- Mediocre spinner that is incredibly reliant on keeping it's boots
- It's only offensive mode is the very telegraphed Tera Fight + iPress
- Brutalized by every common specs user
- Cannot reasonably pressure spinblockers
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Resource NU Viability Rankings
- Thread starter etern
- Start date
Also a Tera Hog bc Pure Ice type is a terrible defensive type, only time Avalugg is used is in Stall teams with Chansey; acting as an Ice version of Skarmory I guess. (Skarmbliss)
All things considered it's not that insane - Avalugg has been NU this generation longer than any other mon. Its honestly more surprising that he's held on this long, but that can be attributed to no other mon really filling its niche as a catch-all physical wall with both recovery and removal. The main issue imo is APOGRAPHA's last point - Avalugg is pretty darn bad at its main job of spinning, as it completely lacks the ability to pressure Houndstone, gets walled out by Strength Sap Brambleghast, can't fit coverage for Basculegion, and has to predict Chandelure's entry with Earthquake while being forced to switch out versus one of the tier's scariest breakers. At least it checks DD Flygon...
igh bruh no BS whens the next VR update, its been damn near 2 months since the last one and we really need to have consistent VR updates like weave had last year
Tier shifts happen in like 6 days - after a week or two of the resulting meta we will likely do a full slate.
To be fair the meta in most of the tiers has settled down. We're now in our 4th full year of Gen 9 so some players have burnt out and want something new (Champions). As a result of that, overall activity in the threads has settled down as well, hence the long gap between VR updates. Hope this helps
Ok need someone to go in depth into how lucario got banned cause i play both NU and RU and lucario is one of the worst mons in the tier. In fact literally anyone B rank and above in NU is doing better than it. So i need ask specifically who plays both NU and RU and what makes lucario so oppresive in NU and how it doesn't translate to RU
RU is a whole different power level from NU, and is filled with sweepers that are more threatening than Lucario, while also having access to more defensive checks to Lucario (like Slowbro). For the time that Lucario was around in NU, Swords Dance + Tera Normal Extremespeed was extremely threatening in game and pretty much mandated that your fast mons run Tera Ghost to answer it. This ability to consistently force out Tera in the majority of games it was used was deemed too effective of a tool for Hyper Offense teams, which ruled the meta. Add in the option to run viable special sets with Nasty Plot and Lucario was simply too much for NU to handle. Strength doesn't usually translate between tiers as the metagames surrounding the pokemon are vastly different. Take Dragalge for instance: it was deemed too powerful a breaker in PU, but NU happens to have plenty of tools to both wall and revenge kill it, and it remains unranked on the VR.
Would also like to add as somebody who plays both RU and NU, but the speed tiers in RU are a lot higher, Pokemon such as Mienshao, Gengar, Talonflame, Noivern etc are all prominent Pokemon there, and thus Lucario needs to utilise Tera Normal Espeed a lot more, which on its own isn't too super impactful. Combine that with a lot more base 100's like Entei and Jirachi that can stomach +2 espeed even, and you cannot really effectively smash through teams as much as you can do.
Adding onto the defensive counterplay part as well, for RU standards 110 base attack is not especially impressive, and thus Lucario typically requires a Life Orb to actually do solid damage. Here are some calcs to showcase this:
+2 252 Atk Tera Normal Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 265-313 (71.4 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Chesnaught: 226-267 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is pretty bad damage all things considered, and thus, you have to run LO, which heavily cuts into your longevity and makes you a lot easier to revenge kill by faster mons once you have been chipped down.
For NU standards, 110 base attack is pretty fine all things considered, the defensive walls are a good bit worse and the offensive Pokemon are slower and frailer and thus you don't have to rely on Tera or even clicking Espeed as much. When stuff like Slowbro was NU, Lucario was contentious but ultimately balanced. When they rose, there simply wasn't as many walls to it before and thus it got banned.
Adding onto the defensive counterplay part as well, for RU standards 110 base attack is not especially impressive, and thus Lucario typically requires a Life Orb to actually do solid damage. Here are some calcs to showcase this:
+2 252 Atk Tera Normal Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 265-313 (71.4 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Chesnaught: 226-267 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is pretty bad damage all things considered, and thus, you have to run LO, which heavily cuts into your longevity and makes you a lot easier to revenge kill by faster mons once you have been chipped down.
