Yayaya, Champions OU is finally out
-
Follow our Instagram!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame Champions OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter dhelmise
- Start date
Got to semis in the first room tour (ggs you all who were there!). A few first impressions that could be completely wrong.
Gengar-Mega is not that bad to play against in offensive structures. It's not that fast, and doesn't hit that strongly. Jolly Lopunny-Mega gives it a hard time, so does Sneasler with Unburden activated, so do a lot of bulky mons that don't take supereffective damage. Just don't let it sub up. It might prove problematic in stall structures, though stall is assumed by many to be dead on arrival so we'll see.
In fact, Lopunny will be great as an anti-offense measure. The addition of Close Combat and Mach Punch to its moveset makes it so the sand matchup is even more dominant for it. You can consider Quick Attack for Gengar, maybe, but Mach Punch will also be important for enemy Lopunny and Lucario, besides Tyranitar and Excadrill.
Sneasler is cracked, even without terrain. Might have to go soon.
Corviknight is super good. I didn't play SV much, I mostly play from ORAS OU, so I'm impressed. I think Corviknight with Brave Bird is preferred due to Gengar. The PP nerfs make Pressure even better!
Electric moves might be a must given the prevalence of Blastoise, Starmie, Palafin, Corviknight, Skarmory, Primarina, and maybe Slowbro. Just a lot of stuff to hit supereffectively;
Greninja-Mega OHKO'd my Yache Garchomp with Ice Beam and that stunlocked me. I was expecting this thing to be pretty weak but I guess not.
Edit: here's the team I used. Sneasler had Mental Herb instead of White Herb and that cost me the game LOL but it's fixed here.
Gengar-Mega is not that bad to play against in offensive structures. It's not that fast, and doesn't hit that strongly. Jolly Lopunny-Mega gives it a hard time, so does Sneasler with Unburden activated, so do a lot of bulky mons that don't take supereffective damage. Just don't let it sub up. It might prove problematic in stall structures, though stall is assumed by many to be dead on arrival so we'll see.
In fact, Lopunny will be great as an anti-offense measure. The addition of Close Combat and Mach Punch to its moveset makes it so the sand matchup is even more dominant for it. You can consider Quick Attack for Gengar, maybe, but Mach Punch will also be important for enemy Lopunny and Lucario, besides Tyranitar and Excadrill.
Sneasler is cracked, even without terrain. Might have to go soon.
Corviknight is super good. I didn't play SV much, I mostly play from ORAS OU, so I'm impressed. I think Corviknight with Brave Bird is preferred due to Gengar. The PP nerfs make Pressure even better!
Electric moves might be a must given the prevalence of Blastoise, Starmie, Palafin, Corviknight, Skarmory, Primarina, and maybe Slowbro. Just a lot of stuff to hit supereffectively;
Greninja-Mega OHKO'd my Yache Garchomp with Ice Beam and that stunlocked me. I was expecting this thing to be pretty weak but I guess not.
Edit: here's the team I used. Sneasler had Mental Herb instead of White Herb and that cost me the game LOL but it's fixed here.
Last edited:
is your team bulky offense or balance?
So here is just about the best Stall team I could really make. With there being Item Clause and limited amount of items to begin with, it's kind of hard to make anything other than HO right now. On top of the limited selection of Pokemon.
And the fact that a bunch of Pokemon like Mega Gengar, Mega Zam, Sneasler, etc. are all running around.
Anyways here are some explanations for different sets.
Overall:
Since every Pokemon is Level 50, that means there are "stat jumps", which is when a positive nature stat jumps up 2 points instead of 2. VGC players commonly set their stats at that jump to have more efficient EV spreads, getting 4 (or in this case 1) extra stat point they can use in another stat. I did that for all my positive nature stats so that I could use more EVs in other stats.
Additionally, since there is no Heavy Duty Boots, I made all the HP stats 1 less than a divisible of 4 or 8 to minimize hazard damage.
Scovillain is the Mega of the team. Like I mentioned previously, it is rather unfortunate that it lacks reliable recovery. Needing to use Rest or Leech Seed to recover HP. So that's what I built this set for.
I also posted similar moveset in a different thread, so I'll briefly go over it here.
Rest + Sleep Talk lets Scovillain stay healthy with the extra benefit that it can heal status.
Leech Seed provides chip and extra healing.
