-
Follow our Instagram!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame Champions OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter dhelmise
- Start date
Oh I forgot about Lucario lmao, and Alakazam might be fine? I don't know honestly, I guess SpD Corvi etc can keep it in check?
Unless you're talking about a different patch or announcement I've missed, that patch's already come out and this player's observations were precisely post-patch for that reason.
iirc the news in game has a list of issues they patched
edit: speaking of which, since this is the first time smogon is dealing with this kind of thing, it'd probably be wise to have a thread with updates made to the game and information about what is implemented into the simulator
this can get quirky really fast
nowhere near qualified to give a proper answer to this but since no one answered this, I'll at least give you somewhat of an answer. Technically we don't know when they will be done with adding the new stuff (other than it will take up to about a week max per the discord). But since blunder knows a lot of the staff, he might have some sort of insider knowledge; but this seems somewhat unlikely. I'd chalk it up to an educated guess more than anything
Last edited:
Agree, just wanna wrap this up in particular here if you guys don't mind. This is from the translated statement that was posted by the official Japanese Champions Twitter account after they finished maintenance. The English account wasn't exactly clear about what was fixed, they just went "We will be investigating these during maintenance" and "Maintenance complete" without specifying what they had or had not fixed, so can't exactly blame anyone lol
The sentence I highlighted is in the Fixed defects section rather than the first one, so it's safe to assume it was indeed fixed (or should've at least). If any of you guys reading this could confirm with a few quick private matches that'd be great.
Hey, if you have the game and want to help speed up development, you can do so by helping testing or referring mechanics. There are more questions in the thread, but I've been gathering them here.
Hello everynyan! In this post i’m going to talk about my thoughts on the current and the upcoming meta!
The ladder rating above is from the Pre-Champions OU tier; this tier is basically the real thing! There are a few minor differences, like the fact that there is no Item Clause, Shed Tail is illegal, and we are playing at Level 100 instead of Level 50, but the movesets, abilities, and items are all updated! Overall, this meta is fundamentally the same, so I feel my experience here translates well.
Let's start then!
I want to start by talking about the direction the council wants to take the tier, because honestly, I already disagree with it LOL. I am all for testing Pokémon like Mega Gengar and Mega Blastoise in this meta. We can definitely keep them around for a couple of days to see how they do. But let's not kid ourselves, these mons are going to be broken. I have read so many justifications explaining how they are going to be "fine" this time around. No, they won't be. This has been proven time and time again. We can test them 100%, but it's almost certain that they will be way too strong for the tier.
I feel the exact same way about Palafin and Sneasler. Yes, they don't have Tera anymore, but lacking Tera won't make them any less OP. They are both snowballing monsters. We can definitely test them for a week, but having already played against them and with them on the ladder, they feel beyond broken LMFAO.
Because of the insane power creep, offense is INCREDIBLY strong right now. Any balance team is hard-carried by Mega Gengar, and "fat" structures are almost completely unusable. For at least the first few weeks, while all the brokens are legal, I fully believe there will be almost no place for fat teams. There are about 10 Pokémon right now that feel like actual Legendaries compared to the rest of the tier. Maybe after we ban like 12 mons, there will be some hope for fat? Maybe?
But honestly, if the tier forces Item Clause and we lose the ability to use multiple copies of Leftovers, I don't think there is any hope for bulky teams anyway. (I spammed HO for all 50 of my games). I have already said before that I am not in favor of Item Clause, but it is what it is. Hopefully, the council change their minds on it, but I kinda feel like all hope is lost on that front.
Haha anyway! I made a Megas tier list! I am not making a full meta tier list because it’s way too much work LOL. Take it my children.
Last edited:
Beedrill not being in the absolute worst tier is a W!
Beedrill funnily benefits from being a fast revenge killer with a lot of fast dark/psychic/fairies around.
Even drill run hits a few things like glimmora and gengar.
