Metagame Champions OU Metagame Discussion

:gengar-mega:
I don't think I have to explain why this thing is broken as hell. Even if it loses Encore, Shadow Tag is absurdly oppressive for this tier so far, especially since the defensive options are looking pretty dire. Being able to pick off anything slower and without priority with its solid coverage (i.e Thunder for Toxapex and Corviknight, Focus Blast for Hisuian Goodra and Mega Tyranitar, Icy Wind even for Mega Dragonite or something), or using some stupid set like Sub + Disable, Will-O-Wisp + Hex, or fuck it even Destiny Bond, its almost guaranteed a kill per game assuming the opposing 6 isn't just faster than it. Should probably be quickbanned after a few days if not on the first day. By the way wasn't Shadow Tag buffed? Doesn't Mega Gengar literally block switches as it Mega Evolves? Yeah fuck that.

:blastoise-mega:
If it gets a Shell Smash, we might be FINISHED. There's not many reliable checks to it considering how wide its movepool is. Does Slowking check it? Dark Pulse. Do Dragon-types check it? Dragon Pulse and Ice Beam. Does Hisuian Goodra check it? Aura Sphere. It's main limitation is 4MSS especially since its so naturally bulky that a lot of priority users cannot kill it without significant chip damage. It also outspeeds everything barring Choice Scarf Meowscarada and Ditto, so trying to revenge-kill it is a nightmare. There probably are some checks to it though. SpD Toxapex and Milotic can get rid of boosts, Mega Meganium can eat a boosted Ice Beam and actually kill back this time with Solar Beam, SpD Mega Chesnaught can also do this (although not running +Def is suspicious I think). I still think its broken though. But not Mega Gengar broken.

:basculegion: :espathra:
We understand that currently, private games do not allow for 6v6 in Pokemon Champions. However, we understand that people want a 6v6 environment of the new megas/mechanics/moves changes/etc., so we're going to simulate the non-in-game formats as 6v6. This change will not impact any BSS/VGC formats implemented onto Pokemon showdown.
300-BP Last Respects + Stored Power cheese. Billions must use Dark-types. Could probably not be broken considering how one-dimensional they are but they're definitely not fun to play against.

:lucario-mega: :greninja-mega: :alakazam-mega: :starmie-mega: :lopunny-mega:
These two are still really good even though they still have good counters. Mega Lucario hits like a nuke, and even though Slowbro and Toxapex exist it can still muscle past them with Swords Dance + coverage if needed. Mega Greninja with Protean and an insane movepool would make it quite difficult to check reliably, especially if it keeps Nasty Plot. Speaking of which, Mega Alakazam is still absurdly fast and strong, although not having a Psychic Terrain setter is going to sting a little bit. Mega Starmie is a bit like Mega Lucario where it could potentially muscle past its checks like Slowbro and Mega Meganium. There's also Mega Lopunny possibly being busted if it keeps Swords Dance. I was also going to include Mega Kangaskhan, but unless it gets Seismic Toss back, its probably washed.

:kingambit:
I think everyone is sleeping on how useful Kingambit is going to be. It handles all these funky Psychic- and Ghost-types like Mega Alakazam and Basculegion, it has strong priority with Supreme Overlord (6v6 remember), and can be fitted on a wide range of teams from HO to just balance. The ability to reverse sweep is going to be very nice to ensure offense teams can't just stack frail sweepers and try to win just like that, even without Terastalization to abuse.

:araquanid: :hatterene: :charizard-mega-y: :tyranitar-mega:
Speaking of HO, Sticky Web leads and Trick Room setters are available, two pretty good ones at that. This could potentially open up some Pokemon such as Mega Feraligatr and Ceruledge (on webs), or Mega Camerupt and Conkeldurr (on TR). There's also Mega Charizard Y and Mega Tyranitar, who can all offer semi-Sun and Sand structures with things such as base Venusaur and base Excadrill respectively. The lack of Damp Rock hurts Pelipper a lot though. There is also Mega Froslass, but the lack of Light Clay and actual Snow abusers hurts it a lot too.

:gliscor:
no toxic orb LMFAOOOOOOO
 
https://www.serebii.net/pokemonchampions/megaabilities.shtml
New ZA Mega's abilities for those who want it. Really hope we get tours for champions soon.
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It's never been more joever
 