Stomping Tantrum is Scovillain's means to hit back against Fire types that are otherwise immune to Spicy Spray. It actually "synergizes well" with Sleep Talk as Sleep Talk has 2 ways of failing by picking Rest or Leech Seeding a Pokemon with Leech Seed. This then doubles Stomping Tantrum's power. Additionally, you can not click anything on the last turn of sleep to preserve PP, then use Stomping Tantrum which will also double in power.
Yes, this is really the best it can do in Singles. Really hope in a future update it gets Synthesis. Maybe phasing move too.
Unfortunately there is an Item Clause and limited amount of items. So best you can do if slap on weakness berries. This does have the benefit of weakening Knock Off after use and making Poltergeist fail.
Hippo is the physically bulky Ground type that can phase out and threaten the likes of Mega Zard X or Sneasler with Earthquake and can Whirlwind out set up sweepers. A common theme is that everything has a way to deal with Mega Gengar too. Either a way to escape Shadow Tag or hit Gengar Super Effectively. In this case just Earthquake it.
The designated Unaware Pokemon pretty much every Stall team needs. Using a more Specially Defensive spread to help it face strong wallbreakers like Mega Charizard Y. You're bulky on both sides and Skeledirge's profile helps you check several set up sweepers. Torch Song is a great move as it also makes Skeledirge a threat offensively and lets you hit behind Substitutes. Skeledirge can threaten Mega Gengar with Hex, Torch Song if its Sub variant, or just run away.
The designated hazard control.
I gave Corv Sharp Beak specifically to let you OHKO Sneasler with Drill Peck, which is preferred over Brave Bird to preserve HP.
52 Atk Sharp Beak Corviknight Drill Peck vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sneasler: 156-186 (100.6 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
52 EVs reaches 114 Atk btw.
Corviknight also has the added benefit of Pressure, which is more impactful with the PP changes made to the game. I also Corv a relaxed nature in order to underspeed Corvs that have neutral nature. This lets Corv pivot after them with U-turn (which also lets it U-turn out of Mega Gengar)
Crobro provides important resistances like Fighting, Water, Ice, Psychic, and Fire. It is also a pretty bulky Calm Minder that can help it stomach Special attacks while hitting back. You can spread burns with Scald and prevent healing with Psychic Noise (which hits Gengar and through Substitite too). Colbur Berry is pretty sweet on Slowbro with Dark types being a serious threat and after it's used up, prevents Slowbro from being hit by Poltergeist too.
Last but not least, Umbreon plays an excellent role with being one of the bulkiest Special walls in the tier that's available. The rest of the team appreciates the Dark resistance and Psychic immunity, as well as the passing of Wishes given the low PP of healing moves (specially Scovillain). With there being no IVs, Foul Play is actually slightly buffed as well, letting it always 2HKO Mega Alakazam who can't just run 0 IV Atk. Umbreon also packs Toxic, letting it wear down Pokemon that don't mind burns or are immune anyways.
Umbreon also appreciates how common burns are on the team, making it incredibly hard to break as physical attackers get crippled and special attackers need to muscle through 95/130 special bulk.
Ppl called me crazy when I said mgar might not be as bad as everyone was anticipating I been sayin!!!
Def still look at it but it really ain’t allat crazy
So I hastily cobbled together a team and joined the second roomtour of the night. My initial impressions of the meta:
- Ban Bright Powder. My third match of the night was against a stall team featuring none other than Bright Powder Toxapex. Over the course of the 124-turn match, Bright Powder misses added up, with them being a notable contribution to my loss. Stuff like getting my mons poisoned because of a normally perfectly accurate pivot move randomly missing is no fun at all, and is the kind of uncompetitive BS we don't need in this tier.
- M-Lop seems really good. It's a very strong anti-offense mon in tier that's naturally gonna be biased toward offense. 4MSS is a bit annoying though, as is needing to rely on Mega Kick to get a Normal STAB over 70 BP.
- Corviknight also seems really good. Not much of a surprise there, but being a solid switch in to like half the meta is still pretty cool. Pressure is also getting more value given how many moves have had their PP cut.
- Skeledirge seems sneaky good as well. It's a huge pain to switch into, and Unaware is great against the various strong setup threats out there. It's also great at outlasting checks so long as hazards are kept off, especially with the item clause hurting the effective bulk of mons like Primarina.