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Delphox-Mega: 254-300 (87.2 - 103%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie-Mega: 328-388 (125.6 - 148.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Beedrill-Mega Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar-Mega: 234-276 (89.6 - 105.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja-Mega: 424-500 (148.7 - 175.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
With some chip;
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny-Mega: 204-242 (75.2 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 238-280 (80.1 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Beedrill-Mega Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure-Mega: 180-212 (68.9 - 81.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 240-284 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Don't need to really show what it does to meganium/glimmora with drill run/floette/gardevoir etc.
Unironically if you run hazards control it puts in some work either as a u-turn spammer or just being a guaranteed revenge kill with its speed tier outpacing most non-priority (alakazam is an exception). I don't think you'll get a sword's dance up reliably and fell stinger is just gimmicky troll shit but its far from dogshit when you look past the lens of 'haha please don't use beedrill aren't we funny naming a set that'. You just obviously can't switch it in cause it does have paper defenses but... those are pretty paper too lol.
When megagross and lando comes back yeah gl lol..
Even drill run hits a few things like glimmora and gengar.
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Delphox-Mega: 254-300 (87.2 - 103%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie-Mega: 328-388 (125.6 - 148.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Beedrill-Mega Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar-Mega: 234-276 (89.6 - 105.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja-Mega: 424-500 (148.7 - 175.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
With some chip;
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny-Mega: 204-242 (75.2 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 238-280 (80.1 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Beedrill-Mega Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure-Mega: 180-212 (68.9 - 81.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 240-284 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Don't need to really show what it does to meganium/glimmora with drill run/floette/gardevoir etc.
Unironically if you run hazards control it puts in some work either as a u-turn spammer or just being a guaranteed revenge kill with its speed tier outpacing most non-priority (alakazam is an exception). I don't think you'll get a sword's dance up reliably and fell stinger is just gimmicky troll shit but its far from dogshit when you look past the lens of 'haha please don't use beedrill aren't we funny naming a set that'. You just obviously can't switch it in cause it does have paper defenses but... those are pretty paper too lol.
When megagross and lando comes back yeah gl lol..
Last edited:
turns out being one of the two fastest Pokemon in the game gives it a major advantage
Ok so
Item clause is not up for debate as it is literally built into the actual game this time. You simply cannot obtain more than one of each item so in order to accurately simulate champions mechanics item clause needs to be enforced. It is not a matter of preference.
“But what about modding the game to support 6v6 play?” Yes, we are doing this to make a smogon style format available with champions mechanics, however the goal of a simulator first and foremost is accuracy. It is the reason sleep clause has been done away with in favor of outright banning sleep inducing moves in modern generations. Offense is heavily favored right now (and it always has been in some respect in console formats) but that is quite literally baked into the game we are aiming to simulate and changing that would be fundamentally altering the games mechanics, which is out of the question.
(Mega)So UNFORTUNATELY Mega Scovillain did not end up getting any kind of Recovery move like Synthesis or Morning Sun in Champions.
Still though, Spicy Spray is still a powerful ability. We saw how strong Cramorant was in Hackmons being able to paralyze Pokemon that even touched it
Anyone know what the best Stall Pokemon are currently available? Stall seems like the playstyle that suits Mega Scovillain the best. It burns things that hit it, while its teammates help keep it alive.
Hopefully in a future update, they give Scovillain Synthesis and Dragon Tail so it can become a real terror.
Metagame pre- highlight:
Mega Aerodactyl
252/4/252+ (if that’s still how it works)
Role 1: Major Offensive Threat
Mega-Aerodactyl finds itself in an elite speed tier, it outspeeds the fastest unboosted threats in both OU and NatdexOU, and with this isolated metagame it’s able to earn itself a key role.
With a decent movepool, and elite statspread, Aerodactyl finds itself dominating some of your least favorite metagame staples, with stone edge it can pick up OHKOs on both Char Y and X, Pinsir-Mega, Heracross-Mega, Gyarados and a crit can do serious damage to Dragonite. Earthquake/Iron Head helps it against Tyranitar-Mega, Kinggambit, Hatterene, Ninetails-Alola, Froslass-Mega, Floette-Mega, Dual Wingbeat gives it opportunities to nuclearize any Lopunny player expecting to outspeed your team, as well as Beedrill. It also helps against some grass types that would otherwise be annoying like Venusaur-Mega. Lastly, Crunch helps annihilate things like Ceruledge, Dragapult, and Gengar, Mega or Not. If one of those moves are not needed, you can run stealth rocks or roost to heal up or set up hazards if needed
Aero definently struggles with rain teams and bulky waters in general, but luckily the pool of said pokemon is not too large, and swift swimmmers are very limited.
