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Metagame Champions UU Metagame Discussion [October Shifts #131]

Tsareena is definitely underexplored in this meta considering the lack of decent spinners. It has synth, knock, u turn and rapid spin. Especially knock means it cant be reliably spin blocked by common ghost types like basculegion and gengar unlike blastoise or forretress. I just wanted to say that its def not a D tier mon I reckon.
 
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Happy Sunday everyone! It's crazy how much eyes are on Champions UU now, especially since it got a ladder. We've been keeping an eye on how the metagame has developed and I can say now that we have done our first tiering slate and I'm happy to announce that...

:xy/froslass-mega::xy/polteageist::xy/medicham-mega:

Froslass-Mega, Polteageist, and Medicham-Mega have been quickbanned from Champions UU by council vote! Tagging dhelmise to implement

Runo Edit: Here's the voting slate
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Mega Froslass was undisputedly the best mega in the tier, for good reason. It was fast, powerful, and had access to Nasty Plot to really hit it home that it had no reliable switchins. It was frankly too much for the tier to handle. The combination of Nasty Plot + Boltbeam had no defensive answers, even our bulkiest of special walls in Milotic could not reliably 1v1 Mega Froslass. Mega Froslass also possesses decent variety in its game that made answering it even harder. It could run Aurora Veil to assist its teammates and especially itself in setting up, and running away with the game with its STABs alone. Destiny Bond could even be run if Froslass knew it was going down. For long-term metagame development, Froslass could stay no longer.

Polteageist was the face of HO and general offence in this format that was not a mega evolution. Frankly, we don't have to mince words and just say it's a cheese Pokemon. There were too many games where Polteageist would click Shell Smash and proceed to win the entire game from that moment, and if somehow it didn't, it took down half your team probably. You may be thinking this Pokemon is Sash reliant, so you just have to pressure it with hazards or just use priority to deal with it but both of these points were not as easy on paper. Polteageist teams easily had measures to deal with hazards, whether that's Taunt leads on HO or running Defog Conkeldurr since that deals with the few Darks in this tier, Polteageist setting up was not particularly too hard. The second point of priority/speed control, our priority kinda sucks in this tier? It has immunities to Extreme Speed and Mach Punch, we have no good Pokemon with Sucker Punch, Aqua Jet Pokemon are also uncommon, so your most common priority was Ice Shard Weavile, which unironically counters Polteageist even in the worst-case scenario. Choice Scarf Greninja was also the only common scarfer that could get the jump on Polteageist after a boost, and that's not taking into account that Polt could just have Weak Armor activated prior and it can't do anything. Teams relying on Arcanine-H as their speed control also were just outsped by the teapot and were subsequently dealt with. Everyone knows this Pokemon needed to go.

Finally, Mega Medicham. We all know what this Pokemon is capable of, and it is also another major issue that exacerbates the offensive metagame we've come to know. This Pokemon even has less switchins than Froslass, without the need to really set up. Our bulkiest physical walls like Hippowdon, Skarmory, Forretress, I can continue the list, all were 2HKOd by Close Combat and while Hippo could 1v1 Medicham, it can never really switch into it. Gliscor was dispatched with Ice Punch as well. Medicham was not as easy to use as Mega Froslass, as its speed tier was average and it's not bulky, but webs could solve its speed problems, and vs offence, sure it might struggle, but vs slower teams, whether that's bulky offence or balance, if you aren't running Mega Sableye, you just have a hard time dealing with it, as you end up playing a sack game with your Pokemon. Therefore, it has to go.


The council hopes these bans will help the tier become less offence heavy, because this tier does possess good defensive Pokemon and we've seen the potential that this tier doesn't have to be HO heaven, or hell depending on who you ask. We took other Pokemon into account before voting, such as Arcanine-H, Weavile, and Mega Gardevoir was mentioned here and there. However, drops will significantly affect Arcanine-H, as base Swampert is likely to drop and Gardevoir simply was not as threatening when Froslass could beat it and it shares the same issues as Medicham, except the latter is way harder to switch into. Excited to see where the tier goes from here, because a lot of mons are gonna enjoy these bans.
 