For NU standards, 110 base attack is pretty fine all things considered, the defensive walls are a good bit worse and the offensive Pokemon are slower and frailer and thus you don't have to rely on Tera or even clicking Espeed as much. When stuff like Slowbro was NU, Lucario was contentious but ultimately balanced. When they rose, there simply wasn't as many walls to it before and thus it got banned.
NU has 0 ghost mons that are naturally faster than it, (and commonly used) while RU has Gengar and Mimikyu which are common.
NU has 0 Unaware mons, Quaggy does really well into non-balloon variants.
Also want to point out that Lucario isn't one of the worst mons in the tier, it's in C rank in the VR thread so I'm sure there's atleast some merit to that mon.
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Some last-second noms for the current slate:
Flamigo A+ -> S
It feels like 90% of builds can be "fixed" by adding a scarf flamigo. It is one of the best mons for role compression, late game cleaning, breaking, knock absorbing, pivoting, and it's hazard-resistant to boot. No more Toxt is also a blessing for our feathered friend.
Incineroar A+ -> S
He does it all. He's a great defensive pivot AND progress maker. He even checks the fearsome Incineroar.
Tornadus A- -> A
One of the tier's absolute best special breaksers, it can tech all sorts of coverage for whatever your team needs. Also Tailwind cores with mons like Basculegion are quite good. Physical sets are cool, as are mixed breakers with Knock Off.
Scrafty A- -> B+
Not really meta anymore. It hates losing leftovers, so it makes for a poor Knock absorber, and its raw bulk is a bit underwhelming.
Bellibolt B+ -> A-
I laid out the reasons why Bellibolt is so good on a metagame post, but it basically boils down to: no Toxt good, lots of Flamgo good. I think he was already here before the shift tbh. Also it sponges hits from Duraludon pretty well!
Brute Bonnet B -> B+
Good breaker and anti-offense for offense teams. Like really good.
Flamigo A+ -> SIt feels like 90% of builds can be "fixed" by adding a scarf flamigo. It is one of the best mons for role compression, late game cleaning, breaking, knock absorbing, pivoting, and it's hazard-resistant to boot. No more Toxt is also a blessing for our feathered friend.
Incineroar A+ -> SHe does it all. He's a great defensive pivot AND progress maker. He even checks the fearsome Incineroar.
Tornadus A- -> AOne of the tier's absolute best special breaksers, it can tech all sorts of coverage for whatever your team needs. Also Tailwind cores with mons like Basculegion are quite good. Physical sets are cool, as are mixed breakers with Knock Off.
Scrafty A- -> B+Not really meta anymore. It hates losing leftovers, so it makes for a poor Knock absorber, and its raw bulk is a bit underwhelming.
Bellibolt B+ -> A-I laid out the reasons why Bellibolt is so good on a metagame post, but it basically boils down to: no Toxt good, lots of Flamgo good. I think he was already here before the shift tbh. Also it sponges hits from Duraludon pretty well!
Brute Bonnet B -> B+Good breaker and anti-offense for offense teams. Like really good.
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One more last second nom
UR Get this garbage bird out of my tier, pu can use it.
UR Get this garbage bird out of my tier, pu can use it.Rhyperior claims a kill, if Zapdos in UU was what caused Rhy to rise in UU (Before Zap rose to OU bc people realized it checks Fighters & Ogrepon W decently), then Zap’s little cousin in NU stands no chance.One more last second nom
Not knowledgeable on the tier after DLC but imagine Inteleon will probably rise to B Tier with Barraskewda going off to RU.
Main things you lose is not threatening chipped Vaporeon directly, alongside being slower than Kilowattrel and maybe some scarfers. U Turn always be the stuff of legends tho, don't have to commit vs a Water Immunity all the time.
Main things you lose is not threatening chipped Vaporeon directly, alongside being slower than Kilowattrel and maybe some scarfers. U Turn always be the stuff of legends tho, don't have to commit vs a Water Immunity all the time.