- Scarf Hamurott is pretty neat too, being both decent at vomiting hazards and revenge killing threats like Dragapult.
- Evasion moves clause never got implemented, despite being listed on the main rules thread. Probably best to fix that, especially with Minimize Mega Starmie running around.
- Ban Bright Powder. My third match of the night was against a stall team featuring none other than Bright Powder Toxapex. Over the course of the 124-turn match, Bright Powder misses added up, with them being a notable contribution to my loss. Stuff like getting my mons poisoned because of a normally perfectly accurate pivot move randomly missing is no fun at all, and is the kind of uncompetitive BS we don't need in this tier.
- M-Lop seems really good. It's a very strong anti-offense mon in tier that's naturally gonna be biased toward offense. 4MSS is a bit annoying though, as is needing to rely on Mega Kick to get a Normal STAB over 70 BP.
- Corviknight also seems really good. Not much of a surprise there, but being a solid switch in to like half the meta is still pretty cool. Pressure is also getting more value given how many moves have had their PP cut.
- Skeledirge seems sneaky good as well. It's a huge pain to switch into, and Unaware is great against the various strong setup threats out there. It's also great at outlasting checks so long as hazards are kept off, especially with the item clause hurting the effective bulk of mons like Primarina.
- Scarf Hamurott is pretty neat too, being both decent at vomiting hazards and revenge killing threats like Dragapult.
- Evasion moves clause never got implemented, despite being listed on the main rules thread. Probably best to fix that, especially with Minimize Mega Starmie running around.
Ok so I have been playing for a bit and there are a lot of stuff that needs to be banned. For a start, I decided to abuse some moody and some evasion and some bright powder and it was really dumb. I won way more than I should. Below are some examples. Although low ladder, the idea is there. This requires no skill whatsoever.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2580380307-bs1tt141kpkjxne6xhgqkrgltvlmim1pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2580382880-c5pwhtgeyabfbxx9cjvua2cyt3l4cfspw
I genuinely feel that getting an evasion clause and banning the moody abilities is necessary because this is not competitive.
The next thing I would say to be on the chopping block is last respects, that move is not fair.
Then I would probably look at shadow tag(and eventually arena trap) but so far it's just mega gengar. I know a lot of people want to test mega gengar but I still feel that it should go. Then we could get rid of espathra. The rest, I feel that we can probably wait a week to let people experience the craziness and then see how thing should proceed but I do feel there are some emergency stuff to deal with.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2580380307-bs1tt141kpkjxne6xhgqkrgltvlmim1pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2580382880-c5pwhtgeyabfbxx9cjvua2cyt3l4cfspw
I genuinely feel that getting an evasion clause and banning the moody abilities is necessary because this is not competitive.
The next thing I would say to be on the chopping block is last respects, that move is not fair.
Then I would probably look at shadow tag(and eventually arena trap) but so far it's just mega gengar. I know a lot of people want to test mega gengar but I still feel that it should go. Then we could get rid of espathra. The rest, I feel that we can probably wait a week to let people experience the craziness and then see how thing should proceed but I do feel there are some emergency stuff to deal with.
Is there a viability rankings yet?
I would actually like to see what tier my man Dragapult is gonna be in, lol
I would actually like to see what tier my man Dragapult is gonna be in, lol
Minimize is a problem, I agree. I'm not convinced about Moody, though. Your two opponents misplayed a lot and even then Moody didn't achieve much.
Alrighty played for a while with mostly the same team, but I want to share my thoughts on some of the mons I've been using/playing against.
Lucario is super broken and the most consistent mega in my opinion. With just its stabs and Bullet Punch, you're covering both offense and fatter teams. Yes Aegislash exists, but also: +2 32 Atk Adaptability Lucario Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 84-99 (62.2 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (I guess Skeledirge walls you too, but I haven't seen it that often)
Gengar is probably broken too, but since the state of the meta in the first few hours has been filled with offence, I'm not really seeing it be all that great. Against fat yes it's broken, but vs offense it feels bad into all the setup guys + Scarf Samu and Pult + priority. Removes gambit though with sub and/or encore, so that's cool.
Blastoise has felt really underwhelming for me at least, probably because everyone (myself included) is running offense and spamming priority. As long as you hit it decently hard with something, you can usually limit it to one kill. Primarina also walls you and scarf Meow outruns you. Again, another probably broken, but not feeling it right now.