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The metagame is in a much better spot imo after the bans, nothing seems too dishonest now though hazard stack is still the name of the game. Due to this, I think  Defog deserves its flowers in this metagame, seeing how if you solely rely on Rapid Spin, the moment your opponent has like any defensive Ghost like Sinistcha or Skeledirge, good luck getting off the hazards. Rincewind Fan was right about Tsareena being underrated in that aspect since it can punish them but you can only go so far. In any case, let's look at our defoggers.

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So we only have 10 defoggers in the tier atm, and I'm inclined to say 90% of them are viable. Let's get the odd one out out of the way.

:emolga:
Emolga simply doesn't have the stats to hang in UU let's be honest. Zapdos typing is good but Emolga hasn't been good in like any RU above tier ever, nothing has changed.

How does a Defogger succeed in this tier?

The efficiency of Defoggers in this tier rely on how easily they are able to click Defog simply and whether they can gain momentum for their team after they click said Defog. Conkeldurr has its haters (Runo) but it's the most used Defogger for a reason. It has a Stealth Rock resistance, which all Pokemon have to deal with, I mention that because some of our defoggers are Spike immune but nothing is immune from Stealth Rock. And it has respectable bulk for its damage output with key moves like Knock Off and Drain Punch is keep itself healthy. Noivern is also a Pokemon that was pretty looked over but as we're frankly desperate for reliable hazard control, Noivern is effective at what it does. While it does have to deal with losing 25% of its HP on rocks, we dealt with this shit from gen 6 to gen 7 so sacrifices have to be made. And while Conk is slow as balls, Noivern is faster than the majority of the meta, with key tools like Taunt to stop hazards get up in the first place and also having U-turn to get out of sticky situations. These two are the most successful defoggers because they offer good traits offensively, whether its speed tier or damage output and help out defensively such as Conks resistance to Rock and Dark and Noivern is immune to Ground and both Spikes.

Altaria is the third Pokemon I want to discuss before I talk briefly about the rest of the defoggers. It's basically bulkier Noivern with cool moves like Will-o-Wisp but its passivity can easily be taken advantage of by special attackers despite its high special bulk so it's relegated to stall like Oat's team or any sort of balance build that needs its capabilities. It's not going to be a standard pick for common teams. Its mega can fog reliably as well but the structures that like base Altaria are probably not using its mega when Sableye prevents hazards in the first place.


The Rest

:decidueye:/:decidueye-hisui:
Alolan Decidueye hasn't seen much of, if any play so far. I can't say if it will ever be "good" per se but it has U-turn for pivoting and a decent defensive typing. Hisuian Decidueye is certainly better, its typing is more useful overall in the meta and also possesses U-turn, it's useful as an alternative to Conkeldurr that has recovery so it gets a yes from me.

:hawlucha:/:hawlucha-mega:
I think base Hawlucha is basically relegated to setup nonsense in the grand scheme of things, Unburden is reliable enough for it to get sweeps but Mega Hawlucha could be an interesting option. Its bulk is significantly better than base, while keeping its amazing speed tier and guess what? Has U-turn to pivot! Its STABs are also quite difficult to switch into so it provides that offensive pressure + bulk even without attack investment. Its hard to justify using your mega, especially one thats meant to be offensively inclined as your defogger but Hawlucha is the only Flying type not rocks weak so it reaps all the benefits without any drawbacks.

:talonflame:
Unfortunately for Talonflame, it's not going to see any use because that 4x rocks weakness is too much when it's easy to get them up. Its gonna basically require a spinner at the same time in order to get the best use out of it but its typing isn't as useful here as it is in other metas, it's free Arcanine bait and the bulky waters really stifle it, especially as Milo can just switch it on it and activate Marvel Scale. If boots come back, it'll be good but right now, I wouldn't use it.
 
