Late reply, but this is actually how it always worked. The wording change makes this more evident, but Mega Mawile could always use Foul Play with a Huge Power buff, for example.
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Research Champions Battle Mechanics Research
- Thread starter Marty
- Start date
Hi. SnorlaxMonster wanted to test if the Own Tempo Baton Pass bug that has been around since Gen 5 still exists, since they suspect we could have a notably different battle engine in this game. I managed to cobble together the sets to test it. The Own Tempo Baton Pass bug does not exist in the Pokemon Champions engine as far as I can tell. Shown in this footage with Vaporeon Baton Passing into Slowbro, where the confusion is cured immediately rather than at the time of the next action.
In other news, there appears to be something amiss with Unnerve, but the cause is currently unclear to me. Sometimes it fails to suppress the Sitrus Berry. I've seen two clips of it happening, one here and one here. I tested a few cases with qrChar and wasn't able to deduce anything really; it always worked properly when we tested. We tried singles, adjacent Aerodactyl, diagonal Aerodactyl, broken Focus Sash on Aerodactyl, and Oran/Sitrus/Charti Berry. All were normal with Unnerve suppressing the berry triggers. Hopefully I can post footage of this fairly soon, but I have to clean it up since it was longer and was recorded via smartphone.
Hope this helps.
In other news, there appears to be something amiss with Unnerve, but the cause is currently unclear to me. Sometimes it fails to suppress the Sitrus Berry. I've seen two clips of it happening, one here and one here. I tested a few cases with qrChar and wasn't able to deduce anything really; it always worked properly when we tested. We tried singles, adjacent Aerodactyl, diagonal Aerodactyl, broken Focus Sash on Aerodactyl, and Oran/Sitrus/Charti Berry. All were normal with Unnerve suppressing the berry triggers. Hopefully I can post footage of this fairly soon, but I have to clean it up since it was longer and was recorded via smartphone.
Hope this helps.
The sandstorm spdef test was obviously done separately...
If a Pokémon is Encore'd and Mental Herb activates, is its move priority still changed to the Encore'd move?
Even more basic: if a Pokémon is Encore'd before acting and Mental Herb activates, which move does it execute that turn?
Even more basic: if a Pokémon is Encore'd before acting and Mental Herb activates, which move does it execute that turn?
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I'm strongly suspecting the battle engine was completely rewritten for this game. Between all the new glitches, the old glitches that have vanished like Trick Room Underflow, and the frankly weird behavior, I'm thinking they started from 0 instead of copying anything over. If so, there's no element of the game that can be assumed to function exactly as we expect. Even something like damage ranges might have changed subtly, either intentionally or via the equivalent of a 1/256 error.Hi. SnorlaxMonster wanted to test if the Own Tempo Baton Pass bug that has been around since Gen 5 still exists, since they suspect we could have a notably different battle engine in this game. I managed to cobble together the sets to test it. The Own Tempo Baton Pass bug does not exist in the Pokemon Champions engine as far as I can tell. Shown in this footage with Vaporeon Baton Passing into Slowbro, where the confusion is cured immediately rather than at the time of the next action.
To our knowledge, a lot of the actual battle engine is done on the server side, right?Hi. SnorlaxMonster wanted to test if the Own Tempo Baton Pass bug that has been around since Gen 5 still exists, since they suspect we could have a notably different battle engine in this game. I managed to cobble together the sets to test it. The Own Tempo Baton Pass bug does not exist in the Pokemon Champions engine as far as I can tell. Shown in this footage with Vaporeon Baton Passing into Slowbro, where the confusion is cured immediately rather than at the time of the next action.
In other news, there appears to be something amiss with Unnerve, but the cause is currently unclear to me. Sometimes it fails to suppress the Sitrus Berry. I've seen two clips of it happening, one here and one here. I tested a few cases with qrChar and wasn't able to deduce anything really; it always worked properly when we tested. We tried singles, adjacent Aerodactyl, diagonal Aerodactyl, broken Focus Sash on Aerodactyl, and Oran/Sitrus/Charti Berry. All were normal with Unnerve suppressing the berry triggers. Hopefully I can post footage of this fairly soon, but I have to clean it up since it was longer and was recorded via smartphone.