Starmie I actually haven't run into too often. The few times I've run into it, it's been quite strong with Liquid/Zen/Flip, but I'll have to play with it myself to see.
I've been spamming Lucario, so I haven't had much issues with Floette. It is really strong though with Fairy Aura boosted Moonblast and good bulk, definitely want to give it a try.
Though Dragapult would've loved boots, standard Dragon move/Hex/Status/U-turn has been doing well. Colbur is what I've been seeing most often to wisp gambit, but I like boosting items like Dragon Fang or Spell Tag too. Dragapult doing honest work with its speed tier, as usual.
This guy is still pretty dishonest though. Standard SD set is pretty nutty with the item choice on it, ranging from Lum(or Rawst), Black Glasses, Lefties, or Chople, which lets you beat Skarm and Corv at +2. Doesn't feel broken right now though, just strong.
Hazards are rly strong as expected. Corv is pretty good at removal though given the general lower power level.
Even without the crack boost from Tera, Dragonite still feels pretty strong, especially with all the offense running around. I've been liking Silk Scarf + Extreme Speed, as it frees up items for other mons while still giving Dragonite a useful boost.
In general, I think the item clause feels fine, been seeing a lot of item techs working out that we otherwise wouldn't see. Definitely sucks for fatter teams, but it makes building and playing against offense interesting.
Lucario is super broken and the most consistent mega in my opinion. With just its stabs and Bullet Punch, you're covering both offense and fatter teams. Yes Aegislash exists, but also: +2 32 Atk Adaptability Lucario Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 84-99 (62.2 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (I guess Skeledirge walls you too, but I haven't seen it that often)
Gengar is probably broken too, but since the state of the meta in the first few hours has been filled with offence, I'm not really seeing it be all that great. Against fat yes it's broken, but vs offense it feels bad into all the setup guys + Scarf Samu and Pult + priority. Removes gambit though with sub and/or encore, so that's cool.
Blastoise has felt really underwhelming for me at least, probably because everyone (myself included) is running offense and spamming priority. As long as you hit it decently hard with something, you can usually limit it to one kill. Primarina also walls you and scarf Meow outruns you. Again, another probably broken, but not feeling it right now.
Starmie I actually haven't run into too often. The few times I've run into it, it's been quite strong with Liquid/Zen/Flip, but I'll have to play with it myself to see.
I've been spamming Lucario, so I haven't had much issues with Floette. It is really strong though with Fairy Aura boosted Moonblast and good bulk, definitely want to give it a try.
Though Dragapult would've loved boots, standard Dragon move/Hex/Status/U-turn has been doing well. Colbur is what I've been seeing most often to wisp gambit, but I like boosting items like Dragon Fang or Spell Tag too. Dragapult doing honest work with its speed tier, as usual.
This guy is still pretty dishonest though. Standard SD set is pretty nutty with the item choice on it, ranging from Lum(or Rawst), Black Glasses, Lefties, or Chople, which lets you beat Skarm and Corv at +2. Doesn't feel broken right now though, just strong.
Hazards are rly strong as expected. Corv is pretty good at removal though given the general lower power level.
Even without the crack boost from Tera, Dragonite still feels pretty strong, especially with all the offense running around. I've been liking Silk Scarf + Extreme Speed, as it frees up items for other mons while still giving Dragonite a useful boost.
In general, I think the item clause feels fine, been seeing a lot of item techs working out that we otherwise wouldn't see. Definitely sucks for fatter teams, but it makes building and playing against offense interesting.
Last edited:
NP! I keep forgetting that stupid billionaire made that change lol. If this helps -you or anyone reading this-, replacing x.com with xcancel.com lets you see all the replies and whatnot without being logged in. Comes in handy sometimes.
Could you drop a link for your team plsAlrighty played for a while with mostly the same team, but I want to share my thoughts on some of the mons I've been using/playing against.
Lucario is super broken and the most consistent mega in my opinion. With just its stabs and Bullet Punch, you're covering both offense and fatter teams. Yes Aegislash exists, but also: +2 32 Atk Adaptability Lucario Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 84-99 (62.2 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (I guess Skeledirge walls you too, but I haven't seen it that often)
Gengar is probably broken too, but since the state of the meta in the first few hours has been filled with offence, I'm not really seeing it be all that great. Against fat yes it's broken, but vs offense it feels bad into all the setup guys + Scarf Samu and Pult + priority. Removes gambit though with sub and/or encore, so that's cool.