:feraligatr-mega: Mega Feraligatr :feraligatr-mega:
So mega feraligatr is a very strong pokemon but I haven’t seen many teams with it so here are a few of mine

:gliscor::vaporeon::rotom-mow::gengar::skarmory::feraligatr-mega:
This is a hazard stack balance team, mega gatr is a great cleaner but it struggles with everything that balance also does(mainly mega gardevoir)

:aerodactyl::klefki::feraligatr-mega::alakazam::weavile::serperior:
This is the first HO team and has spikes Klefki and fast swords dance mega Feraligatr which allows it to hit much harder with the aqua jet and nuke anything slower and bulkier with dedge

:feraligatr-mega::alakazam::serperior::weavile::aerodactyl::slurpuff:
This is the second HO team and the best one imo, with SD's power you don't need that speed and for the few mons that you do you have sticky webs that are hard to remove because of serperior and the general offensive pressure of the team
 
No one really playing UU lately, a shame since I think this tier is really fun! hopefully some kind of event could bring more players in the future idk..

Anyway I thought I'd share this team since I think :beedrill-mega: is super underrated. It can be very strong in a meta with no helmet, corv and very limited priority - man this mon really needs a lot haha. Anyway this team is just some pretty skilless bulky pivot spam.

https://pokepast.es/e1cc16c39cd45709

Hope to see some more Champs UU activity soon!
 
No one really playing UU lately, a shame since I think this tier is really fun! hopefully some kind of event could bring more players in the future idk..

Anyway I thought I'd share this team since I think :beedrill-mega: is super underrated. It can be very strong in a meta with no helmet, corv and very limited priority - man this mon really needs a lot haha. Anyway this team is just some pretty skilless bulky pivot spam.

https://pokepast.es/e1cc16c39cd45709

Hope to see some more Champs UU activity soon!


Hey i like tsareena on this team however without any coverage it becomes a super inconsistent spinner. Pokemon like sinistcha, gengar even super unreliable spin blockers like chaldulure and skeledirge can spin block tsarenna and they dont even mind taking a u-turn as long as they keep hazards up.

Coverage such as knock off/triple axel can help tsarenna be able to deal lots of damage to these ghosts so that it is able to spin. Personally I've used tsarenna and found synthesis to not be that valuable so would replace that. To make it even less passive, you can also include attack investment.
 
Hey i like tsareena on this team however without any coverage it becomes a super inconsistent spinner. Pokemon like sinistcha, gengar even super unreliable spin blockers like chaldulure and skeledirge can spin block tsarenna and they dont even mind taking a u-turn as long as they keep hazards up.

Coverage such as knock off/triple axel can help tsarenna be able to deal lots of damage to these ghosts so that it is able to spin. Personally I've used tsarenna and found synthesis to not be that valuable so would replace that. To make it even less passive, you can also include attack investment.
Yep I agree I was actually using knock over trop kick then I lost to mega Gyara and crashed out. I do think knock or coverage is a lot more valuable realistically, but a lot of the time I found myself just u turning out on ghosts to bring in a breaker anyway and relying on taunt to stop rocks or spinning later. I just like playing aggro though its def not the optimal set.
 
Kinda wondering but was Salt Cure's nerf really so bad as to it making Garg almost completely unviable even down here? Just curious that's all.
 
Kinda wondering but was Salt Cure's nerf really so bad as to it making Garg almost completely unviable even down here? Just curious that's all.

Yeah Garg has no place in this metagame atm. Even if Salt Cure wasn't nerfed, tera was hard carrying this guy and Mono Rock typing just isn't good enough when some of the best pokemon in the tier just beat you type wise. Wholly outclassed by Rhyperior whose Rock resistance actually makes it a solid Arcanine-H switchin while Garg is not.
 