Skarmory-Mega
- Bad Ability
- Great Stats
- Great Pre Mega ability
- Decent Typing
Min: RUBL Max: OU
Starmie-Mega
- Mawile with good stats
- Decent Typing
- Dies to the Kingambit Epidemic
- 4 Move Syndrome
- Powerful
Min: UUBL Max: Ubers
Victreebel-mega
- seriously?
- gimmicky
- bulky tho
Min: RU Max: UU
Clefable-Mega
- Exists
- Good movepool
- Decent Typing
- Good niche rn, no diancie and more diverse than hatterene + sark resist
Min: UUBL Max: OU
Glimmora-Mega
-great ability
-decent typing
- good stats
- well rounded
Min: UUBL Max: OU
Excadrill-Mega
- Sad Day.
- Decent abolity
- typing is great
- base excadrill will be better
Min: RUBL Max: OU
Golurk-Mega
- Potentialmon 2.0 but slow
- yooo unseen fist
- nvm
- CB golurk will hit harder with headlong rush
-uses the ability better than excadrill, worse than urshifu
Min: RUBL Max: OU
 
Skarmory-Mega
- Bad Ability
- Great Stats
- Great Pre Mega ability
- Decent Typing
Min: RUBL Max: OU
Starmie-Mega
- Mawile with good stats
- Decent Typing
- Dies to the Kingambit Epidemic
- 4 Move Syndrome
- Powerful
Min: UUBL Max: Ubers
Victreebel-mega
- seriously?
- gimmicky
- bulky tho
Min: RU Max: UU
Clefable-Mega
- Exists
- Good movepool
- Decent Typing
- Good niche rn, no diancie and more diverse than hatterene + sark resist
Min: UUBL Max: OU
Glimmora-Mega
-great ability
-decent typing
- good stats
- well rounded
Min: UUBL Max: OU
Excadrill-Mega
- Sad Day.
- Decent abolity
- typing is great
- base excadrill will be better
Min: RUBL Max: OU
Golurk-Mega
- Potentialmon 2.0 but slow
- yooo unseen fist
- nvm
- CB golurk will hit harder with headlong rush
-uses the ability better than excadrill, worse than urshifu
Min: RUBL Max: OU
are we ditching no guard and running iron fist with headlong+drain? headlong does get the boost
 
The only changes that should be allowed compared to the Champions game is 6v6 and the Endless Battle Clause.

For me, the Item Clause must be respected as it is in Champions; this will finally allow us to know if this Clause is good or not in 6v6, not just through theory, but through practice. It's a shame so many items are missing.

(And lmaooooo, poor Mega-Skarmory...)

Question: What about allowing Sleep? The status effect has been nerfed, but will probably remain too powerful if it's possible to put multiple targets to sleep. Will we still try it, or will it be banned outright? I don't think we can reinstate the Sleep Clause, because it's a complex ban that's outdated.
it is quite literally impossible to have multiple of the same item, so i dont see why item clause shouldn't be implemented its 100% a mechanic of the game and you cant get around it
 
if what you want is a game with all of the pokemon and its 6v6 singles and there's all the items there is a format for that, we don't need to go further into the abyss of making shit up for this format

one could argue that we're already making shit up because no 6v6 singles in-game so why not go further, but its not like OU has been playing with the 20 min timer that (effectively) makes 99% of SWSH and like 90% of SV OU battles
impossible

i think we can accept the bare minimum to make the format possible, but none of that other stuff is needed, its just trying to conform it to something you already know you like
 
I'd have been okay with the timer being implemented in previous generations and I think the main reason it wasn't is because of move animations taking different time making it impractical to implement.

I would like this to be as true to the game as possible with 6v6 added. I'm going to try playing BSS unless it's BS. Too much deviation from the game and it's a pet mod that I'm not too interested in.

I'm at work and don't get to play champions until maybe a little this evening but pretty excited. Is anyone playing yet with anything cool to know
 
Much like in the VGC format right now, I believe that we shouldn't even test Pokémon that are broken in rain and generally far surpass other options like Palafin and Archaludon as I think even without Damp Rock they would be broken and cause rain to be overcentralising. To be honest though, even without weather those two are far stronger than anything else in the tier. Much like ZA OU I think Mega Blastoise, Zam, Gengar, Kangaskhan and Lucario will be too strong.

For my predictions of the metagame and ideas for concepts that will be strong, it would be impossible not to start off with weather synergies. Zard Y + Venu, Pelipper + Basculegion, maybe Ninetales-A + Beartic could even be a niche pick. In every early meta weather is always very powerful but I think in a weaker metagame like this, this is accentuated twofold. No weather extending items is interesting though and make this playstyle somewhat flawed in a way and setters can't even choose HDB either and will take hefty damage from Stealth Rock on switch in.

As for Megas, a lot of them look promising but my eyes are on Zard Y, Sableye, Starmie, Lopunny and Meganium as the strongest choices I think will be allowed. Honestly, maybe Sableye-Mega could end up being banned due to being too good with stallier teammates like Toxapex who enjoy a much weaker metagame.

Regarding general Pokémon which will be good I believe it will be much the same as ZA OU and incorporate opportunity cost in the same way. This being the idea that something like Dragonite-Mega or Greninja-Mega aren't worth it due to being top tier in their base forms whilst you can make a weaker Pokémon top tier like Lopunny with its mega form.