Blastoise has felt really underwhelming for me at least, probably because everyone (myself included) is running offense and spamming priority. As long as you hit it decently hard with something, you can usually limit it to one kill. Primarina also walls you and scarf Meow outruns you. Again, another probably broken, but not feeling it right now.
Starmie I actually haven't run into too often. The few times I've run into it, it's been quite strong with Liquid/Zen/Flip, but I'll have to play with it myself to see.
I've been spamming Lucario, so I haven't had much issues with Floette. It is really strong though with Fairy Aura boosted Moonblast and good bulk, definitely want to give it a try.
Though Dragapult would've loved boots, standard Dragon move/Hex/Status/U-turn has been doing well. Colbur is what I've been seeing most often to wisp gambit, but I like boosting items like Dragon Fang or Spell Tag too. Dragapult doing honest work with its speed tier, as usual.
This guy is still pretty dishonest though. Standard SD set is pretty nutty with the item choice on it, ranging from Lum(or Rawst), Black Glasses, Lefties, or Chople, which lets you beat Skarm and Corv at +2. Doesn't feel broken right now though, just strong.
Hazards are rly strong as expected. Corv is pretty good at removal though given the general lower power level.
Even without the crack boost from Tera, Dragonite still feels pretty strong, especially with all the offense running around. I've been liking Silk Scarf + Extreme Speed, as it frees up items for other mons while still giving Dragonite a useful boost.
In general, I think the item clause feels fine, been seeing a lot of item techs working out that we otherwise wouldn't see. Definitely sucks for fatter teams, but it makes building and playing against offense interesting.
Minimum A tier. One of the fastest mon outside of mega + hex set are strong in this "low" powercreeped meta
alrighty, i've been playing the whole morning (I forgot to my Gacha dailies cuz of ts smh smh)
aaand i think i have a good grasp of the tier, having won the first room tour
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2580357703?p2
gonna be posting some of my teams that i like a lot
https://pokepast.es/3c94056723c6aff7
easily my favourite team, and the best one probably rn, and the one i won the tour with. It's just a classic vanilla strong DFS + FWG core that all fit each other really well, MPhox is also INSANE, it has so much damage, and the fact it can outspeed and ohko Mega Gengar, as well as resist Mega Lucario is just chef's kiss, along with leviatate ignoring the Spikes fille tier, it's so good. The only issue on the team is no removal, so the hardest MUs are Glimmora teams, but they aren't impossible to beat, just require better play.
https://pokepast.es/7f3a0a115803b685
i don't think i need to explain this LOL, M-Stoise and Espathra are beyond broken, even more so with shed tail support. the team is very cheese so, hf lol. and pls ban
https://pokepast.es/9ec885411d7e32f3
very similar to the 1st team, but mega floette is a monster, the rest of the team just exists around her to support her. fat chomp is quite good alongside wisp pult here, meow also fills a lot of floette's gaps.
https://pokepast.es/6f19982b5d0d50eb
classic-ish sun, never fails in any gen. losing life orb hurts venu but its still the sun man as usual. Ceruledge is really good into the more slow-hard hitting side of the tier, and dnite is peak as always, even without boots.
Some things I have noticed in terms of what's good/isn't:
are all just as good as they were in SV, just classic vanilla amazing pokemon that still have everything they need
are all pokemon who kinda fell off, yet in a reduced dex are all extremely good and valuable
are all up and coming powerhouses, i'm prob missing some but these ones are REALLY good.
+ Shed Tail + Evasion + Moody
BAN PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
kinda fell off for different reasons, mainly no boots, no bpress + damp rock, and no toxic orb (LMAO L BOZO REST IN PISS), no stoss + pup respectively
but yeah that's kinda my assessment sofar, i'm having a lot of fun with the tier
aaand i think i have a good grasp of the tier, having won the first room tour
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2580357703?p2
gonna be posting some of my teams that i like a lot
https://pokepast.es/3c94056723c6aff7
easily my favourite team, and the best one probably rn, and the one i won the tour with. It's just a classic vanilla strong DFS + FWG core that all fit each other really well, MPhox is also INSANE, it has so much damage, and the fact it can outspeed and ohko Mega Gengar, as well as resist Mega Lucario is just chef's kiss, along with leviatate ignoring the Spikes fille tier, it's so good. The only issue on the team is no removal, so the hardest MUs are Glimmora teams, but they aren't impossible to beat, just require better play.