August 1st and we have some new drops from OU:

Barbaracle moved from OU to UU
Barbaracle-Mega moved from OU to UU
Dragalge moved from OU to UU
Eelektross moved from OU to UU
Eelektross-Mega moved from OU to UU
Falinks moved from OU to UU
Falinks-Mega moved from OU to UU
Malamar moved from OU to UU
Malamar-Mega moved from OU to UU
Mawile moved from OU to UU
Metagross moved from OU to UU
Musharna moved from OU to UU
Pyroar moved from OU to UU
Pyroar-Mega moved from OU to UU
Qwilfish moved from OU to UU
Raichu-Mega-X moved from OU to UU
Sceptile moved from OU to UU
Sceptile-Mega moved from OU to UU
Scolipede moved from OU to UU
Scolipede-Mega moved from OU to UU
Scrafty moved from OU to UU
Scrafty-Mega moved from OU to UU
Staraptor moved from OU to UU
Vileplume moved from OU to UU

Some of these are great meta additions, others are going to be useless, and some are broken and probably going to get banned before PL takes off. Keep an eye out for that!
 
August 1st and we have some new drops from OU:

Barbaracle moved from OU to UU
Barbaracle-Mega moved from OU to UU
Dragalge moved from OU to UU
Eelektross moved from OU to UU
Eelektross-Mega moved from OU to UU
Falinks moved from OU to UU
Falinks-Mega moved from OU to UU
Malamar moved from OU to UU
Malamar-Mega moved from OU to UU
Mawile moved from OU to UU
Metagross moved from OU to UU
Musharna moved from OU to UU
Pyroar moved from OU to UU
Pyroar-Mega moved from OU to UU
Qwilfish moved from OU to UU
Raichu-Mega-X moved from OU to UU
Sceptile moved from OU to UU
Sceptile-Mega moved from OU to UU
Scolipede moved from OU to UU
Scolipede-Mega moved from OU to UU
Scrafty moved from OU to UU
Scrafty-Mega moved from OU to UU
Staraptor moved from OU to UU
Vileplume moved from OU to UU

Some of these are great meta additions, others are going to be useless, and some are broken and probably going to get banned before PL takes off. Keep an eye out for that!
Hi, some users were confused about how shifts worked this month. These are considered DLC quick-drops not hard shifts which is why mons such as Swampert or Mega Mawile did not drop. 3-Month tiering is also used for mons in Reg M-A, which is why Hippowdon and Toxapex did not rise and drop respectively. Actual shifts should happen next month according to dhelmise.
 
Drought and Mega Barbaracle are banned from Champions UU. dhelmise to implement
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Will edit in reasoning later but here is the cliff notes:

:torkoal: Both setters are equally strong, way too many strong abusers, and Heat Rock is too insignificant of a nerf to balance the playstyle. Drought ban is the safest path forward.

:Barbaracle-Mega: Hits way too hard immediately to overwhelm most non-Slowbro/Hippowdon walls. And for those two all it needs is a Shell Smash turn to invalidate them as checks. Speed control and priority options are much too mediocre as well for this to be balanced out on the offensive side.

Should have about a week before week 1 of CHAMPL, have fun building.
 
:torkoal: Both setters are equally strong, way too many strong abusers, and Heat Rock is too insignificant of a nerf to balance the playstyle. Drought ban is the safest path forward.
Bit crazy at first but totally makes sense. Mega houndoom, and mega pyroar are both so damn strong in the sun but that's not even the best part. Venusaur was,in my opinion the best setup mon for a while. Not a single mon switch into its three attacks. Even h-goodra gets 2hko after a growth. Not enough bulky fire resists, and no gking/chomp that ou has.
 
What do we think about Eelektross and Raichu X? Personally I doubt Raichu will have much of a meta presence with so many good Ground-types in the meta (Gliscor in particular is a bit of a nightmare matchup), though Volt Tackle and Rising Voltage both hit incredibly hard outside of that (OHKOing bulky Bold Milotic with a physical Attack is certainly no small feat). Eelektross on the other hand is much more difficult to switch into with its coverage options, but I feel like its lackluster Speed tier holds it back significantly. Electric types in general don't seem to be in an especially good spot right now, and I'm not sure these two will really change that.

Side note, how does Eelektross not get Leech Life? I mean, it's literally got a lamprey's mouth...
 