Hope this helps.
Some of these bugs could be already patched by the time we get to testing, then? Though they did have to send a patch file alongside the last maintenance.
Might be worth checking if Shell Bell is still affected by the Sheer Force "bug". I don't think anyone cares about that item competitively, so if it was truly rewritten, I don't see them replicating how Sheer Force used to work in the past exactly.
Can you bring multiple Pokémon of the same species into a private battle?
How does Horn Drill interact with Piercing Drill? Does it bypass protect?
How does Horn Drill interact with Piercing Drill? Does it bypass protect?
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Incidentally, this is the same message Max moves and Z-moves had, so probably they just replaced the previous behaviour with the same as the special moves.
May probably be worth checking later down the line once those mechanics make it to Champions if it's still exactly same (since it would imply it uses the same logic server-side)
It looks like it OHKO's if successful.
Mechanics stream #4
- 3:36 Footage of Ally Switch + side target (the move fails just like in Scarlet/Violet)
- 4:47 Footage of side Parting Shot vs White Herb (does not trigger from Parting Shot user's perspective prior to switch, but does from opponent's)
- 9:00 Super Fang into an odd HP Pokemon will show a green HP bar at 50%; Super Fang into an even HP Pokemon will show a yellow HP bar at 50%.
- More testing needs to be done on how rounding works for the HP% display (e.g. how does a Pokemon with 99.5% HP display, or 0.5%)
- 14:07 Sheer Force still suppresses Shell Bell's recovery
- 17:32 Sheer Force does not suppress a target's Berserk
- 21:22 It is not possible to add two Pokemon of the same species into a box
- 27:17 U-turn vs Weak Armor + White Herb (same behavior as Parting Shot)
- 30:19 Side U-turn vs Weak Armor + White Herb (same behavior as Parting Shot)
- 38:13 I was unable to reproduce a visual glitch with Blizzard / Heat Wave showing a fainted Pokemon in their animations, described by skymin<3 in my last stream and which I had footage of from a Twitter clip.
- 1:04:03 Tests begin for trying to reproduce Unnerve failing to prevent Pokemon from eating Berries
- Most of the initial tests involve trying to reproduce the clip exactly.
- 1:28:33 Showcasing Hospitality Sinistcha can still eat Sitrus vs Aerodactyl on lead
- 1:35:24 Charti Berry Intimidate Incineroar did not ignore Unnerve
- 1:39:53 Sitrus Berry Inner Focus Alakazam did not ignore Unnerve
- 1:41:11 Sitrus Berry activates once Unnerve leaves the field like normal
- 1:51:17 Showcasing Drizzle Pelipper can still eat Sitrus vs Aerodactyl on lead
- 1:56:24 Sitrus Berry Whimsicott did not ignore Unnerve
- 1:57:06 Showcasing Hospitality Sinistcha can still eat Coba vs Aerodactyl on lead
- 2:00:37 Showcasing Drizzle Pelipper can still eat Charti vs Aerodactyl on lead (but Frisk Typhlosion can't eat Sitrus)
- 2:02:40 Coba Berry was not eaten by Sinistcha if Aerodactyl switched out and back in while Sinistcha was active on the field. Switching Sinistcha out and back in allowed it to eat Coba through Unnerve.
- 2:08:55 Frisk Typhlosion still can't eat Sitrus Berry, even if it's not led and switches in.
- 2:16:31 Non-Drizzle Pelipper could not eat Charti Berry vs Aerodactyl
- 2:19:21 Sylveon could not eat Sitrus Berry vs Aerodactyl
- 2:24:51 Showcasing Drizzle Poltioed can still eat Sitrus vs Aerodactyl on lead, but Drizzle Pelipper that did not set up the rain could not eat Charti
- 2:29:46 Once rain ran out, sending out Drizzle Pelipper again and setting up rain again allowed it to eat Charti against Aerodactyl
- 2:37:55 Showcasing Drought Torkoal can still eat Sitrus vs Aerodactyl on lead
From the stream, it seemed like it follows main-line games: floor rounding, HP turns yellow at exactly 50%, and red at exactly 20%.