https://pokepast.es/7f3a0a115803b685
i don't think i need to explain this LOL, M-Stoise and Espathra are beyond broken, even more so with shed tail support. the team is very cheese so, hf lol. and pls ban
https://pokepast.es/9ec885411d7e32f3
very similar to the 1st team, but mega floette is a monster, the rest of the team just exists around her to support her. fat chomp is quite good alongside wisp pult here, meow also fills a lot of floette's gaps.
https://pokepast.es/6f19982b5d0d50eb
classic-ish sun, never fails in any gen. losing life orb hurts venu but its still the sun man as usual. Ceruledge is really good into the more slow-hard hitting side of the tier, and dnite is peak as always, even without boots.
Some things I have noticed in terms of what's good/isn't:
are all just as good as they were in SV, just classic vanilla amazing pokemon that still have everything they need are all pokemon who kinda fell off, yet in a reduced dex are all extremely good and valuable are all up and coming powerhouses, i'm prob missing some but these ones are REALLY good. + Shed Tail + Evasion + MoodyBAN PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
kinda fell off for different reasons, mainly no boots, no bpress + damp rock, and no toxic orb (LMAO L BOZO REST IN PISS), no stoss + pup respectivelybut yeah that's kinda my assessment sofar, i'm having a lot of fun with the tier
Last edited:
Peaked rank 1 at 1372 (lol yea ik) and wanted to talk about the meta.
I mainly used 2 teams, I'll elaborate a little on them below. They're not very good but in my experience good play will usually lead to wins. (Click for link)
Had to build around my goats first lol. Item clause makes the extra mega stone on exca not completely meme but most of the time it's not clicked anyway so shuca is fine there too. I'll get to some of the individual mons later but the main one I wanna focus on is mega floette. This thing hits insanely hard with fairy moves to the point you kinda don't need anything else. That being said psychic over synth is probably the move here as dkiss heals most of what you need anyway, and hitting glim/mgar is quite useful. It's ridiculously strong, but also a little hard to actually get that many attacks off with all the offense running around. The team also struggles into some of the strong physical megas like starmie and lucario, which can just run away with the game if even the slightest slipup happens. Other than that this can beat most guys with knock + sand making progress and pult being really strong in general. Exca is nice to revenge just about anything but I wish we had balloon.
I have never actually gotten to use mega gengar so i thought ho with it sounded fun. It's very good, but with all the offense going around with scarf samu, pult, scarf chomp, sand drill, kingambit, all the other priority, it feels manageable? On this team it kinda functions as a strong breaker since opp can't switch out, and dbond pretty much always guarantees at least a 2 for 1, but I've gotten 3 as well. So propably broken anyway lol. Rest of the team is pretty standard HO. I think scizor is quite underrated since I haven't seen it that much. Glimmora speed ties t1 are really annoying tho.
As for general meta thoughts, I've been getting my ass handed to me by mega lucario, that thing should probably go. It's good into both offense and fat and is just too strong to reliably pivot around with the dex we have. I haven't used skeledirge yet but idk without boots that mon looks like it's on fraudwatch. Mega blastoise might also be broken, but I've been handling it alright with offense. It's probably too strong and and fat to keep around. Mega kangaskhan feels fine, it's just a strong mon. No stoss or pup makes it less suffocating. Mega scovillain is surprisingly annoying lol, seeing it always makes me hesitate to attack. I also ran into a mega victreebel that immediately got a 1 for 1 with my mega gengar, so that was fun.
For non megas, garchomp feels like the best mon in the tier or at least top 3. Tank chomp with lefties feels very good and checks a bunch of the strong physical attackers in the tier like sneasler, kingambit, mega lucario, mega kangaskhan and more. It can also run scarf or just offensive in general pretty reliably. This isn't much of a surprise tho I think everyone knew chomp was gonna be good. I wish life orb was around so I could run mixed tho, would've been crazy.
Dragapult is also incredible. That speed tier is truly elite and keeps quite a few mons honest. Wisp cripples a lot of mons like sneasler and corviknight and prevents them from running circles around your team. Even scares starmie a lot. No boots or specs is pretty annoying though.