What do we think about Eelektross and Raichu X? Personally I doubt Raichu will have much of a meta presence with so many good Ground-types in the meta (Gliscor in particular is a bit of a nightmare matchup), though Volt Tackle and Rising Voltage both hit incredibly hard outside of that (OHKOing bulky Bold Milotic with a physical Attack is certainly no small feat). Eelektross on the other hand is much more difficult to switch into with its coverage options, but I feel like its lackluster Speed tier holds it back significantly. Electric types in general don't seem to be in an especially good spot right now, and I'm not sure these two will really change that.

Side note, how does Eelektross not get Leech Life? I mean, it's literally got a lamprey's mouth...

I think I'll have to disagree with you saying Electric types are in a rough spot. I think specific electrics are in a wonderful position in this metagame at the moment thanks to them actually applying pressure on common bulky waters. Heliolisk and Rotom-Mow can succeed due to their ability to deal with Grounds and Mega Eelektross will follow in their footsteps. It's quite hard for balance to deal with but vs offence, it doesn't seem to stand out compared to faster threats that can out damage it easily like Mega Gardevoir for example.

Regarding Raichu X, I wouldn't write it off completely yet, it's definitely going to pull a Tapu Koko and is forced to run special sets to be quite effective, except Koko never got Rising Voltage. Raichu's speed tier also isn't that bad but it's not blinding fast but for its offensive potential, its bulk is pretty serviceable so it's not gonna die instantly. Mixed could be better than fully spatk, since Volt Tackle is a massive nuke, but recoil hurts when your max HP is low asf and on special sets, you have boosting.
 
:eelektross_mega: An Electric Type with the ability to snowball in a metagame where two of the top Pokemon are weak to Electric? Yes please! Mega Eelektross enjoys a great spread into the metagame, capable of threatening the many Water Types around here and flipping the script on almost every Ground Type in the tier by switching into them and threatening them with Grass Knot (Gliscor the exception). Mega Eelektross' decent bulk and lack of weakness is going to play very well into balance, forcing non-boosted offensive Pokemon out if they don't want to feed the eel. Their mediocre Speed and lack of resistances though means playing into offense is going to be a bother for it. I see Mega Eelektross with a real niche here, perhaps becoming the premier Electric Type.

:falinks_mega: The good news is that Mega Falinks' new stat spread allows it to flex a Swords Dance set, granting it mid-game wallbreaking potential it did not have before. Punishing Defog from Hisuian Decidueye and Conkeldurr is quite nice. Mega Falinks still runs into the same old issues it did before. Mono Fighting is a horrible sole offensive Type and leaves Falinks wanting for all of its coverage that it just can't quite fit on. Even at +1, Mega Falinks Special Bulk is horrid and leaves it prone to being revenge killed. The tier is also home to Kommo-o, who might be slower but is much bulkier and has less coverage issues with Dragon STAB to compliment its Fighting STAB. Mega Hawlucha also exists in the same tier and is mediocre, but still better than Mega Falinks. It does not seem like this tier will be the home for the fan-favorite Fighting Type.

:pyroar_mega: Mega Pyroar does one thing. It's the naturally fastest Fire Type in the tier and clicks big Fire Type moves. Non-bulky resistances get chunked by the sheer power of Fire Blast, or even Overheat. Its coverage is unfortunately very lacking leaving it to cripple its switch-ins with Will-O-Wisp, but it is pretty good at that. Unless your opponent is on really low HP, Hyper Voice is seldom ever going to be a button you want to press unless your primary Fire STAB is Flamethrower for consistency. That's something Mega Chandelure can hold over it, but it's also nowhere near as fast as Mega Pyroar. I think Mega Pyroar will find a solid spot in the metagame, being able to put in enough work against its checks and counters.

