively...At least we have Galarian Zapdos but seriously there's not enough in the tier that can stop it... you can revenge sure but it's annoying so be careful. And you think Blissey is gonna wall it but what can it do back? Skeledirge has Unaware so this might be an answer??

If you're having difficulty with sinistcha i recommend using hydreigon, it resists cha and is immune to spikes

other good ways to counter cha is stacking hazards on opponents side