Corviknight is another great mon. Checks everything, can run physdef or spdef with any item basically. I'm liking spdef since it can check floette and pivot on blastoise, while still being a good pivot into most physical attackers.
Glimmora is very good as with no boots, the tier really hates tspikes. It pretty much forces a poison in immediately lest something gets poisoned, which can be capitalized on. Also, as far as I can tell dying to contact effects on a spin still removes hazards now, so that's actually a really nice buff to glim.
Dragonite is as good as ever, espeed provides nice outs into offense. It's also a really good user of lum berry, getting an extra turn on dragapult or rotom wash. Mons like volc, sciz, prim, meowscarada, kingambit, sneasler are also very good.
I haven't seen much weather tbh which makes sense. Arch got nerfed to hell which makes rain worse, with only basculegion as a swift swimmer (which is pretty good for the record). Sun doesn't even have any setters besides zard-y, which wants to use up those sun turns itself. In case of sand exca is pretty nice as a revenge killer, but without extended sand turns it can feel a bit wonky as well as exca not having balloon or lefties (if it's on something else), and ttar without cb/av also feels a little clunky. Mega Ttar is pretty good though but I like chople atm for mgar and mzam.
Not much else to say other than I wish more items get added soon, as it stands the selection is pretty barren.
I mainly used 2 teams, I'll elaborate a little on them below. They're not very good but in my experience good play will usually lead to wins. (Click for link)
Had to build around my goats first lol. Item clause makes the extra mega stone on exca not completely meme but most of the time it's not clicked anyway so shuca is fine there too. I'll get to some of the individual mons later but the main one I wanna focus on is mega floette. This thing hits insanely hard with fairy moves to the point you kinda don't need anything else. That being said psychic over synth is probably the move here as dkiss heals most of what you need anyway, and hitting glim/mgar is quite useful. It's ridiculously strong, but also a little hard to actually get that many attacks off with all the offense running around. The team also struggles into some of the strong physical megas like starmie and lucario, which can just run away with the game if even the slightest slipup happens. Other than that this can beat most guys with knock + sand making progress and pult being really strong in general. Exca is nice to revenge just about anything but I wish we had balloon.
I have never actually gotten to use mega gengar so i thought ho with it sounded fun. It's very good, but with all the offense going around with scarf samu, pult, scarf chomp, sand drill, kingambit, all the other priority, it feels manageable? On this team it kinda functions as a strong breaker since opp can't switch out, and dbond pretty much always guarantees at least a 2 for 1, but I've gotten 3 as well. So propably broken anyway lol. Rest of the team is pretty standard HO. I think scizor is quite underrated since I haven't seen it that much. Glimmora speed ties t1 are really annoying tho.
As for general meta thoughts, I've been getting my ass handed to me by mega lucario, that thing should probably go. It's good into both offense and fat and is just too strong to reliably pivot around with the dex we have. I haven't used skeledirge yet but idk without boots that mon looks like it's on fraudwatch. Mega blastoise might also be broken, but I've been handling it alright with offense. It's probably too strong and and fat to keep around. Mega kangaskhan feels fine, it's just a strong mon. No stoss or pup makes it less suffocating. Mega scovillain is surprisingly annoying lol, seeing it always makes me hesitate to attack. I also ran into a mega victreebel that immediately got a 1 for 1 with my mega gengar, so that was fun.
For non megas, garchomp feels like the best mon in the tier or at least top 3. Tank chomp with lefties feels very good and checks a bunch of the strong physical attackers in the tier like sneasler, kingambit, mega lucario, mega kangaskhan and more. It can also run scarf or just offensive in general pretty reliably. This isn't much of a surprise tho I think everyone knew chomp was gonna be good. I wish life orb was around so I could run mixed tho, would've been crazy.
Dragapult is also incredible. That speed tier is truly elite and keeps quite a few mons honest. Wisp cripples a lot of mons like sneasler and corviknight and prevents them from running circles around your team. Even scares starmie a lot. No boots or specs is pretty annoying though.
Corviknight is another great mon. Checks everything, can run physdef or spdef with any item basically. I'm liking spdef since it can check floette and pivot on blastoise, while still being a good pivot into most physical attackers.
Glimmora is very good as with no boots, the tier really hates tspikes. It pretty much forces a poison in immediately lest something gets poisoned, which can be capitalized on. Also, as far as I can tell dying to contact effects on a spin still removes hazards now, so that's actually a really nice buff to glim.
