Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread - (update on post #1193))

Some thoughts post SPL/OST that I wanted to share

:ogerpon: A- to A Tealpon has gained a lot of popularity in the last year / half year, all 3 of band, sd and hdb sets are very popular and good speed control which can both be strong pivots users that aim to clean in endgames or annoy opposing offenses with encore, but also strong wincons with band or sets like scope lens. I think it's a crucial mon on a lot of balanced structures hence why imo it deserves an upgrade

:ogerpon-wellspring: S- to A+, Idt anyone respects woger as much as I do and I think mon is Beyond broken, but I also think its been struggling in the last months, it has been often times outclassed by tealpon and it just has been struggling to annoy pecha + bird BO's, harder to trade into offenses, depending on moves risks being setup fodder for dnite/kyurem and opposing woger in screens

:iron-moth: B+ to A- Very unrespected mon IMO, I believe moth is a staple on offense as it's one of the 2 main poison mons u can fit there (stop loading weak to tspikes!!) which fits on standard offense, webs (the +SpA calcs are really cool, for example tera fairy can ohko 100% dnite after a fiery boost) and also on Sun, where it can also explore other sets like mbeam, specs, or just standard speed control to absorb tspikes and rkill valiant. Rkilling Valiant and Fairies is also nice on the other archetypes as offense tends to be weak to fighting/fairy moves, and in moth you also get a mon capable to rkill or chip zamazenta, and the mon itself can also start good offensive sequences, it forms a good core with other special attackers, overwhelming mons like glowking and ting, forcing dnite to lose Multiscale for its teammates, and it also has other qualities like being able to set tspikes itself and some underexplored sets like toxic/sub + msun.

:Garganacl: A to A-, I love Garg but I think its been struggling for way too much time now. Its structures just struggle to fit all the stuff you need without stacking weaknesses to common top tier mons. Its an amazing mon but I think most people respect it enough and even if they dont, with hazards pressure and the rilla/tealpon incresed usage in the last year, it just struggles to be a real threat and can even become a Weakness if the rocks set gets to allow glowking to freely pivot with FS up or allows mons like kyurem to sub. I think Curse and idbp are amazing sets but they aren't as common (especially since again, on common garg structures its very hard to find teammates that don't stack Weakness es) and I just think in this metagame it's not as prevalent, strong, or easy to build with as the other mons in A tier

:ursaluna: B to B+, Ursa is Beyond amazing, trading machine that can survive most of unboosted stabs (it can eat ivy from woger) and rkills pretty much everything. Its also spammable enough, it can be both braindead to use as it can switch in and threaten a kill vs mons like molt, pecha but also can reward good doubles. Incredible movepool as well, has both sd and bu for potential spdef lefties sets with stuff like drain punch, and it offers coverage of any type. With bulletproof it can also force the oppo to think twice before ursa reveals its Ability. It not being particularly weak to tspikes also is an advantage since on some offenses u can aim to ignore them if u have like, lead + dnite + steel + luna + fast booster + 1 weaker mon to tspikes that will help w speed, and it also is a good Ground option on teams that want to run rocks on glimm/deo/whatever creative mon like lead gambit. It also is a staple on TR, can even be ran in some semi tr teams with stuff like OTR hatte, but it also a niche option on stall and is a good screens abuser. I definetely think it deserves an upgrade due to its easy trading potential but also high rewarding play, and it also is not very hard to fit as it has amazing stats and cool type

:Zarude: C to C+ been performing well in Sun and has been increasing in value in random BO's, not a fan of the mon but it definetely feels less niche than the rest and it definetely deserves the C+ rank imo, and perhaps even B- if it continues being a popular pick in sun and if it start seeing even more usage in BO/Screens

:Kommo-o: C+ to B- Cool mon trust
 
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Finally I overcame the procrastination curse.

Rises

:pecharunt: A+ -> S-

Pecharunt has been a consistent force in the current meta. The amount of teambuilding stress that is relieved by throwing on a Pecharunt is immense. A physical wall, Wellspring check, Ghost, Tspike absorber, cleaner, pivot, you name it. After the return of NP variants it has seen a spike in usage within SPL and other previous tours. Toxic is nice tech to consistently land Poisons on Dnite and Tusk in situations where it’s Proc or Bust.

:deoxys_speed: A > A+

I would not rise Deo up here if it was just a Screens merchant but Deo has been the face of standard HO and Screens alike for months now. Deo has very much adapted to Hatt’s popularity with Skill Swap to guarantee hazards and punish team’s overreliance on Hatt to keep them off.