:Gyarados: Can run a more defensive set like in ZA OU but could also be a good surprise sweeper

:vaporeon::slowking: :slowking-galar: Great defensive pivots much like in ZA OU with great counters to weather with the former two resisting water, fire and ice and Slowking being able to effectively disable it with Chilly Reception

:corviknight: :skarmory: Great walls with the former having a pivoting option, good hazard removers will be extremely important as well as Flying-types with Rock-type neutrality

:garchomp: Will likely be THE rocks setter (with Glimmora being second) and THE Ground-type, much like ZA OU I believe this will be the best Pokémon and most used

:scizor: Good in many roles with solid offense, good typing, priority and access to Defog

:dragonite: :weavile: :volcarona: :greninja: :aegislash: :primarina: :dragapult: :sneasler: :meowscarada: :maushold: :ceruledge: :glimmora: :kingambit: While writing this is actually a lot better Pokémon than I expected, but these are a group of guys who seem great at overwhelming defences. Dragonite will be exceptional I think with its variety of sets and I think that will make its mega seem lacklustre due to its strength in base, the same going for Greninja who doesn't really gain anything

:clefable: :umbreon: :forretress: :hippowdon: :gliscor: :talonflame: :goodra-hisui: :gourgeist: :toxapex: :hatterene: :skeledirge: :garganacl: :sinistcha: :hydrapple: More defensive guys I can see being good with Gourgeist being potential mon due to being able to spin block though it might just be my experience with old ZA OU blinding me. As for Gliscor, I think calling it a defensive mon in this metagame is fitting due to not having status boosted Facade due to the loss of Toxic Orb— this also makes him a lot worse in general

:excadrill: THE spinner

My bad if this post is a bit messy, it is hard to organise your thoughts and put Pokémon into categories for a metagame that basically doesn't exist yet, I recommend anyone stuck on building to note this as I think it can really help okay thank you bye.

If I missed anyone who you think is cool let me know, I want this post to be a somewhat introductory guide to the metagame and also something I and others can look back to.
 
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I'm against Champions OU being 6v6. I'm not questioning that 6v6 is (probably) better, but I have no interest in playing a literal fanfic meta for a fantasy version of Champions that doesn't exist. If we're gonna engage in blatant larping, then I'd much rather play a "Champions Plus" format with more pokemon, more items and maybe even custom nerfs and buffs. It's not logically consistent to selectively mod in only 6v6 and not continue modding the game further. The moment you start larping in mechanics that don't exist in official software, you open this format to being criticized for not fixing everything wrong with the game. This format looks DOA either way, let it have a peaceful death like BDSP and LGPE OU
 
You know for a minute I thought that maybe Mega Clefable might actually be good given the limited dex but then I realized that Excadrill exists who not only easily 1v1s Mega Clefable but also sets stealth rock for free. Sure there is also Garchomp who is better at hazard stacking in general and that gets beaten by Mega Clefable but also why not run both? Garchomp has spikes so Excadrill can set rocks and Garchomp can set spikes. Or if don't want to go through the trouble just use rock slide on Garchomp and that will also do solid damage to Mega Clefable.
 
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You know for a minute I thought that maybe Mega Clefable might actually be good given the limited dex but then I realized that Excadrill exists who not only easily 1v1s Mega Clefable but also sets stealth rock for free. Sure there is also Garchomp who is better at hazard stacking in general and that gets beaten by Mega Clefable but also why not run both? Garchomp got spikes so Excadrill can set rocks and Garchomp can set spikes. Or if don't want to go through the trouble just use rock slide on Garchomp and that will also do solid damage to Mega Clefable.
Base Clef is stronger imho. No weak to rocks + both of her abilities are strong in the meta: Magic Guard for all the hazard and Unaware for setup mons life Mstoise and such

Also both Hat and Msableye are better at "bouncing"
 
Base Clef is stronger imho. No weak to rocks + both of her abilities are strong in the meta: Magic Guard for all the hazard and Unaware for setup mons life Mstoise and such
I completely agree especially since there are no heavy duty boots so having magic guard to switch into hazards is much more important/useful. Sure it also loses to Excadrill but it can at least come back in way easier than Mega Clefable.

Speaking of Excadrill, I wanted to mention this in my last post but I forgot to so I will just say it now. I think Excadrill will at the very least be a top tier in Champions OU for similar reasons as in Legends ZA OU since it is not only the only (good) spinner but it is also great offensively and while it doesn't have the most amazing bulk it was fine in gen 6 OU where it has a similar role and (imo) is the best mon in the tier. Tyranitar is even here so Excadrill can run sand rush to become even more offensively potent.
 
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