Dragonite is as good as ever, espeed provides nice outs into offense. It's also a really good user of lum berry, getting an extra turn on dragapult or rotom wash. Mons like volc, sciz, prim, meowscarada, kingambit, sneasler are also very good.
I haven't seen much weather tbh which makes sense. Arch got nerfed to hell which makes rain worse, with only basculegion as a swift swimmer (which is pretty good for the record). Sun doesn't even have any setters besides zard-y, which wants to use up those sun turns itself. In case of sand exca is pretty nice as a revenge killer, but without extended sand turns it can feel a bit wonky as well as exca not having balloon or lefties (if it's on something else), and ttar without cb/av also feels a little clunky. Mega Ttar is pretty good though but I like chople atm for mgar and mzam.
Not much else to say other than I wish more items get added soon, as it stands the selection is pretty barren.
I hope the council of this Metagame doesn’t take “X doesn’t seem too broken right now” as a serious justifications to let all the unbanned things remain unbanned.
Yeah let the kiddies have their fun and all for a bit, but please take some tiering action soon and almost everything that was broken in regular OU/National Dex.
(technicay?)
Well besides Mega Kangaskhan. Mega Kang actually got substantially nerfed. Losing bothing Power-Up Punch and Seismic Toss, the only 2 moves that kept Mega Kang broken previously. It’s actually kind of bad now.
And Kingambit was banned in National Dex but was given Knock Off there too, which is lacks here.
Those 2 are fine (for now), but everything else needs to go asap. If I wanted to play Singles with people using Bright Powder Moody Scovillain, I’d just play BSS, which is literally just below OU in the Showdown menus.
Yeah let the kiddies have their fun and all for a bit, but please take some tiering action soon and almost everything that was broken in regular OU/National Dex.
(technicay?)Well besides Mega Kangaskhan. Mega Kang actually got substantially nerfed. Losing bothing Power-Up Punch and Seismic Toss, the only 2 moves that kept Mega Kang broken previously. It’s actually kind of bad now.
And Kingambit was banned in National Dex but was given Knock Off there too, which is lacks here.
Those 2 are fine (for now), but everything else needs to go asap. If I wanted to play Singles with people using Bright Powder Moody Scovillain, I’d just play BSS, which is literally just below OU in the Showdown menus.
The only thing I would advocate for a ban right now is Bright Powder, which shouldn't meet too much resistance. All the rest can be handled so far, and even if there is very much silly stuff like Mega Lucario, everything is checked by multiple, very viable Pokemon which forms an interesting dynamic. I would like if we let it simmer for a few days before taking harsh decisions.
____
This mon is so, so good. It trades remarkably well into anything not named Mega Gengar and if the opponent does not have a Glowking, it's incredibly difficult to switch into the combination of Surf/Moonblast/Psychic Noise. It naturally checks stuff like Mega Blastoise, the Zards, Mega Delphox, Dragonite, Dragapult, Hydreigon, Mega Gyarados, Mega Sharpedo, Kommo-o... The list goes on. An incredible addition to any offense team.
____
This mon is so, so good. It trades remarkably well into anything not named Mega Gengar and if the opponent does not have a Glowking, it's incredibly difficult to switch into the combination of Surf/Moonblast/Psychic Noise. It naturally checks stuff like Mega Blastoise, the Zards, Mega Delphox, Dragonite, Dragapult, Hydreigon, Mega Gyarados, Mega Sharpedo, Kommo-o... The list goes on. An incredible addition to any offense team.
No, I have explained this here
https://pokepast.es/6f107ce3da8b747f
dumb spikestack that i used to win the first roomtour
team is kinda 6-0d by sneasler (i only won because someone used mental herb instead of white herb)
please ban evasion; i have no idea why it is not banned and it's not like any other ou tier starts with it unbanned just to see or whatever
dumb spikestack that i used to win the first roomtour
team is kinda 6-0d by sneasler (i only won because someone used mental herb instead of white herb)
please ban evasion; i have no idea why it is not banned and it's not like any other ou tier starts with it unbanned just to see or whatever
Sorry, I was referring to in the announcements thread
Man, what the f***?
Who though it was a great idea to allow Moody? Just faced Moody Glalie
Who though it was a great idea to allow Moody? Just faced Moody Glalie