:iron_valiant: A -> A+

Val had enough of a break from A+, I feel ppl respect it less after its drop. Sure there is overlap with its checks, but if you forgo Encore for additional coverage it becomes a terminator. My personal fav is CM Moonblast/Tblast Ground/Tbolt which smokes all of Val’s checks, including Moth. It’s also still a key player on Offenses for keeping Bolt, Dnite, and Gambit in check with Encore.

:alomomola: A- > A

AV Mola is stupid. It never dies. Wellspring usage is not as high as it used to and Body Slam + just throwing on a Pech is more than enough to compensate for the poor MU.

:ogerpon: A- > A

Gonna second Mada’s nom. Fast Encore is impossible to undermine in a tier filled with so much volatile setup. SD is a sleeper pick that can clean lategame after checks have been weakened/killed. You could also force something like Zapdos into Roosting as you SD and then Encore for a 2nd SD which usually spells ggs. Adamant with Miracle Seed is very funny albeit greedy. You have a small odds of OHKOing Torn at full with +2 Tera Grass Cudgel.

:ninetales: B+ > A-

Sun has truly diversified during SPL. Now becoming the flavor of the month like Screens was in OLT. New Sun builds dropped that keep the archetype from being one dimensional Wake/Hatt/Bolt comps. AV Torn, Zarude, and Cress are some new faces that provide support via pivoting, stallbreaking, ground immune, etc. Also Sub-Three Attacks Wake is goated shit.

:volcanion: B > B+

Underrated trade machine. If you use Shuca, you can trade like 2-3 kills. Great offensive/defensive utility with Wisp and Water Absorb for Waterpon/Mola/Wake.

:weavile: B > B+

Another underrated OG. Forces Zama to burn Dauntless and lose its item. The best set is Band and the current environment of spinstacking is favoring it. Axel casually 2-shots Corv which is hillarious, and you can OHKO Ceru cause of Weak Armor’s properties with Multi-Hit moves which is hilarious. So you can rkill it as long as it didn’t get to +2 speed. CB Shard aligns well with Tera Fly Nite, Grasspon, Rilla, and Pult. It can also pivot into Kyu which is huge.

:barraskewda:/:pelipper: C+ > B-

Rain has some good relevant matchups and had a few sparse but surprisingly good performances during SPL.

:kommo-o: C+ > B-

Taunt Tblast Ghost goes stupid behind screens.

:zarude: C > B-

Zarude has been doing way more recently to justify joining the B- ranks. SD Tera Poison robs games as we’ve seen in SPL and in previous tour performances.

Drops

:ogerpon_wellspring: S- -> A+

The uptick of Grasspon/Pech on Balance has not done it favors. Neither does CC being more common on Tusk, limiting its switch in opportunities. Wellspring has shown to be less consistent in its role as a breaker. Its 4MSS has grown more apparent in recent months. As an example it sometimes wants Synthesis, but sacrifices a crucial coverage or utility option by doing so. Ironically making Wellspring easier to play around in the long game. Most teams nowadays just adapted to limiting Wellspring’s switch-ins rather than stressing over not having a longterm check. Ironically I’m more scared of seeing Rockpon on team preview than Wellspring. Still a good breaker and offensive utility mon tho.

:garganacl: A -> A-

The rise of Hatt, Covert Dnite, Hydrapple, and Grasspon has been a hinderance for Garganacl. Its lets the likes of Subtect Kyu and Gking do stuff for free.

:moltres: A -> A-

Out of the three (four if you count Torn) OU birds, Molt is the least consistent of them. Dies to Knock and Rocks which is a problem since a lot of what it checks carries this. Molt is also easy to exploit and lure with Tera Fire or surprise Rock coverage from shit like Tusk.

:keldeo: B- > C+

AV Torn and Mola send their regards.

Everything else the C rank idrc. Drop :entei:.
 