:raichu_mega_x: Some form of Special Attack investment is a necessity on Mega Raichu X unless you're otherwise comfortable being walled by the Grounds of the tier. Being an Electric Type is quite nice and you threaten to OHKO the standard Milotic off of Rising Voltage alone. Comparisons between it and Mega Eelektross are easy to draw, maybe Mega Raichu X proving itself superior? It's faster, has Nasty Plot, enjoys the same coverage + Surf and has stronger immediate Electric STAB. It doesn't have the same immunity to Ground and attack-to-boost though. I expect great things from either or, whichever becomes the primary or if they both find a life for themselves.
 
oh yeah this guy :sceptile_mega:

:sceptile_mega: Earth Power's pretty nice for OHKOing Hisuian Arcanine and Gengar without trying to whiff Focus Miss. With the newly added Mega Electrics sure to make a splash, Lightning Rod may come in clutch more often than not. Unfortunate that it is walled by Mega Altaria and probably can't do anything about it, but what are you gonna do. I don't have any strong opinions on this fellow yet, I feel like he's pretty Potential Mon right now aside from the fact that he should not have been added to Pokken and makes me angry because of how blatantly overpowered he is haha
 
Malamar @ Malamarite
Ability: Contrary
Level: 50
EVs: 32 Atk / 1 Def / 1 SpD / 32 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Superpower
- Zen Headbutt

:malamar_mega: Might be fire? Mega Malamar looks like another balance breaker that flexes its well-rounded stat spread. Taunt shuts down would-be road blocks in Iron Defense Skarmory, Hippowdon and its Whirlwind and even hits Kommo-o before it can get off a Clangorous Soul thanks to its higher Speed. At +1 Defense, Mega Malamar can survive Hisuian Arcanine's Head Smash, boosted by Life Orb. Its massive Special Defense lets it eat even super effective special hits like Gengar's Dazzling Gleam. Mega Altaria does unfortunately OHKO you through your Defense buff with Double-Edge, but you can hit it with a Taunt to force it to Dragon Dance and Roost another time. Maybe pairing this thing up with Vaporeon for Wish passing and Flip Turning to have an easier time getting onto the battlefield. Is there anything I missed?
 
It is, but there is no way in hell we would ban it lol. The moves that get banned are ones that enable broken or uncompetitive strategies like Shed Tail or OHKO moves, not moves that are just really strong attacks. (The only move that was ever banned for being too strong was Last Respects, which could reach absurd levels of power the later in the game you used it.) Besides, there are plenty of other moves that are better at breaking Ground-types.

While we're at it, Mega Beedrill isn't anywhere close to broken either. Just about any Pokémon with a priority move can take it out before it does anything, and we even have Mega Aerodactyl in the tier which is faster than it and one-shots it with Dual Wingbeat. It's usable, but far from game-breaking.
 
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I had a dream that Wood Hammer and Mega Beedrill were banned from Champions UU. Wood Hammer's reason for being banned was "being too good at breaking Ground-types", and I think Mega Beedrill's reason for being banned was "it was too fast for the meta".

The funny thing is I don't even play Champions at all. Is Wood Hammer even in Champions?
0 Atk Snover Wood Hammer vs. 32 HP / 32+ Def Gliscor: 300-352 (200 - 234.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

you might be onto something actually I think we need to get rid of it
 
Hey everyone! Council is doing some emergency tiering and without further ado...


:kings-rock:
King's Rock is quickbanned from Champions UU via majority council vote! Tagging dhelmise or Marty to implement.

King's Rock in the modern day is considered to be an uncompetitive item in 6v6 Singles simply due to the fact that Pokemon that utilise Beat Up like Weavile, and Cloyster in previous generations could just permaflinch the opponents and you can't really do much about it. We've already seen King's Rock affect the tour scene for this metagame (Replay) and the council is not particularly fond of keeping it. So best to just ban it.

In other news, we will be keeping an eye on Feraligatr-Mega at the moment in terms of controversial Pokemon, so let us know your thoughts about it if you have any.
 
In other news, we will be keeping an eye on Feraligatr-Mega at the moment in terms of controversial Pokemon, so let us know your thoughts about it if you have any.
translating... Mega Feraligatr threatens tier king Hisuian Arcanine if it stays in action must be taken

I found it weird this fellow was sitting in B Tier even after the VR update, I figured it'd be one of the things to be quickbanned off of sheer power but ig not
so what's this chap up to? Double Dance shenanigans?
 
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