I wonder if this is due to changes to Sheer Force or Berserk. Maybe Berserk now activates in the middle of a multi-hit move?
This is probably true, but is damage from Mega Sol's Water-type moves halved?
Phantom Force already bypasses Protect so this seems like intended behavior.
Hi, I've been reading the mechanic research threads for many years now but this is my first post. Thank you all for your contribution throughout the years.
I just witnessed the following weird interaction while playing Doubles:
Turn 1 the opponent's Talonflame misses a Will-o-Wisp on my Kingambit.
Turn 2 my Whimsicott uses Taunt on the opponent's Talonflame. Talonflame tries to execute Will-o-Wisp again, but it cannot unleash it. So far so good.
Turn 3 my Whimsicott uses Encore on Talonflame and guess what? Whichever move the opponent had clicked was replaced by a successful Will-o-Wisp that burned my Whimsicott.
Turn 4 the opponent's Talonflame is out of moves and is forced to use Struggle. At the end of this turn Taunt wears off.
I'm afraid I don't have footage. Did this interaction result in this bug in prior games?
I just witnessed the following weird interaction while playing Doubles:
Turn 1 the opponent's Talonflame misses a Will-o-Wisp on my Kingambit.
Turn 2 my Whimsicott uses Taunt on the opponent's Talonflame. Talonflame tries to execute Will-o-Wisp again, but it cannot unleash it. So far so good.
Turn 3 my Whimsicott uses Encore on Talonflame and guess what? Whichever move the opponent had clicked was replaced by a successful Will-o-Wisp that burned my Whimsicott.
Turn 4 the opponent's Talonflame is out of moves and is forced to use Struggle. At the end of this turn Taunt wears off.
I'm afraid I don't have footage. Did this interaction result in this bug in prior games?
Hi. A couple of little things.
Hope this helps.
Yes. Early Bird Kangaskhan was only "fast asleep" for one turn after using Rest. I thought I had footage, but apparently it didn't save properly, so I may recapture this one later.
It seems like Freeze-Dry has lost its 10% chance to freeze the target. I took a picture of it in-game, too. I haven't spammed it to be absolutely certain, though. Sorry if this one was already covered; I couldn't find it in the threads with the search function.
Hope this helps.
After spamming Freeze Dry ~50 times and not getting a single freeze, I feel safe saying that Freeze-Dry's freeze chance was removed in Champions.
Apologies for the double post but while watching a stream I discovered a mechanic that I don't think has been documented yet - after Dire Claw hit a paralyzed Floette, a message popped up saying "The opposing Floette is already paralyzed!" (link to clip), potentially implying that attacks with a chance to cause a status condition now reveal that they would have caused a status condition if the Pokemon wasn't already statused. I tested this myself with Nuzzle and found that using Nuzzle on an already statused mon (tested with both paralysis and burn) does not trigger this line. Honestly not sure how this line was triggered in the clip - it possibly only may only appear with Dire Hit since it has multiple statuses it can proc??
Sent by Dhelmise. This appears to be a similar Dire Claw interaction, but the message was "But it failed!", probably because it rolled a different status effect than the one the target already had.
We also see a message with Spicy Spray activating on a Fire-type Pokémon, but I'm not sure whether it triggers with abilities like Flame Body and Static, or Poison Point.
Speaking of descriptions, I have a list of grievances about them I haven't seen mentioned yet.
Is this true? It's known from previous games that this recoil was actually much closer to 33% than 1/3, and I'm not convinced this is a rounding thing because they have no issue with writing "33%" elsewhere:
This seems to imply either just the target's statuses are removed, or all such statuses for both sides. Has Defog actually changed?