Seeing a lot of people make some noms and mostly everything I want to say has been said but I'd like to add onto a bit:
Mada said:
:ogerpon-wellspring: S- to A+, Idt anyone respects woger as much as I do and I think mon is Beyond broken, but I also think its been struggling in the last months, it has been often times outclassed by tealpon and it just has been struggling to annoy pecha + bird BO's, harder to trade into offenses, depending on moves risks being setup fodder for dnite/kyurem and opposing woger in screens
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Yea I super agree with this, it feels like it's been increasingly easier to fit checks onto a team for this mon (pech, Zapdos, drapple, tealpon, etc). It's also not too hard to out-offense it if you play right and don't give it entry points using mons like pult or Kyurem.
I do think it's still super solid. Taunt / knock / cudgel / filler (either spikes or u turn) feels like a solid set that lets it beat pech alot of the times, for example, and it can still trade very will with opposing mons using tera if needed.
658Greninja said:
:volcanion: B > B+

Underrated trade machine. If you use Shuca, you can trade like 2-3 kills. Great offensive/defensive utility with Wisp and Water Absorb for Waterpon/Mola/Wake.

:weavile: B > B+

Another underrated OG. Forces Zama to burn Dauntless and lose its item. The best set is Band and the current environment of spinstacking is favoring it. Axel casually 2-shots Corv which is hillarious, and you can OHKO Ceru cause of Weak Armor’s properties with Multi-Hit moves which is hilarious. So you can rkill it as long as it didn’t get to +2 speed. CB Shard aligns well with Tera Fly Nite, Grasspon, Rilla, and Pult. It can also pivot into Kyu which is huge.
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Really agree with both these. I've been playing with a bunch of volc and Weavile teams I made on higher ladder (~1825 range) and I just wanted to add that Volcanion is easily Evable and very solid on BO teams as its able to trade with literally anything you want it to. I also think removal spam structures (such as tusk + hatt as an example) enable this and Weavile so well.
There's not much more I want to add with Weavile besides that you can Tera Ghost on sd or even band sets if you'd like to randomly be able to check Dnite in a pinch. (I also feel like you could make the argument for Weavile to be A-.)

That being said I want to add some random noms myself because I'm bored and need to talk about the mons nonsense somewhere. (All my friends play nd )

:Okidogi: B- To B
I've experimented with this mon and hes a very solid progress maker with knock and potential poison chip, along with a solid check to stuff like ival, Darkrai, 4a za, kingambit, etc. it's not the most splashable pick but it's typing matches up very well into almost all the darks on the VR and it's also pretty easy to trade with opps if you position it correctly.

:excadrill: B To B+
This guy is obviously not used anywhere outside of sand but it is VERY solid there. Sub 2a spin is a very reliable spinner and can easily sub up on a multitude of mons in the tier, especially under sand. Tera ground even lets it 2hko tusk, making it not as big of a problem as one might suggest it is.

:Ogerpon-Cornerstone: B To B+
She has literally no switchins, besides Za, who gets knocked most of the time. It's also alot easier to beat Pech with this Pon, since it's not weak to malignant chain. Alot of times you can just force the pech ko (or at least damage it) if they don't confusion proc you.
It's obviously still got the same issues as base Pon but still, Sturdy existing means a lot of the times you can force a trade with stuff that really threaten your team like Ival, other pons, etc. (or just revenge kill it)

Some drops:

:Latios: B+ to B
Maybe I haven't been using this mon correctly but CM sets don't feel that strong considering that alot of times you're walled by the opps kgb, ttar, hatt, etc, or just mauled to death by the funny lil ghost dragon on their side.
Scarf sets are still decent and so are specs but it absolutely does not hold a candle to the other B+ mons.

Some stuff I just wanted to talk about, not necessarily drops / rises;

:Galarian Slowking: I'm not totally sure it deserves a drop but it does feel like it's been underperforming a bit. SD val sets and some cm val sets can get past this as a check alot easier. It also often competes with the honestly far better Pech for a slot on your team. AV mola and AV Torn also feel like better pivots sometimes.
It still does gking things but I'm not exactly sure if it deserves its current A rank.

:Skarmory: this should probably drop, it's not that great of a spikesetter and corv's uturn (and fog!) are so much better than this kind of nothingburger mon. It can't even get past tera ghost sweepers which are obviously very common.

:toxapex: kind of a similar sitch with this unfortunate creature. Can't even force progress besides like toxic which had a billion viable switchins. It kind of just sits there. One could argue it checks Pon but stuff like pech do it way better and aren't so useless against anything that clicks sub / is immune to toxic / has taunt.

I'm not the greatest player, I've only played (got haxxed in) a few tours and I occasionally peak like 40 on ladder but yea some random noms

Edit: idk why I put b+ for dogi
 
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Disclaimer: Everything is ordered within the tiers with pokemon on the left being the best and on the right being the worst.
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I am sure you probably have some questions on why I put some pokemon where I did so I will go through each tier accordingly.