Role 2: Offensive Utility
In this set, Aero is our favorite fast lead, with Taunt/Defog, Stealth Rocks, Roost and a choice of stab Aerodactyl becomes a great offensive utility mon able to sort of replicate the job that Deoxys-S already holds in SVOU, being able to threaten with offensive pressure whilst setting up long lasting damage in its hazards, now equipped with the ability to heal up to recover after switching in for a possible turn to defog. Taunt helps shut down some early hazard setters as well, like Glimmora or Excadrill. Sadly, samurott-hisui is detrimental to this set, as aerodactyls possible longevity is non existent in tha case. Regardless, fast hard hitting mon with great utility = good.
Mega Aerodactyl
252/4/252+ (if that’s still how it works)
Role 1: Major Offensive Threat
Mega-Aerodactyl finds itself in an elite speed tier, it outspeeds the fastest unboosted threats in both OU and NatdexOU, and with this isolated metagame it’s able to earn itself a key role.
With a decent movepool, and elite statspread, Aerodactyl finds itself dominating some of your least favorite metagame staples, with stone edge it can pick up OHKOs on both Char Y and X, Pinsir-Mega, Heracross-Mega, Gyarados and a crit can do serious damage to Dragonite. Earthquake/Iron Head helps it against Tyranitar-Mega, Kinggambit, Hatterene, Ninetails-Alola, Froslass-Mega, Floette-Mega, Dual Wingbeat gives it opportunities to nuclearize any Lopunny player expecting to outspeed your team, as well as Beedrill. It also helps against some grass types that would otherwise be annoying like Venusaur-Mega. Lastly, Crunch helps annihilate things like Ceruledge, Dragapult, and Gengar, Mega or Not. If one of those moves are not needed, you can run stealth rocks or roost to heal up or set up hazards if needed
Aero definently struggles with rain teams and bulky waters in general, but luckily the pool of said pokemon is not too large, and swift swimmmers are very limited.
Role 2: Offensive Utility
In this set, Aero is our favorite fast lead, with Taunt/Defog, Stealth Rocks, Roost and a choice of stab Aerodactyl becomes a great offensive utility mon able to sort of replicate the job that Deoxys-S already holds in SVOU, being able to threaten with offensive pressure whilst setting up long lasting damage in its hazards, now equipped with the ability to heal up to recover after switching in for a possible turn to defog. Taunt helps shut down some early hazard setters as well, like Glimmora or Excadrill. Sadly, samurott-hisui is detrimental to this set, as aerodactyls possible longevity is non existent in tha case. Regardless, fast hard hitting mon with great utility = good.
Great read, I was also around top 10 for that ladder[altho haven't played it in a minute] and I think the point being made about bulkier structures is 100% correct. The problem is that without items like AV, Boots, helm and only 1 lefties, bulkier structures have significant less longevity than normal.
A counterargument can be made that the lack of specs and band balances it out, but I think high powered mons in general will put that to the test.
This is all left for speculation as this isn't the real thing yet, but from my experience asw offense is pretty much king.
I think the only broken you'd be fine to test is mega starmie and maybe mega zam if u wanna spice it up[hard maybe].
But I would just prefer if mons like mega Luke left day 1, I think its physically impossible for those typa mons to be balanced ngl. Espically with our limited dex.
After the dust settles tho it will be intresting to see if our speculations hold up. Nice post!
Where is Sneasler on this Tier List? And don’t give me that “it’s not a Mega tho” crap. It’s an (dis)honorary Mega that shouldn’t have been made and mogs the vast majority of other Megas.
AND WE ARE GOING LIVE!
Edit: anytime now.
We are ALL loading mega victreebel #TRUST