Screen Cleaner also implies both sides are removed, but that one we know was true:
Implies the move can be selected before a Berry is eaten, when previous descriptions used the slightly more clear "The user must eat a held Berry to use this move."
This one I assume is just bad wording because they did the same for Fake Out too, which we already know changed mechanically to can't be selected:
But then they also did it right for Stuff Cheeks, so who knows:
This doesn't say it can hit through protection, when they did so for other moves:
Can Coaching no longer be used on protecting allies?
Code:
Double-Edge: The user takes 1/3 of the damage dealt by this move.Fairy Aura: Boosts the power of the Fairy-type moves of all Pokémon on the field by 33%.
Code:
Defog: Lowers the target’s evasiveness by 1 stage. Removes statuses such as Reflect, Spikes, and Safeguard, as well as any terrain.Screen Cleaner also implies both sides are removed, but that one we know was true:
When the Pokémon enters a battle, it removes the Light Screen, Reflect, and Aurora Veil statuses.
Code:
Belch: This move fails unless the user has eaten a Berry during the battle.This one I assume is just bad wording because they did the same for Fake Out too, which we already know changed mechanically to can't be selected:
This move fails unless it is the first move used by the user after it enters a battle.But then they also did it right for Stuff Cheeks, so who knows:
This move can’t be used if the user is not holding a Berry.
Code:
Coaching: Boosts allies’ Attack and Defense stats by 1 stage.Tearful Look: Lowers the target’s Attack and Sp. Atk stats by 1 stage. This move ignores the target’s evasiveness and can hit a target using a move such as Protect.Can Coaching no longer be used on protecting allies?
Hi. I had a little time this evening, so I didn't get to everything, but I thought I'd check a few of these.
"Snorlax hasn't eaten any held Berries, so it can't possibly belch!"
Hope this helps.
I tested both Aurora Veil on my side and Stealth Rock on the opponent's side, since those were easy to do on ladder. My Aurora Veil was not removed, and Stealth Rock on their side was removed. These two cases match previous games, at least. More testing ideally for other cases.
This one threw me for a bit of a loop: Belch is selectable without eating a Berry at all, and gives a whole new error message.
"Snorlax hasn't eaten any held Berries, so it can't possibly belch!"
Coaching can still be used on Protecting allies as in previous games. I tested with Coaching Sneasler into Protect Aerodactyl. This seems to be a case of an unclear description.
Hope this helps.
I have softlocked the game and I do not know exactly why, but I believe it's under the following conditions:
Player 1 forfeits after selecting their attack (to my memory, that is what I did) and the game waits for the other players turn
Player 2 AFKs
I have been seeing "Communicating..." for like... 10 minutes.
I believe this reasoning might be true for the softlock if the server did not program an endstate for both players forfeiting, ie. a timeout may be coded as a forfeit? I'm not sure. If someone can replicate this or figure out why please let me know, I'm genuinely curious.
I would record but it's far too late and literally all that has been happening is the game has been "Communicating..." this entire time.
Edit: The game confirms after relaunching the game that the game didn't end correctly. I also have a video clip of the softlock for 1m20.
Also I'm not entirely sure this is supposed to be the thread for this so apologies if not, but I do think it's interesting if that is what has changed.
Player 1 forfeits after selecting their attack (to my memory, that is what I did) and the game waits for the other players turn
Player 2 AFKs
I have been seeing "Communicating..." for like... 10 minutes.
I believe this reasoning might be true for the softlock if the server did not program an endstate for both players forfeiting, ie. a timeout may be coded as a forfeit? I'm not sure. If someone can replicate this or figure out why please let me know, I'm genuinely curious.
I would record but it's far too late and literally all that has been happening is the game has been "Communicating..." this entire time.
Edit: The game confirms after relaunching the game that the game didn't end correctly. I also have a video clip of the softlock for 1m20.
Also I'm not entirely sure this is supposed to be the thread for this so apologies if not, but I do think it's interesting if that is what has changed.
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