S: The reason Dragonite is the only S tier and Zamazenta/Ting Lu are in S- is because while Zamazenta and Ting Lu are great pokemon I just think Dragonite is a (slight) cut above everything else thanks to set variety, multiscale, priority, etc. In comparison I don't really think Zamazenta and/or Ting Lu quite stack up the same way.

S-: Great Tusk and Gholdengo are the meta shaping threats they have always been, but I put Pecharunt in S- just below them because it has proven itself to be the best physical wall in the metagame with malignant chain and great support moves. I have seen some talk of moving Kingambit and especially Wogerpon down to A+, but I am still not sure personally if they should yet as both still play such important roles.

A+: The reason why Gliscor isn't here is because I felt that it competes with Ting Lu too much as a spike setter and its swords dance set is kind of mid. Other than that, Darkrai and Kyurem are staples as always.

A: There is nothing that different about this tier aside from Alomomola which I put here instead of A- because along with its wish set being good as always, its AV set has been great with new options such as body slam and mirror coat. I also briefly considered actually moving Raging Bolt to A- but I thought it was probably too low and settled for making it the worst mon in A.

A-: Rillaboom is probably too high, but it is still a solid mon since grassy terrain is still that useful. I think Torn T is overrated but it is good at what it does all things considered. I am not entirely sure how good regular Ogerpon is since I don't really use it or even see much of it, but I have heard that it is good and gaining speed when using tera is always going to lead to a good mon so I think this is a fair placement. I would usually put Walking Wake in B+, but it is actually finally seeing some innovation, so I have to give it some credit.

B+: Clefable is another pokemon that I think is overrated since its bulk is not usually enough this gen given all of the powercreep and moonlight is a bad recovery move (especially with the rise of Ttar). Wish is better but it requires you to sacrifice another moveslot for protect which limits your options. I put Weavile and Latios above B because I felt like they were a cut above the mons there given their strong STABs.

B: Ranking the sun setters felt a little difficult because it feels like they could realistically rank anywhere between A- and B but I put them here because it didn't feel right putting them among the mons in B+. I also don't think there is that big of a difference between Ninetales and Torkoal to rank them apart (though I did seriously consider it). Alolan Ninetales was a similar thought process but the reason I put it somewhat far above Grimmsnarl is because while it doesn't have as many support options or prankster it has encore and setting snow is always good to enable Kyurem. Hydrapple may be too low for some people, but Pecharunt is overall a better answer to Wogerpon in my opinion, and it is far easier to fit on a team.

B-: I don't really use sun very much so maybe I ranked it too low but whenever I play against Slither Wing it doesn't do much. I think Zapdos-Galar is an underrated pokemon because of thunderous kick being so useful but maybe I am biased because I made a team with it using protective pads as its item.

C+/C: I don't really care to talk about any of the mons here but there are some here that I like such as Serperior, Manaphy, Kommo-O, and Jirachi.

I don't care about anything below C, and I probably shouldn't have even done that tier lol.
 
UltraSword said:
B: Ranking the sun setters felt a little difficult because it feels like they could realistically rank anywhere between A- and B but I put them here because it didn't feel right putting them among the mons in B+. I also don't think there is that big of a difference between Ninetales and Torkoal to rank them apart (though I did seriously consider it).
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Tales is definitely a better sun setter than tork. While it doesn't have the bulk, rocks, or spin, the latter two are very easy to cover with tusk, a sun staple. Ninetales offers much more utility such as encore to stop setup, faster wisp, and healing wish for emergency pivoting / revival of a teammate.
 
ScribeofRevocis said:
Tales is definitely a better sun setter than tork. While it doesn't have the bulk, rocks, or spin, the latter two are very easy to cover with tusk, a sun staple. Ninetales offers much more utility such as encore to stop setup, faster wisp, and healing wish for emergency pivoting / revival of a teammate.
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Yeah, that is fair. Maybe next time I will seperate them more. I still don't think Ninetales is above B though.
 
True. Gamefreak please give more pokemon encore and healing wish
ScribeofRevocis said:
Tales is definitely a better sun setter than tork. While it doesn't have the bulk, rocks, or spin, the latter two are very easy to cover with tusk, a sun staple. Ninetales offers much more utility such as encore to stop setup, faster wisp, and healing wish for emergency pivoting / revival of a teammate.
Click to expand...
 
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